Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]I think trading draft picks for a borderline over the hill qb then the next year drafting a qb with the teams 1st pick all the while having a qb with 3 years in the league tells me Gibbs has no faith in PR. If he did there would have been no need to draft Campbell. Gibbs will give PR his shot but he wont stick with him too long when/if things go bad.[/QUOTE]

I've said this before though, what would have been our QB options if Ramsey didn't get the job done? I think that Gibbs saw a value in Campbell (rather than drafting maybe Leinart next year for triple the money) that we couldn't ignore. I know the price may seem high now, but he may turn out to be a bargain later on.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

If Gibbs has no faith in Ramsey, why not have an open QB competition? Why did he name PR the starter way back at the end of the 2004 season?

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

He did that to try to give PR some confidence and to deflect the media that loves to create a QB controversy. A good move on Gibbs part.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I've said this before though, what would have been our QB options if Ramsey didn't get the job done? I think that Gibbs saw a value in Campbell (rather than drafting maybe Leinart next year for triple the money) that we couldn't ignore. I know the price may seem high now, but he may turn out to be a bargain later on.[/QUOTE]

That proves my point exactly, Gibbs is getting ready because he is betting that PR wont get the job done. If Gibbs was confident PR is the man he would not have needed to use his 1st pick in the draft on a contingency plan.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]He did that to try to give PR some confidence and to deflect the media that loves to create a QB controversy. A good move on Gibbs part.[/QUOTE]

Why give confidence to a guy you have no faith in?

Seems kinda silly that Gibbs would put the entire season on the line just to give confidence to a QB he supposedly has no faith in.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why give confidence to a guy you have no faith in?

Seems kinda silly that Gibbs would put the entire season on the line just to give confidence to a QB he supposedly has no faith in.[/QUOTE].

Matty 1
Crazy Conspiracy Theorist Guy 0

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Why give confidence to a guy you have no faith in?

Seems kinda silly that Gibbs would put the entire season on the line just to give confidence to a QB he supposedly has no faith in.[/QUOTE]


Just because Gibbs has no confidence now does not mean he can't gain confidence in PR over time. By trying to give PR a feeling that the coaching staff has confidence in him will allow PR to relax and play better thereby increasing Gibbs confidence in him. Its a win-win.

Actually to me it seems Gibbs would be putting the season at a bigger risk by not expressing confidence in PR to help him play better and Gibbs understands people too well to make that stupid mistake.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Just because Gibbs has no confidence now does not mean he can't gain confidence in PR over time. By trying to give PR a feeling that the coaching staff has confidence in him will allow PR to relax and play better thereby increasing Gibbs confidence in him. Its a win-win.[/quote]

So... Gibbs is just blowing smoke up Ramsey's and the entire team's collective asses by saying PR is his guy? And hopefully over time he'll have confidence in him??

That would be like getting married to a girl you [i]may[/i] grow to love sometime in the future.

Sorry but that doesn't fly. You don't go to battle with a QB you [i]may[/i] have confidence in sometime in the future, and in the process put the entire season on the line just because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings. If Gibbs didn't believe in him, I find it hard to understand why he wouldn't have an open QB competition and let the best man win out.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Just because Gibbs has no confidence now does not mean he can't gain confidence in PR over time. By trying to give PR a feeling that the coaching staff has confidence in him will allow PR to relax and play better thereby increasing Gibbs confidence in him. Its a win-win.

Actually to me it seems Gibbs would be putting the season at a bigger risk by not expressing confidence in PR to help him play better and Gibbs understands people too well to make that stupid mistake.[/QUOTE]


dude... you're really reaching lol.
[url="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=confidence"][/url]
[url="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=confidence"]confidence[/url]
this may help you

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

It did help thanks. Def #1 is what Gibbs is trying to make happen for PR. Its a coaches most important job.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Just because Gibbs has no confidence now does not mean he can't gain confidence in PR over time.[/QUOTE]


you're not getting it... this statement, and the basis of your rhetoric, is an oxymoron. Gibbs would already have to have confidence in ramsey in order to even want to build confidence in him. He would have to have confidence that building confidence in Ramsey would make a difference, and that's confidence. Kind of a catch 22 there buddy, you're arguing against yourself, and everyone else that sides with you lol.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So... Gibbs is just blowing smoke up Ramsey's and the entire team's collective asses by saying PR is his guy? And hopefully over time he'll have confidence in him??

That would be like getting married to a girl you [i]may[/i] grow to love sometime in the future.

Sorry but that doesn't fly. You don't go to battle with a QB you [i]may[/i] have confidence in sometime in the future, and in the process put the entire season on the line just because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings. If Gibbs didn't believe in him, I find it hard to understand why he wouldn't have an open QB competition and let the best man win out.[/QUOTE]


I'm confused. Where did I mention PR's feelings? I'm not talking about trying to keep PR from crying I'm talking about a coach trying to get a player to feel good about himself and his abilities so he can perform at his highest level. It's done all the time.

I dont think The Chargers had much confidence in Brees going into last season but now that he played better they have more confidence in his abilities. Or to your example they have grown to love him. The Giants are in the same boat, they will play Manning and gain or lose confidence in his ability over time. So in reality, teams go into battle all the time with players they may have confidence in later.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]you're not getting it... this statement, and the basis of your rhetoric, is an oxymoron. Gibbs would already have to have confidence in ramsey in order to even want to build confidence in him. He would have to have confidence that building confidence in Ramsey would make a difference, and that's confidence. Kind of a catch 22 there buddy, you're arguing against yourself, and everyone else that sides with you lol.[/QUOTE]

Why would he need to have confidence to want to build it? Gibbs has no choice. For better or worse he's stuck with PR on the team, he's young and there's nobody coming along this year. So in an effort to make the team better he's gotta get PR to play well. I doubt Gibbs cares one way or another about PR or his feelings but he does care if the team wins or loses and right now this team needs PR to play well for the team to win.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

I give up.

I guess we'll just see how things play out.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]That proves my point exactly, Gibbs is getting ready because he is betting that PR wont get the job done. If Gibbs was confident PR is the man he would not have needed to use his 1st pick in the draft on a contingency plan.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't REALLY prove anything. The Packers drafted a QB with a proven GREAT QB starting this year...

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Doesn't REALLY prove anything. The Packers drafted a QB with a proven GREAT QB starting this year...[/QUOTE]

You mean a proven QB who almost retired this year and will likely retire next. They really do need a plan for next year.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

I keep hearing people blaming Brunell for taking 43mil and playing poorly. You can blame him for playing poorly but you cannot blame him for the money he received. Thats the fault of our front office. What was brunell to say no he would only except a contract for 12 mil because thats all I'm worth now. I think all of us would take the money even if down deep we knew it was more than we were worth.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Why would he need to have confidence to want to build it? Gibbs has no choice. For better or worse he's stuck with PR on the team, he's young and there's nobody coming along this year. So in an effort to make the team better he's gotta get PR to play well. I doubt Gibbs cares one way or another about PR or his feelings but he does care if the team wins or loses and right now this team needs PR to play well for the team to win.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't think Gibbs is "stuck" with anyone on his team, and yes he does have a choice - we may all have varying opinions on those choices, but he definitely has choices. But like I said earlier, I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that Gibbs has no faith in PR. You don't just hand over the reigns to a franchise to someone you have no faith in or "building confidence" in. Now, the guys that Gibbs didn't have faith in or lost faith in are gone, a la Gardner and L.Coles, Barrow. All for different reasons mind you. Coles was unhappy, so Gibbs made a choice. Barrow couldn't get healthy so Gibbs made a choice. Gardner was no longer a part of our long-term plans, so Gibbs made a choice. Even when the team took a financial hit Gibbs had a "choice" in the matter and he made one. And I don't think we should speak for Gibbs as to whether he cares about Ramsey's feelings. But that's the great thing about this site, we can all agree to disagree:)

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

Like I said before 12th, teams hand the reigns over to players they are building confidence in all the time, Brees, E. Manning, Carr, Big Ben. You arguement that this never happens has no basis in reality.

As for Gibbs having a choice, what free agent was he going to bring in that could do as well as or better than PR? There is a bunch of impact WRs and RBs, LBs, etc that are available as free agents every year so the choice to dump Gardner & Coles was easy because they are easy to replace. Impact free agent QBs just dont exist, therefore Gibbs is stuck with PR.

I believe Gibbs wants PR to succeed because if PR succeeds Gibbs and the team succeed but I also believe that deep in his heart Gibbs just does not think PR will end up being the man.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Like I said before 12th, teams hand the reigns over to players they are building confidence in all the time, Brees, E. Manning, Carr, Big Ben. You arguement that this never happens has no basis in reality.

As for Gibbs having a choice, what free agent was he going to bring in that could do as well as or better than PR? There is a bunch of impact WRs and RBs, LBs, etc that are available as free agents every year so the choice to dump Gardner & Coles was easy because they are easy to replace. Impact free agent QBs just dont exist, therefore Gibbs is stuck with PR.

I believe Gibbs wants PR to succeed because if PR succeeds Gibbs and the team succeed but I also believe that deep in his heart Gibbs just does not think PR will end up being the man.[/QUOTE]

Okay, Irish, for the sake of argument let's use the building confidence scenerios of Brees, E. Manning, Carr, Big Ben. In my opinion, these coaches wer're simply developing QBs that they already had confidence in to begin with! I don't think in any of these cases the coaches we're standing by, waiting for these guys to throw their first NFL touchdown, wipe the sweat from their brow, and blow a sigh of relief as if they were now all of a sudden confident in their respective abilities. I just don't buy - they had confidence in them to begin with, but they simply needed to develop the raw talent that was there. To not have faith in something is like not driving a car with no brakes because you know no matter how much you pump the brakes or how much you like the car it just won't stop! So you don't even bother to start the engine until you fix the brakes.

By the way, there were a few FA QBs available. Kurt Warner, Drew Bleedslow, Dilfer, Garcia. Now obviously there were financial considerations and other things to consider on the part of the Redskins, but that's a pretty decent list.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

If Marty had confidence in Breese and was developing this raw talent, why did the Chargers draft Rivers #1 overall? Because Marty had no confidence in DB. Marty did last year what Gibbs is doing this year. Hopefully PR does this season what Breese did last year.

Warner, Bledsoe, Garcia, Dilfer. Not exactly what I would call impact free agents. Their best days are behind them and 2 years from now they wont be in the league.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]If Marty had confidence in Breese and was developing this raw talent, why did the Chargers draft Rivers #1 overall? Because Marty had no confidence in DB. Marty did last year what Gibbs is doing this year. Hopefully PR does this season what Breese did last year.

Warner, Bledsoe, Garcia, Dilfer. Not exactly what I would call impact free agents. Their best days are behind them and 2 years from now they wont be in the league.[/QUOTE]

Well, like I said it's cool to disagree here. I just think the word "no confidence" is is a little overboard that's all. No problem.

No they aren't all impact QBs, but that's why I called the list decent.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]Like I said before 12th, teams hand the reigns over to players they are building confidence in all the time, Brees, E. Manning, Carr, Big Ben. You arguement that this never happens has no basis in reality.
[/QUOTE]

actually, none of those guys would have touched the field if their coachess didn't think they'd be able to get the job done. the giants new manning would take time to develop, but if they didn't think he'd get much better over time, there were other QBs they could have plugged in for a more immediate impact but worse long term benefits.

if those teams didn't have confidence those QBs would become great, they wouldn't have drafted them, wouldn't have signed them and wouldn't have played them. So saying that that arguement has no basis in reality is just plain wrong.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=irish]If Marty had confidence in Breese and was developing this raw talent, why did the Chargers draft Rivers #1 overall? Because Marty had no confidence in DB. Marty did last year what Gibbs is doing this year. Hopefully PR does this season what Breese did last year.[/QUOTE]

because brees was becoming a FA (like ramsey) and marty wanted a contingency plan AND rivers looked like he could become a good player. You take the shots when they're there, and not waiting till the last minute is usually a good idea.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]actually, none of those guys would have touched the field if their coachess didn't think they'd be able to get the job done. the giants new manning would take time to develop, but if they didn't think he'd get much better over time, there were other QBs they could have plugged in for a more immediate impact but worse long term benefits.

if those teams didn't have confidence those QBs would become great, they wouldn't have drafted them, wouldn't have signed them and wouldn't have played them. So saying that that arguement has no basis in reality is just plain wrong.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

Hey Irish, take that rubber off your head and maybe some of this shit will sink in...

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

no need for all the hate ;)

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

The thing we must remember about the Gibbs Ramsey relationship that may differ from other comparisions you mention is that before Gibbs conducted his first practice with the Redskins he had established "what he called an open competition" where the QB's were concerned. Ramsey had been considered the starter prior to Gibbs arival, and it would seem to me if Gibbs had the utmost confidence in Ramsey he would have automatically been given the opportunity to maintain his starting position going into the 04 season. Instead, halfway through the pre-season last year it had become clear that Brunell, not Ramsey would start the regular season. Further, I am not of the opinion that Ramsey playing at all last year had anything to do with confidence or lack thereof Gibbs may have had in him. The offence was going so poorly, the fans began to boo,and Gibbs was under pressure to do something in an attempt to get the team going. He had no one else to turn to but Ramsey because at that point in time he felt that move gave him the best opportunity to win. Had he had faith going into the season that PR could get the job done he probably would have been named the starter going into the season, as opposed to some nine games later.

Re: Dear Mark, I'm sorry...
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]no need for all the hate ;)[/QUOTE]

No No No, no hate intended, merely a stab at the avatar lol. I just dont usually use the smileys or whatever that convey a friendly/ribbing demeanor. Its rare that I will ever say anything hateful to anyone on this site, other than a dallas fan.