Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.[/QUOTE]

Yes,I am rubbed the wrong way.

Most of what you say is your opinion which you are entitled to. The only thing I take exception to is phrase "Ramsey is promised the starters job". There are no promises in pro football. Ramsey was #1 on the depth chart, but in the only opinion that counts he played his way down to #2. And lets be honest it was more than 1 quarter of football....preseason may not count in the standings but in terms of player evaluation it sure does count.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=celts32]Yes,I am rubbed the wrong way.

Most of what you say is your opinion which you are entitled to. The only thing I take exception to is phrase "Ramsey is promised the starters job". There are no promises in pro football. Ramsey was #1 on the depth chart, but in the only opinion that counts he played his way down to #2. And lets be honest it was more than 1 quarter of football....preseason may not count in the standings but in terms of player evaluation it sure does count.[/QUOTE]


Really, and here I thought it was the regular season that count's, we all saw what happened last year, apparently Brunell beat out Ramsey in the pre-season, then what? Well anyone who watched the games knows what happened, Brunell proceded to play the QB position about as bad as anyone has ever seen, against inferior competition, Ramsey comes in against Pitt, Phila twice, minnesota, 4 of his 6 games go against playoff teams, and 3 of those games against the best defenses in the NFL, and a lose to dallas that if Gibbs didn't go into his conservative shell on our last series and allow dallas another shot at us we would have won.

So I am very curious about pre season evaluation, obviously Gibbs didn't have a clue about evaluating Brunell last season, what makes you think when he was so far off then that he's got it right now?

As far as promises go there are promises, like giving a player a chance to prove himself, Gibbs sure stuck by his word for Brunell last season, and he was as horrible as I have ever seen, Ramsey gets 19 minutes and just finished what should have been a TD drive and that's all folks!


Bottom line for all the Brunell fans out there, 70 yds passing in almost 3 quarters, there's your sharpshooter in a nut shell!

And correction, all of what I have said is my opinion!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I'm in the hundred's now reading all the various post both pro and con relative to this great humanatarian crisis facing our beloved football team. Matty I ageee with your assesment of Patrick Ramsey in that it seems to more closely resemble how Gibbs feels about him as well. I see nothing hypocritical about the move, as a matter of fact I saw it coming at the end of last season for those of us truly famaliar with how JG operates. Gibbs ringing endorsements of Brunell at the end of last season lend credence to the fact we would see Brunell again this season at the most convenient opportunity. I have said many times before I could understand all the unflappable support for Ramsey if he had actually accomplished something in Burgandy and Gold, but that is not the case. We've all seen Brunell play and it's not like he's the savior, but I concur in Gibbs thinking that at this particular time he may offer us the best chance at winning. Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over. To demonstrate now that he was ever truly worthy of the lofty status bestowed upon him he must demonstrate he's a team player and not let his pouting attitude be a disruptive influence on the rest of the team. Depending on his attitude it could be that he might have another opportunity this season if things don't go well with Brunell. Save for his attitude Gibbs just might turn to Campbell if the latter does not work to his satisfaction.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan]Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over.[/QUOTE]

Good points. I was thinking of another cow analogy. I forget how it goes exactly, but it's something like "you want the steak but don't want to know how they slaughtered the cow."

Basically, above all else Gibbs has said he wants to bring another Super Bowl trophy to the Redskins. And I think that's what we all want. Along the way, some mistakes will be made, feelings could get hurt, players will get frustrated, and so on. It's not going to be pretty, and it wasn't always pretty all the other times Gibbs won Super Bowls. But nothing comes easy anyway

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan]I'm in the hundred's now reading all the various post both pro and con relative to this great humanatarian crisis facing our beloved football team. Matty I ageee with your assesment of Patrick Ramsey in that it seems to more closely resemble how Gibbs feels about him as well. I see nothing hypocritical about the move, as a matter of fact I saw it coming at the end of last season for those of us truly famaliar with how JG operates. Gibbs ringing endorsements of Brunell at the end of last season lend credence to the fact we would see Brunell again this season at the most convenient opportunity. I have said many times before I could understand all the unflappable support for Ramsey if he had actually accomplished something in Burgandy and Gold, but that is not the case. We've all seen Brunell play and it's not like he's the savior, but I concur in Gibbs thinking that at this particular time he may offer us the best chance at winning. Just because Gibbs named Ramsey the starter means absolutely nothing unless he's going to play well enough to maintain the status. Nothing is a given in the NFL you have to earn it. Ramsey is like the Cow that gives a good bucket of Milk then kicks it over. To demonstrate now that he was ever truly worthy of the lofty status bestowed upon him he must demonstrate he's a team player and not let his pouting attitude be a disruptive influence on the rest of the team. Depending on his attitude it could be that he might have another opportunity this season if things don't go well with Brunell. Save for his attitude Gibbs just might turn to Campbell if the latter does not work to his satisfaction.[/QUOTE]


And Brunell is like the guy milking the bull! :eek:

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

LOL but I think people should chill abit. Everyone is upset but if Joe Gibbs told me that he thought player A was better than player B in his offense, with his other players I would believe it.
Everyone is however entitled to their own opinion, but we are all just speculating because neither of these guys has really outperformed the other.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=steveo395]cuz brunell sucks and hes the starter when ramsey was better and he got benched
hes being a hipocrite because no one is aloud to suck except brunell[/QUOTE]

Your'e killing me with your spelling errors. Take your time and spell correctly so I can understand your point.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Okay, First time Poster here.

Don't know how far back some of you go, but do you remember Jay Schroeder. He was the starter and got hurt.

This was the season after Schroeder got ShellShocked in the loss to the Giants NFC Championship game.

Gibbs had a "rule" supposedly that you didn't lose your job due to injury. When Doug Williams came in and caught fire, the rule was out the window.

Schroeder fans were livid.

Then we won the super bowl, and they quieted down.

You may remember the last anyone really saw of old Jay was when we traded him to San Diego for one Jim (?) Lachey, who was really responsible (IMHO) for us winning the next super bowl.

My extended point here is that Joe is smart enough to admit (to himself at least) when he was wrong.

I am no Brunell fan, but I feel Ramsey looks like a fourth year rookie with no leadership skills.

He looks so worried about the INT he's holding the ball too long and making poor choices. He just wasn't maturing, not al least at NFL speed.

Brunell is clearly not the QB of the future, but neither was Ramsey.

Apparently, no other teams think so since you haven't heard any other interest in him if he left.

If Brunell takes us no where, put the rookie in around week 9.

Just my two cents.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.[/QUOTE]
NUFF SAID!!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]Okay, First time Poster here.

Don't know how far back some of you go, but do you remember Jay Schroeder. He was the starter and got hurt.

This was the season after Schroeder got ShellShocked in the loss to the Giants NFC Championship game.

Gibbs had a "rule" supposedly that you didn't lose your job due to injury. When Doug Williams came in and caught fire, the rule was out the window.

Schroeder fans were livid.

Then we won the super bowl, and they quieted down.

You may remember the last anyone really saw of old Jay was when we traded him to San Diego for one Jim (?) Lachey, who was really responsible (IMHO) for us winning the next super bowl.

My extended point here is that Joe is smart enough to admit (to himself at least) when he was wrong.

I am no Brunell fan, but I feel Ramsey looks like a fourth year rookie with no leadership skills.

He looks so worried about the INT he's holding the ball too long and making poor choices. He just wasn't maturing, not al least at NFL speed.

Brunell is clearly not the QB of the future, but neither was Ramsey.

Apparently, no other teams think so since you haven't heard any other interest in him if he left.

If Brunell takes us no where, put the rookie in around week 9.

Just my two cents.[/QUOTE]

dallas miami and the bears have all made offers over his career here even though he never actually sought a trade. If we dumped him, he'd have people bid for him, and there's enough bad teams that i'm sure he could even find a starting job in some places because he's still fairly young... (clev, bal, ari, etc)

other than that, welcome to the board, nice post ;)

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

With Brunell (the cannon) leading us Monday night, John Hall's thigh could become very big if he is not 100%. We need at least 5 field goals to beat them.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Really, and here I thought it was the regular season that count's, we all saw what happened last year, apparently Brunell beat out Ramsey in the pre-season, then what? Well anyone who watched the games knows what happened, Brunell proceded to play the QB position about as bad as anyone has ever seen, against inferior competition, Ramsey comes in against Pitt, Phila twice, minnesota, 4 of his 6 games go against playoff teams, and 3 of those games against the best defenses in the NFL, and a lose to dallas that if Gibbs didn't go into his conservative shell on our last series and allow dallas another shot at us we would have won.

So I am very curious about pre season evaluation, obviously Gibbs didn't have a clue about evaluating Brunell last season, what makes you think when he was so far off then that he's got it right now?

As far as promises go there are promises, like giving a player a chance to prove himself, Gibbs sure stuck by his word for Brunell last season, and he was as horrible as I have ever seen, Ramsey gets 19 minutes and just finished what should have been a TD drive and that's all folks!


Bottom line for all the Brunell fans out there, 70 yds passing in almost 3 quarters, there's your sharpshooter in a nut shell!

And correction, all of what I have said is my opinion![/QUOTE]

I am not a Brunell fan, I am a Joe Gibbs fan. All I care about is the redskins winning. Gibbs obviously doesn't think Ramsey can play. I had high hopes for Ramsey, so it's dissapointing. I just think Gibbs knows who can play QB in his offense better than I do.

Professional football is a harsh business. Ramsey may have been named the starter, but there were no promises made as to how long he would hold it.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]Okay, First time Poster here.

Don't know how far back some of you go, but do you remember Jay Schroeder. He was the starter and got hurt.

This was the season after Schroeder got ShellShocked in the loss to the Giants NFC Championship game.

Gibbs had a "rule" supposedly that you didn't lose your job due to injury. When Doug Williams came in and caught fire, the rule was out the window.

Schroeder fans were livid.

Then we won the super bowl, and they quieted down.

You may remember the last anyone really saw of old Jay was when we traded him to San Diego for one Jim (?) Lachey, who was really responsible (IMHO) for us winning the next super bowl.

My extended point here is that Joe is smart enough to admit (to himself at least) when he was wrong.

I am no Brunell fan, but I feel Ramsey looks like a fourth year rookie with no leadership skills.

He looks so worried about the INT he's holding the ball too long and making poor choices. He just wasn't maturing, not al least at NFL speed.

Brunell is clearly not the QB of the future, but neither was Ramsey.

Apparently, no other teams think so since you haven't heard any other interest in him if he left.

If Brunell takes us no where, put the rookie in around week 9.

Just my two cents.[/QUOTE]

You would endure 8 more weeks of Brunell not producing this year? You are much kinder and gentler person than I am. Ha Ha!!!!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

you're all conveniently forgetting Brunell was the worst QB in the NFL last year over a couple good showings in preseason games (and dismissing Ramsey's wins with the same exact team last season).

you can't ever call Philly fans bad, you're just as what-have-you-done-for-me-lately.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]Okay, First time Poster here.

Don't know how far back some of you go, but do you remember Jay Schroeder. He was the starter and got hurt.

This was the season after Schroeder got ShellShocked in the loss to the Giants NFC Championship game.

Gibbs had a "rule" supposedly that you didn't lose your job due to injury. When Doug Williams came in and caught fire, the rule was out the window.

Schroeder fans were livid.

Then we won the super bowl, and they quieted down.

You may remember the last anyone really saw of old Jay was when we traded him to San Diego for one Jim (?) Lachey, who was really responsible (IMHO) for us winning the next super bowl.

My extended point here is that Joe is smart enough to admit (to himself at least) when he was wrong.

I am no Brunell fan, but I feel Ramsey looks like a fourth year rookie with no leadership skills.

He looks so worried about the INT he's holding the ball too long and making poor choices. He just wasn't maturing, not al least at NFL speed.

Brunell is clearly not the QB of the future, but neither was Ramsey.

Apparently, no other teams think so since you haven't heard any other interest in him if he left.

If Brunell takes us no where, put the rookie in around week 9.

Just my two cents.[/QUOTE]


Welcome JG, I go way back to the early George Allen day's, and remember the Schroeder situation well, [by the way he was traded to the raiders not san diego] Schroeder was becoming stagnet on offense he pretty much ran his coarse with us and wasen't progressing to the next level as a QB, the question wasen't so much about replacing Jay, as much as it was can Williams get the job done? Gibbs went back and forth a couple of times early when Jay was hurt, and Williams to his credit was doing a better job, there wasen't a big difference performance wise between the 2 but Williams was getting the better of it, but the bottom line is we really can't find a situation where Gibbs didn't give his starter a real chance to prove himself until Ramsey, a lot of people want to judge the pre-season and anoint Brunell, but remember during 2 of our SB years we won a combined 1 game in the pre-season, how good do you think our QB's looked? How good did Theisman look when we started off the 82 season 0-6, After going 0-5 in the pre-season? Bottom line until this scenerio plays itself out we will all continue to agree to disagree, I just feel regardless that Ramsey really has been given a raw deal.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]Okay, First time Poster here.

Don't know how far back some of you go, but do you remember Jay Schroeder. He was the starter and got hurt.

This was the season after Schroeder got ShellShocked in the loss to the Giants NFC Championship game.

Gibbs had a "rule" supposedly that you didn't lose your job due to injury. When Doug Williams came in and caught fire, the rule was out the window.

Schroeder fans were livid.

Then we won the super bowl, and they quieted down.

You may remember the last anyone really saw of old Jay was when we traded him to San Diego for one Jim (?) Lachey, who was really responsible (IMHO) for us winning the next super bowl.

My extended point here is that Joe is smart enough to admit (to himself at least) when he was wrong.

I am no Brunell fan, but I feel Ramsey looks like a fourth year rookie with no leadership skills.

He looks so worried about the INT he's holding the ball too long and making poor choices. He just wasn't maturing, not al least at NFL speed.

Brunell is clearly not the QB of the future, but neither was Ramsey.

Apparently, no other teams think so since you haven't heard any other interest in him if he left.

If Brunell takes us no where, put the rookie in around week 9.

Just my two cents.[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify Schroeder was traded to the Raiders, not the Chargers. Later Stan Humphries ended up with the Chargers, whom he led to a Superbowl, which they lost, I believe to the 49ers.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

NOUN:
pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness.

The thing I am not sure of, was it Gibb's or PR who shot JFK?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Brunell sucks and Ramsey sucks we got a rookie we are trying to get by until we see if the rook sucks.. thats all, if Ramsey was so good he would be good by now not only is he not good he is a turnover machine. Brunnell is a bubble gum armed Gibbs pick up. Ramsey looks like a deer in the headlights, Brunnell looks like a has been. Ramsey holds the ball and cant throw accurate at all.. Brunnell's mind knows where he wants to go with the ball but his body cant do it. I am sorry fellas but i have given up on Ramsey and Brunnell....No need to argue. just if our o-line can protect Brunnell a little bit he wont turn it over. did you see that play when Gibbs tried to roll Ramsey out the pocket.. the Bears fans at the bar laughed their asses off. its obvious to everyone Ramsey sucks.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]its not about Brunell? its about anybody who's next because those 20 minutes were so horrid? and when Brunell gets his first turnover, does it go to Campbell? Ramsey? probably not huh. Gibbs has his favorites, there's no denying it.[/QUOTE]

Do you really think Gibbs decison was based on just the 20 minutes of game 1? Even during 2004 summer (offseason) Gibbs watched all of the film of Ramsey and he still brought in Brunell. He saw the same things I see in Ramsey, he really was not very then and is still not good right now. Why is that so hard to accept?
Go ahead and keep on blaming Gibbs and Brunell. The truth is it is ultimatley Ramsey fault for not improving his game.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Yes - were in the playoffs if had hung on to beat the Cowboys and knowing we had beat the Vikings the following week. That was fact. That was all we had to do to make the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

The FACT is we did not make the playoffs.

The only reason we were still mathematically and remotely still in the playoff race is most of the NFC sucks and the AFC was beating up on NFC teams. Last year other than Philly, there was no other legit superbowl winning contender.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

i just wan to win baby, i've liked ramsey from the beginning. but for every good thing he does, he shoots himself in the foot.it's not personal it's just the turn overs. he's been harping on it all preseason and what does ramsey do the first game? turn it over 3 times in the first half.gibbs first loyalty needs to be to winning period. yes, ramsey thows better and stronger and longer but until he gets this turnover thing taken care of he'll continue to be his own worst enemy.i hope he does.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.



Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.[/QUOTE]


You've summed it all up and I agree with you. Hope you've got your flak jacket on though, because the slings and arrows will be coming your way.

BTW - At least 2 sports writers on the Post are just as shocked and befuddled by this as many of us are - read Wilbon and Mike Wise's columns in today's Post. Wise really nails it in his column.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Get out... sports writers are jumping on board against this decision? Who woulda thunk it.

Let me make a bold prediction, I know this might be crazy talk but I feel a scathing Lenny P. article in the works. Yeah I know, crazy, but call it a feeling.

Funny how 99% of the time we blast the writers, but now they're right.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Welcome JG, I go way back to the early George Allen day's, and remember the Schroeder situation well, [by the way he was traded to the raiders not san diego] Schroeder was becoming stagnet on offense he pretty much ran his coarse with us and wasen't progressing to the next level as a QB, the question wasen't so much about replacing Jay, as much as it was can Williams get the job done? Gibbs went back and forth a couple of times early when Jay was hurt, and Williams to his credit was doing a better job, there wasen't a big difference performance wise between the 2 but Williams was getting the better of it, but the bottom line is we really can't find a situation where Gibbs didn't give his starter a real chance to prove himself until Ramsey, a lot of people want to judge the pre-season and anoint Brunell, but remember during 2 of our SB years we won a combined 1 game in the pre-season, how good do you think our QB's looked? How good did Theisman look when we started off the 82 season 0-6, After going 0-5 in the pre-season? Bottom line until this scenerio plays itself out we will all continue to agree to disagree, I just feel regardless that Ramsey really has been given a raw deal.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you Offiss. I think Ramsey has been slighted by Gibbs since day 1 and while I am a fan of Coach Gibbs, I can't go along with supporting Brunnell. At this point, it would appear that it's more a matter of finances than talent when it comes to putting Brunnell at QB. Gibbs busted his a$$ to get Brunnell here and refuses to let him sit the bench for millions of dollars, despite his lack of ability to perform on the field. I know Gibbs preaches no turnovers and many of us say that winners don't turn the ball over, but the last time I checked the rulebook, the team with the most points wins the game. I don't see our offense having much of chance to ring up points with Brunnell at the helm, but I guess we'll find out Monday night.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Get out... sports writers are jumping on board against this decision? Who woulda thunk it.

Let me make a bold prediction, I know this might be crazy talk but I feel a scathing Lenny P. article in the works. Yeah I know, crazy, but call it a feeling.

Funny how 99% of the time we blast the writers, but now they're right.[/QUOTE]

well, its funny how people here blast the writers even when they are right too, just because they don't think we'll be in playoffs every year.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[quote]Illdefined, you do realize that was last season, it's a different season/situation now?[/quote]

Redskins rat -- couldn't this same argument be used that Gibbs only success came in the 80's? Isn't the NFL a different situation now? Yet it's still hounded into our head that we should base all of his actions now like he's been in the NFL ever since.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

No One On This Forum Is On Redskins Payroll With Job Title: Coach.
Let Coach Gibbs, Coach This Team. Let's Give Him All The Support We Can...as You Can See The Fans' Support Helps A Lot As In Game 1-costing The Bears 3 Consecutive False Starts Ending At A 3rd And 38 On A Almost Sure-fire Scoring Drive That May Have Costed Us The Game.

Be Supportive Of The Coach, He Has Lead To Greatness Before And I Am Sure As Hell Hoping He Can Lead Us There Again...it Is Only Season 2, Week 2 (coming).

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

While It is absolutely true that Brunell had an overall lower QB rating last year than PR (74.8 vs 63.0), the turnover stat is way off balance.

PR threw only [u][b]14.77%[/b][/u] more passes than MB (272 vs 237), but had [b][u]83.33%[/u][/b] more INT's.

See: [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular"]http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular[/url]

A mediocre QB sure aint going to win you many games, but he can lose them very quickly.

J

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Do you really think Gibbs decison was based on just the 20 minutes of game 1? Even during 2004 summer (offseason) Gibbs watched all of the film of Ramsey and he still brought in Brunell. He saw the same things I see in Ramsey, he really was not very then and is still not good right now. Why is that so hard to accept?
Go ahead and keep on blaming Gibbs and Brunell. The truth is it is ultimatley Ramsey fault for not improving his game.[/QUOTE]

why won't ANYBODY hold Brunell accountable for being the worst QB in the league last year? and why did everyone FORGET that Ramsey WON games with the exact same *bad* offense? these are regular season games, is it ok to base your decisions on regular season games? you guys would rather choose based on second halves of preseason games with and against 2nd stringers versus what happened the ENTIRE 2004 SEASON?

Brunell himself says there was NO injury, says his arm ISN'T any stronger than last year (go ahead ask me for the quotes), and i'm fairly certain he didn't get any younger. he sure looked good in practice against friends or the second half in those preseason games though didn't he?

would YOU base your decisions on that and just ignore last season (or Brunell's own comments) or do you all just have blind faith in Joe Gibbs? if so, THATS FINE, BUT SAY SO. don't ever say Brunell "outplayed" Ramsey in any game that counted, because he *never has*.

and before anybody in the blind faith category tries to say last season doesn't matter (but the 80s somehow does), i think there's an established consensus that Gibbs was wrong about Brunell before. if you need proof of his fallibility just look to last season.


Coach Gibbs is and will be the best coach the Skins have ever had , but you can't expect it to be instant or that what he knew from the past applies perfectly to today. it will take time.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

When is everyone gonna stop crying? Whats done is done. Brunell is our QB point blank. Get over it. Please!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Get out... sports writers are jumping on board against this decision? Who woulda thunk it.

Let me make a bold prediction, I know this might be crazy talk but I feel a scathing Lenny P. article in the works. Yeah I know, crazy, but call it a feeling.

Funny how 99% of the time we blast the writers, but now they're right.[/QUOTE]

well, for what it's worth, she wasn't quoting FOX News or ESPN, she was quoting The Washington Post.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

My Sentiments Exactly...fellow fan and friend!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I do not buy into the theory that Gibbs is trying to save himself from picking up Brunell. First Gibbs did not negotiate his contract the front office and Snyder did. I do not think Gibbs would bring down a team just because of the money spent on Brunell. 42 mill is a drop in the basket for Snyder and the money he has wasted on picks. Gibbs might be a little embarrassed over Brunell and what he was paid but I do not think he would jeopardies the Skins. What you are saying is that he would put in a loosing QB to make his picking Brunell look better. That would just be adding insult to injury and make you look even worse.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]When is everyone gonna stop crying? Whats done is done. Brunell is our QB point blank. Get over it. Please![/QUOTE]

Well said.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]When is everyone gonna stop crying? Whats done is done. Brunell is our QB point blank. Get over it. Please![/QUOTE]

I thought Ramsey was a grown man. But instead it's like he's like a little 6-year old on a Pop Warner team and his mommy (playing the part of Mama Ramsey today will be countless Warpathers) has being going to coach saying "Why isn't my little Patrick playing?"

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]While It is absolutely true that Brunell had an overall lower QB rating last year than PR (74.8 vs 63.0), the turnover stat is way off balance.

PR threw only [u][b]14.77%[/b][/u] more passes than MB (272 vs 237), but had [b][u]83.33%[/u][/b] more INT's.

See: [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular"]http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular[/url]

A mediocre QB sure aint going to win you many games, but he can lose them very quickly.

J[/QUOTE]

lose games?? while you were looking at those stats, how did you miss that Brunell was the one with the least points and all the L's.

INTs can sometimes be a sideffect of POINTS, something Ramsey got more of and above turnovers, is ultimately the one stat that really determines WINS.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]When is everyone gonna stop crying? Whats done is done. Brunell is our QB point blank. Get over it. Please![/QUOTE]

this is a discussion forum, this is the place for discussion. go to extremee skins to tell people to shut up without an argument.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]lose games?? while you were looking at those stats, how did you miss that Brunell was the one with the least points and all the L's.

INTs can sometimes be a sideffect of POINTS, something Ramsey got more of and above turnovers, is ultimately the one stat that really determines WINS.[/QUOTE]

The TD % is not nearly as skewed as the INT %.

The TD % for PR is 3.7% and 3.0% for MB. Not that big a diff., compared to INT's

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]The TD % is not nearly as skewed as the INT %.

The TD % for PR is 3.7% and 3.0% for MB. Not that big a diff., compared to INT's[/QUOTE]

whats the W/L%?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]this is a discussion forum, this is the place for discussion. go to extremee skins to tell people to shut up without an argument.[/QUOTE]


No shit it's a discussion forum. But all I see is back and forth about the same subject. Move on. Let's focus on beating the Cowboys. Why don't you go to extreme skins since you know so much about it. Stop whining while you're at it.