Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

We didn't give up any draft picks (we only gave up a late round difference in position next year) and we picked up a quarterback who is either going to be a serviceable starter or a quality backup. And, he is on a cheap, one year contract.

I don't think you can argue this is a "bad" deal.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

If next years starter beats out Keenum and McCoy in open competition then we should have a descent QB Corp.. you could do a lot worse than those two as backups!

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

If he plays well and earns a $15M year deal from some other team in 2020 he’ll bring a comp pick our way. Same goes for Colt actually. The Skins are smart to get guys affordably with at least some upside and let them play out their contract. It’s how you build up the comp picks. The Pats have been doing it for years.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

I really don't have a problem with Keenum. Colt simply can not be counted on to stay healthy. I just don't want either starting any games for us.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1219622]If he plays well and earns a $15M year deal from some other team in 2020 he’ll bring a comp pick our way. Same goes for Colt actually. The Skins are smart to get guys affordably with at least some upside and let them play out their contract. It’s how you build up the comp picks. The Pats have been doing it for years.[/quote]

Sheehan often describes Bruce Allen in free agency as the guy "that gets great deals on average players"... Seems it's also accurate about trades !

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

I'm glad the Redskins didn't trade for Rosen...that would have meant giving up a higher draft pick....I'm okay with the trade for Keenum...Keenum will only account for 3.5 million dollars against the cap....in reviewing his career statistics and highlights he'll throw more touchdowns than interceptions for damn sure...the front office knows what they are doing...hopefully Brett Rypien will still be available in the 3rd round.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=jamf;1219585]Can't we just do a tank job? Do we really need 6 wins this year?
Fuck this shit.[/quote]

This team was 1-6 last year after Alex went down, you really think Keenum will get 6 wins? Not unless we hit major pay dirt in the draft for players that make an immediate impact.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

Case Keenum and Alex Smith have very similar numbers from 2018:

Grade:
Keenum (70.0) Smith (70.2)

Yards per attempt:
Keenum (6.6) Smith (6.6)

Passer rating under pressure:
Keenum (52.2) Smith (52.0)

Passer rating when clean:
Keenum (94.9) Smith (98.2)

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

hoping we still can get rosen as long it,s not for our 1 round pick,plus they skins front office might be thinking that alex coming back next year considering all the money we owe him ,but i think that ship has sailed and his carreer is over even if he doesn,t have that surgery

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1219617]Rosen is still very much in play folks

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yes he is, once the deal is done the Cards trade Rosen to the Skins for Keenum who has a good connection with the Cards new coach .

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1219628]I'm glad the Redskins didn't trade for Rosen...that would have meant giving up a higher draft pick....I'm okay with the trade for Keenum...Keenum will only account for 3.5 million dollars against the cap....in reviewing his career statistics and highlights he'll throw more touchdowns than interceptions for damn sure...[B]the front office knows what they are doing...[/B]hopefully Brett Rypien will still be available in the 3rd round.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=Giantone;1219639]Yes he is, once the deal is done the Cards trade Rosen to the Skins for Keenum who has a good connection with the Cards new coach .[/quote]

Some say that sounds crazy but it's really not.

A) The Cards are taking Murray
B) They will need a solid backup (Keenum and KK know each other very well)
C) Case stated that he wants to play in AZ after Flacco was traded to Den
D) Rosen fits Jay's scheme very well
E) Having Case as a emergency back-up plan in case Rosen falls through is smart.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=Giantone;1219639]Yes he is, once the deal is done the Cards trade Rosen to the Skins for Keenum who has a good connection with the Cards new coach .[/quote]

If the Cards wanted him they would have tried to get him. Keenum is here to stay I think, at least for this year. I think the Cards wanted to play things out with Rosen and the Skins couldn't wait.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1219642]If the Cards wanted him they would have tried to get him. Keenum is here to stay I think, at least for this year. I think the Cards wanted to play things out with Rosen and the Skins couldn't wait.[/quote]

You can't do that if you are the Cards, that would incline that Murray is for sure the #1 pick. They have to have leverage in a Rosen deal.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

This move just affirms my belief that you guys will take a QB early in this draft. Case Keenums role will be that of the old 'bridge' QB.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1219645]This move just affirms my belief that you guys will take a QB early in this draft. Case Keenums role will be that of the old 'bridge' QB.[/quote]

Either way Rosen / Lock / Jones.

You are correct, a QB will be drafted or brought in. Case is 31 Years old

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1219610]I'm probably the only one who likes this trade. Redskins didn't give shit to get him, he has thrown over 3k yards 3 years in a row (almost 4k last year), he took Minnesota to the playoffs. Denver's OL sucked last year not as good as Minnesota's 2 years ago.

[url]https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KeenCa00.htm[/url]

This is how you help Keenum:

With the 15th pick you trade down, get extra picks.

1st and 2nd rounds either you get a stud OG or WR, with the extra second rounder you get your young QB.

Rounds 3-7 nothing but D and TE, OLB, S, CB, MLB.

With drafting an OG, this line is going to be awesome with the exception of Moses who needs to get his shit together and protect Colt or Keenum whoever wins the QB competition.[/quote]

I also like the Keenum trade. Keenum is a good stop gap and has playoff experience as he has been deep into the playoffs. That is a plus.
Rosen on the other hand has very little NFL experience and has a long way to way go. I am not sure why some think Rosen is a sure thing?

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

Nobody thinks Rosen is a "sure thing". But his ceiling is a hell of a lot higher than journeymen like Colt or Case.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

I think Redskins will draft any of the following in the first 3
Rounds, whoever is available:

Jones
Finley
Rypien
Auburn QB (forgot his name)

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=Giantone;1219639]Yes he is, once the deal is done the Cards trade Rosen to the Skins for Keenum who has a good connection with the Cards new coach .[/quote]

Help me understand how this makes sense? If the Cards wanted Keenum, why not just trade with Denver for him? Why use Washington as a middle man? Keenum is in the final year of his contract, so it is a one year deal regardless.

Why trade Rosen whose salary is strictly enforced by the rookie salary pool, to only absorb a veteran contract?

Keenums 2019 salary is $3.5m. Rosen is $570k.

Sorry, but a trade to Arizona by way of Washington does not add up.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

Skins could still trade for Rosen, I don't think Keenum comes into play with a potential deal at all.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=MTK;1219650]Nobody thinks Rosen is a "sure thing". But his ceiling is a hell of a lot higher than journeymen like Colt or Case.[/quote]

Talking in facts and not in wishful player ceilings:
We got Case for cheap and he will be a stop gap QB, [B]that is all[/B]. This is a small addition with no major subtraction to the Redskins. Even Case's salary is ok.
Case is better than Colt and JJ. For fucking sure.

At this point in Rosen's young and inexperienced career, Case has more of an ability to play now in the NFL and at a higher level than Rosen while Rosen acclimates. Stop gap.
In the past Case has thrived when working with a good offensive coordinator/Qb's coach. Gruden is supposed to be a good offensive coach.
I am not saying Case will suddenly be an All Star under Gruden, but there is a history of upside to Case's play when working with good coaching and a good offensive line and running game in front of him.
Having said that I still believe Case is nothing but a stop gap QB with experience a little bit of upside compared to Colt and JJ.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1219654]Help me understand how this makes sense? If the Cards wanted Keenum, why not just trade with Denver for him? Why use Washington as a middle man? Keenum is in the final year of his contract, so it is a one year deal regardless.

Why trade Rosen whose salary is strictly enforced by the rookie salary pool, to only absorb a veteran contract?

Keenums 2019 salary is $3.5m. Rosen is $570k.

Sorry, but a trade to Arizona by way of Washington does not add up.[/quote]

Maybe AZ didn't want to give up picks, skins could deal Case and our 4 for Rosen

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

Way I see it there are only 2 scenarios here.

1) Keenum is trade bait for AZ if they do want to ship Rosen and get a QB they trust in Keenum. If AZ were leaving us hanging on a respectable deal for Rosen then it makes sense to call their bluff, but with a relatively cheap option. Keenum doesn't have a downside in this scenario.
2) Keenum is going into camp as a straight battler for #1 with McCoy, and we either draft a reasonably high round QB (2 or 3) or we go lower for a cheap rookie that could sit behind whoever wins the battle. I can't see us doing this deal and then using up our #1 on a QB, especially with our need on the OL. I say they will trade picks to get an extra 2nd and maybe 3rd, then go OL, OL, QB then the rest. If the rookie shows potential we cut Keenum/McCoy free next offseason and if (and big if) Smith comes back, the rookie has a year under him. If the rookie doesn't cut it, we go QB 1st round next year. Keenum doesn't come off that good a deal in this scenario (I'd have gone with McCoy and risked tanking myself) but he's still pretty cheap and should be a serviceable starter for 1 season. I honestly think in a straight battle McCoy is out the door.

And I agree with the point that Keenum is not a turnover machine. That is key if you want him in as a 'bridge' QB. It's not a great deal, but its far from a bad one.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1219668]Maybe AZ didn't want to give up picks, skins could deal Case and our 4 for Rosen[/quote]

Skins do not have a 4th round pick. You have 5 total draft picks this year. Rounds 1,2,3,5 & 7.

What is everyones infatuation with twisting the Keenum trade into a deal for Rosen? In the highly unlikely event that Washington trade Keenum to AZ for Rosen, that means the Redskins would have made 3 major trades for the QB position in 2 years. That would have to be some kind of record.

Looks to be that you've acquired Keenum on a 1 year rental and his cap number almost matches McCoy. Very low at $3.5m. You draft a QB in this draft, and because of the rookie salary pool working in your favor, you can afford to carry 3 QBs on the roster, absorb the cap hit of Alex Smith ($20m) and still have some working room to sign a free agent or two. 3m for Colt, 3.5m for Case and about 570k for a rookie. Add that to Alex Smiths hit, it totals to 27m wrapped up in the QB position. I do not think you could improve that. Rogers & Carr make that alone in one season.

The other option is to 'flop from Fromm', who is predicted to be the 1st overall pick in the 2020 draft.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1219670]Skins do not have a 4th round pick. [B]You have 5 total draft picks this year. Rounds 1,2,3,5 & 7[/B].

What is everyones infatuation with twisting the Keenum trade into a deal for Rosen? In the highly unlikely event that Washington trade Keenum to AZ for Rosen, that means the Redskins would have made 3 major trades for the QB position in 2 years. That would have to be some kind of record.

Looks to be that you've acquired Keenum on a 1 year rental and his cap number almost matches McCoy. Very low at $3.5m. You draft a QB in this draft, and because of the rookie salary pool working in your favor, you can afford to carry 3 QBs on the roster, absorb the cap hit of Alex Smith ($20m)and still have some working room to sign a free agent or two.

The other option is to 'flop from Fromm', who is predicted to be the 1st overall pick in the 2020 draft.[/quote]

No, total of 9 picks

1.15
2.46
3.76
3.96
5.153
5.173
6.206
7.222
7.253

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

A bit surprised i'm the only person who loves this move.

- After last season, we know we need to carry 3 active QBs in the season and currently we only have colt.
- We didn't give up anything of consequence for Keenum
- His 3.5MM cap his is honestly CHEAP for a veteran of his ability. For comparison, Bridgewater, another veteran many have suggested could have come her, made 6M to be a backup last year. Keenum is comparable, if not better than Bridgewater
- He is very Colt-esque in ability in playing style, so in the scenario one is the starter and the other is the backup, there would not be much drop-off in talent.
- IF the season goes south, we're likely cleaning house. we have no commitment in 2020 to Colt or Keenum. So its not like we are saddling the 2020 coach with Keenum's contract
- IF the season goes well, and Keenum is part of that, it means he's played well and we are in good position to retain him
- Keenum doesn't negatively impact our ability to trade for rosen or draft a QB early this year.
- His being on the roster means we don't need to feel pressured to trade more than we want for rosen or draft a QB higher than we need to. In the worst case scenario in which we aren't able to do either, we have two comparable and capable, if not exciting, starters. If we haven't made big moves for another QB, then it means we've used that draft capital and salary cap space to build a solid team around them.

Any way i look at it, Keenum is an all around WIN for this team and i LOVE the move. So for those who voted differently in the poll, please tell me what i'm missing.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1219670]Skins do not have a 4th round pick. You have 5 total draft picks this year. Rounds 1,2,3,5 & 7.

What is everyones infatuation with twisting the Keenum trade into a deal for Rosen? In the highly unlikely event that Washington trade Keenum to AZ for Rosen, that means the Redskins would have made 3 major trades for the QB position in 2 years. That would have to be some kind of record.

Looks to be that you've acquired Keenum on a 1 year rental and his cap number almost matches McCoy. Very low at $3.5m. You draft a QB in this draft, and because of the rookie salary pool working in your favor, you can afford to carry 3 QBs on the roster, absorb the cap hit of Alex Smith ($20m) and still have some working room to sign a free agent or two. 3m for Colt, 3.5m for Case and about 570k for a rookie. Add that to Alex Smiths hit, it totals to 27m wrapped up in the QB position. I do not think you could improve that. Rogers & Carr make that alone in one season.

The other option is to 'flop from Fromm', who is predicted to be the 1st overall pick in the 2020 draft.[/quote]

We have nine picks (although you are correct about no fourth rounder): [url]https://www.redskins.com/news/redskins-awarded-four-compensatory-picks-in-2019-draft[/url]

Also, as opposed to "flop for Fromm", I also think "tuck tail for Tua" is going to be a popular option.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

I don't see a trade for Rosen now. I see Keenum as the starter to open the season until they decide whatever rookie we draft is ready to play.

Give me Lock in the 1st or Finley/Rypien/Grier in the 3rd or later.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1219674]I don't see a trade for Rosen now. I see Keenum as the starter to open the season until they decide whatever rookie we draft is ready to play.

Give me Lock in the 1st or Finley/Rypien/Grier in the 3rd or later.[/quote]

I think Colt still has the leg up on starting based on his experience in the offense.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=Defensewins;1219667]Talking in facts and not in wishful player ceilings:
We got Case for cheap and he will be a stop gap QB, [B]that is all[/B]. This is a small addition with no major subtraction to the Redskins. Even Case's salary is ok.
Case is better than Colt and JJ. For fucking sure.

At this point in Rosen's young and inexperienced career, Case has more of an ability to play now in the NFL and at a higher level than Rosen while Rosen acclimates. Stop gap.
In the past Case has thrived when working with a good offensive coordinator/Qb's coach. Gruden is supposed to be a good offensive coach.
I am not saying Case will suddenly be an All Star under Gruden, but there is a history of upside to Case's play when working with good coaching and a good offensive line and running game in front of him.
Having said that I still believe Case is nothing but a stop gap QB with experience a little bit of upside compared to Colt and JJ.[/quote]

I don't disagree with anything you're saying but wouldn't it be nice to have a young arm in the mix too like Rosen or a draft pick?

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1219674]I don't see a trade for Rosen now. I see Keenum as the starter to open the season until they decide whatever rookie we draft is ready to play.

Give me Lock in the 1st or Finley/Rypien/Grier in the 3rd or later.[/quote]

I'd take Grier in the 3rd but he's Case 2.0, literally almost identical playing styles and size.

The only way I see us not getting Rosen is if another team (Miami or NYG) Has offered a 1st, and I don't see that happening.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1219674]I don't see a trade for Rosen now. I see Keenum as the starter to open the season until they decide whatever rookie we draft is ready to play.

Give me Lock in the 1st or Finley/Rypien/Grier in the 3rd or later.[/quote]

I doubt Lock makes it out of the top 5 (due to trades) and he certainly won't make it past Denver at 10. Are you suggesting we trade up to get him?

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1219681]I doubt Lock makes it out of the top 5 (due to trades) and he certainly won't make it past Denver at 10. Are you suggesting we trade up to get him?[/quote]

I'm not sure Lock is a top 5 pick, Murray , Haskins and Jones could all go before him. Either way I would not trade up for any QB in this class outside of Murray

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=MTK;1219676]I think Colt still has the leg up on starting based on his experience in the offense.[/quote]

Yeah. He definitely could be the starter. Just replace Keenum with Colt and the rest of my statement would stay the same. Think we have 3 QBs on the roster this year.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1219681]I doubt Lock makes it out of the top 5 (due to trades) and he certainly won't make it past Denver at 10. Are you suggesting we trade up to get him?[/quote]

No, definitely don't want to move up. If Lock isn't there at 15 you fill one of our many other holes with BPA. If we don't get Lock I'd prefer White or Burns (Sweat too, but he'll be gone by 15).

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=MTK;1219677]I don't disagree with anything you're saying but wouldn't it be nice to have a young arm in the mix too like Rosen or a draft pick?[/quote]

Yes, we are way over due to draft a young QB. In fact I used to love the practice of Beathard/Casserly drafting a QB almost every year in the mid to late rounds. Why not take a shot at QB fairly regularly in the draft?
Mark Rypien 6th round pick.
Stan Humphries 6th round pick.
Babe Laufenberg 6th round pick.
Jay Schroeder 3rd rounder (later traded to Raiders and we got Pro Bowl LT Jim Lachey).

I am against paying a high price (#15 pick) to get Rosen.
I like Rosen's potential, but I watch Rosen I am not convinced I see a NFL franchise player or player good enough to give up #15 or multiple picks. Yes, he has played on some shitty teams but individually his play is good, not great.
i think i would rather draft a 2nd round or lower QB. Not giving up a ton to take a chance, just like we would take a chance on Rosen.
#15 pick needs to be a blue chip Offensive Lineman or edge rusher which this draft has several and starts day one!. Day one starter is a prerequisite.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

Is there any reason people keep mentioning Rypien other than that his uncle played for us? I'm no scout, but I don't really feel he's an NFL player.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1219699]Is there any reason people keep mentioning Rypien other than that his uncle played for us? I'm no scout, but I don't really feel he's an NFL player.[/quote]

It's pretty much that, he's a solid college QB that played in a weak conference. Not saying he can't play in the NFL, he graded out well this season, was top 20 IN Yards per target , top 10 graded against the Blitz.

I think he's a 4th rd guy.

Re: Case Keenum to the Skins
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1219699]Is there any reason people keep mentioning Rypien other than that his uncle played for us? I'm no scout, but I don't really feel he's an NFL player.[/quote]

The good thing is if you draft a player like him if he doesn't workout as a starter he can still be a young cheap backup. Especially with Colt and Keenum being FAs after this year. I'm probably biased by nostalgia, but I think he can definitely at least be a serviceable backup.