Re: Zone blocking
 

Sorry Schneed, my mistake!

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's the old chicken or the egg debate...

Some people think we didn't go downfield last year simply because Gibbs choose not to. Personally I find that a little hard to believe and I think there are a multitude of reasons behind the scenes that aren't always very obvious.

In Gibbs first go round, he was always a deep strike guy. Rypien used to throw bombs all over the place. So why would he all of a sudden pull in the reins and shorten the field? Could it have been due to some other circumstances like a shaky OL and Gibbs' adjustment period to today's attacking-style NFL defenses?

How about a new system and the adjustment period that goes along with that, especially for the QBs. How about our WRs? Gardner isn't a serious deep threat, and Coles toe has obviously effected his game. We can argue all we want whether the WRs have been upgraded, but if you're talking about pure speed, then yes we did upgrade with Moss and Patten.

I won't deny Gibbs himself was also to blame, but at the same time there isn't another coach I trust more to fix this offense. Gibbs will get it done, if he doesn't it won't be for a lack of effort... and that's a lot more than we can say about you know who.[/QUOTE]

A-friggin-men. Well said, Matty.

Daseal, I flat out disagree with your assessment of our WRs. Gardner would make a decent situational #3 (as long as the situation wasn't one where a crucial first-down catch was necessary). He's NOT a good #2. You can't look at his stats for the whole picture, his stats line does not show DROPS. He is not dependable enough, too inconsistent.

Coles is good, but he's not the deep threat we need with a bum toe, he can't get downfield.

If you're asking for deep threats in a passing game, I can't see how you'd be displeased with our current WRs.

But you and I have argued all these points before, it gets us nowhere. Basically your whole argument boils down to: last year Gibbs had the WRs to get it done, he just didn't call the right plays. Now this year, he doesn't have the WRs to get it done in the deep passing game. Basically, everything the guy does you think is retarded. And then on the other hand, you're saying you think he'll be successful in three years. I don't get it.

Re: Zone blocking
 

If you were old enough to watch the old Gibbs teams in the eighties and early nineties, I think most would agree its kind of tough to "forget about it". I don't want to forget. Those were the pinnacle years for the Redskins! There's nothing wrong with learning from mistakes (aka Gibbs 2004 season) and moving forward. We have confidence in Joe because he's done it before and we see no reason he can do it again. In our "internet, give-it-to-me-now" generation, development has become a analogy for failure. I just can't forget Super Bowl 17, 4th and 1, Riggins ripping down the sideline, faster than ANYONE thought. It hadn't worked the whole game but we stuck with it. Today, we would have given up that play.
We're all cocks and we should all go get laid!

Re: Zone blocking
 

If he makes the progression everyone here says he'll make I'll be the first in line to congratulate him on a job well done. However it will be October/November before we can really pans out.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]If he makes the progression everyone here says he'll make I'll be the first in line to congratulate him on a job well done. However it will be October/November before we can really pans out.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but there might not be any room on the bandwagon at that point.

Re: Zone blocking
 

I swear that sometimes it sounds like we have some undercover cowboy fans on this site. Daseal, your constant pessimisim is mind numbing. Please try to understand that Gibbs sees more and understands more about the Redskins and football than anyone on this site. He cant be treated like a first year coach because he is a three time superbowl winner. He won constantly over a decade. He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job. You act like instead of him having a ton of job experience, he is an Alzheimer's patient.

Did you ever watch his third superbowl win? If so, please comment on that passing attack.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts? I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs. Without Gibbs would this site even be where it is today? Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it. And it can't carry over into this phase of his coaching career. And that's fine if Daseal feels that way, but I just don't see how you can ignore what Gibbs has accomplished. If not for Spurrier's success in the USFL and NCAA he wouldn't have sniffed the NFL sidelines. The past is prologue as they say (is that right?) If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now. What has he done for us lately?" Sounds kind of silly doesn't it?

As GoSkins put it so well "He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job." The whole key to that is "put in the hours" This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process. And we'll have a healthy Jansen, a new Center, new receivers, a QB with several games under Gibbs offensive philosophy, a new OC, among other things this season. And we've improved our special teams. Don't underestimate the value of field position. Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

Yeah the offense does need to be tweaked, and it does need some more variety. But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense. Why wouldn't you play the game relatively close to the vest offensively and put the game primarily in your defense's hands? It's one thing to open up the offense, but it's another thing to put your ego above the good of the team, and just let the ball fly all day with 5 receiver sets.

Like Redskins_P said, all he was trying to do was start a thread about changes in the offensive philosophy, and yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.

Re: Zone blocking
 

:food-smil

great post TAFKAS....

I am just sick of hearing that he hasn't proven anything to daseal...
He's proven plenty to me and to many others on this board and that is all that matters.

Zone blocking
 

[size=2]I think I can understand where DaSeal is coming from.
After being disappointed by a HOF coach last year and a HOF-to-be(Marty) and a College HOF coach(Spurrier) and a Useless coach(Norv) for 13 years or so, it is hard to think optimistically when our offseason has not been good and we havent upgraded our O-line or DT's and DE's. We have new schemes on offense! Hooray! But we have the same 2nd and 3rd string personnel that messed up everything last year and we have to pray that they learned something and are not getting killed in practice by their own teammates. ST may sit out the year, moping, for all I know. I dont know his situation and he wont grow up, be honest and tell us. Heck, he wont even tell his own coach what is going on. So, tell me, what reason for great optimism is there. I see this as a five year plan in Gibbs' mind. He wil draft DT and DE next year and trade for O-line help next year too. Ramsey will suffer while the line in front of him comes together and the WR's get used to the system. Campbell will take over in '06 or '07 and lead us to the playoffs and look like a saint. Ramsey will end up in Frisco or some other place needing a good back up. Write off this season though. 8-8, 7-9, 6-10 here we come!
[/size]

Re: Zone blocking
 

What upgrade did we need at DT? Griffin, Salavea and Noble did more than a good job. They did great in fact. And what do you mean we didn't improve the O-line? Rabach, healthy Jansen, another year of experience for Dockery, Wilson, and Molinaro. Really, I don't get why you keep ripping on the O-line. If anybody understands why, please let me know

It's May and already we have people writing off the season, amazing

Re: Zone blocking
 

Noble is questionable for how long he will last this year and Salavea was decent but could be upgraded easily.
Dockery was not good last year and remains a massive question mark whether it was a soph slump or he is just that bad. Wilson, Molinaro....Heck! How about adding Nowland and Warner and our UDFA's for that matter are all huge question marks because they are unproven quantities. Jansen, I pray comes back better than before...He was awesome before but what if he blows his knee again. Rabach is a great addition but we need to finish off the O-line with one more good person(Dockery is no good) and some good young backups that have proven themselves. Like I have said before our sophomores better not have slumps this year or we are USC w/o a paddle.

Re: Zone blocking
 

I don't believe Jansen had missed a game up until last year, and yes it's possible he could get hurt again. But anyone could get hurt. But it's not like Jansen has shown a pattern of getting hurt.

It's true we have unknown quantities that are question marks. But that also sounds a lot like some guys on our team last year, such as LeMar Marshall and Ryan Clark. They turned out ok.

Sure Salavea could be upgraded, a lot of people could be upgraded. But does he need to be?

I guess what I'm not understanding is why all your hypotheticals tend to steer toward the negative.

Re: Zone blocking
 

In today's NFL, you can't write off ANYBODY in ANY season. That includes the friggin Arizona Cardinals.

What did you think the Chargers' chances were last year?

What did you think the Panthers' chances were the year before that?

I am cool with pessimistic opinions, it's OK. But it's going too far to say the Redskins have no shot this year because it's just not true. You never know who is going to blow up this year, because someone always does. Why not us? Why not now? Writing them off completely is just as bad as saying they're guaranteed to win the Super Bowl.

I don't mind Daseal's views, and I want him to continue to express his opinions even if I disagree with them wholeheartedly, but I do think he's contradicting himself a bit. On one hand, he disagrees with both Gibbs' playcalling of last year and personnel moves of this year, basically saying the playcalling was the problem last year, and now this year the problem is the personnel. Despite these problems, Daseal still says Gibbs will be successful in 3 years. I don't get that.

As for the O-Line, it's crazy to say they're not better this year. They had trouble at the beginning of the season last year, and if not for Brunell's scrambling ability, we would have been the most-sacked team in the first half of the year. But then we put statue Ramsey in there and he was sacked an average number of times. That's improvement throughout year 1 alone. In year 2 we have Jansen back and a more athletic center for pulls and traps. The line finished the season pretty well, they were not the problem. The run blocking problems were at TE (thanks a lot, Walter Rasby) and H-Back (Cooley can't run dudes over yet). Plus, our WRs could not get deep.

The o-line personnel is a strength this year.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]As for the O-Line, it's crazy to say they're not better this year. They had trouble at the beginning of the season last year, and if not for Brunell's scrambling ability, we would have been the most-sacked team in the first half of the year. But then we put statue Ramsey in there and he was sacked an average number of times. That's improvement throughout year 1 alone. In year 2 we have Jansen back and a more athletic center for pulls and traps. The line finished the season pretty well, they were not the problem. The run blocking problems were at TE (thanks a lot, Walter Rasby) and H-Back (Cooley can't run dudes over yet). Plus, our WRs could not get deep.

The o-line personnel is a strength this year.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree. I'm actually really excited about our o-line this year. Let's also add to the equation a second year under the Master, Joe Bugel. He'll have those dirtbags ready to maul guys in the trenches. Jansen being back cannot be overstated.
Would I like more depth as insurance? Of course I would.....but that costs money that we don't really have.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts? I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs. Without Gibbs would this site even be where it is today? Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it. And it can't carry over into this phase of his coaching career. And that's fine if Daseal feels that way, but I just don't see how you can ignore what Gibbs has accomplished. If not for Spurrier's success in the USFL and NCAA he wouldn't have sniffed the NFL sidelines. The past is prologue as they say (is that right?) If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now. What has he done for us lately?" Sounds kind of silly doesn't it?

As GoSkins put it so well "He won because he was willing to change his system as times changed and because he put in the hours to do a good job." The whole key to that is "put in the hours" This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process. And we'll have a healthy Jansen, a new Center, new receivers, a QB with several games under Gibbs offensive philosophy, a new OC, among other things this season. And we've improved our special teams. Don't underestimate the value of field position. Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"

Yeah the offense does need to be tweaked, and it does need some more variety. But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense. Why wouldn't you play the game relatively close to the vest offensively and put the game primarily in your defense's hands? It's one thing to open up the offense, but it's another thing to put your ego above the good of the team, and just let the ball fly all day with 5 receiver sets.

Like Redskins_P said, all he was trying to do was start a thread about changes in the offensive philosophy, and yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.

Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.[/QUOTE]


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. :biggthump

Re: Zone blocking
 

All I was trying to do is point out to everyone that Gibbs isn't this old stubborn coach who isn't willing to change his ways. He's making changes in his offense to fit his personnel and at the same time he's looking for guys that fit his scheme.

My point is, is that Gibbs has always adjusted. He's not afraid to make changes. So, let's not right him off yet. I bet we'll see plenty of improvements come preseason, and then the regular season.

Daseal, if you want to make a friendly bet I will.

I'm done with this thread.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Sorry for the incoherent venting, but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.[/QUOTE]

:biggthump You are most certainly not alone. Good post

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21][QUOTE=Daseal]If he makes the progression everyone here says he'll make I'll be the first in line to congratulate him on a job well done. However it will be October/November before we can really pans out.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but there might not be any room on the bandwagon at that point.[/QUOTE]

Daseal, I'll save you a seat.

Though I disagree (sometimes strongly) with Daseal's assessment of Gibbs, he heard the same predictions of a return to glory we all heard (and, in my case, made). He has every reason to feel as frustrated as he'd like.

He was, as I was, a believer in Spurrier's system; and since it didn't pan out here, and the system that replaced it was nearly the exact opposite, it's very frustrating to see regression in some cases. His viewpoint in that the system isn't working. Mine is that the personnel needs to adapt to it (or be replaced). Neither one of us is [i]right[/i] (except me), but we should all have a piece of Daseal's pragmatism/pessimism around just to soften the fall in case the problems of last year still aren't fixed in September.

Re: Zone blocking
 

I still fail to see how our OL is hurting, and I really don't see Dockery as being a major question mark. I thought he definitely improved last year and should only continue to do so. Yes he's the weakest link on what should be a very solid line as far as the starters go, but he's certainly not a huge liability. Otherwise why did we not look to upgrade this offseason? Obviously the staff has some faith in him.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Daseal, I'll save you a seat.

Though I disagree (sometimes strongly) with Daseal's assessment of Gibbs, he heard the same predictions of a return to glory we all heard (and, in my case, made). He has every reason to feel as frustrated as he'd like.

He was, as I was, a believer in Spurrier's system; and since it didn't pan out here, and the system that replaced it was nearly the exact opposite, it's very frustrating to see regression in some cases. His viewpoint in that the system isn't working. Mine is that the personnel needs to adapt to it (or be replaced). Neither one of us is [i]right[/i] (except me), but we should all have a piece of Daseal's pragmatism/pessimism around just to soften the fall in case the problems of last year still aren't fixed in September.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, but those who are most pessimistic don't get to jump in front of the rest of us who have been supporting Gibbs from day 1 in the proverbial "line" of people who will be singing his praises when we make the playoffs either this year or the next. Now, if Daseal wants to be the first in line to eat crow when Gibbs returns us to glory, I'm cool with that. And that goes for anyone who has been so quick to cast aside Gibbs's past accomplishments and take the "what have you done for me lately" attitude.

As hard as this may be to believe, I'm really not trying to get personal. I'm just taking issue with hedging bets. I can't sit here and rip anyone and then be the first to pat them on the back when they do a good job and act like everything is just fine. If Spurrier goes back to the NFL and finds success (LOL......I can't even type it without laughing), I would be the first one to get up on my soapbox and proclaim to the world (ok, just this forum, but you get the point) that I was wrong. I don't get to pat Spurrier on the back, I get to get down on my knees, kiss his a$$, and beg his pardon. That's all I'm entitled to.

I'm just setting the stage now for the inevitable: Gibbs will return us to glory, and all the nay-sayers (not you Brud, I know you've supported Gibbs) can forget about trying to jump on the bandwagon at that point because everyone on this forum knows where everyone else stands right now. Anyone can be a fan of a winner, but a true fan sticks with his man/team through the toughest times. There are a lot of true, die-hard fans of Joe Gibbs on this site. And there are people who simply are not fans of him.

I know I'm taking this whole "first in line" comment too literally, but it just really struck a nerve with me. I agree we need some realism on this site, and sometimes realism comes off as pessimism. But it really bugs me when a person's biggest critic jumps into the pile and starts high-fiving everyone when that person succeeds and wants to pretend like everything is cool.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]
I guess what I'm not understanding is why all your hypotheticals tend to steer toward the negative.[/QUOTE]

Once again...after 13 years of failure what do I have to be positive about?
Prove to me we are a good team again.
Get this season started....Let us win 6 out of 8 and I might believe we are decent but we have folded before in positions like that.
What do I have to believe in anymore with this team?....That we might open up the offense this year?
Spurrier tried that.
Failed too.
That we have a good QB in Ramsey?
Spurrier didnt care for his lack of mobility and his decision making, etc.
Gibbs doesnt care for him either.
So much needs to be proven.
Frustration gets the best of me sometimes.
Apologies if I go overboard every so often.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Daseal seems to forget we were the laughing-stock of the NFL when Sprurrier was here. He forgot the 27-0 beating by Dallas and 31-7 ass kicking by the Eagles in final part of 2003 season (Spurriers last season). Spurrier went out with a whimper.
It wasn't just the defense ans special teams that played awful under Spurrier, the offense had major embarrasing moments too. The offensive line jumping offsides, penalty's, sacks, the running game was non-existant. My favorite was 5', 8" Chad Morton blocking DE's and getting schooled.
Last year under Gibbs our offense was the only weak link and most of that was the OL and QB play. Both will improve this year. That is the major diffrence between Gibbs and Spurrier regimes, the team will improve under Gibbs. The teams play grew worse under Spurrier.

Re: Zone blocking
 

The problem with the extreme optimists and pessimists on this site and in our fan base in general is misguided expectations. For some reason, to some, the return of Gibbs meant that the NFL should have immediately begun engraving his name on the Lombardi Trophy, if not re-naming it the Gibbs Trophy. When it didn't happen, he's old, he's lost, he's clueless, he's washed up, he's crazy and senile.. For some others he can do no wrong and this is the year! If not, then next year!

Let's face it, we, like probably 29 other teams in the league are flawed. We have holes on the team. How about we wait until at least September before we start predicting a Super Bowl run or a 4-12 season?

Re: Zone blocking
 

Great post Paintrain

Re: Zone blocking
 

Starting from the bottom up: (this ended up being much longer than I expected)
[quote]Anyone can be a fan of a winner, but a true fan sticks with his man/team through the toughest times.[/quote]
Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.

[quote]I still fail to see how our OL is hurting, and I really don't see Dockery as being a major question mark. I thought he definitely improved last year and should only continue to do so. Yes he's the weakest link on what should be a very solid line as far as the starters go, but he's certainly not a huge liability. Otherwise why did we not look to upgrade this offseason? Obviously the staff has some faith in him.[/quote]
I don't understand either, Matty. With both of our tackles back healthy (Samuels was nagged by an injury all year) and Rabach along with another year of experience for Dockery I think our line (and more importantly) the continuity of it just got better!

[quote]All I was trying to do is point out to everyone that Gibbs isn't this old stubborn coach who isn't willing to change his ways.[/quote]
Exactly why I think he'll become a winner eventually. He's smart enough to assemble a savvy staff and I think he can put his ego below winning, which is what's really important.

[quote]My point is, is that Gibbs has always adjusted. He's not afraid to make changes. So, let's not right him off yet.[/quote]
Redskins_P: I've heard this argument a lot, but that's what scared me a lot last year. What locker room changes did we see during a game? How many changes did the system go through during the year. I was looking forward to awesome halftime adjustments to pull games out and was disappointed. Granted - the offseason is a much longer time and gives you more time to prepare and brief everyone.

[quote]In today's NFL, you can't write off ANYBODY in ANY season. That includes the friggin Arizona Cardinals.[/quote]
That’s for sure, but hey, the Cardinals ARE above us in the almighty power rankings! ;) Seriously though, there are sleeper teams nearly every year now. However, how many years have we been saying we're that team. 1/32 is a pretty big long shot.

[quote]But it's going too far to say the Redskins have no shot this year because it's just not true.[/quote]
Schneed, bro, please tell me where I say we don't have a shot this year. I've never said that, nor do I plan to.

[quote]On one hand, he disagrees with both Gibbs' playcalling of last year and personnel moves of this year, basically saying the playcalling was the problem last year, and now this year the problem is the personnel. Despite these problems, Daseal still says Gibbs will be successful in 3 years. I don't get that.[/quote]
Last year, I did disagree with the playcalling. I also didn't like the formations and how we ran very few plays out of each. I think the schemes need more work than the playcalling, and the playcalling more work than anything. This offseason we had some good moves. Rabach was a great start, but honestly, I wanted to see little action besides a C and maybe if a cheap/decent TE (like Freddie Jones) came available try to snag em. Most importantly I simply didn't want to lose people. We gave up too much to dump Coles, Smoot/Pierce hurt, Gardner is going to get cut. The only place I don't like our backup is really with the WR spot. Our offseason wasn't that bad, it wasn't splashy, which I'm glad for I just didn't like to see so many guys go.

Yes, I still say Gibbs will be successful (thanks for bringing that up) because most people on this board seem to forget that I add that into nearly every thread. I guess some people see me as trying to save a seat on the bandwagon, but Brud already has one for me -- so that's not necessary. Am I hard on Gibbs. Yep. Am I harder on him than he is on himself? Nope. He's a smart man, and he understands football, but even Jon Jansen said his offense was outdated. We'll see if it works this year, and I'm willing to bet if it doesn't he brings a top notch offensive coordinator in and let Gibbs do what he does best -- coach players, not call offense.

[quote]What upgrade did we need at DT? Griffin, Salavea and Noble did more than a good job. They did great in fact.[/quote]
I agree, our D line has a job, and it's not so much getting sacks. That’s what the blitzing does. It's occupying the line and playing the run. Which we actually have a pretty damn good line for. There's a reason Williams (rumor) told Gibbs not to draft a DE on the first day.

[quote]Anyone else feel like a little piece of their childhood is taken from them every time Daseal posts?[/quote]
First off, I apologize for taking your childhood.

[quote]I mean, a lot of us became fans of the Redskins in the 1980s and that was primarily because of Gibbs.[/quote]
So you mean you guys all jumped on the bandwagon in the 80s and because I think Gibbs system have problems but I'm still a die hard fan I'm not allowed on it? How ironic.

[quote]Daseal has decided, for whatever reason, that since he was not part of the first Gibbs era he can't respect it.[/quote]
I CAN respect what he did, I DO respect what he did, and if you read my posts over half of them say that. However, unlike a majority of the board, I don't feel like his success in the past should fully dictate how we view him now. He did great things in the 80’s, but I feel, and have always felt, that the NFL evolves very quickly and without a doubt it’s much different than Gibbs first go around. What he did in his first era was impressive, and that can never be taken from him. However, that doesn’t automatically make him a winner in this era.

[quote] If the Gamecocks go 3-8 next year, is it ok then for us to say "Spurrier might have been a good college coach back in the mid-90s but it's 2005 now.[/quote]
You always criticize me for bringing Spurrier into arguments, yet for some reason you bring him up much quicker than I do. First of all, Spurrier as a top flight college coach till the 2000’s. In 2005, if he’s not successful, he may have lost a little something. It wouldn’t surprise me at all, but college is much different from the NFL because of recruiting. The gamecocks aren’t exactly the recruiting power Florida was. That said, he gets 3 years in SC just like all of my coaches get.

[quote] This isn't an overnight transformation, this a year, two year, maybe even three year process.[/quote}
Hey, wait. You mean this could take even three years. You mean the amount of time I feel is necessary for most coaches to get their system/players in place. While I remember this board feeling that overnight the Redskins became winners. What happened TAFKAS, where is your optimism. Your pessimism is really dragging me down.

[quote] Yet there are those who are already determined to write off the season and Gibbs 2.0. Why? There are those that say give him three years, yet in the same sentence basically say "then in three years I'll say I told you so, that Gibbs couldn't get it done"[/quote]
I’m assuming you’re referring to me but for some reason decided to omit my name. This just continues to prove that you extract everything bad I say and separate it from the good things I write about Gibbs. Have I written off this season? No. What’s wrong with saying that we’ve heard this before (which we have) and didn’t see any results. I’m as excited about the upcoming season as the next guy, and I don’t care if Satan is coaching the Redskins I’m still watching every game and cheering. I say give every coach three years, but have I ever even mentioned an “I told you so.” If this is referring to me, I dare you to find where I say in no certain terms I told you so. I have a feeling you’re going to struggle to find something. I have said multiple times that Gibbs can get it done. If this wasn’t directed towards me, I’m sorry. If it was – start reading my posts, please.

[quote] But also keep in mind, we had an injured WR as our no. 1 receiver, we had a young QB learning a new system, we were missing our RT, and were forced to play a 42-year old guard at tackle. And we had a stellar defense.[/quote]
Sure we had woes, but our offensive injuries didn’t begin to equate to the problems on our defense as far as injury concerns go. Our injured #1 WR still played well enough with turf toe to go downfield. If he was that big of a liability he should have been sitting next to Brunell week 3. Jansen hurt us without a doubt, but I think not giving Ramsey a real chance to throw only hurt his progression. Give him a chance to put some points up besides when we’re down by a few touchdowns. Our defense was great, but unfortunately, they have a much harder time scoring. I believe the only times we won games was when our defense or special teams scored.

[quote] yet the Warpath Grim Reaper (Daseal I'm looking in your direction) has to go again and essentially mock another member for actually having some faith in the team.[/quote]
How did I essentially mock Redskins_P? We’re going to bring zone blocking in. Thank god! We brought it in last year and it worked. Yet we decided to abandon it. I haven’t mocked any member for having faith in Gibbs yet constantly get knocked for my views. Do I whine or complain about it? No. I know they aren’t the mainstream views, especially on a homer site. The mood is always upbeat and is viewed to a different tune than most of the NFL views us. What I like on this board is the difference of opinions and the debates come down to more than OMG U SUX, NO U SUX MORE type crap you so frequently see on forums. If you felt offended by me saying that it’s about time we start to use more zone blocking, I’m sorry Redskins_P, I didn’t understand that was an insult towards you.

[quote] but I know I can't be the only one who is tired of the constant negativity.[/quote]
I understand. Thanks for cheering us all up!

Here are my views on Gibbs:
What he did in the 80s was amazing. Without a doubt he changed the game of football, which is apparent by his enterance into the NFL hall of fame. An honor reserved for few coaches. However, the NFL is a quickly evolving game and leaving for just a few years can leave you with a lot of new things to adjust to. Last year, he looked shocked on the sideline. He had trouble with the attacking defense, and I think that forced him to chain his offense down. He was so afraid of taking a sack/turnover that he’d rather get very little offensive production and try to stretch the game out. Unfortunately being that conservative is hard to muster today. It’s very hard to win a game without 3 TDs.

When you have a stellar defense you can also afford to take SOME chances. Especially when it’s 3rd and 4-5 in an opponents territory. Throw the ball. I saw many times when it didn’t even look like we were trying for a first down. What sours me is how this site refused to put any of the blame on Gibbs at all for the problems. All these years coaches have been eaten alive for less, and now, all of a sudden, it’s the players. I know you love the man, but why is it so hard to say, yes, he’s doing something wrong. It was part way through the offseason before people started to admit it was more playcalling than execution.

I think our offense has a long way to go, we need to spread the field more and we need to put zone blocking in more often. We need to establish a mid-range passing game to make other teams respect it, and I’m not suggesting a Spurrier-esque offense at all. I want to see Portis carry the team, but he simply won’t be able to till we establish the pass. Something we didn’t get going last year.

Will this year be better? I think so. I feel that Gibbs is willing to make the changes and has had time to recover from the initial shock. He’s a hardworker and I’m sure has analyzed some of the NFL’s best offenses to try to see what works and what doesn’t. I think our offense will improve, yet our defense will slip a bit. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we may head down towards the 5 spot (which isn’t bad at all) as bad as 10.

Does Gibbs deserve respect, absolutely. Does he deserve a free pass, no. I know you guys think I’m pessimistic, but what I say isn’t what half of the other NFL fans say about him. I think we are a little blinded by our faith at times. We always seem to think the Redskins will start winning. Does any other perennial loser have as much faith as we do? Every year it’s our year. Gibbs was a good hire, he’s a great “coach.” If I could pick anyone in the NFL to be simply a leader of men, it would be Gibbs. His motivation techniques and how he builds team camradarie and the whole team aspect is amazing. I have no problem with the man whatsoever. I just feel both his personel and offensive ideals need some tweaking.

I don’t claim to know more than him, nor would I want to. He was a genius in his day, and I hope everything you say comes true. I hope we use zone blocking, try the shotgun, start doing some slant routes (which speedy receivers like Coles can light up, Spurrier ran it all the time and it was one of my favorite plays). We need to establish a passing game and get Portis up to at least 4.x YPC.

I think it’s silly to insult my fandom. If I weren’t a fan why would I keep following every last bit of Redskins news, watch every game religiously, and constantly post on this site? For gods sake, I’m consumed with Redskins pride, though you don’t think so. I stand by my team through thick and thin, and I let anyone who will listen know what I think about it. If my way of looking at things is different from yours – who cares. We all have different views, I know I’m a pessimistic person. I always have been. I don’t like to sugar coat things, and I like to be blunt and to the point.

When it comes down to it I end up defending Gibbs 90% of the time when I’m not on this site. The other viewpoint is always needed and Gibbs does have his share of problems. What NFL coach doesn’t? This team has a long way to go to improve, and most of that pressure is on Gibbs. I just don’t feel as if he should get a free pass when every other coach gets absolutely hounded on this board. In closing, let my give an abridged version of what I think of Gibbs”
His offense needs work, Schemes especially, playcalling needs to be less predictable, May need a offensive coordinator is he doesn’t get the offense going this year or at least by next, will bring the skins to a winning season and probably the playoffs before leaving, Is the best motivator out there. I feel that his legacy from the 80’s and his current state should be viewed as separate. Not completely separate, but this isn’t just a continuation. It’s not like after a super bowl he had a losing season. He took over a decade off, and that takes adjustment. His offense has problems now, but he will win eventually.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Wow. What did I MISS in the past 30 minutes?!

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]
Let me get this straight, all of us Redskins fans have been so just for all the winning years we've been having? As has been said on this board many times; the team is bigger than any single part of it, which includes a coach or a player.

I simply don't know why all of a sudden I'm not a Redskins fan because I'm skeptical of the changes. Could they happen, sure! How many times did we hear last year that changes would be made that we never saw? That's what worries me.[/QUOTE]

As a point of clarification, I would just like to say that I was not questioning your being a Redskins fan in my response. I was noting that there are some die hard fans of Joe Gibbs on this site (like myself) who won't turn on him in his toughest time as a coach because we are true fans of HIM whether he is winning or not. And while I don't see how being a fan of Joe Gibbs AND the Skins at the same time has to be mutually exclusive, it is possible to be a fan of the skins without being a fan of Gibbs (ala, you, Daseal). My point is that if you're not a true fan of him now, then don't jump on the bandwagon when he starts winning.

In my opinion (which is worth essentially nothing), you criticize Joe Gibbs entirely too much to ever be considered a fan of his, but your post does help clear some of that negativity/hostility up. All I'm saying is get behind him now, or don't bother later because I don't like fair-weather fans. You are by no means a fair-weather fan of the Skins.......you won't hear me say that about you any more (I know I questioned it once a few months ago). But if you were to be the first to congratulate him and pat him on the back for a job well done after being so critical for so long, THAT, to me, would be hypocritical. Again, you shead some light on your criticism of Gibbs in your last post, so I'm satisfied that you don't hate or completely disrespect the man (which was the impression I had before).

Re: Zone blocking
 

So I can't be happy when my football teams wins? That's ridiculous. How many people here hated many coaches but stayed behind the team? That's a very silly proposition. Why would that be hypocritical, it means he changed the only problem I have with him, his offense. All I want is for him to make an offense work, I don't think that's too much to ask.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]So I can't be happy when my football teams wins? That's ridiculous. How many people here hated many coaches but stayed behind the team? That's a very silly proposition. Why would that be hypocritical, it means he changed the only problem I have with him, his offense. All I want is for him to make an offense work, I don't think that's too much to ask.[/QUOTE]

Let me try this again. All I'm taking issue with is your comment that you'll be the first in line to congratulate Joe Gibbs on a job well done. I believe that to be hypocritical. Celebrate the Skins winning all you want. You're a Skins fan, party on. But if Gibbs proves you wrong, don't pat him on the back like you're buddies.....rather, apologize and admit you were wrong about him. You've said time and time again that your problem with him is that he won't change his system. Well if he does, then you would, in fact, be wrong about him. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

(And yes I realize you aren't really going to get to shake his hand personally or anything.......I'm just saying if and when he starts winning, expect me to be the first to say "I told you so", and don't try countering with "What? I was always behind Joe Gibbs. I sing his praises all the time now that we're in the playoffs").

Re: Zone blocking
 

I'm going to wish him a job well done, and if you just read my... well... manifesto.. you'd see that I think he can do it, but like with anyone, there's a chance that they can't. I'm not going to say "I told you so", but I will say congratulations and that he did a good job. Because it is certainly a feat worthy of praise. I _am_ behind Gibbs, just like with any coach. Just because I feel he has problems with his system doesn't mean I don't like him.

Re: Zone blocking
 

The word "fan" is short for "fanatic." It refers to an ardent devotee, and there is at least the implication that this devotion isn't particularly rational. For me, there is also the idea of "keeping the faith" tied into fanaticism. No matter how dark things look, WE BELIEVE! We believe irrationaly. We believe fanatically. And it is this belief that carries us through to eventual success. Our unfailing belief buoys the spirits of the players as we cheer them on at games. For if they don't themselves believe, how shall they ever be victorious? So, for me, unrelenting optimism and fanaticism do indeed go hand-in-hand. Realistic fanaticism just seems rather oxymoronic, doesn't it?

That why the Redskins WILL have a great season this year and WILL go to the playoffs. I BELIEVE!

Foolishness? Perhaps. Fanticism? You better believe it! After all, I AM A FAN!

--Phin the Fan

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Phinehas]The word "fan" is short for "fanatic." It refers to an ardent devotee, and there is at least the implication that this devotion isn't particularly rational. For me, there is also the idea of "keeping the faith" tied into fanaticism. No matter how dark things look, WE BELIEVE! We believe irrationaly. We believe fanatically. And it is this belief that carries us through to eventual success. Our unfailing belief buoys the spirits of the players as we cheer them on at games. For if they don't themselves believe, how shall they ever be victorious? So, for me, unrelenting optimism and fanaticism do indeed go hand-in-hand. Realistic fanaticism just seems rather oxymoronic, doesn't it?

That why the Redskins WILL have a great season this year and WILL go to the playoffs. I BELIEVE!

Foolishness? Perhaps. Fanticism? You better believe it! After all, I AM A FAN!

--Phin the Fan[/QUOTE]

Nice post Phinehas.

Re: Zone blocking
 

You act as if I go to a game and don't cheer my team on. I saw guys with 'skins Jerseys at the Pittsburgh game just sitting there. I was standing and yelling. I took a lot of shit from the fans around me (Pittsburgh ones of course) but you know what, they also gave me a lot of credit. We talked a lot.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I'm going to wish him a job well done, and if you just read my... well... manifesto.. you'd see that I think he can do it, but like with anyone, there's a chance that they can't. I'm not going to say "I told you so", but I will say congratulations and that he did a good job. Because it is certainly a feat worthy of praise. I _am_ behind Gibbs, just like with any coach. Just because I feel he has problems with his system doesn't mean I don't like him.[/QUOTE]

I understand. And I noted that your post (manifesto) did clear some things up. I just didn't want you to have the impression that I was saying you aren't a "Redskins" fan. Really that's all I wanted to accomplish in my first response to your post. We can agree to disagree on whether you could be considered a "Joe Gibbs" fan.

Re: Zone blocking
 

:laughing2 By the way, who would have thought a thread named "Zone blocking" would garner more than 75 posts? LOL

Re: Zone blocking
 

[quote]
You act as if I go to a game and don't cheer my team on. I saw guys with 'skins Jerseys at the Pittsburgh game just sitting there. I was standing and yelling. I took a lot of shit from the fans around me (Pittsburgh ones of course) but you know what, they also gave me a lot of credit. We talked a lot.
[/quote]

While fanaticism does imply irrational behavior, including standing up and screaming your lungs out (can you imagine the stares you'd get for acting that way in the grocery store?), I think that the word more strongly connotates irrational belief. So, while cheering is good, I think it is arguable that true fanatics do indeed demonstrate a degree of unrelenting optimism. Realism and fanaticism just don't seem to fit well together. When we talk about fanatics, we are implying that, to some extent, reality has been left behind. Otherwise, we'd use a different word. A supporter may cheer at games, but a fanatic, in the true sense of the word, BELIEVES unrelentingly, and often does so irrationaly.

--Phin the Fan

Re: Zone blocking
 

Yup, you can't have FAN without fanticism.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]:laughing2 By the way, who would have thought a thread named "Zone blocking" would garner more than 75 posts? LOL[/QUOTE]


It's all my fault. I created this monster.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Think we might have deviated from the subject a tad? LOL

Re: Zone blocking
 

It went from Zone blocking to Daseal saying to himself "it's me against the world" ala Tupac.