Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1183679]the calculator supposedly takes the state into effect, and checking it, states like NY and NJ do show a hit

Likewise it takes into account status and kids.

I'm actually not sure right now where my kids fall due to ages and divorce stuff, so I looked at both, and by the calculator as a single middle income guy with no kids in MD, I should still see some benefit, granted not as much as if I claim Head of Household with kids.

But that's always been the case...

I will say this, I know that where I fall, I am the least likely to see a positive note from this tax bill, I'm neither rich nor poor, nor overly invested, or needing/qualifying for government help. Yet I am still for any reduction overall in taxes, and I would like to see a similar reduction in overall spending. Unfortunately, while I would love to see the sequestration continued, and other programs take similar cuts, Trump is not going to cut military spending, and the democrats are not going to cut social spending so up goes the debt :([/quote]

Agree wholeheartedly with your philosophy. Hopefully the GOP takes an axe to spending in 2018. I'm discouraged by hearing Mnuchin coming out and saying the tax plan will pay for itself because of economic growth. That's an overly optimistic view.

I'd rather them cut the spending and run a surplus for a while. Then bring the spending back up later if the economy affords it (doubt it).

Re: Tax bill
 

Obviously it's going to be a partisan bill and political hacks are going to make the most of whichever provision they can gloat or cry over. My question/lament is this:

What would it take to get a bipartisan majority to find a way to get past senate/house/party leadership and build a coalition of the middle?

It's like the one Libertarian commercial that I thought was pretty good, if you are a republican theyll find a democrat to match the vote and vice versa. Good in principle at least.

I really believe most citizens don't want the partisanship, but like me, and several of you on here from the other side, I'm not willing to give up some without getting some. I go back to the wall/daca, military reductions/raised ss age (grandfathered), educational reform and charter schools/added protections for low income schooling/support programs.

Both sides seem to have my way or the highway mentalities while demonizing the other sides opinions. If we can't negotiate and find the common center, then we as a country are going to hit a real rough patch sooner rather than later.

Re: Tax bill
 

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/20/news/economy/nonprofit-salary-tax/index.html]Tax bill makes nonprofits pay up for employing millionaire execs - Dec. 20, 2017[/url]

Really glad this is happening.

Re: Tax bill
 

Admittedly, I don't really understand this bill and how it is officially going to effect me.

Just throwing it out there, we're a two person home and take zero deductions. Are we going to lose out in this whole thing? Wife and I are both pretty nervous about it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183671]About 3 out of 4 Americans will see their taxes go down.

I like it. Wish it helped the middle class more than it helps the wealthy, but help is help. I'd like it even more if they would now look at spending and cut that down so that our deficit doesn't get bigger.[/quote]

Year one,look and see what happens in year two and three.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1183748]Admittedly, I don't really understand this bill and how it is officially going to effect me.

Just throwing it out there, we're a two person home and take zero deductions. Are we going to lose out in this whole thing? Wife and I are both pretty nervous about it.[/quote]

I think the cnn calculator I linked to early would give you a decent idea. From what I could tell, nearly everyone will see a bump in take home pay first few years, but if you are in the 75K-225K area, you likely will see the least positive effect. (I don't know that, just the way the calculators look like)

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183753]Year one,look and see what happens in year two and three.[/quote]

Years 1-5 are effectively the same in the reform. It's years 6-9 where some changes occur, and you can believe there will be lots of campaigning to extend the positive parts of the bill.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1183748]Admittedly, I don't really understand this bill and how it is officially going to effect me.

Just throwing it out there, we're a two person home and take zero deductions. Are we going to lose out in this whole thing? Wife and I are both pretty nervous about it.[/quote]

Chances are your taxes will go down.

PM me your combined salary and I can tell you roughly.

Re: Tax bill
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1183748]Admittedly, I don't really understand this bill and how it is officially going to effect me.



Just throwing it out there, we're a two person home and take zero deductions. Are we going to lose out in this whole thing? Wife and I are both pretty nervous about it.[/QUOTE]


All you need to know it’s it’s going to be tremendous, fantastic, the best ever

Re: Tax bill
 

The best, believe me *while making the OK sign non-stop*.

Re: Tax bill
 

When most people see their first paycheck under the new plan, their opinion of this bill is going to change.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1183759]Years 1-5 are effectively the same in the reform. It's years 6-9 where some changes occur, and you can believe there will be lots of campaigning to extend the positive parts of the bill.[/quote]

LOL, NO. People in 2,500 range the first year will see about 255 ,the second and owe about 180 in the third. If you have a high property tax you should pay it this year so you can still get the deduction,it's being cut .

All so remember Obama care didn't self destruct trump and the GOP just fucked over the American people on health care by dumping the mandate.

Re: Tax bill
 

What 2500 group. If you are talking about the 250K I wouldn't call them middle clasd.

Re: Tax bill
 

"It's always a lot of fun when you win" - G1 fav President

Whew...I tell ya, Pocahontas did not look too happy today. Out their beating her little drum...

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183769]LOL, NO. People in 2,500 range the first year will see about 255 ,the second and owe about 180 in the third. If you have a high property tax you should pay it this year so you can still get the deduction,it's being cut .

All so remember Obama care didn't self destruct trump and the GOP just fucked over the American people on health care by dumping the mandate.[/quote]

Giantone, what you're saying doesn't make any sense, and the pieces I can actually make sense out of aren't true.

The tax changes in this bill will remain in effect until 2026, at which time the tax rates will revert to 2017 levels.

There may be certain deductions phasing in and out, but the pieces that affect the majority of the population will remain in effect from 2018 - 2025, changing back to the way we have them now in 2026.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183775]Giantone, what you're saying doesn't make any sense, and the pieces I can actually make sense out of aren't true.

The tax changes in this bill will remain in effect until 2026, at which time the tax rates will revert to 2017 levels.

There may be certain deductions phasing in and out, but the pieces that affect the majority of the population will remain in effect from 2018 - 2025, changing back to the way we have them now in 2026.[/quote]

Still looking for where I found those other numbers but this should be a good read ..............

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/families-will-feel-the-pain-of-losing-this-tax-break.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity[/url]

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183777]Still looking for where I found those other numbers but this should be a good read ..............

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/families-will-feel-the-pain-of-losing-this-tax-break.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity[/url][/quote]
EDIT: I missed this line in the article:
[quote][B]In all, the family's taxes would fall by $2,119 in 2018[/B], according to the Tax Policy Center.[/quote]

If that is the largest source of pain from this tax plan, then it's not a bad deal.

[quote]By 2027, this hypothetical family with two kids would wind up paying an additional $150 in taxes, compared with what they'd pay under today's framework because the enhanced child tax credits — and a range of individual income tax provisions — expire in 2025, the Tax Policy Center found.[/quote]

I would say $75K, 2 kids is right in the middle class range, so I would rather they didn't take a hit, but $10-$12/month, that's about what they will pay when they sign up for Disney's upcoming streaming service.

S/N I STILL hate misleading headlines. "Families will feel the pain" yet their example family, gets a $2k lower tax bill in 2018. HOW IS THAT A RESPONSIBLE HEADLINE???

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183777][B]Still looking for where I found those other numbers[/B] but this should be a good read ..............

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/families-will-feel-the-pain-of-losing-this-tax-break.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity[/url][/quote]

I think it was either in the fake news or media bias pages.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183777]Still looking for where I found those other numbers but this should be a good read ..............

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/families-will-feel-the-pain-of-losing-this-tax-break.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity[/url][/quote]

It's because the other numbers are either made up or entirely wrong.

But regardless... this CNBC article is correct that losing the personal exemption hurts, but the family tax credit is added, and the child tax credit is doubled. That helps offset the loss of the personal exemption.

That's why, in CRed's example, a $75K family can lose the exemption but have taxes go down by $2100. The loss of the personal exemption hurts, the gain of the family tax credit helps, and they basically offset each other.

But that is a very specific circumstance, and this CNBC article shows clear bias (unsurprisingly), by attacking the removal of one exemption without mentioning the addition of another. Any accountant (I am one) will tell you that's not a fair, balanced, and complete picture.

And this CNBC article is clear that the reversion back to existing rates doesn't occur until 2026.

You coming on here and saying that it will be a problem in "Year 2" is tantamount to spreading fake news. Get yourself educated or shut the fuck up.

Re: Tax bill
 

Seriously guys, I am not pushing an agenda here, but you all really need to take a hard look at your news sources. CNBC's headline says losing this personal exemption is going to hurt, and then in the article they turn around and give an example of a family of 4 making $75K will see taxes going down by $2100.

They fail to explain that the loss of the personal exemption is more than offset by the reduction in the tax brackets and the pickup of the family tax credit.

75-80% of Americans will pay LESS taxes under this bill. You can argue with the merits of giving bigger breaks to corporations, or bigger breaks to the wealthy, and that's all fine. But when the news sources you're using don't even deal in even-handed facts, your opinions are colored.

That's why both I, and Paul Ryan, are extremely confident that American approval of this bill is going to go up the second your first paycheck comes through.

"Oh, you mean I got a raise? Why did CNBC say I would feel the loss of the personal exemption?"

Because they're full of shit. Don't read them.

Re: Tax bill
 

I wonder if this is fake news, because it sounds kind of positive:

[URL="https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html"]AT&T is giving $1,000 bonuses to 200,000 employees after tax bill[/URL]

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1183787]I wonder if this is fake news, because it sounds kind of positive:

[URL="https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html"]AT&T is giving $1,000 bonuses to 200,000 employees after tax bill[/URL][/quote]

Great to see. Hopefully this is trend

Re: Tax bill
 

No , you the one drinking the kool /aid the Paul Ryan kool /aid. People will get a tax cut first year, a couple of hundred the second and owe on the third.


Guthrie made him look like a bitch!


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qif7FfVGIWA[/url]

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183791]No , you the one drinking the kool /aid the Paul Ryan kool /aid. People will get a tax cut first year, a couple of hundred the second and owe on the third.


Guthrie made him look like a bitch!


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qif7FfVGIWA[/url][/quote]

I watched the Guthrie interview. He actually destroyed her. She doesn’t understand why bringing money home from overseas is a boon to our economy. She thinks it means more spending on jobs and wages. It doesn’t, it means more dollars creating investment earnings that are actually subject to US tax rates. Her understanding of the economy is superficial at best.

I’ll warn you too, same goes for you in this situation. You’re talking to an MBA Mensa member with a vast understanding of economic policy, well-read on the tax bill, and with a big dick.

The information you have, if you can even produce it and I doubt you can, is flat wrong. The tax rates will remain in place to 2026.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183791]No , you the one drinking the kool /aid the Paul Ryan kool /aid. People will get a tax cut first year, a couple of hundred the second and owe on the third.


Guthrie made him look like a bitch!


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qif7FfVGIWA[/url][/quote]

Poor savannah...as someone who watches articles of incorporations such as safe havens as Cayman Islands, guersey and Isle of Man...she really has no inkling of what’s she talking about. It’s rather sad...”pass through” entities....these have been smart strategic structures to avoid a taxes of the us at an uncompetitive rate. This is what we are trying to avoid

Re: Tax bill
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1183791]No , you the one drinking the kool /aid the Paul Ryan kool /aid. People will get a tax cut first year, a couple of hundred the second and owe on the third.


Guthrie made him look like a bitch!


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qif7FfVGIWA[/url][/QUOTE]Guthrie looked like a partisan hack. She had a clear agenda and wanted to get her shots in. At no point did she seriously reflect his points in an interview or discussion style, in fact she used passive aggressive and actively aggressive terms to dismiss and minimize his articulated responses.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1183800]Guthrie looked like a partisan hack. She had a clear agenda and wanted to get her shots in. At no point did she seriously reflect his points in an interview or discussion style, in fact she used passive aggressive and actively aggressive terms to dismiss and minimize his articulated responses.[/quote]

LOL, wrong. She showed Ryan a video of CEO's admitting they will not use the tax break to bring back jobs or job creation,Ryan lies as does the GOP who went against their own voters on this one..The new bill doesn't bring money or jobs back ,companies will only pay tax on monies made in the US,anything made outside will be un taxed,you figure it out.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183794]I watched the Guthrie interview. He actually destroyed her. She doesn’t understand why bringing money home from overseas is a boon to our economy. She thinks it means more spending on jobs and wages. It doesn’t, it means more dollars creating investment earnings that are actually subject to US tax rates. Her understanding of the economy is superficial at best..[/quote]



Wrong. Yes she slammed him ,it's not what she thinks it's what the GOP said to sell the tax bill and she called him on it.US CEO's all said they will not use the monies saved to create "investment earnings"..I applaud you being an MBA MENSA member and I sincerely don't give to shits about your dick but your wrong.


So you're saying all the links I put up are wrong,all of them.


[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/business/republican-tax-cut.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=F5D70F189A04C73FFD03295A736CF063&gwt=pay[/url]


[url=http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/362144-a-tax-policy-that-really-will-create-jobs-and-raise-wages]A tax policy that really will create jobs and raise wages | TheHill[/url]

Re: Tax bill
 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You said the tax breaks would go away in the second year. Not a single one of the links you provided say that.

And it's really hard to take you seriously when you mix up your to/two/too and your/you're. I feel like I'm arguing with a 13 year old girl.

Re: Tax bill
 

AT&T Inc. and Comcast Corp. said they would pay a $1,000 bonus to most of their U.S. workers—more than 300,000 people combined—once the president signs the legislation. Wells Fargo & Co. and Fifth Third Bancorp said they would raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour.

-wall street journal

Re: Tax bill
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1183815]AT&T Inc. and Comcast Corp. said they would pay a $1,000 bonus to most of their U.S. workers—more than 300,000 people combined—once the president signs the legislation. Wells Fargo & Co. and Fifth Third Bancorp said they would raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour.



-wall street journal[/QUOTE]


Good for them, I would love to see this become the norm but I highly doubt it will. Let’s not lose sight of who will ultimately gain from this tax bill.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183811]Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You said the tax breaks would go away in the second year. Not a single one of the links you provided say that.

And it's really hard to take you seriously when you mix up your to/two/too and your/you're. I feel like I'm arguing with a 13 year old girl.[/quote]

No , I said they reduce them and they do.


[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politics/calculate-americans-taxes-senate-reform-bill/index.html]Use this calculator to see how the tax bill affects your paycheck - CNNPolitics[/url]


[url]https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/trump-tax-reform-calculator[/url]


these calculators are for your paycheck ,still trying to find the one about how the new bill affects home owners.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183811]

And it's really hard to take you seriously when you mix up your to/two/too and your/you're. I feel like I'm arguing with a 13 year old girl.[/quote]



Sorry, you could always chose not to respond.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1183815]AT&T Inc. and Comcast Corp. said they would pay a $1,000 bonus to most of their U.S. workers—more than 300,000 people combined—once the president signs the legislation. Wells Fargo & Co. and Fifth Third Bancorp said they would raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour.

-wall street journal[/quote]

So what was the reason for not giving the bonus before the tax bill, I mean both companies had the money and were what just sitting on it? Most will see about $575 out of the $1000 since it will be maxed taxed.

Re: Tax bill
 

What happened to flex spend money for dependent care? Did they get rid of using pre taxed plans for child care? I know the house repubs wanted to do that originally, but I can't find anything about if the senate talked some sense into them. I also hate how they add shit that has nothing to do with the bill. Drilling in ANWR? Way to provide unnecessary government subsidies to private sector. I know that this is the way it works but hate it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183820]Sorry, you could always chose not to respond.[/quote]

*choose

:laughing-

It's like talking with a 4th grader.

Re: Tax bill
 

Honestly you guys are both acting like kids

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183819]No , I said they reduce them and they do.


[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politics/calculate-americans-taxes-senate-reform-bill/index.html]Use this calculator to see how the tax bill affects your paycheck - CNNPolitics[/url]


[url]https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/trump-tax-reform-calculator[/url]


these calculators are for your paycheck ,still trying to find the one about how the new bill affects home owners.[/quote]

So if in 2018 a family pays $3000 less in taxes than they do now, and in 2019 they pay $2950 less in taxes than they do now, that to you is a bad thing?

You're a fucking moron.

Re: Tax bill
 

I think a lot of the opponents of this are arguing semantics. 80% of the public will see positive numbers from this for the next 7 years. That seems like a good thing.

Further, I doubt that the 20% that see "pain" will see overarching NEW federal tax burdens killing them.[LIST][*]it's funny to me that the ones who may see the most pain are the ones who have the highest state taxes, simple solution, vote in local legislatures that will reduce state outlays - I'm looking at you CA and NY)[*]also funny, the high tax states like NY, NJ, CA, DC, OR, or CT, how many voted for Trump or Republicans? Is it really THAT shocking that they see the least benefit or are going to receive the least consideration. [*]Here is a map of the senate election results - geography quiz - how many republican senators were elected from NY, NJ, CA, DC, OR, or CT?
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/2016_US_Senate_election_results_map.svg/350px-2016_US_Senate_election_results_map.svg.png[/IMG][*]geography quiz #2 - how many high tax states have a plurality of Republicans in Congress? again, here is a map of the House votes by party holding plurality in each state to help you out
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/115th_US_Congress_House.png/400px-115th_US_Congress_House.png[/IMG][/LIST]

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1183805]LOL, wrong. She showed Ryan a video of CEO's admitting they will not use the tax break to bring back jobs or job creation,Ryan lies as does the GOP who went against their own voters on this one..The new bill doesn't bring money or jobs back ,companies will only pay tax on monies made in the US,anything made outside will be un taxed,you figure it out.[/quote]

G1, do you think the sole intention of the Corporate tax rate cut is just to make these entities wealthier? Is that your logic and understanding?