Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Moses?
WTF?
The guy has shown zero promise.
I would pencil him in as a backup indefinitely.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1100217]Patriots cap figure for their LT is $2.7M while ours is......... $10.9M against the cap.


Patriots cap figure for their RT(Vollmer) is $4.1M while ours (Polumbus) is $2.6M.



We are spending $13.5M against the cap in two tackles while the Patriots are spending $6.8M.


Throwing more money into the tackle positions isn't the answer. Drafting better is.[/quote]

Williams isn't playing anywhere near his contract/cap price, and won't command same at time of his next deal. But you're right, we're overpaying badly right now at both tackle positions. What you highlight shows why the Patriots are winners.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1100245]Moses?
WTF?
The guy has shown zero promise.
I would pencil him in as a backup indefinitely.[/quote]

Yeah he couldn't beat out Polumbus or Compton. Too early to give up on him but no way is he penciled in as the starting rt.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100192]LT Williams
LG Iupati
C Licht
RG Luvall
RT Moses

[B]Could Luvall move to the right side?[/B][/quote]

I'd prefer that he move back to Cleveland. He was owned by a slow fat guy in the Giants game.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100250]Williams isn't playing anywhere near his contract/cap price, and won't command same at time of his next deal. But you're right, we're overpaying badly right now at both tackle positions. What you highlight shows why the Patriots are winners.[/quote]

Williams is a fine LT who is playing hurt right now. He would make a ton of money as a FA. He is not overpaid. You're not going to solve our OL problems by dumping one of our best players.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1100030]We're gonna get killed.

The way I feel is that the Redskins have allowed 53 sacks so far this season. A ridiculous number. No one has really earned a starting spot, save T. Williams but he's been half-assing it because of injury (not his fault, really).

The Skins really need to clean house, especially with Chester and Polumbus. Luvao and Lich I feel are bubble players who'll probably be back next year because we can't ACTUALLY clean house on the starting line completely... Continue to develop Long, Moses and Compton. None of whom should be starting next season unless they make some enormous strides during off-season and pre-season next year. But... I can understand if they do because we can't continue to hold everyone back.

I meant Moses or Compton. They both seem merely average so far, so I hope they have a upside and can be developed.

Long I'm still iffy about because if he can't beat out Chester for starting these last couple of games, that feels somewhat like a red flag because Chester flat out sucks.[/quote]

Agree with 99% of what you're saying.

The sack number can be spun different ways depending on who ya like.

Griffin has been sacked 10% of total dropbacks. Mccoy and Cousins sacked 4% of total dropbacks. (Stat courtesy of The Drive on espn 980)

Unless there is a vast locker room conspiracy to not block for Griffin, some of it is on the qb.

I really like the way Licht has played this year. 77 was not playing good earlier this year, he still isn't good but he has improved from the beginning of the year.

Chester and polumbus are out based on the cap and performance.

Compton hasn't been terrible, especially in the run (not exactly a ringing endorsement here) but geez when he whiffs, he kills our qb.

Hope Trent can get healthy.

Really like drafting Long, I wish we could see him.

Jury still out on Moses. I took the SF game as a ray of hope because he didn't embarrass himself. The bar has sunk that low.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1100118]Well, I do agree with Cooley on the issues of the RBs & TEs blocking. I would also add in the wide receivers. I also agree in terms of the quarterbacks holding onto the ball too long.

But, I don't agree that the offensive line is solid. It needs a lot of work.[/quote]

Listen about everyday. Never heard him say the line was good, just that they are getting a disproportionate amount of the blame.

Cooley blamed 6 of the 7 sacks from the NY game on Griffin.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Any indication Moses could move to guard?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Every spot other than LT should be listed as open for competition.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1100245]Moses?
WTF?
The guy has shown zero promise.
I would pencil him in as a backup indefinitely.[/quote]

[quote=skinsfan69;1100259]Yeah he couldn't beat out Polumbus or Compton. Too early to give up on him but no way is he penciled in as the starting rt.[/quote]

You can't [I]expect[/I] a 3rd round rookie to win a starting job in his first season. It's just not reasonable. Even some high-first round linemen have to sit a while before they start. I think Moses has been solid enough in limited action that as long as he recovers in time, he can compete for the job. Nobody's penciling him in as the starter. That would be foolish... as foolish as writing him off as a career backup at this point.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=SirLK26;1100278]You can't [I]expect[/I] a 3rd round rookie to win a starting job in his first season. It's just not reasonable. Even some high-first round linemen have to sit a while before they start. I think Moses has been solid enough in limited action that as long as he recovers in time, he can compete for the job. Nobody's penciling him in as the starter. That would be foolish... as foolish as writing him off as a career backup at this point.[/quote]

I totally agree, O-lineman take the longest to develop, but have the longest careers. He was our first pick that year, but he was a 3rd rounder. Generally speaking the 1st rounders should be stars, the 2nd rounders are 1st year starters. Beyond that you can not look at those guys to be huge game changing players.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1100270]Williams is a fine LT who is playing hurt right now. He would make a ton of money as a FA. He is not overpaid. You're not going to solve our OL problems by dumping one of our best players.[/quote]


I don't know if Williams is deserving of making more than any O-lineman in the NFL. Next year he will cost the Skins just short of $14 million against a $140
total Cap. It is the last year of that contract, so there has to be a push to restructure it.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1100296]I don't know if Williams is deserving of making more than any O-lineman in the NFL. Next year he will cost the Skins just short of $14 million against a $140
total Cap. It is the last year of that contract, so there has to be a push to restructure it.[/quote]Not getting Williams locked in, before his contract runs out, would be a total loser move.

He got hurt. Unlike Griffin, Williams has proven he can come back and play his best.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Are you serious? Nobody on that offensive line would be starting for another team except for Trent Williams.....if Spencer Long has been sitting then it's for a good reason.....he and Moses are developmental prospects.....the Redskins need a big offensive line......maybe they can sign Incognito in free agency and trade back in the first round and pick a few guards in the early rounds of the draft.....then with our own second round pick draft a safety....

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Since we have QBs that are developing in our roster (Cousins/RG3) or may have a rookie QB next year, we have to improve our line through free agency and the draft.

People forget that a good line can help overcome an average QB (Sanchez with the Jets) or help a young QB develop without asking him to do much (Wilson's first two years in Seattle).

I think all of our QBs have lost faith in the offensive line and are playing scare. It happened to RG3 last season, it happened to Cousins a few games into this season, and I'm sure it has happened to McCoy after he got his neck messed up. This doesn't mean that the fault likes solely within the line, but I just see this mistrust in the line by all of our QBs.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

fix it how tho through free agency or the draft?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=tommyhawk13;1100354]fix it how tho through free agency or the draft?[/quote]

Both. You can't just depend on free agency or the draft. Although, we need better talent evaluators since we've missed on a number of o-line players in the draft.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1100361]Both. You can't just depend on free agency or the draft. Although, we need better talent evaluators since we've missed on a number of o-line players in the draft.[/quote]


far as free agency goes who really would wanna come here tho ?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Seems like a pretty good analysis of the problems with the O-Line

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2302638-breaking-down-washington-redskins-protection-issues]Breaking Down Washington Redskins' Protection Issues | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1100297]Not getting Williams locked in, before his contract runs out, would be a total loser move.

He got hurt. Unlike Griffin, Williams has proven he can come back and play his best.[/quote]

resigning trent is a must happen.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1100378]Seems like a pretty good analysis of the problems with the O-Line

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2302638-breaking-down-washington-redskins-protection-issues]Breaking Down Washington Redskins' Protection Issues | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

Good article, the guards have been terrible this year. We need a new OLine coach because he is not preparing our players and not developing our draft picks.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Let me preface my post by saying I do believe we need to improve the line. A Iupati prototype as the model to follow.

That being said, upgrading the defensive line would have the most immediate, dramatic impact on both sides of the ball.

Being able to get pressure on the opposing QB with 4 rushers is one of the biggest factors in the game of football at any level.

Pressure with 4 limits the time the QB has to make decisions and can mask weaknesses in our secondary. Pressure from the the D line can make good corners (Richard Sherman) appear better than they are because those quick decisions are being thrown into coverages that are full strength.

Getting pressure with four would ease up the pressure on Hall, Breeland, and Amerson and we wouldn't have to bring an all pro caliber safety to fix our deep secondary. Breeland might be a pro bowler this year if we had a pass rush.

Having a killer D line would also impact the offense significantly.

The single biggest impact should be keeping the opposing defense off balance. Playing a close game or playing ahead late in the 3rd quarter and 4th quarter is totally different than playing from behind.

If you want to help the offensive line, don't put them in positions where the defense can pin their ears back and play one dimensionally. We have been playing from behind almost every game. When the defense has to play run and pass our o line has an advantage.

An improved defensive line should improve our time of possession which makes a huge difference in the pass rush in the 4th quarter. (An improvement in the O line should do the same.)

We are currently running a west coast style offense with a lot of short passing. In theory, this shouldn't require 6 second protections.

Both need to be improved. A huge upgrade on the defensive side would have the most dramatic, immediate impact though.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

I agree that D-line is more important. Our o-line while not very good a bottom third imo a solid d-line can have a more significant improvement on our offense than an improved o-line has on the d. I am frustrated because I feel like we have invested heavily on the d line side but have not seen results. Some of that is injuries, some coaching, but perhaps we have the wrong pieces to the puzzle.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Fixing the offensive line would have one very, very important benefit --- significantly reducing the chance your quarterback gets killed on any given Sunday. Ask Colt McCoy about how important offensive line protection is. The idea of having a $10.000,000 QB playing behind a 50 cent offensive line is rather silly.

It may be true that there is more impact with a better D Line. But you just cant have your QB at risk of getting killed every week.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Two names, Iupati and Suh. It would be crazy if that happened but they would solve a lot of issues.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1101028]Two names, Iupati and Suh. It would be crazy if that happened but they would solve a lot of issues.[/quote]

I like them both and would be happy with them as long as it's a smart contract and their teams don't retain them.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100407]Good article, the guards have been terrible this year. We need a new OLine coach because he is not preparing our players and not developing our draft picks.[/quote]

or we need a new front office that drafts / signs good players -

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Just a note about patience developing OL, remember Chad Rinehardt? He's been solid for the Chargers.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

So how long do we wait for Polumbus?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1101065]So how long do we wait for Polumbus?[/quote]

F Polumbus!! I'm talking, Long, Moses, LeRibeus.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1101068]F Polumbus!! I'm talking, Long, [B]Moses[/B], LeRibeus.[/quote]

Moses has a Lisfranc. There's a good chance we won't see him on the field for two years.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1101092]Moses has a Lisfranc. There's a good chance we won't see him on the field for two years.[/quote]

He's not a S or RB, he'll be fine.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

2 years would be a stretch. Although being 100% by camp may not be. Either way we have to look at upgrading RT.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1101028]Two names, Iupati and Suh. It would be crazy if that happened but they would solve a lot of issues.[/quote]


NY is also in the Shu sweepstakes .

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1101065]So how long do we wait for Polumbus?[/quote]

Hopefully we don't. That dude has been abysmal for at least a couple of years now.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

We moved on from Polumbus earlier in the year. No worries there.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

LeRibeus ???? Have you counted how many times he got knocked straight back onto his arse this year? He is worse than Polumbus (although I understand that is almost impossible to comprehend).

How about spending high draft picks on real quality athletes who are O-linemen rather than trying to create gold out of a bunch of fourth round dregs?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1101130]LeRibeus ???? Have you counted how many times he got knocked straight back onto his arse this year? He is worse than Polumbus (although I understand that is almost impossible to comprehend).

How about spending high draft picks on real quality athletes who are O-linemen rather than trying to create gold out of a bunch of fourth round dregs?[/quote]

Leribust polumbus Compton are all failures of the scout and coaching staffs.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Idk.. Compton has been doing better. He looked better against the Eagles as well. I think it's a little early to throw him out with less than a season of real game time experience.

I think the middle of our O-Line needs more work than anything. I see more guards getting pushed to RG3 face. Chester is getting worse every year and Lav was a terrible pickup.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1101134]Leribust polumbus Compton are all failures of the scout and coaching staffs.[/quote]

Is the jury still out on Moses and Long? I know Moses got injured but he wasn't looking too great either and Long couldn't even beat out Chester throughout the season.

Still have hope for Moses though.