Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]So Vick is over rated: 3 years playing, one year out hurt, one lossing season as QB and two trips to the play offs. That sounds pretty good to me.[/QUOTE]

Again. He wasn't the key reason for this type of success. It's his supporting cast that made this happen. The top rushing attack in the NFL and again, his Pro Bowl TE and defense.

This isn't aimed at you directly, but more of a general question: Why does everyone go to bat for Vick so readily? Honestly, I've seen more loyalty to him than a lot of Skins that we've had in the past year.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Again. He wasn't the key reason for this type of success. It's his supporting cast that made this happen. The top rushing attack in the NFL and again, his Pro Bowl TE and defense.

This isn't aimed at you directly, but more of a general question: Why does everyone go to bat for Vick so readily? Honestly, I've seen more loyalty to him than a lot of Skins that we've had in the past year.[/QUOTE]I'm not going to bat for him I just think that he is not over rated. In those rushing yards over 900 were Vicks subtract them and Atlanta is average at best.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Vick definitely has an impact on the Falcons, I don't think that can be denied.

Discussions about who's overrated are kinda silly if you ask me. Overrated to me means they receive alot of hype in the media, but the guys that receive all the hype are generally very good players and deserve some of the hype they receive. That's why we're not discussing Ade Jimoh as the most overrated, or Corey Raymer.

Vick is definitely a media favorite. That being said, would the Falcons be the same team without him? No way.

The same goes for some of the other names being tossed around here. Deion overrated? C'mon the guy was the best pure cover corner the league has ever seen. Favre? How many MVP's does he have?

These guys might receive too much attention from the media, but that comes with the territory when you're a star player.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

OK. True enough. Based on that argument, who really IS one of the most overrated players? Let's reset.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Welcome to the board Sociofan, Deion is still in the league with the Ravens.

This thread could have been renamed the Mike Vick debate.

Who is the REDSKINS most overated and underated player?

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

By the way mad props and much love to who ever started this thread, It has been great.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

I think it's pretty easy to see how valuable Vick is, look at the Falcons' record during the year he was hurt, and then look at their record when he is playing. That's as cut and dry as it gets.

On the Redskins, most overrated player is definitely LaVar. His athletic ability certainly isn't overrated, he's an athletic monster. But he can't put his head in the right place; tries to be the hero and make plays out of position. Marcus Washington is a more valuable linebacker because he knows his responsibilities, uses his head, stays disciplined, and unleashes a fair amount of athleticism and nastiness in his own right.

Dare I say it, but I think Samuels is a bit overrated too. I think he's a great LT and I'm real glad we have him, but I think we overpaid for him a bit. We paid him the 4th biggest LT contract out there, that's pro-bowl money, but he hasn't been to the pro-bowl in a while. I think we had no choice but to pay him this year, and I wouldn't change the decision. But he needs to step it up if his performance is going to match his pay.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Underrated Redskin is Randy Thomas. I love that guy, he's one of the very best RGs in the league and nobody talks about him.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Whether or not someone is overrated or underrated is so subjective in my book.

All I'm gonna say is Arrington may be overrated a bit, but the most overrated in the entire league?? I really don't agree.[/QUOTE]


A BIT???????????????????????

Who other than Lavar would carry that title?

Although I agree that Vick is vastly overated, at least he play's a position that happens to be the toughest on the field, his position as well takes some players 3 years and sometimes longer to really master, I think Vicks durability is his biggest problem, and a major reason why he will never really become a big time QB, but I wouldn't put him in front of Lavar for the most overated player in the league, that honor belongs to Lavar as I have been saying for the last year and a half.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Thomas is definitely underrated and I'd throw Jansen in there too.

We saw how valuable he was when we lost him for an entire season. He never gets enough credit for being a top right tackle.

Overrated on the Skins, I can agree with Samuels and Arrington. Two high priced, high profile players.

Sometimes though it's impossible for these players to live up to their incredible hype. Look at the expectations LaVar came into the league with. He was dubbed the next LT... I'm sorry but there will never be another LT.

It's too bad that being the next LA will probably not be enough to satisfy his critics. It's really not fair to him when you think about it.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]A BIT???????????????????????

Who other than Lavar would carry that title?

Although I agree that Vick is vastly overated, at least he play's a position that happens to be the toughest on the field, his position as well takes some players 3 years and sometimes longer to really master, I think Vicks durability is his biggest problem, and a major reason why he will never really become a big time QB, but I wouldn't put him in front of Lavar for the most overated player in the league, that honor belongs to Lavar as I have been saying for the last year and a half.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I just don't think he's the most overrated player in the entire league.

He's been to Pro Bowls, he's had his share of impact games, and he's also had to adjust to several defensive schemes and coaches. He hasn't had the same stability that someone like Urlacher has had.

Speaking of Urlacher, I'd put Urlacher ahead of Arrington on the most overrated list.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Speaking of Urlacher, I'd put Urlacher ahead of Arrington on the most overrated list.[/QUOTE]
I would have to 2nd that. Along with Key shawn Johnson ,Freddy Mitchell...

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

I've always felt that a couple of Jags-Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith-are underrated. I don't think they get the credit they deserve.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Keyshawn Johnson is a great choice Riggo.

Underrated for the skins there are several choices already mentioned, Jansen, Springs, but I would go with C. Griffin.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Left field choice for underrated Skin...How bout Matt Bowen, until he got hurt he was playing great, led the team in sacks. I expect a big year out of Bowen this season.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I've always felt that a couple of Jags-Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith-are underrated. I don't think they get the credit they deserve.[/QUOTE]

I definitely agree with Jimmy Smith and Fred Taylor.

If Smith played for a big market team he'd be a household name.

Taylor got labeled injury prone early in his career but he's quietly put up five 1200+ yard seasons in his 7 seasons played. 4.6 yards per carry is pretty impressive too.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

If you check the poll on the most overrated article page, Sapp is easily leading at 46.8%.

[url]http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8622837?over0706[/url]

LaVar is currently 3rd with 15.5% of the vote.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=Red Robert]Welcome to the board Sociofan, Deion is still in the league with the Ravens.

This thread could have been renamed the Mike Vick debate.

Who is the REDSKINS most overated and underated player?[/QUOTE]
You're kidding me!!! They are going to squeeze another year out of Deion? Doing what? Starting a Fab Four dance troupe in Baltimore? Working as a hot-air blower in cold stadiums? Modeling garish new uniform designs? Who does he think he is--Darryl Green?

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]A BIT???????????????????????

Who other than Lavar would carry that title?

Although I agree that Vick is vastly overated, at least he play's a position that happens to be the toughest on the field, his position as well takes some players 3 years and sometimes longer to really master, I think Vicks durability is his biggest problem, and a major reason why he will never really become a big time QB, but I wouldn't put him in front of Lavar for the most overated player in the league, that honor belongs to Lavar as I have been saying for the last year and a half.[/QUOTE]


Office, you just have it in for lavar for some reason.
lavar has never been the most overrated player on the skins defense, thats like saying joe gibbs is the most overrated coach in the league. it's hard for lavar to get comfortable in a system when the system and the players changes EVERY year, just like it was hard for gibbs to pick up from where he left off 12 years ago.

i would say champ bailey was more overrated then lavar, he got burned more times then lavar was out of position.

if you went back and looked at all the different defensive players that have played on the skins with lavar i would garentee you would find a more overrated player for each year.
here's a few names that come to mind.
bailey
sanders
stubblefield
smoot
trotter
and thats just on defense, there are even more on offense. so to say lavar is the most overrated redskin is just rediculouse.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm sorry I just don't think he's the most overrated player in the entire league.

He's been to Pro Bowls, he's had his share of impact games, and he's also had to adjust to several defensive schemes and coaches. He hasn't had the same stability that someone like Urlacher has had.

Speaking of Urlacher, I'd put Urlacher ahead of Arrington on the most overrated list.[/QUOTE]


Sorry?? For what? Having an opinion? Come on we all have opinion's, nothing to be sorry for. :biggthump

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]Office, you just have it in for lavar for some reason.
lavar has never been the most overrated player on the skins defense, thats like saying joe gibbs is the most overrated coach in the league. it's hard for lavar to get comfortable in a system when the system and the players changes EVERY year, just like it was hard for gibbs to pick up from where he left off 12 years ago.

i would say champ bailey was more overrated then lavar, he got burned more times then lavar was out of position.

if you went back and looked at all the different defensive players that have played on the skins with lavar i would garentee you would find a more overrated player for each year.
here's a few names that come to mind.
bailey
sanders
stubblefield
smoot
trotter
and thats just on defense, there are even more on offense. so to say lavar is the most overrated redskin is just rediculouse.[/QUOTE]


Elfkins, Please don't start comparing Lavar to Gibb's I may have to throw up.

I do like your bringing up of Champ though, my belief was at the time that Smoot was a better CB than Champ, and I used to tell my Giant buddies that all the time, but I would have been exiled from this board if I harped on it at the time, Champ is right there with Lavar as being overated, but Lavar defiently beats him out.


As for some of those other names, Deion is over the hill not overated, How did Trotter look this year? No way he looked overated, probably come back player of the year IMO, we made him look overated, Stubby had established himself before we signed him and was deserving of his contract, we have had a way of bringing out the worst in some players. Smoot is not overated, if anything going in to last season he was underated, I don't think he was worth his contract but that doesn't neccasarily alway's make you overated, just means he was lucky enough to find a team with a real need at his position.



As for Urlacher, we all know he's hyped up, but the kid can play, I have seen him to many times to say otherwise, is the kid Dick Butkis in the middle? No! but he is a good MLB, and IMO has outplayed Lavar since they entered the league.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

i'm not comparing lavar to gibbs as person to person, i'm comparing their situations. as for those guys i mentioned as being more overrated than lavar, on the day the skins signed each one of thos players, they were more overrated than lavar. smoot was overrated because many people think he was a #1 cb but he was only a decent #2.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Firstdown, You Said It, One Season Hurt, 3 Season In The League...2 Playoffs...wow...if M. Vick Was White, Would He Steve Young, And Was Steve Young Overrated Before Or After He Won The Superbowl, Its Always Funny To Me How Players Like Mike Vick, Gets Picked On But No One Says Anything About All Those Bust That Came In The League Or In The League Now, That M Vick Hasn't Thrown At A High Percentage, But Can He Get Some Years In About 5 Before We Start Calling Him A Bust, They Said That About Mcnabb, So If Peyton Didn't Have Marvin Harrison, What Would His Stats Be Like, And Have Manning Been As Deep In The Playoffs As Vick.....i Sure For You Slo Footed Folks, That You Couldn't Possibily Couldn't Understand That Kind Of Athleticism...will See Who Will Make The Superbowl First

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

sociofan....oh my god...now randy moss is overrated....how do you all come up with this, and Deion the best shut down cb in the league, oh yeah defensive player of the year.....numerious pro bowls, he has what 3 superbowl.....yeah and he's going to the hall of fame....yeah i guess if thats overrated, i can see how everyone in here think vick is........i'll take Vick over Ramsey nervious ass

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Sorry?? For what? Having an opinion? Come on we all have opinion's, nothing to be sorry for. :biggthump[/QUOTE]

I should have clarified, I'm sorry you're wrong

;)

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

FOR AFICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE, ITS BEEN ALONG TIME COMING, BEFORE THERE WERE SUCH THING AS A COLORED QB, IT WAS SAID WE WEREN'T SMART ENOUGH, WE WERN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A TEAM LEADER, THEN WARREN MOON, CAME ALONG AND THEN DOUG WILLIAMS WINS A SUPERBOWL, DID YOU KNOW THAT WARREN MOON IS SECOND TO DAN MARINO, IN PASSING YARDS...FYI, AND NOW THE LEAGUE MOST EXCITING PLAYERS ARE VICK, MCNABB, CULPEPPER, ITS AMAZING, IF VICK USES HIS SKILLS AT HIS POSTIONS, HES OVERRATED, BUT IF PEYTON USES HIS BRAIN, THEN HE HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE VICK, NOT TRUE PEYTON IS HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE EVERY QB....BUT TO MOST OF US VICK IS A HERO, WE RELATE TO THOSE PLAYERS...BOTTOM LINE, VICK HAS CHANGE THE FACE OF FOOTBALL, DO YOU HAVE TO STAND IN THE POCKET TO BE GREAT...IS FRAN TARKENTON IN THE HALL OF FAME, HIS WORST SEASON HE WAS 49% AND HIS BEST HE WAS AT 64%...CAREER 57%, 342 TD AND 266 INT's one season he rushed 62 times in one season, according to most hear he would be a very overrated player........

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Lavar may be the most overrated player, but the Seahawk have to be the most overrated team. Every year I hear these analysts predict how great of a year they are going to have just to see them get blown away early in the playoffs. Heck, even we beat them..;)

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

WeWhite - First of all, calm down with the capitilization. It's tedious to read that crap, just use regular sentences. The nice thing about this board is using all caps isn't necessary because most everyone reads the entire post.

Also, I've never seen someone incorporate so much racism into football. I don't know a single person who sees a black guy behind center and says "He can't be a QB." The fact of the matter is Vick isn't a prototypical QB whereas Peyton Manning is. Peyton Manning is very smart, great at reading defenses, and calls his own plays, I honestly don't think that Vick can handle or acheive any of that. Before you call me some sort of racist lets look at the backround I know on Vick: 1) Couldn't handle Dan Reeves system. The terminology and plays had to be simplified for Vick to understand them. 2) My friends sister tutored him while she was at tech. My friend (who by the way is the biggest vick fan in the world) said that his sister told him that Vick was by far the dumbest person she ever met. That doesn't speak volumes for him when it comes to reading defenses.

Vick is an exciting player, he's a great scrambler, but he still has work to do to become a great QB. It's like calling an H-Back a TE. Kinda -- but not really. His arm strength is great, his scrambling is the best we've ever seen, and he has potential out his ass. Not having any receivers besides Crumpler doesn't exactly help his cause, but he's not yet a very good passer. I think he'll slowly make the transition as his body gets older/takes more abuse he'll have to protect himself more. Funny you mention McNabb, he became an all-pro when he started to pass more (though he's not accurate either).

For someone who brings racism up at a drop of a hat, it's ironic you're such a skins fan. Considering that historically the Redskins have been a very racist franchise. One owner (can't remember his name) blasted someone from the WP and said he couldn't make a better pick in the draft, they gave the guy from the WP a pick in the last round (back then I think it was 13th or something) and before this the Redskins had not yet been integrated (we were the last NFL team I believe, until pressured by the league) the WP chose some TE that they said was black, told the owner that the Redskins now had their first black player, the owner flipped out and got the pick rejected, but it turned out the player wasn't even black to begin with. That story is kinda mish mashed from what I remember in some book about weird sports things. Not that I agree with this, but you must learn from histories mistakes.

WeWhite - do you write for ESPN. I read some tripe that Ben Wallace wasn't popular because he wasn't the type of black person white america wanted to see. He had an afro and tatoos. I'd give my left nut for an afro (I wanted one so bad I actually made my friend not cut his hair!) and god knows white America avoids tatoos like the plague... It's ridiculous. Ben is a great defensive player, but his offense lacks. What sells in most sports? Most of the time offense sells tickets, jerseys, and popularity. Defense in the NFL has contact and is quite a bit more exciting than taking a charge.

All in all -- what's with the racist stuff. I never see anyone say anything remotely close to racist, yet you're always bringing up that because an athelete is black we don't like/think they're over-rated. Is it so hard to fathom that we are able to look past skin color and look at their personallity (as best as we can tell from the media), and their skills to decide? The only racist comments I ever see on this board are yours.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

I will make the case that I have NO IDEA whether his recievers are any good are not. It could be mostly Vick's problem. And can we stop with the racist bullshit? And for goodness sake please at least use some type of reasonable sentence structure and punctuation. Vick didn't singlehandedly do anything with that team. He has a great defense and good RBs and good OL. That's the reason they're in the playoffs. If Vick couldn't run, he'd be in the dustbin of history with Health Shuler and Ryan Leaf. period.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Also, Heath Shuler and Ryan leaf were white. It didn't help them not suck. Not that that's a fair comparison, though. Vick is WAY better than either of those guys.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]WeWhite - First of all, calm down with the capitilization. It's tedious to read that crap, just use regular sentences. The nice thing about this board is using all caps isn't necessary because most everyone reads the entire post.

Also, I've never seen someone incorporate so much racism into football. I don't know a single person who sees a black guy behind center and says "He can't be a QB." The fact of the matter is Vick isn't a prototypical QB whereas Peyton Manning is. Peyton Manning is very smart, great at reading defenses, and calls his own plays, I honestly don't think that Vick can handle or acheive any of that. Before you call me some sort of racist lets look at the backround I know on Vick: 1) Couldn't handle Dan Reeves system. The terminology and plays had to be simplified for Vick to understand them. 2) My friends sister tutored him while she was at tech. My friend (who by the way is the biggest vick fan in the world) said that his sister told him that Vick was by far the dumbest person she ever met. That doesn't speak volumes for him when it comes to reading defenses.

Vick is an exciting player, he's a great scrambler, but he still has work to do to become a great QB. It's like calling an H-Back a TE. Kinda -- but not really. His arm strength is great, his scrambling is the best we've ever seen, and he has potential out his ass. Not having any receivers besides Crumpler doesn't exactly help his cause, but he's not yet a very good passer. I think he'll slowly make the transition as his body gets older/takes more abuse he'll have to protect himself more. Funny you mention McNabb, he became an all-pro when he started to pass more (though he's not accurate either).

For someone who brings racism up at a drop of a hat, it's ironic you're such a skins fan. Considering that historically the Redskins have been a very racist franchise. One owner (can't remember his name) blasted someone from the WP and said he couldn't make a better pick in the draft, they gave the guy from the WP a pick in the last round (back then I think it was 13th or something) and before this the Redskins had not yet been integrated (we were the last NFL team I believe, until pressured by the league) the WP chose some TE that they said was black, told the owner that the Redskins now had their first black player, the owner flipped out and got the pick rejected, but it turned out the player wasn't even black to begin with. That story is kinda mish mashed from what I remember in some book about weird sports things. Not that I agree with this, but you must learn from histories mistakes.

WeWhite - do you write for ESPN. I read some tripe that Ben Wallace wasn't popular because he wasn't the type of black person white america wanted to see. He had an afro and tatoos. I'd give my left nut for an afro (I wanted one so bad I actually made my friend not cut his hair!) and god knows white America avoids tatoos like the plague... It's ridiculous. Ben is a great defensive player, but his offense lacks. What sells in most sports? Most of the time offense sells tickets, jerseys, and popularity. Defense in the NFL has contact and is quite a bit more exciting than taking a charge.

All in all -- what's with the racist stuff. I never see anyone say anything remotely close to racist, yet you're always bringing up that because an athelete is black we don't like/think they're over-rated. Is it so hard to fathom that we are able to look past skin color and look at their personallity (as best as we can tell from the media), and their skills to decide? The only racist comments I ever see on this board are yours.[/QUOTE]

Originally, I was going to repeat EXACTLY what you said. Excellent explanation. Let's calm down with the racist bullshit.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

On the Topic of Ben Wallace, he's my favorite player in the NBA. Hard work and heart. He's a joy to watch and since we're talking about being underrated or overrrated, I think he still manages to be underrated somehow.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Deasel without a doubt you are one of the most articulate guys on this board, well put.

Again way to go to whoever started this threat, you are the best.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Thanks alot Redrobert, I did start it.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Daseal is right, race has nothing to do with this conversation, so let's just stay away from that altogether.

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=wewhite3]Thats Funny, That Vick Is Pick As Being The Most Overrated Player In The League, Uh No I Don't Think So, If After 3yrs They Haven't Figured Him Out, I Don't Think They Will Now....vick Is Far From Being The Most Overrated Player Maybe Maybe That Manning Kid In Ny, Or Kyle Boller, Oh Yeah Joey Harrington, Done Panned Out Well...oh My God, I Forgot, What About Good Ol Drew Bledsoe, If The Pocket Breaks, He Gone...poor Aron Brooks, Always We Be In The Shadow Of Poor Ole Cus....and Drew Brees....lucky He Had A. Gates Or He Would Have Been Shipped Out......so Lets See How M. Vick Career Ends Up....hell Lets See If Patrick Ramsey Will, Be Back Next Year...or Guess What...hello Campbell, Another Overrated Player That I've Heard That Wasn't Worth The Price...........[/QUOTE]

First someone has to be considered good before they are overrated.
Dude arron Brooks? He seriously is allittle mentally retarded

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

ok, whatever you say Daseal, but you are wrong, even Mcnabb said it that, why do he have to be labled a black QB, and not just a QB, its not racism, i only kicked out the facts, you don't have to like it, like i said no one ever said that Fran tarkenton was overrated and i like him (how about that me liking a white QB) anyway, and Peyton Manning may be one of a few QB's who call his own plays, so whats your point, What Vick really is that dumb....oh my god i hope not, that would set us back another 20 years, and racism in sports goes back futher than the little peace you put up....and does Peyton Greatness, have anything to do with the receivers he have, I think Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all times, but how great would he have been without jerry rice, and as far as you wanting a afro, OK role with that, and far as me being a redskin fan, don't need to validate that, i been a skins fan since the early 80's so, i don't have to defend myself on that and never will, and didn't someone say that some coach who use to work for Auburn said that Jason Campbell was the dumbest player he ever coached..........there is a pattern

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

i agree aron brooks is not close to being considered a qb, who said that......he should transfer to wr....bottom line, i agree Bigskinbauer

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Thomas is definitely underrated and I'd throw Jansen in there too.

We saw how valuable he was when we lost him for an entire season. He never gets enough credit for being a top right tackle.

Overrated on the Skins, I can agree with Samuels and Arrington. Two high priced, high profile players.

Sometimes though it's impossible for these players to live up to their incredible hype. Look at the expectations LaVar came into the league with. He was dubbed the next LT... I'm sorry but there will never be another LT.

It's too bad that being the next LA will probably not be enough to satisfy his critics. It's really not fair to him when you think about it.[/QUOTE]

I don't think thomas is underrated he gets lots of credit, ESPN saying we had great potential in our line. He is the third best RG in MAdden 2005. Also Jansen was ranked third best. I think madden is a good place to look at overrated underrated. I mean Arrington an 98 maybe thats why, he is AMAZING but 98 is tops in the league. AND CHAMP BAILEY A 99 ouch

By the way does anyone know the rankings for next year, i saw the teams but individual players is what i want to know, thanks, by the way i heard portis is an 88=underrated

Re: Most Overrated NFL Player?
 

Just wat comes to mind my list no order
Overrated
Champ Bailey, John Lynch, Brees, arrington, Sapp(but i don't think anyone thinks he is anything anymore), Ogden, VIck, Musin Muhammad, Trotter, Roy williams, Darren Sharper, ROETHLISBURGER, Smoot(was underrated now allittle overrated but not much, he will find his place in Minni) o yeah again CHAMP, Ray lewis, Brian Dawkins, micheal Lewis

Underrated
Chad Johnson(he gets lots of credit but not deserving, topped AFC 2 years straight, suffers allittle from arron Brooks desease), Springs, Fred Taylor, Randy McMicheal,ALl Our Defensive players individually, Will Demps, Tiki Barber, Marcus Trufant, COOLEY