Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1212591]What's been extraordinary about this prodigy so far?

Out of his first 4 picks, 3 of them have more injuries than games started(Guice, Christian, Apke).

I like Payne and Guice picks but this isn't extraordinary.[/QUOTE] The honest answer is nobody knows.

The bottom line is nobody in this forum, or even the media for that matter, know how good or bad he is; or how much or little involvement he had in the draft because Bruce has kept the whole FO workings intentionally vague.

All we know for certain is that people who would have the best opportunity to know think he is special.

It is also a big jump to assume he was solely responsible for those picks.

It is also a bit early to assume Guice and Christian are bad picks.

I also read there was a huge internal disagreement on Apke.

But if you want to assign those picks and those injuries to Smith as a stawman to knock over be my guest because my interest in him as a GM is as equally uninformed.



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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

I’m really hoping If we are lucky enough to get rid of Bruce Allen, that we just don’t promote Doug and make no other changes in the front office. That would be a terrible failure. We need to completely culture change in the front office.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

If a large number of heads haven't rolled by NYE, I'll just lose all hope.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

The biggest reason to clean house, including Smith, is he’s yet another one of these people that Bruce Allen knows, so he went with what was comfortable. He knew AJ Smith and AJ said hey give my son a shot.

I want all sense of cronyism gone from Redskins Park. I want a culture of what you know, not who you know. I don’t like how everyone is familiar with everyone, it breeds a culture of comfort. There are very good candidates out there, we just need to look.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

Smith can’t be ANY worse than Allen, and at least Smith is a football mind. Allen should be on the business side of the house, and has NO business making football decisions.


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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1212603]The biggest reason to clean house, including Smith, is he’s yet another one of these people that Bruce Allen knows, so he went with what was comfortable. He knew AJ Smith and AJ said hey give my son a shot.

I want all sense of cronyism gone from Redskins Park. I want a culture of what you know, not who you know. I don’t like how everyone is familiar with everyone, it breeds a culture of comfort. There are very good candidates out there, we just need to look.[/QUOTE]There was a prevailing sense of cronyism with Kyle as the OC.

He went on to coordinate the best offense in the NFL in a Superbowl a few years later.

If Smith is a true talent, and none of us know if he truly is, it doesn't seem smart to get rid of him just because his dad knew Bruce.

If true meritocracy is the goal, and I think that's what most favor, then that's not it.

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1212606]There was a prevailing sense of cronyism with Kyle as the OC.

He went on to coordinate the best offense in the NFL in a Superbowl a few years later.

If Smith is a true talent, and none of us know if he truly is, it doesn't seem smart to get rid of him just because his dad knew Bruce.

If true meritocracy is the goal, and I think that's what most favor, then that's not it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]

Fine, then make the case why Smith is a better candidate than Joe Douglas or several others out there. Because I’m not seeing it. And because I’m not seeing it, I’m left with the assumption that he’s riding his father’s coat tails. Can you explain to me why AJ Smith is more qualified and accomplished than the alternatives?

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Schneed10;1212608]Fine, then make the case why Smith is a better candidate than Joe Douglas or several others out there. Because I’m not seeing it. And because I’m not seeing it, I’m left with the assumption that he’s riding his father’s coat tails. Can you explain to me why AJ Smith is more qualified and accomplished than the alternatives?[/quote]

Would this do?

Smith ran the 2018 draft though, and that is the plan for the future.

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/losing-sean-mcvay-might-have-put-wheels-motion-redskins-keep-kyle-smith%3famp[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.richmond.com/redskins-xtra/meet-the-rising-star-who-is-in-line-to-be/article_3c95c239-37b6-5abb-911b-09e42aa598e5.amp.html[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/10/is-kyle-smith-in-line-to-become-redskins-next-gm/amp/[/url]

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1212608]Fine, then make the case why Smith is a better candidate than Joe Douglas or several others out there. Because I’m not seeing it. And because I’m not seeing it, I’m left with the assumption that he’s riding his father’s coat tails. Can you explain to me why AJ Smith is more qualified and accomplished than the alternatives?[/QUOTE]

I don't know if he is better or not and neither do you because it's impossible for casual fans on the couch to know this type of thing.

Douglas has a fantastic resume and Philly values him by the way they pay him and prevent him interviewing.

This doesn't mean Kyle Smith isn't just as good if not better. We can't know.

It would take an insider scouring their scouting reports and draft grades to truly know.

I totally get your preference for Douglas. He is more of a known commodity and feels like the safer choice.

Behind the scenes, Smith maybe compiling the best scouting reports the world has ever seen. He may not be, but the people in a position to know seems too think he hangs the moon.

I guess we'll see.

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1212613]Would this do?

Smith ran the 2018 draft though, and that is the plan for the future.

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/losing-sean-mcvay-might-have-put-wheels-motion-redskins-keep-kyle-smith%3famp[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.richmond.com/redskins-xtra/meet-the-rising-star-who-is-in-line-to-be/article_3c95c239-37b6-5abb-911b-09e42aa598e5.amp.html[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/10/is-kyle-smith-in-line-to-become-redskins-next-gm/amp/[/url][/quote]

Worked with the Redskins since 2010 starting as an intern, and yeah the Redskins have been a model of draft success, lol. Vs Joe Douglas who worked under Ozzie Newsome for 15 years, and was part of Ravens and Eagles super bowl teams.

Saying they’re in the same class is laughably ignorant of the talent pool available in the 31 other teams.

Smith can stay with a role in the scouting dept. We can do better at the GM spot.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1212615]Worked with the Redskins since 2010 starting as an intern, and yeah the Redskins have been a model of draft success, lol. Vs Joe Douglas who worked under Ozzie Newsome for 15 years, and was part of Ravens and Eagles super bowl teams.

Saying they’re in the same class is laughably ignorant of the talent pool available in the 31 other teams.

Smith can stay with a role in the scouting dept. We can do better at the GM spot.[/QUOTE]How can you make the last claim from the couch?

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Schneed10;1212615]Worked with the Redskins since 2010 starting as an intern, and yeah the Redskins have been a model of draft success, lol. Vs Joe Douglas who worked under Ozzie Newsome for 15 years, and was part of Ravens and Eagles super bowl teams.

Saying they’re in the same class is laughably ignorant of the talent pool available in the 31 other teams.

Smith can stay with a role in the scouting dept. We can do better at the GM spot.[/quote]

Read JP Finlay’s article (the 1st of the 3)he ran this years draft.
Do you not like:

Payne
Guice
Christian
Apke
Settle
Hamilton
Stohman
Quinn

It’s shitty luck most got hurt but the jury is out and the draft is not if it is successful for 1-3 years. I think it’s a pretty solid draft.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1212617]Read JP Finlay’s article (the 1st of the 3)he ran this years draft.
Do you not like:

Payne
Guice
Christian
Apke
Settle
Hamilton
Stohman
Quinn

It’s shitty luck most got hurt but the jury is out and the draft is not if it is successful for 1-3 years. I think it’s a pretty solid draft.[/quote]

Too early. Happy w Payne, but I should be, he’s a 1st. Thrilled with Guice. And Settle looks like a rotational guy I can count on. The rest looks like special teams to me, but like I said, far too early.

Same can be said of Kyle Smith. I want more experience and a longer track record with well-run organizations. I look at his experience being mostly with the toxic culture in Allen’s shop and I see it as a negative. It’s not his fault but it’s still what he knows.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Schneed10;1212620]Too early. Happy w Payne, but I should be, he’s a 1st. Thrilled with Guice. And Settle looks like a rotational guy I can count on. The rest looks like special teams to me, but like I said, far too early.

Same can be said of Kyle Smith. I want more experience and a longer track record with well-run organizations. I look at his experience being mostly with the toxic culture in Allen’s shop and I see it as a negative. It’s not his fault but it’s still what he knows.[/quote]

Yeah looks like a typical NFL draft to me. 1st round should be a starter and 2nd round should be able to start or get decent playing time. 3rd and 4th round off the bench everyone else is a warm body.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

I think growing up under a good organization doesn't necessarily predict future success Schneed. You make a good point that the culture around here is toxic and I'm not sure Kyle Smith has benefitted from that, but OTOH look at how many of Bill B's former assistants and FO guys (like Pioli) haven't panned out elsewhere.

I don't have a suggestion as to where we can find the next NFL prodigy either, why does it have to be so hard?

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Schneed10;1212603]The biggest reason to clean house, including Smith, is he’s yet another one of these people that Bruce Allen knows, so he went with what was comfortable. He knew AJ Smith and AJ said hey give my son a shot.

I want all sense of cronyism gone from Redskins Park. I want a culture of what you know, not who you know. I don’t like how everyone is familiar with everyone, it breeds a culture of comfort. There are very good candidates out there, we just need to look.[/quote]

I lean with this way of thinking...we need more merit/results based accountability...not Doug William is an ex Redskins give him a job or the Smith link with a comfy job based on who his dad was...

I'm with S10 on this one...go outside the org with an established guy who had to work his way up and learned in a solid run front office.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[url]https://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2018/12/10/2019-nfl-general-manager-candidate-study/[/url]

here is a nice lil blurb about gm candidates. s10 guy is on there..

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1212617]Read JP Finlay’s article (the 1st of the 3)he ran this years draft.
Do you not like:

Payne
Guice
Christian
Apke
Settle
Hamilton
Stohman
Quinn

It’s shitty luck most got hurt but the jury is out and the draft is not if it is successful for 1-3 years. I think it’s a pretty solid draft.[/quote]


Payne has been pretty good, actually he's been better than Allen most games (don't get me started on him).

Stroman isn't terrible, Quinn showed promise and Guice has RB1 potential. We will see

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

Talking about a draft class this early doesn't make much sense. But I still know Apke was a garbage pick.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Chico23231;1212640]Talking about a draft class this early doesn't make much sense. But I still know [B]Apke was a garbage pick[/B].[/quote]

I believe we drafted him too early but he was solid special teamer, which is something we need.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=mooby;1212632]I think growing up under a good organization doesn't necessarily predict future success Schneed. You make a good point that the culture around here is toxic and I'm not sure Kyle Smith has benefitted from that, but OTOH look at how many of Bill B's former assistants and FO guys (like Pioli) haven't panned out elsewhere.

I don't have a suggestion as to where we can find the next NFL prodigy either, why does it have to be so hard?[/quote]

I'm with ya, and I think it's not only hard for us as fans but it's hard for franchises too, as you note. But at the same time if you find a personnel guy who has 15+ years of experience, and that experience included being part of two separate Super Bowl winning organizations, I take that as a pretty good resume. Right? I mean that part isn't hard.

I feel like justifying Kyle Smith over Joe Douglas's much more accomplished resume is the same as reaching for a draft pick. Or perhaps a more apt comparison, the same thing as passing up Wade Phillips for Joe Barry or passing up Gus Bradley for Greg Manusky.

It's bypassing an unequivocally stronger resume for someone you're familiar with. That's the EXACT thinking we need to purge from Redskins park. I'm alarmed that anybody wants to continue with that mindset.

And I'm not even married to Joe Douglas. All I want is a thorough search of all available applicants and to pick the strongest resume. How do you determine strongest resume? Not that hard, I don't think. Look for experience, look for winning organizations, talk to people to get references and recommendations, and then interview them. It's still a crapshoot - guys like Pioli made good sense as strong resumes, and it just didn't work out. But for God's sakes don't just go with familiar. Familiar is how we've ended up with mediocrity and empty seats.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=MTK;1212364]Kyle Smith, Gregg Williams


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I don't want anyone who has been with the team over the past 10yrs in charge .. Look at our draft history... It's a laughing stock .. I would fire everyone except Doug Williams and Eric Shaffer...I would then hire a new director of college personnel...

This team needs a defensive oriented HC that will instill discipline and toughness into this team...someone like the Bears DC Vic Fangio....

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1212644]I don't want anyone who has been with the team over the past 10yrs in charge .. Look at our draft history... It's a laughing stock .. I would fire everyone except Doug Williams and Eric Shaffer...I would then hire a new director of college personnel...

This team needs a defensive oriented HC that will instill discipline and toughness into this team...someone like the Bears DC Vic Fangio....[/quote]

After this season Fangio will be a top HC candidate. He's another guy I'd take.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

GM prospect I think would be a good choice would be George Paton from the Vikings. I think the Seattle guys would be great as well. S10 Joe Douglas would be another guy who would very good.

We need to clean the fucking house

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Schneed10;1212643]I'm with ya, and I think it's not only hard for us as fans but it's hard for franchises too, as you note. But at the same time if you find a personnel guy who has 15+ years of experience, and that experience included being part of two separate Super Bowl winning organizations, I take that as a pretty good resume. Right? I mean that part isn't hard.

I feel like justifying Kyle Smith over Joe Douglas's much more accomplished resume is the same as reaching for a draft pick. Or perhaps a more apt comparison, the same thing as [B]passing up Wade Phillips for Joe Barry or passing up Gus Bradley for Greg Manusky[/B].

It's bypassing an unequivocally stronger resume for someone you're familiar with. That's the EXACT thinking we need to purge from Redskins park. I'm alarmed that anybody wants to continue with that mindset.

And I'm not even married to Joe Douglas. All I want is a thorough search of all available applicants and to pick the strongest resume. How do you determine strongest resume? Not that hard, I don't think. Look for experience, look for winning organizations, talk to people to get references and recommendations, and then interview them. It's still a crapshoot - guys like Pioli made good sense as strong resumes, and it just didn't work out. But for God's sakes don't just go with familiar. Familiar is how we've ended up with mediocrity and empty seats.[/quote]

An analogy I can understand. Well said. Definitely agree we should try to avoid the trap of familiarity. Kyle Smith should get an interview at least, but if DS is smart (big if) he will bring in some candidates like you mentioned. I'm really just concerned he might not be able to cope with bringing in a guy who would prefer Dan stay out of football ops.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1212655]An analogy I can understand. Well said. Definitely agree we should try to avoid the trap of familiarity. Kyle Smith should get an interview at least, but if DS is smart (big if) he will bring in some candidates like you mentioned. I'm really just concerned he might not be able to cope with bringing in a guy who would prefer Dan stay out of football ops.[/QUOTE] The Rams should have went with a much more accomplished HC candidate?

How would hiring McVay have looked in hind sight? Would he have been too familiar?

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1212670]The Rams should have went with a much more accomplished HC candidate?

How would hiring McVay have looked in hind sight? Would he have been too familiar?

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Dude here's the thing you're missing. Do you like DAN SNYDER's chances of finding someone successful HE'S familiar with?

It's not like we have a great tree to work from here. We don't have Bill Walsh in our ownership or front office, with this immense and accomplished tree from which to pluck.

Dan Snyder is the exact reason why we need to can Allen and hope Snyder opens himself up to an expansive search. If Snyder goes with someone he's familiar with, we've shot ourselves in the foot from the jump.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

Dan needs to bring someone in to consult with over a new GM, Joe Gibbs perhaps since he seems to trust him. Otherwise I have zero trust in Snyder and the ownership group to select a GM on their own.


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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1212677]Dude here's the thing you're missing. Do you like DAN SNYDER's chances of finding someone successful HE'S familiar with?

It's not like we have a great tree to work from here. We don't have Bill Walsh in our ownership or front office, with this immense and accomplished tree from which to pluck.

Dan Snyder is the exact reason why we need to can Allen and hope Snyder opens himself up to an expansive search. If Snyder goes with someone he's familiar with, we've shot ourselves in the foot from the jump.[/QUOTE]All the same people who called McVay a prodigy and predicted his rise are saying the same type things about Smith.

We might have something special here, just like with Mcvay.

We might not, but you seem to have blinders on by not wanting to even consider him.

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

I need someone to be fired immediately. Quench that thirst.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=MTK;1212679]Dan needs to bring someone in to consult with over a new GM, Joe Gibbs perhaps since he seems to trust him. Otherwise I have zero trust in Snyder and the ownership group to select a GM on their own.


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Has Joe Gibbs even kept in touch with the NFL? He must be pretty busy with his race teams.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=MTK;1212679]Dan needs to bring someone in to consult with over a new GM, Joe Gibbs perhaps since he seems to trust him. Otherwise I have zero trust in Snyder and the ownership group to select a GM on their own.


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How the hell is Bruce wanted in Oakland/LV?? That is mind boggling to me

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1212690]How the hell is Bruce wanted in Oakland/LV?? That is mind boggling to me[/quote]

bruce and jon are boys....and jon has complete control of that franchise

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

Jon wants a yes man

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1212689]Has Joe Gibbs even kept in touch with the NFL? He must be pretty busy with his race teams.[/quote]

That's ok, wouldn't take long to get him up to speed and he would certainly be an asset to be involved with the interview process.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

Jon is fucking that organization up, Al Davis traded his ass for a reason lol

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1212683]All the same people who called McVay a prodigy and predicted his rise are saying the same type things about Smith.

We might have something special here, just like with Mcvay.

We might not, but you seem to have blinders on by not wanting to even consider him.

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Because the track record isn't there yet.

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1212695]Because the track record isn't there yet.[/QUOTE]That's reasonable.

I'm in favor of rolling the dice more if the talent is there.

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Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1212704]That's reasonable.

I'm in favor of rolling the dice more if the talent is there.

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What if I told you that you could find talent that also has a track record?

Re: All I want for Christmas is a nsw Front Office
 

[quote=MTK;1212679]Dan needs to bring someone in to consult with over a new GM, Joe Gibbs perhaps since he seems to trust him. Otherwise I have zero trust in Snyder and the ownership group to select a GM on their own.


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same here