Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Daseal:

As you know, I think Rod Gardner is a waste of skin. But you are absolutely right; he does work hard and is a dedicated player at practice and he sets only a positive work example for the rest of the team. In that sense, he is indeed a "Joe Gibbs player".

The problem with Gardner is what happens on Sunday - or Saturday or Monday depending on the schedule-makers. All of his work pays very low rate dividends. Is that because he loses focus? Is he ADHD and starts thinking about pretty blue bunny rabbits as the snap count is underway? Is this as good as his hands are ever gonna get and they only got this good because he works so hard?

I don't know because I don't read minds. But unless his "contract year" can motivate him to levels waaay beyond anything we've ever seen from him, I think he's a waste of a roster spot.

And remember, even if he has a great year and the Skins find a way to pay him what he wants as a free agent, what is to say that he will not revert to his "50/50 Form" immediately after he cashes his fat signing bonus check. If "money" and "contract year" are what it takes to motivate him, do you really want him on a long term deal? (It is not a good thing to rely on people who are only motivated by money. The British learned that with their mercenaries during the Revolutionary War!) And you need a long term deal to spread out the BIG signing bonus Gardner will demand if he has an All-Pro season in 2005.

I have a suspicion that this soap opera will not have a really happy ending...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

If you could somehow combine Gardner's work ethic with McCants's natural skills you'd have one heck of a WR.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

What stinks about Gardner is he catches the nutty circus catch and drops the gimme balls. I really haven't seen a WR with a Redskins Jersey make as remarkable catches as he does, and then he drops one that my 3 year old daughter would have snatched from the air. It is so frustrating with that guy. He will have a game like 1st Dallas game last year and then disappear the rest of the season. Other thing is our team has had so many different coaches, QB's, coordinators that the entire WR corps has had no consistency. HAte to say it but I don't think that half of the issues are Gardener's doing.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Agreed Tafkas... Why is Gibbs so against that kid??? McCants I thought was a great redzone threat... Maybe McCants did what Patrick did...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Because he didn't want to play special teams, Redskinsjunkie.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Understood, but you have to admit that Mccants is a better option than Thrash at this point in his career as a WR. I know Thrash plays ST but I think that after posting 6 TD a year ago and the o was throwing up less than 18 points a game you would try just about anything... I just think that MCcants would have been a nice option in the redzone and maybe someone besides Cooley would have taken some heat off Ramsey.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

You'd think. You'd also think he'd pull Brunell. He's a bit too stubborn. I also think McCants would have been a great option. You see us march up the field for like one series McCants was in and Ramsey hit him 3-4 times in a row for good gains?

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Yep, then he pulls the cord on him... And what the heck did Taylor Jacobs ever do??? How the hell did he get in the good graces over MCCants? I really do think he has a lot of upside... Got to use him though. Maybe they will this year considering the other receivers (Moss, Patten) are SMALL...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Oh yeah, and Brunell was BRUTAL. Absolutley the worse signing of the Danny's era. Worse than even, dare I say, GEORGE. At least George beat the Rams in St Louis...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Well, don't look now - but Danny was against Brunell. But it was Gibbs boy!

Jacobs is potentially the best receiver on our team. I wish he were starting. He's a strong receiver, and DBs say nothing but great things about him. Let's see him on something besides WR screens, reverses, etc.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

I am just saying he really hasn't done much yet, but like you said, how many reverses and bubble screens can you run in one game???

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

He hasn't. No one can dispute that - I just want someone to give him a chance. I think he could end up being the biggest steal the Redskins ever got!

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

I heard Gibbs on Mike and Mike and if I remember correctly Gibbs said that he was happy with the current WR corp we have and went on to point out that the coaching staff "loves" Jacobs.

I could see Jacobs getting a lot of playing time this year. Hopefully he'll have a breakout year.

Lets also remember that Jacobs has good size (6'0) and speed, runs great routes, and has decent hands. It's only his 3rd year, and this is his best opportunity to show everyone what he's all about. I'll be paying close attention to Jacobs this year.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

I concur. Jacobs has a great opportunity to make a name for himself this year; let's hope he makes the most of it.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I heard Gibbs on Mike and Mike and if I remember correctly Gibbs said that he was happy with the current WR corp we have and went on to point out that the coaching staff "loves" Jacobs.

I could see Jacobs getting a lot of playing time this year. Hopefully he'll have a breakout year.

Lets also remember that Jacobs has good size (6'0) and speed, runs great routes, and has decent hands. It's only his 3rd year, and this is his best opportunity to show everyone what he's all about. I'll be paying close attention to Jacobs this year.[/QUOTE]

I hope he does make the most out of it... I just think that MCCants showed a lot of promise even in the crazy O Spurrier ran and he knows how to find creases in the defense and he poses match up problems with the nickel backs...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

I'd like to see Jacobs/McCants as #1 and Patten/Moss as #2.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I'd like to see Jacobs/McCants as #1 and Patten/Moss as #2.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I would love to see them go 4 wide and spread out the D to create more holes for Portis too. If they went Jacobs, McCants, Moss and Cooley in the seams??? That might be a nice little package right there...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Sounds a little Spurrier-esque. It cuts down on the protection for Ramsey.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

This is just what I think, but this could be our WR corp.

Moss, Patten, Gardner (unless we trade him), Jacobs, McCants.

I would love to see Jacobs flourish as a great slot receiver.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

So now after passing up THE BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT we will have to spend another year watching Rod Lardner drop balls and pout on the sidelines or watch him give us one decent year and then lose him to free agency with no compensation, leaving us with the EXTREMELY AVERAGE duo of David Patten and Santana Moss. Boy, that decision not to draft Mike Williams is already paying dividends.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Plenty of teams have prospered without a true #1 receiver.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Plenty of teams have prospered without a true #1 receiver.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. New England Patriots anyone?

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=formerskinzfan]So now after passing up THE BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT we will have to spend another year watching Rod Lardner drop balls and pout on the sidelines or watch him give us one decent year and then lose him to free agency with no compensation, leaving us with the EXTREMELY AVERAGE duo of David Patten and Santana Moss. Boy, that decision not to draft Mike Williams is already paying dividends.[/QUOTE]

Dude, don't be so optimistic. :Smoker:

Before you judge anything, why don't you wait until the games are played. Thats when we find out how good our WR's are.

Paying dividends? :Smoker:

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Sounds a little Spurrier-esque. It cuts down on the protection for Ramsey.[/QUOTE]
No way guy! With all of the bubble screens ramsey will be fine behind our line...

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Dude, don't be so optimistic. :Smoker:

Before you judge anything, why don't you wait until the games are played. Thats when we find out how good our WR's are.

Paying dividends? :Smoker:[/QUOTE]

I understand you won't know until the play, but it would be good to be a little proactive instead of reactive. Don't get me wrong, I love Ramsey, but he ain't Brady whoever is comparing our WR corps to New England has to look at the entire ball of wax. They are playing a completely different offesive scheme then what Gibbs runs.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Redskins_P, exactly what the HELL are you thinking talking about games that haven't even been played yet?

And Ramsey blows.:Smoker:

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=formerskinzfan]So now after passing up THE BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT we will have to spend another year watching Rod Lardner drop balls and pout on the sidelines or watch him give us one decent year and then lose him to free agency with no compensation, leaving us with the EXTREMELY AVERAGE duo of David Patten and Santana Moss. Boy, that decision not to draft Mike Williams is already paying dividends.[/QUOTE]

Really? How many catches did Williams make this year? Oh that's right...he didn't play!

How many catches has Williams made in the NFL? Oh that's right, he hasn't played in the NFL yet. So pointless to say some guy is the "best receiver" when they haven't proved a darn thing yet.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=formerskinzfan]So now after passing up THE BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT we will have to spend another year watching Rod Lardner drop balls and pout on the sidelines or watch him give us one decent year and then lose him to free agency with no compensation, leaving us with the EXTREMELY AVERAGE duo of David Patten and Santana Moss. Boy, that decision not to draft Mike Williams is already paying dividends.[/QUOTE]

I think Patten gets a bad rap because it seems to be the popular thing to say that Tom Brady has done so much with no wide receivers. But Patten, as part of a committe of receivers, has put up some pretty decent numbers and maybe he and the other Patriots' receivers should get some more recognition for what NE has accomplished these past few years.

As for Mike Williams being the BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT, it's possible but interesting to note that he apparently wasn't considered good enough to be the first (or even second) WR taken in the draft

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think Patten gets a bad rap because it seems to be the popular thing to say that Tom Brady has done so much with no wide receivers. But Patten, as part of a committe of receivers, has put up some pretty decent numbers and maybe he and the other Patriots' receivers should get some more recognition for what NE has accomplished these past few years.

As for Mike Williams being the BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT, it's possible but interesting to note that he apparently wasn't considered good enough to be the first (or even second) WR taken in the draft[/QUOTE]

M. Williams was by far more productive than either of the 2 receivers taken before him. No he didn't play last year, but the 2 years he played he had 30 TDs. 2 years. Braylon Edwards broke the Michigan record with 39 in 4 years. M. Williams dropped because of his combine times in the 40 and because he didn't play last year, but he will be better than both of those 2 wide outs. I am so glad that we did not move up to get Edwards. Also Williamson fit a need.

Also Kevin Dyson was chosen 5 slots ahead of Randy Moss... Is Dyson is WAY better than R. MOSS right???

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=RedskinsJunkie]I understand you won't know until the play, but it would be good to be a little proactive instead of reactive. Don't get me wrong, I love Ramsey, but he ain't Brady whoever is comparing our WR corps to New England has to look at the entire ball of wax. They are playing a completely different offesive scheme then what Gibbs runs.[/QUOTE]


I don't think anyone is comparing our WR's to New Englands. What I did was point out that New England doesn't have a true #1 receiver, and look how successful they've been.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

personall,i would have taken mark clayton and braylon edwards before williams.the more you looked at them,the less impressive williams looked.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=BIGREDSKINFAN63]personall,i would have taken mark clayton and braylon edwards before williams.the more you looked at them,the less impressive williams looked.[/QUOTE]

Holy cow, give me some of what you are smoking... The Skins could not have taken Clayton because he is the same as every other WR we have on the roster (Especially Patten and Moss) and Edwards will be one of the biggest busts ever in the NFL. No Michigan WR has ever panned out. Only one to have a decent career has been Toomer. By the time it is over Edwards won't even have Toomer numbers.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=RedskinsJunkie]Holy cow, give me some of what you are smoking... The Skins could not have taken Clayton because he is the same as every other WR we have on the roster (Especially Patten and Moss) and Edwards will be one of the biggest busts ever in the NFL. No Michigan WR has ever panned out. Only one to have a decent career has been Toomer. By the time it is over Edwards won't even have Toomer numbers.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what kind of pro Edwards will be, but I don't think he's an automatic bust because he came from Michigan. By the same logic, we shouldn't have played Doug Williams in the Super Bowl because no black quarterback had ever won it. Each player has his own strengths, and when they are catered to, the player has a chance of success.

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]I don't know what kind of pro Edwards will be, but I don't think he's an automatic bust because he came from Michigan. By the same logic, we shouldn't have played Doug Williams in the Super Bowl because no black quarterback had ever won it. Each player has his own strengths, and when they are catered to, the player has a chance of success.[/QUOTE]

You can't compare different types of receivers and their sizes or where they played school to them being black or white. They are men... equal men. What I am saying is that The guy before me was saying that both of those players listed would be better than Mike Williams, and everyone seems to forget that just because M. Williams was out of school for a year he isn't that good. He would have crushed Edwards stats if he played just 3 years....

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

Personally, I don't see what Michael Williams could bring that Darnarien McCants cannot. We need to get away from the big splashy players, not go out and spend millions for a name that will end up costing us in the sort of role players that really count. Take a cue from the Pats. It's about the team, not individual talent.

Beyond that, Williams isn't the right kind of receiver for us anyway. You want speed to stretch out the defense. The long threat opens up the running game and vice versa. If we were going to spend big money on a marquee reciever, we'd be better off going for blazing speed--something which Williams has in short supply. Santana Moss is the right sort of reciever in that regard, and McCants is a perfectly acceptable possession and red zone specialist. Let's build a solid, consistent team around the talent we have instead of sacrificing everything for the big name player.

--Phinehas

Re: Gibbs To Meet With Gardner Today
 

[QUOTE=Phinehas]Personally, I don't see what Michael Williams could bring that Darnarien McCants cannot. We need to get away from the big splashy players, not go out and spend millions for a name that will end up costing us in the sort of role players that really count. Take a cue from the Pats. It's about the team, not individual talent.

Beyond that, Williams isn't the right kind of receiver for us anyway. You want speed to stretch out the defense. The long threat opens up the running game and vice versa. If we were going to spend big money on a marquee reciever, we'd be better off going for blazing speed--something which Williams has in short supply. Santana Moss is the right sort of reciever in that regard, and McCants is a perfectly acceptable possession and red zone specialist. Let's build a solid, consistent team around the talent we have instead of sacrificing everything for the big name player.

--Phinehas[/QUOTE]

I love McCants, but Gibbs isn't that big on him. Santana will give you 9-13 games a year and he is a solid WR. I am ok with staying away from splashy signings but if you have a 9th pick in the draft, he is going to command less money than the 8th pick and more than the 10th. Everyone loves to talk about the Pats and teamwork and I love that, but they have a completely different scheme of offense and they have a much better QB to spread the ball around effectively. You can not build a WR core on speed alone. Yes they stretch the field but if your scheme is slants and bubble screens it doesn't matter how many burners you have. Mike Williams would have been perfect for this offense. He has amazing hands and is a huge target and can go up for the jump-ball too. My favorite receiver from the Skins is Gary Clark so I am not just saying I like Williams because of his big name, I think he fits a role our team needs.