Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=mooby;1259606]Lotta doom and gloom after yesterday.

We found out how good this team could be in week 1, now we found out how bad this team could be in a week 2.

It will be a year of growing pains, and hopefully progress. But in weeks where our offensive line looks like trash I don't expect to see competitive football. Haskins is never going to be a guy that can succeed in spite of his o-line.[/quote]

This. I think some of us have a reasonable take on what's likely this year and some have just too much expectation.

Firstly talking about Herbert having a good first game is dumb for 3 reasons; 1) he had 4 years of starting in college (though he was good from the get go), 2) he has an established O around him with a good OL and some of the best skill position players around him and 3) he still made dumb decisions. His field position awareness was lacking; he unnecessarily threw the ball into traffic while running when he was 3 yards from the 1st down marker with nobody in front of him and they were in the lead. And his INT was ugly.

And no QB is going to light up the scoreboard with a Swiss cheese OL. I only caught the plays that they showed on Redzone, but I saw multiple plays where he had less than 2 seconds to pass. On a designed quick pass that's OK, but on 3rd and 10, if you can't give your QB at least 3 seconds you are most likely to be 4th and 10 or worse. Leaving 2 extra blockers in isn't the answer because any decent secondary should shut down 3 WR's all day, especially when only rushing 4 or 5. The OL has to improve if we're to get more than 4-6 wins.

And I can't blame the D. We still got 3 sacks (albeit only 1 from a DL) against a QB who's like trying to trying to catch mist. What is a little concerning is that Drake managed over 4y per carry, though I believe he was largely bottled up in the 1st half? Murray getting big yardage isn't a surprise as most of his running yardage comes off broken plays. I do however agree that its surprising we didn't spy him more. Tough one really because if you take an LB or DB out of coverage to spy him, Hopkins etc. will have a field day...

I'm taking some positives from this, and seeing them as what RR will build on as the season goes forward and into the offseason decisions:

1) McLaurin is the real deal, the one shining light on O.
Sims is a good enough #2 (forget Inman) or #3 if we can get better #2 in the offseason. I'd build a WR crew around them and ditch everyone else as better guys come in.
2) Gibson is a keeper, maybe McKissick. I see why RR thought AP was a luxury we didn't need. He wouldn't do better behind this OL and he'd be taking reps from guys that should be the future.
3) CY is the real deal AND he elevates the rest of the DL. We need to find LB's and DB's to back up the DL play. Fuller and Moreland should be the only ones with anything like a guarantee to be here next year.
4) Haskins hasn't thrown an INT yet; for all his inaccuracy he's trying to put the ball where only his guy can catch it, albeit that he's not doing a great job. But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt through a lack of experience. I think he can and will improve (though it may take a revamped OL).

Re: Cards postgame
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiZa5wAWAAAVWeD?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

Not good

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1259572]This is the bottom line:

The defense played well enough to win.

The offense did not play well enough to win.

The end.[/quote]

This. The game is a great way to bring us all back to the earth... Rivera already said last week that it will take the offense a while to mesh together. If we win some games this year, it will be because of our defense. We need to do everything we can do to rebuild the Oline this offseason.

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John Clayton said on the morning drive today that if the draft happened today he'd go

Murray
Mindshew
Lock
Jones
Haskins

Can't argue that

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DH was not drafted by this staff - fair or not he isn't getting a long leach. I'd expect to see Allen by the 8th game. DH misses lay ups. He can't hit basic passes that any college QB hits. Don't want to hear how strong his arm is.

The line isn't helping him much. They are so bad. I see why Jay moved Scherrf to guard. He is a joke at pass blocking. CAN NOT extend him to a LTD simply because he is not a top player at his position but wants to be paid like one. His back-up is better at pass blocking.

I've seen enough of BBQ. For every play he makes he fucks up the next 3. Just isn't a good safety. Who looked at his film and thought he was better than Mathieu? That is the guy you pay money to. He makes plays, tackles and covers. I'd put Curl in there more and more. At least he wants to hit someone and doesn't seem to take shitty angles. Apke has no hope and should only be on teams.

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Donald Penn needs to be called today, as does Earl Thomas. Don't tell me "ET is a cancer" if u are wanting Apke to start all year we have no chance and this division sucks.

Haskins is what he is IMO, he's a serviceable QB that can win you games if you are loaded around him. If you need him to make crucial throws he wont do it, I agree I think we will see Kyle Allen soon if Haskins continues playing this poorly, had had 3 or 4 horrible balls yesterday that are NFL layups.. Unfortunately we do not have our Franchise QB once again.

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1259611]DH was not drafted by this staff - fair or not he isn't getting a long leach. I'd expect to see Allen by the 8th game. DH misses lay ups. He can't hit basic passes that any college QB hits. Don't want to hear how strong his arm is.

The line isn't helping him much. They are so bad. I see why Jay moved Scherrf to guard. He is a joke at pass blocking. CAN NOT extend him to a LTD simply because he is not a top player at his position but wants to be paid like one. His back-up is better at pass blocking.

I've seen enough of BBQ. For every play he makes he fucks up the next 3. Just isn't a good safety. Who looked at his film and thought he was better than Mathieu? That is the guy you pay money to. He makes plays, tackles and covers. I'd put Curl in there more and more. At least he wants to hit someone and doesn't seem to take shitty angles. Apke has no hope and should only be on teams.[/quote]

Landon Collins was another fucking joke of a signing. Lol what an embarrassment. Gotta cut him or renegotiate that deal. I knew that was signing was gonna bite us. You don’t pay that money for a low impact position.

I hope the Pats don’t use up Cam this year...gotta think he will be in the mix for QB for us.

Agree, Schreff not playing well enough to demand top 5 guard money.

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[quote=Chico23231;1259613]Landon Collins was another fucking joke of a signing. Lol what an embarrassment. Gotta cut him or renegotiate that deal. I knew that was signing was gonna bite us. You don’t pay that money for a low impact position.

I hope the Pats don’t use up Cam this year...gotta think he will be in the mix for QB for us.[/quote]

Cam said he's rejuvenated in NE, I bet he signs a deal with them. Yeah Collins sucks, he makes a play here and there but then he has 2 or 3 horrible misses

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So many things stacked against Haskins right now. New offense, new coaches, a piss poor OL, not any weapons beyond McLaurin, etc etc. Too early to give up on him.

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[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiaq7WhVoAEI6bY?format=png&name=900x900[/IMG]

Haskins is clearly better when he's in quick game situations

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[quote=MTK;1259615]So many things stacked against Haskins right now. New offense, new coaches, a piss poor OL, not any weapons beyond McLaurin, etc etc. Too early to give up on him.[/quote]

I think they will lt him play out this yr and see who's available next yr.

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When has the Oline been this bad?

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1259612]Donald Penn needs to be called today, as does Earl Thomas. Don't tell me "ET is a cancer" if u are wanting Apke to start all year we have no chance and this division sucks.

Haskins is what he is IMO, he's a serviceable QB that can win you games if you are loaded around him. If you need him to make crucial throws he wont do it, I agree I think we will see Kyle Allen soon if Haskins continues playing this poorly, had had 3 or 4 horrible balls yesterday that are NFL layups.. Unfortunately we do not have our Franchise QB once again.[/quote]

Thomas is better than anyone we have. But the real question is why is he unemployed? The word is out on him - shows up late to meetings, is a pain in the ass to coach and his tape last year was inconsistent. You think RR will put up with a guy who gives his coach the middle finger in the middle of a game? C'mon, it ain't happening here.

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[quote=Chico23231;1259618]When has the Oline been this bad?[/quote]

Been a long time , they ignored it all off season other than Charles.

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Time to get Charles in there next game

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[quote=MTK;1259615]So many things stacked against Haskins right now. New offense, new coaches, a piss poor OL, not any weapons beyond McLaurin, etc etc. Too early to give up on him.[/quote]

Roll eyes.... Who does Gardner Minchew have around him? Idk of one player on their offense. Can't name one yet he can move the offense and put up points. He has a new coordinator. Oh wait.. he has Chris Thompson.. lol.

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Haskins is the worst QB in the League ... I don’t care about anymore excuses .. he can’t hit the routine plays ( his over throws are a joke) .. yes this team has a lot of issues but it starts with the QB .. but my guess is we will get a top pick in draft and go for another Can’t miss D player 🙄( should have moved that pick last year and got OL/QB .. with all these number one picks on this D .. we still are not good ... I know I know if we just had a safety ...

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1259623]Roll eyes.... Who does Gardner Minchew have around him? Idk of one player on their offense. Can't name one yet he can move the offense and put up points. He has a new coordinator. Oh wait.. he has Chris Thompson.. lol.[/quote]

DJ Chark is legit but I agree they are not loaded by any means. Skins fans always have excuses for QBs, I did for RG3 / Cousins etc for years.. Now I am a realist and don't have my goggles on anymore. Dwayne worked his ass off all off season and he looks great as far as body goes but all that work doesn't matter if you can't hit the easy throws.. Also Terry is a LEGIT superstar at WR and SIms is pretty damn good too.. The Niners were throwing all over the field to Jordan old ass Reed yesterday and their no name WRs... Enough with the excuses, Haskins needs to put up or shut up period

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1259623]Roll eyes.... Who does Gardner Minchew have around him? Idk of one player on their offense. Can't name one yet he can move the offense and put up points. He has a new coordinator. Oh wait.. he has Chris Thompson.. lol.[/quote]

Jay Gruden is doing a great job with them

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1259610]John Clayton said on the morning drive today that if the draft happened today he'd go

Murray
Minshew
Lock
Jones
Haskins

Can't argue that[/quote]

The bottom two QBs on this list are playing for their second HC in their second year. And that's probably one of the reasons why Jones is 0-2 and Haskins stunk it up yesterday.

We're in a rebuilding year and people already want to get rid of Haskins? If RR had drafted a rookie QB, I'd be all for getting rid of Haskins. But that's not the case.

If people were willing to give Cousins mediocre ass 4 years and put up a ton of excuses for him, we can give Haskins a full season to see if he's worth keeping.

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Yeah Haskins needs to play better but you can't just look at his play without considering all of the other factors too. It's not an excuse to say the OL is garbage, it's just a fact. He's facing instant pressure way too often.

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What I have heard about Haskins since he was thrown to the wolves last year is he continually progresses, gets better every week, doesn't make the same mistake twice, etc. Countless talking heads have sung those praises, consistently, and that cannot be ignored.

That being said, he has also been inaccurate at times, but I have to believe some of that inaccuracy comes from happy feet and anxiously trying to get rid of the football before he gets clobbered.

The O line has to improve. Honestly after Scherff went out last night, I thought the O line was better. Perhaps that was a coincidence...?

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1259630]What I have heard about Haskins since he was thrown to the wolves last year is he continually progresses, gets better every week, doesn't make the same mistake twice, etc. Countless talking heads have sung those praises, consistently, and that cannot be ignored.

That being said, he has also been inaccurate at times, but I have to believe some of that inaccuracy comes from happy feet and anxiously trying to get rid of the football before he gets clobbered.

The O line has to improve. Honestly after Scherff went out last night, I thought the O line was better. Perhaps that was a coincidence...?[/quote]

People forget that last year's o-line, when Haskins was making a lot of progress towards the end of the season, was far better than the group we have now.

As Matty said, Haskins needs to play better period. But you can't overlook the fact that this o-line is straight up trash. They are not even mediocre, they are straight up terrible. Also, Scott Turner needs to draw up a gameplan with that in mind IMO.

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[quote=MTK;1259629]Yeah Haskins needs to play better but you can't just look at his play without considering all of the other factors too. It's not an excuse to say the OL is garbage, it's just a fact. He's facing instant pressure way too often.[/quote]

O for sure, it's not all on him at all.. The issue is when he has time he misses badly and that's not a good sign

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[quote=Ruhskins;1259631]People forget that last year's o-line, when Haskins was making a lot of progress towards the end of the season, was far better than the group we have now.

As Matty said, Haskins needs to play better period. But you can't overlook the fact that this o-line is straight up trash. They are not even mediocre, they are straight up terrible. Also, [B]Scott Turner needs to draw up a gameplan with that in mind IMO.[/B][/quote]

I feel like he does...once they are down by more than 2 scores.

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yea the left side of the o-line in particular. Im kinda surprised they didnt flip moses to LT, at this point he cant be any worse than Christian SR

Re: Cards postgame
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1259628]The bottom two QBs on this list are playing for their second HC in their second year. And that's probably one of the reasons why Jones is 0-2 and Haskins stunk it up yesterday.

We're in a rebuilding year and people already want to get rid of Haskins? If RR had drafted a rookie QB, I'd be all for getting rid of Haskins. But that's not the case.

If people were willing to give Cousins mediocre ass 4 years and put up a ton of excuses for him, we can give Haskins a full season to see if he's worth keeping.[/QUOTE

two different scenarios... - the difference is Cousins was not drafted here to start. he was drafted as a backup in the 4th round. he spot started for 3 years as insurance for rg until he won the job. but even in his spot starts kirk had some huge games. kirk's first start has easily been better than anything we've seen from DH. you simply can not compare the two at all.

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1259635][QUOTE=Ruhskins;1259628]The bottom two QBs on this list are playing for their second HC in their second year. And that's probably one of the reasons why Jones is 0-2 and Haskins stunk it up yesterday.

We're in a rebuilding year and people already want to get rid of Haskins? If RR had drafted a rookie QB, I'd be all for getting rid of Haskins. But that's not the case.

If people were willing to give Cousins mediocre ass 4 years and put up a ton of excuses for him, we can give Haskins a full season to see if he's worth keeping.[/QUOTE

two different scenarios... - the difference is Cousins was not drafted here to start. he was drafted as a backup in the 4th round. he spot started for 3 years as insurance for rg until he won the job. but even in his spot starts kirk had some huge games. kirk's first start has easily been better than anything we've seen from DH. you simply can not compare the two at all.[/quote]

Kirk has a better OL though but yeah overall I'd still take KC over Haskins and said that when we let him go, I was mad then and still mad now. Yeah Kirk was awful yesterday but he is still a good QB

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The trend has been horrible so far, Offense starts out like they have no clue what to do and we get down 17-0... You won't win many games like that.

Cleveland has a very below avg defense, no excuses this week

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Turner also needs to step it up and get on the same page with Haskins right off the bat vs halfway through the game.

Basically, everyone on offense needs to step it up not just Dwayne.

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[quote=MTK;1259640]Turner also needs to step it up and get on the same page with Haskins right off the bat vs halfway through the game.

Basically, everyone on offense needs to step it up not just Dwayne.[/quote]

Gibson looked good, I think getting him the ball more will help.

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Haskins ---

anticipation and reading the field -- seems like he has to see it before he throws it. Turner may be figuring that out, 2nd half we saw more slants, drags and crosses .. things Haskins can see open and then throw it. There is very little timing or anticipation throws. Last 2 games I didnt see one pass that was thrown to a receiver before their break. Its like Haskins has to see a guy win his route before he releases the ball. Not a good sign.

footwork -- this should have improved. He consistently throws flat footed but also he often doesnt even have a lead foot/leg. Its like his hips are open and facing the LOS when he releases. That 3rd and 2 throw that was low to Inman, he threw it flat footed and without a lead leg.

[url]https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1307793618527236097?s=20[/url]

^^ this isnt the 3rd and 2 play (and haskins gets a reception here) but its an example of his "bad base" as Bullock calls it. I like the term and will use it. Ive never seen a Qb want to throw like this. He does this when there is pressure and he cant step up and into a throw (understandable) but he does it when he has time and room as well.

His lazy footwork where he just relies on his arm and uses 0% of his legs and hips is a major fucking problem. This should have been coached out of him.

He does have a lead leg on half his throws .. but the other half are "bad base" throws and it leads directly to poor accuracy. Sometimes he gets away with it,sometimes like on 3rd and 2 he is inexcusably inaccurate.

Re: Cards postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1259610]John Clayton said on the morning drive today that if the draft happened today he'd go

Murray
Mindshew
Lock
Jones
Haskins

Can't argue that[/quote]

only if Haskins is a 7th round pick . . . and i'm not sure i'd take him then

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O line was getting 0 push or holes for the run game in the 1st half. 2nd half, I saw some unit cohesion where they were able to seal some running lanes and move the DL.

Geron Christian - if the expectation for him was to just stay in front of Chandler Jones and delay his progress to the QB by 2-3 seconds, I thought he kinda met that expectation. They got 4 sacks on the day but Chandler Jones had 0s on his stat sheet but with 4 QB hits.

Wes martin - he looked a little better. still no where needed to be considered even an average O lineman but he was able to stand in front of his man and impede progress a tiny bit.

^^ These guys are just below average players who should be no. 2 or 3 on depth charts and not starters.

But this is what this season is about. See if Wes martin can anchor better, toughen up a bit. See if Geron can recognize and handle an outside speed rush vs an inside spin move.

I thought they both played better week 2 vs week 1.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1259642]Gibson looked good, I think getting him the ball more will help.[/quote]

I don't understand why we are not a run first team, given that we have Gibson, McKissic, and Barber.

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time to see what Allen can do

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No it's definitely not time for Kyle Allen

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No not yet, lest see how DH does against the Browns. They have Miles Garrett but the rest is just bleh

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Haskins get all of this year.

Come on yall. Thats the whole point of this year. Not ideally fair to Haskins with this O line and new coaching staff but this is his prove it year.

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Put in Allen and you're essentially throwing in the towel on Haskins. Way too early for that. Give Dwayne the season and evaluate after that. This was a rebuilding year anyway.