Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

The modern day star athlete rarely goes to jail. Taylor may face charges but will end up with probation and community service. Rosenhaus and his lawyers will make sure of that if the charges even hold up. Hell if you are an NFL star--you can kill someone nowadays and get off (Leonard Little).

Me or you point a gun at someone=we're going to jail.

Sean Taylor ends up in bed with a dead hooker=probation and community service...

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]I used to live in FL....if he is convicted, FL Law has a minimum sentence of 5 yrs for those crimes commited with a handgun.

He is SCREWED if convicted!!![/QUOTE]


It doesn't sound like he actually committed a crime with a gun, he used his fists and someone else used a bat, he initially used a gun to scare this individual but doesn't sound like it was used to actually beat anyone up, if he knew that this individual actually stole his vehicle than the guy probably got what he deserved. Who knows if he has a permit for the gun, his dad is a cop so if he had half a brain he should, but correct me if I am wrong aren't you allowed to carry in florida? Anyway this is a far cry from a drive by firing random shot's into a house.

This is what it sound's like it will start stacking up as, now that the police are involved they will probably find out who stole Taylors vehicle, if it turns out it was this individual it will be very tough to make charges stick to Taylor, especially if this or those individuals are the eye witness's to him pointing a gun at them.

Judging from the way Taylor has handled himself since he has arrived this may not be as bad as it initially seems, he doesn't let anyone know what's going on with him, we all thought he would be a hold out last season and yet he was one of the first guy's in camp, he was busted for DUI but never convicted, he defiently flirt's with disaster but seem's to alway's have an out, I have a feeling this isn't going to be all that bad for Taylor legally, the worst thing that will happen is the fact that whether or not he get's into legal trouble he is involved in another problem situation that makes him look bad.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

offiss,
dude flashing a gun at a guy is a crime...hate to break it to you, and since it involves said gun it is also a gun related cime. you can't just threaten people with a gat.
btw, do you think he has a concealed weapons permit or the gun is registered? doubt it.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Assault

Threat to inflict injury with an apparent ability to do so. Also, any intentional display of force that would give the victim reason to fear or expect immediate bodily harm.

Assault = Crime
Assault with a weapon = really bad crime

you don't have to shoot, hit, bite someone to be charged with assault. using a weapon to intimidate or threaten is assault with a deadly weapon.
If he's been charged with felony aggravated assault, that is a min one year sentence. Add the gun to the equation and the stakes go up. Of course, I am sure he has a great lawyer on retainer.
Don't embarass the organization? I'd say this is pretty embarassing.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

well he's been released on bond and they are gonna set up a date later, but i hope he takes this time to come back to camp, apologize for making the redskins look bad, and use whatever free time he has left to workout with the team. if i were him i would drop all contract renegotiations (sp), and try to salvage what's left of this offseason before he possilbly goes to jail for an extended period of time.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Washington Post reported today (Sunday) that he's only a person of interest and don't know if he was a victim, witness, or if he participated. I hope this is false!

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins]offiss,
dude flashing a gun at a guy is a crime...hate to break it to you, and since it involves said gun it is also a gun related cime. you can't just threaten people with a gat.
btw, do you think he has a concealed weapons permit or the gun is registered? doubt it.[/QUOTE]


The question is who are the witness's that he threatened with a gun? It may very well be the same people who stole his vehicle? If that turn's out to be the case Taylor will look like the victom not the perp.

Second, pointing a gun is a crime yes, but he didn't use it to inflict harm, the crime is the fact that he apparently pointed a gun.

Who said the gun was concealed? obviously it wasen't, if all this is true.

Judging from what I have read in this article I doubt there will be any charges pertaining to him owning or carrying a gun.


The first thing his lawer will do is turn everything around on this individual, and if it's found that this guy did steal his vehicle he has no creditability, but the fact is we know very little right now so we are going to have to wait and see.


What this will probably come to is this, if this individual or individuals did steal his vehicle he will probably get off, if it turn's out they didn't steal his SUV then he has a real problem.


[url]http://crime.about.com/od/guns/f/gunlaw_fl.htm[/url]

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

We've got a lot of speculation and few facts.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

inflicting harm does not matter. threatening to inflict harm is aggravated assault. aggravated assault is a felony. he has been charged with aggravated assault and released on bond. if indeed these guys stole his ATV's (not his car) and he had a permit for a weapon (yet to be determined) you still can't flash a gun at someone and then come back later and beat some guy up. it dosn't matter if they stole his crap, you can't brandish a weapon unless it's self defense. the fact that he left the scene then came back and beat some dude does not ring of self defense BUT aggravated assault. doesn't mean he'll be found guilty or go to jail. it DOES mean, he is a total jackass.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Facts: "Taylor was accompanied by defense attorney Fred Moldovan when he surrendered on charges of aggravated assault with a firearm and simple battery, police said.

According to a police statement, Taylor pointed a gun at an unidentified person Wednesday during a dispute over two all-terrain vehicles he claimed were stolen. Taylor left the scene but returned about 10 minutes later and punched one person"
ESPN

That's the police statement. He pointed a gun (fact), beat some guy up (fact) and was charged with aggravated assault and simple battery (fact). There is not much speculation in saying the guy is facing some serious charges.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[url]http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8536477[/url]

Redwagonskins,

You're right that he can't flash a weapon and point it at someone unless there's a viable claim of self-defense. However, his returning to the scene doesn't necessarily destroy his self-defense claim (if there is one). If he felt threatened and there are facts to back up that claim, he might have a self-defense defense to the charge. Moreover, returning to the scene and hitting someone isn't aggravated assault - it's simple battery (hence the charge of simple battery).

You're also right that he's a total jackass (based on what we now know). But, we have few facts on which to base a judgment about how strong the State's evidence is, what Taylor did, what Taylor was responding to, in what circumstances he brandished a weapon, and in what circumstances he hit someone. Until I get more information about the whole incident, I still reserve final judgment about the situation and Taylor. My preliminary feeling though is that you are right and he's a total jackass.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

The speculation is we are only hearing 1 side of the story, how do we know this guy didn't raise his fist at Taylor first, the fact that he came back doesn't look good but a good lawyer can turn anything, perhaps the individual said come back and I will give your atv's who know's, it's garbage that he's even involved in this, but there are 2 sides, and as usual Taylor hasen't said boo about his side.


This kid need's to get out of Florida pronto.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

I think what gets me about the guy is that he mopes through camp last year and the first few games because he isn't starting. He dosen't return ANY calls from Gibbs. He skips workouts. He's already had trouble off the field with the DUI (I know, I know, he was let off). He wants a new contract. He changes his number 4 times (36, 21, 36, 21...). He gets arrested for assault and battery. And the organization says they did this huge background check on him. So either this pattern of behavior has emerged in the last year or the background check was done by the weapons of mass destruction intelligence team.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

TAYLOR'S CAREER COULD BE OVER.
He is in some deep shit friends. Looks like he might do 10-15. It's a damn shame because this kid really had potential to be one of the great ones. Hope we can get some of that money back.

[url]http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm[/url]

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Well, if this episode causes his agent to advise ST to shut his ass up and report to practice ASAP, then maybe some good can come out of it.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Maybe the Skins can work some kind of work release program with the state of FL.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS TANK]TAYLOR'S CAREER COULD BE OVER.
He is in some deep shit friends. Looks like he might do 10-15. It's a damn shame because this kid really had potential to be one of the great ones. Hope we can get some of that money back.

[url="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

In any case, what ST did was not right. BUT, if it ends up that the guys he either pulled the gun on, or shot at were not the right guys, what prosecuter would let him off or cut a good deal? If he picked the wrong guys, he's toast.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

It's a good thing his agent had his best interest's at heart, advising this kid to stay in florida so he can run around with his hommies was a grand idea.


Taylor is the classic case of an individual who can't live with money, now that he has it he think's he's invincible.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins]Facts: "Taylor was accompanied by defense attorney Fred Moldovan when he surrendered on charges of aggravated assault with a firearm and simple battery, police said.

According to a police statement, Taylor pointed a gun at an unidentified person Wednesday during a dispute over two all-terrain vehicles he claimed were stolen. Taylor left the scene but returned about 10 minutes later and punched one person"
ESPN

That's the police statement. He pointed a gun (fact), beat some guy up (fact) and was charged with aggravated assault and simple battery (fact). There is not much speculation in saying the guy is facing some serious charges.[/QUOTE]
They are not "(fact)" until they are proven in court. The police statement said Ray Lewis stabbed 2 people. The police statement said that O.J. murdered his wife and a friend. The police statement said that Robert Black murdered his wife. For that matter, the police statement said that Sean Taylor was driving drunk, appreared intoxicated and smelled of alcohol, how did that turn out? Until the jury speaks, nothing is "fact".

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]They are not "(fact)" until they are proven in court. The police statement said Ray Lewis stabbed 2 people. The police statement said that O.J. murdered his wife and a friend. The police statement said that Robert Black murdered his wife. Until the jury speaks, nothing is "fact".[/QUOTE]

The jury doesn't decide FACT. They decide if a person could be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Ray, O.J. and Blake know those facts, not the jury; AND not guilty does not mean they didn't do it.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Just curious, by law, Taylor can't leave the state of Florida while on bond can he?

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

I can't believe all this for a dumb ATV. He could have mine if i knew he was going to do this. anyway at first i heard he shot the house but all the new reports just say he aimed a gun at someone. I am sure he aimed the gun, don't get me wrong, but don't you think that he will get off if it is just the word of those who stole his atvs and those peoples friends, against Taylor's, who is having a first offense( i think) and his top of the line lawyer. To me the worst is the embarrassment that the team must face. He really needs to come back now and show the fans that he isn't a lost cause. If he did shoot the gun then he deserves to go to jail but if not i am glad he didn't do anything stupid or he would be facing some real time. He restrained himself, i am happy that he did, his friend is the one who chased some guy with a bat. and truly i don't care if he did punch anyone. Many of us have had disagreements in the past and it has gotten physical, he punched someone, big deal. The gun is the issue and if he didn't shoot the house i am not to worried. He is charged with a felony but a plee agreement with lessen those charges and a big fine and communittee service will result.

The people he assulted better have stolen his ATVs!!

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

The facts, from an updated WPost article:

[COLOR=DarkRed]Washington Redskins safety Sean Taylor posted bond and was released from police custody at 11:32 Saturday night after surrendering to authorities and being charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a firearm, a felony, and one count of simple battery, a misdemeanor, according to police and detention center reports. Accompanied by his lawyer, Fred Maldovan, Taylor paid a bond of $16,500 at the Turner, Gilford and Knight Correctional Facility, a source said, and no arraignment date has been set yet.

Taylor, 22, the fifth overall pick in the 2004 draft, was arrested in connection with an incident that occurred Wednesday night in Miami, where he resides. According to a police report, Taylor and a co-defendant, Charles Caughman, 19, of Baltimore, drove up to a residence in a blue 2005 GMC Yukon Denali truck and Taylor pointed a gun at two individuals he believed had stolen two all-terrain vehicles from him and demanded they be returned. No shots were fired and Taylor and Caughman left the scene before returning 10 minutes later.

At this point, police say Taylor, whom the team lists as 6-foot-3, 230 pounds, exited the vehicle and began assaulting one victim, swinging and missing with a closed fist before a fight ensued. Caughman, who was arrested and charged with aggravated assault on the night of the incident, chased the other victim with a baseball bat before he and Taylor fled the scene, according to the police report. The incident took place less than two miles from Taylor's residence in Miami. Police have not been able to determine if the victims were involved in the theft of Taylor's vehicles.[/COLOR]


I wonder if his "friend" is the main source of this incident report--maybe he's trying to save his ass by giving them Sean. But still, my guess is Sean pointed the gun. But given the nature of proof, the cost of trials, and Taylor's celebrity staus (and high-paid lawyer), he'll probably plead down to something more minor. But whether it will be a felony or not, we'll see. What a friggin mess. Sean, buddy, you're a millionaire. If someone steals your ATV, have them arrested. And then buy a new one (or five). Now your life may be over... :Flush:

[URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/05/AR2005060500742.html]Redskins' Taylor Posts Bond After Arrest[/URL]

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]The jury doesn't decide FACT. They decide if a person could be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Ray, O.J. and Blake know those facts, not the jury; AND not guilty does not mean they didn't do it.[/QUOTE]
So then how can you state the details of Taylors case as 'fact'? Jury acquital also means that they are free, which is all as fans we really care about, right? Let's be honest, we don't care about how this impacts Taylor or the victim, we care about how it impacts the Redskins.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

After reading that, goodluck proving he flashed a gun. That's going to be nearly impossible to prove. From the sound of it he swung and missed... yeah. He'll be at camp.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]The jury doesn't decide FACT. They decide if a person could be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Ray, O.J. and Blake know those facts, not the jury; AND not guilty does not mean they didn't do it.[/QUOTE]

Actually, the jury does decide fact - for purposes of the law. That is why they are referred to as the "factfinder." Not guilty doesn't mean they didn't do it, but again, as far as the law is concerned it does mean innocence.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

PROOF THAT WE SHOULDN'T REACH ANY CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE INCIDENT OR TAYLOR'S FUTURE WITH THE TEAM:

We heard he fired a gun at a house. Then we heard he fired a gun at a car. Now we are hearing he didn't fire the weapon at all.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Honestly, I really don't care what the Skins do with this kid. If he is here great. If he is gone great. Doesn't bother me. He has shown zero passion for this team in my opinion. Everyone is busting there ass at mini camps and ota's. But he has to bicker bout a rookie contract. So he is working out at the U of Miami. Give me a break. You know these guys say they are working out down there. But probally work out there one or two times a week. Then just go and party and do whatever else it is that they do. Like wave guns around, shoot at houses, or whatever else they have done in the past. Literally like the only player from Miami that has been drafted in the first round the past few years not to get in troublr or do something stupid, is Vince Wilfork of New England.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

Here is what the Florida Statutes say about assault and aggravated assault:

[B]784.011 Assault[/B]
(1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a [I]misdemeanor[/I] of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


[B]784.021 Aggravated assault (What Taylor has been charged with): [/B]

(1) An "aggravated assault" is an assault:

(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or

(b) With an intent to commit a felony.

Based on the "facts" known to us at this time, Taylor is being charged under 784.021 (1)(a). To prove that Taylor is guilty, the State would need to show:
(1) that Taylor brandished a firearm
(2) that Taylor threatened (by word or act) to do harm to the victim
(3) that the victim saw, or knew of, the firearm and reasonably percieved a threat to his person.

The hurdles in convicting Taylor of the above-referenced charge are (1) proving that Taylor brandished a weapon and (2) that Taylor brandished the weapon in connection with threatening acts or words. If the only witnesses to the "incident" are Taylor, his friend, and the victim(s), it comes down to "he said," "she said." It's hard to get a conviction based solely on the testimony of the alleged victim - especially IF that victim is a "shady character" who might have recently taken part in another crime.

A jury MIGHT be sympathetic to Taylor - who just had possessions taken from him and used a firearm when confronting the people who had just stolen property from Taylor.

Moreover, Taylor's "self-defense" claim could be that he was looking for his stolen property, he knew that he might run into the people who stole it, and oftentimes such criminals are armed - so he took along a weapon.

Based on what I currently know, my guess is this that due to the aforementioned hurdles the DA will need to jump to get a felony conviction, the parties will be plead down to Assault (as opposed to Aggravated Assault) - which is a misdemeanor. But, it's too early to tell.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]PROOF THAT WE SHOULDN'T REACH ANY CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE INCIDENT OR TAYLOR'S FUTURE WITH THE TEAM:

We heard he fired a gun at a house. Then we heard he fired a gun at a car. Now we are hearing he didn't fire the weapon at all.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Once again we should learn a valuable lesson here, and that's not to jump to conclusions until all the facts are known.

He could be guilty of something... looks like right now it's still not clear what that may be.

Until we know more we should hold off on the "cut/trade Taylor" comments.

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

I hope you're right, RF. But sometimes you get an agressive DA who wants to make a name for him/herself, and these things go a lot farther than they would if a celeb wasn't involved. So the thing might drag on. As for proving the case to a jury, it's all in the witnesses credibility. Taylor's string of "misjudgments" preceeds him. Even if the accusing witnesses are of questionable character, the alleged assailant is as well.

And none of this tells us what Gibbs is going to do.

What a frggin mess.

Best result: plead down to the misdemeanor, Taylor is "scared straight" and is a model citizen for the rest of his long probowl career. (Maybe if I imagine this hard enough, it will happen! :party-smi )

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Agreed. Once again we should learn a valuable lesson here, and that's not to jump to conclusions until all the facts are known.

He could be guilty of something... looks like right now it's still not clear what that may be.

Until we know more we should hold off on the "cut/trade Taylor" comments.[/QUOTE]
Thank you Matty!

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

I'd love to not jump to conclusions with this idiot but his past actions only kill his credibility. If this was Darrell Green I'd look at his past and say "no way, it's a set-up or a misunderstanding". With ST, the reaction is "yup, what an idiot". It is not jumping to conclusions to get in the guys' S**t for getting in this situation in the first place. The fact that he's getting arrested in the first place is an indictment on his judgement. His ATVs may or may not have been stolen. So what? Buy yourself a new one and go to the cops. He's got the $$$. Or maybe the Redskins are to blame for not renegotiating his contract and giving him the money he needs to replace his ATV fleet. :)
Say what you will about guilt/innocence and jumping to conclusions; all I can say is if it smells like a turd, it's a turd.

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins]I'd love to not jump to conclusions with this idiot but his past actions only kill his credibility. If this was Darrell Green I'd look at his past and say "no way, it's a set-up or a misunderstanding". With ST, the reaction is "yup, what an idiot". It is not jumping to conclusions to get in the guys S**t for getting in this situation in the first place. The fact that he's getting arrested in the first place is an inditement on his judgement. .[/QUOTE]

Hit the nail on the head. His past is where my judgement is coming from. He'll get his legal day in court, but he's guilty til innocent as far as I am concerned.

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

hey at least there's something to talk about

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

Any Warpath lawyers on board? :oink:

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=redrock-skins]Hit the nail on the head. His past is where my judgement is coming from. He'll get his legal day in court, [U]but he's guilty til innocent as far as I am concerned.[/QUOTE] Exactly!!!! In sports you are guilty until proven innocent. Prime example is baseball and steroids. These players are in the lime light so much that they are held to a higher standard.

Re: Talyor 2 Be Charged 4 Aggravated Assault
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]So then how can you state the details of Taylors case as 'fact'? Jury acquital also means that they are free, which is all as fans we really care about, right? Let's be honest, we don't care about how this impacts Taylor or the victim, we care about how it impacts the Redskins.[/QUOTE]

Paintrain, I have not tried to tell anyone on this board what happened in this case. I don't know except for what I have read (just like everyone else). The problem I had was with your statement about jury's deciding fact. That statement was just plain incorrect. That's like saying that because he got off on the DUI charge he wasn't legally drunk. Whoever beleives that is an idiot. He had the money to pay a good lawyer. Period.

Now, you make a new statement about what "we" care about. So, then how can you state the details of what I care about? You don't.

To be honest, I want to know if the guys that he did this to (according to the reports) actaully did steal the ATV. If they did, I will feel very different than I will if they didn't. And, it does not matter how it impacts the skins if he did this to innocent people. I worry about society in general over the team. If he did it to innocent people, he should go down for it. If got the right guys, he made a mistake, but they got what they deserved. If would have just called the cops things would have been easier on us all.

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

I need to add to the speculation:

question, When were the police called?

If a man comes to my house, pulls a gun on me and leaves, I'm going to call the police.

since taylor came back 10 minutes later and the police werent there, can i assume they didnt call the police after they were assaulted?

let's not forget that people try to extort money from athletes all the time.

Re: Sean Taylor Charged with Aggravated Assault
 

i hope he doesn't get imprisoned or anything like that. we can't say anything until the whole trial is over. until then, i hope taylor realizes where he should be, and i hope this erases any thoughts about him holding out or doing bad thigns in the future.