Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897]wow so you heard that the WR ran an incorrect route on the play? that sorta irks me a little more. to which WR was the pass intended does anybody remember? i also got the feeling that the 'injury' was just an excuse to get brunell in there while only causing a minimal amount of trouble; i just had that feeling.

this is just the type of situation typical of a struggling franchise. these are things that are supposed to be sorted out in the preseason. who'd have thought we only 20 minutes or so to sort things out? way to go.

well i'll complain a bit here but come monday we should all be cheering brunell on.

go skins[/QUOTE]


I don't know if anyone answered your post but the pass looked intended for Patten who was supposed to run a combination route with Moss. I think Moss was running a stop or an out while Patten ran a slant, but Patten never ran a route. As Patten turns toward Ramsey the ball is thrown to the inside and patten is standing their.....Anyway......There is a video clip of this in the forums. I watched it over and over again and it looks like it was NO fault of Ramsey's. Looks like patten is taking a sh**.

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[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Funny how the truth comes out from the team, who watches a hell of lot more film than any of the guys on this forum, that the WR ran the wrong route. I don't think one person on the this forum even mentions that, yet all we here Gibbs blah..blah..blah, Brunell...blah..blah...blah...my precious (Gibbs and Brunell is like Gollum and the Ring from Lord of the Rings). I would love to hear people continue to go off about how friggin great Gibbs is, and yeah I am being a tough SOB, but hey this is the NFL or NOT FOR LONG as Jerry Glanville used to say. I am sick of this team being mediocre a shell of its once proud self.

So for all of you Ramsey bashers what do you have to say now, that the truth is coming out from the players that the pass, the INT that everyone here grilled Ramsey for was not his fault but the WR. St. Joe of Gibbs seems to be awful quiet about that, seems to bring his credibity into serious question. I just hope that this does not end up dividing the team, but it is going happen, because Brunell is what is is, old and washed up, and 5 yards per completion.[/QUOTE]


I agree 100%. Best post on this thread man.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Yawn. Is it Monday night yet?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Yawn. Is it Monday night yet?[/QUOTE]

This is going to be the lonnnnngest weekend...and then a bye! Ugh

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]This is going to be the lonnnnngest weekend...and then a bye! Ugh[/QUOTE]

This is why we all have Madden 2006.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]According to what's widely understood regarding the front office setup, Snyder is the primary negotiator. I highly doubt Gibbs played any sort of a notable role in the number crunching aspect of Brunell's contract.[/QUOTE]

You're probably right, Gibbs didn't get involved in the number crunching on Brunell's contract. But the front office (Vinnie, Danny, etc.) certainly knew that Gibbs wanted him and wanted him badly. That probably led to the overblown contract that MB ended up with.

Oh well, it's water under the bridge now. From Danny's point of view, it's better to have a $42M player actually playing rather than holding the clipboard.

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If anyone here thinks Gibbs doesn't a real incentive to make Brunell succeed their only kidding themselves, he convinced Snyder to shell out 42 mil for this guy, I don't care how much power Gibbs has within the organazation he is spending someone elses money, signing a player is one thing, giving up a #2 for a player that was going to be released is another, but handing him 42 mil is a real problem, first a contract like that is really gonna go a long way to limiting other players we can sign to help the team as a whole, and secondly you have to explain to your employer why he's shelling 42 mil for a backup at best.

Then we can couple that with the Portis signing in which Gibbs gave up Bailey who would have bought back some nice draft picks, and a #2 pick along with 50 mil for a and I will say it again, A SYSTEM BACK! He does not fit what Gibbs wants to do or has done in the past, and yet whenever Gibbs is asked he say's he thinks Portis is a power guy, I have yet to see Portis move a pile or convert a third and short, I don't care how much weight he puts on he's not a power guy he's a speed and finase type back, which is fine if you committ to useing him that way, the problem lies that Gibbs now has to change what won him 3 SB's to accomadate his back, does anyone believe he's not trying to do whatever he has to to justify that move? It's not like he has said I screwed up Clinton is not the kind of back that fit's what I have done and what I want to do.

We now find out that IMO the best play calling coach in the NFL his first tenure is no longer calling the plays, we have Musgrave sending down plays, yes they go through Gibbs, but why? He never needed that before one of his greatest strengths as a coach is now in the hands of a coach Jacksonville couldn't get rid of fast enough, yes the same team that rivalled us with points scored last season.

I will say this and have said it in the past I don't lay Ramsey problems at his feet, and I don't even believe Brunell is as bad as he has looked, I blame Gibbs and a simplistic aproach to offense, which other defenses last season said more than once their not running anything remotly difficult to figure out, Portis himself kept saying the defenses know what we are running.

Bottom line Gibbs spent 92 million on 2 players who are not what we need and now has to look Snyder in the face everyday, if Gibbs is going to judge himself as he has stated, and that is, what's in the past is in the past, he will be judged by what he does now, how many second year coaches can spend 92 mil for 2 players that don't fit, or are washed up?

And I don't want to here about Portis's 1300 yds Gibbs probably took 2 seasons off his NFL carreer with the pounding he took trying to get him to match what he did in denver, he could have set a record for the most yards with the least yards per carry.

All we keep hearing is how much of a prideful man Gibbs is, well I believe his pride right now is not allowing him to admit to 2 huge mistakes, and has him doing anything he can to justify those moves, I still believe Portis is a tremendous talent, but is Gibbs capable of utilizing it? Personally I feel he is lost as a coach right now.

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[QUOTE=LadyT]I would agree with you about the possibility of Ramsey getting his job back, were it not for the drafting of Campbell. Let's not forget what Gibbs has done from the first day he came back in terms of QBs. First, Gibbs immediately pursued the aging Brunell and signed him to an absurdly large contract which even the most ardent of Brunell/Gibbs devotees must admit is a joke. Next year, he gives up the barn to get Campbell. That's a 1-2 punch and, to me, clearly indicates he doesn't plan on having Ramsey be a part of this team much beyond this year.[/QUOTE]

Please take a minute to read what you wrote. A nullified TD from Ramsey to Cooley did not win the game. Three drives by Brunell led to 9 points which won the game. Be honest with yourself. Do you care who leads this team to victory or are you more concerned about being right? Sometimes we all get so wrapped up in our own thinking that we miss the big picture. If Brunell leads us to a victory over Dallas will those of you who disliked Gibb's decision turn around and give him credit for the win. Because let me tell you something, all the energy we are spending on who should or shouldn't lead this team, Cowboys fans are licking their chops and laughing at 14 out of 15 games we have loss.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Portis may be a smaller back, but I don't think it's correct to totally write him off as a back who doesn't play with power. Personally I saw a back running with some power last weekend, he busted some tackles and consistently was falling forward when hit.

Besides, this isn't the first time Gibbs has made changes to his system to accomodate his talent. He's won with power backs and he's had his share of smaller guys too.

[url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=7671"]Burns is calling the plays[/url], not Musgrave. Musgrave is down on the field with the QBs.

Now people are crabbin' about the running game?? I must have been watching a different game because I saw a hell of a running game last week.

Last week Portis averaged over 5 yards a pop. Betts has taken on a bigger load, seems to me that Gibbs has learned a thing or two about his talent and is intent on not running Portis into the ground again.

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[size=7]1-0.[/size]

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[QUOTE=RedskinRat][size=7]1-0.[/size][/QUOTE]


Amen! Thats all that matters to me.

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Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game[/QUOTE]


???????????

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game[/QUOTE]

back in game 2 right? yeah, and i suppose all of Brunell's losses after that were close enough not to yank him. sigh. all his passes sure were ugly though.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]back in game 2 right? yeah, and i suppose all of Brunell's losses after that were close enough not to yank him. sigh. all his passes sure were ugly though.[/QUOTE]


Not to mention his fumble, but here we go again, Brunell throws 1 INT and turns the ball over on a fumble and all anyone can talk about is Ramsey's 3 INT's, 1 of which would have never happened if Gardner could remotly catch a pass any 8 year old could catch for a TD.

Yet Brunell did nothing in the 3 quarters he played except dig a hole Ramsey almost pulled us out of in a little over 1 quarter, and would have if it wasen't for Gardner.

Oh yea how did Ramsey look in his next start against the Giant's I believe he kicked their a**'s up and down the field, so much for blaming Ramsey for the first Giant lose!

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Please take a minute to read what you wrote. A nullified TD from Ramsey to Cooley did not win the game. Three drives by Brunell led to 9 points which won the game. Be honest with yourself. Do you care who leads this team to victory or are you more concerned about being right? Sometimes we all get so wrapped up in our own thinking that we miss the big picture. If Brunell leads us to a victory over Dallas will those of you who disliked Gibb's decision turn around and give him credit for the win. Because let me tell you something, all the energy we are spending on who should or shouldn't lead this team, Cowboys fans are licking their chops and laughing at 14 out of 15 games we have loss.[/QUOTE]


The point I was trying to make, though maybe not very clearly, is that all of our scoring came from our kicker. If I recall correctly, kicking was a big part of our scoring last year too. With Hall out (at least for the next game) and an unknown kicker taking over, I am very worried. Why? Because our offense has not shown the capability to consistently score TDs, not last year and not last week. Thiree field goals may have worked with the Bears. I don't think it will continue to be a key to success with other teams who have good offenses and can put up the points on us.

If we win against Dallas, I will be extremely happy. And it doesn't really matter if we, the Skins fans are focusing on one thing, and Dallas fans are focusing on something else. Because we, the fans, don't play the game.

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[QUOTE=Hog1]Yes it is the NFL. To paraphrase Mark Schlereth from an interview aired last night ESPN. Q-Did Coach Gibbs pull Ramsey fast? Mark-yes. Q-To fast? Mark-it's the NFL, thats how it works! Q-What would you have done? Mark-I would have pulled him to. He had most of last season, all summer, mini-camps, training camp, etc, etc, etc to impress the coaching staff, and take the team, he failed. You cannot not win in the NFL turning the ball over. Q-How do you think Ramsey should handle it? Mark-He's a big boy, this is the NFL, and he'll get over it!

Actually, I am not a Ramsey basher, but a supporter. I would have pulled him, with absolutely NO sign of improvement. It's not about a quarter of play or one errant pass or decision. It is about dozens of them. Potential is not enough, ask Jeff George[/QUOTE]

So based upon your own criteria then, why in the hell did we have to endure that dreadfullness, which was Mark Brunell for nine games last year? Brunell was not getting it done, yet it is nothing but excuses, excuses, the hammy this, no time with the new offense, and on and on it goes. That is what has a lot of people irked is the blatant double standard. Why is it that all of the sports columinst are now taking shots at St. Joe?

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Receivers run the wrong routes from time to time, no one brought it up because its just something that happens. I'm sure it has and will happen to brunell as well.

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im going to the game on Monday but it wont be the same because i really dont believe the Skins have to good a chance to win in Dallas with Brunell under center. I was looking forward to watching Ramsey take this team this season and see what he could do win or lose. Too bad the rest of the team along with the fans have to suffer thru another bad season.

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[QUOTE=Monk-Fan]im going to the game on Monday but it wont be the same because i really dont believe the Skins have to good a chance to win in Dallas with Brunell under center. I was looking forward to watching Ramsey take this team this season and see what he could do win or lose. Too bad the rest of the team along with the fans have to suffer thru another bad season.[/QUOTE]

You should donate the tickets to someone who will go root for the Skins

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OK, I'm not looking for Gibbs to U turn over Ramsey, but I have to ask a few questions about this situation:

1) If Joe was so hot on signing Brunell, do you feel that indicated back then that he had little or no faith in Ramey?
2) If the answer to 1) is yes, then why didn't he trade Ramsey when he had chance and bring in a rookie QB last year, and go with Hass to back up Brunell?
3) Why, when he was so determined to get Campbell, didn't he admit he had no faith in Ramsey and trade him before this season (instead of naming him starter)? Bear in mind his stock will have gone down compared to what it was at draft time.
4) Why did he watch Ramsey make mistakes over 4 pre season games then wait until he had an excuse to yank him in game 1?

Whatever happens, I want us to beat the Pokes Monday, WHOEVER is under centre. But I'm concerned about the way some of these decisions have been made since Joe came back. I can't help thinking he had a GM last time he was here.....

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]You should donate the tickets to someone who will go root for the Skins[/QUOTE]

Why should he donate his tickets? He is going to the game, it seems to me, he just being a realist about things. TAFKAS you believe Brunell is the answer, myself and Monk-Fan think otherwise. We are all still rooting for the team, as Abe Lincoln said, a house divided cannot stand.

If Brunell takes the team to the promised land I will eat my own words, and will take whatever humble pie is dished out. Based off what I saw last year, Brunell's age, and that he has not finished the past two seasons as the starter, makes me seriously question or doubt his ability to do this.

I want the team to succeed. My only fear is that this move by Gibbs is going to be a distraction and could potentially destabilize the locker room, or divide the players, thus far there are no quotes from Redskin's Park to indicate this is happening.

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[QUOTE=DirtBagZ] My only fear is that this move by Gibbs is going to be a distraction and could potentially destabilize the locker room, or divide the players, thus far there are no quotes from Redskin's Park to indicate this is happening.[/QUOTE]


Give the coaching staff a little more credit. Whether people agree with this decision or not doesn't mean the staff doesn't know how to keep this team together. Gibbs has benched alot of "fan favorites" at the QB position throughout his entire coaching career. Things obivously worked out just fine.

These players are professionals. This is a team sport. We win as a team, lose as a team. This team wants to win, and the coaching staff is going to do what they feel is necessary to win. It might not always be what we like or agree with, but this present staff knows what it takes to be winners.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Why should he donate his tickets? He is going to the game, it seems to me, he just being a realist about things. TAFKAS you believe Brunell is the answer, myself and Monk-Fan think otherwise. We are all still rooting for the team, as Abe Lincoln said, a house divided cannot stand.

If Brunell takes the team to the promised land I will eat my own words, and will take whatever humble pie is dished out. Based off what I saw last year, Brunell's age, and that he has not finished the past two seasons as the starter, makes me seriously question or doubt his ability to do this.

I want the team to succeed. My only fear is that this move by Gibbs is going to be a distraction and could potentially destabilize the locker room, or divide the players, thus far there are no quotes from Redskin's Park to indicate this is happening.[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt that you want the team to succeed. And I don't doubt that you know I wish the same. What bugs me, and I'm sure countless others, is the constant "end of the world" attitude that has been prevalent here the past few days. All this "too bad the season's over and we're going to suck again" talk. I don't get it.

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[QUOTE=skinsguy]Give the coaching staff a little more credit. Whether people agree with this decision or not doesn't mean the staff doesn't know how to keep this team together. Gibbs has benched alot of "fan favorites" at the QB position throughout his entire coaching career. Things obivously worked out just fine.

These players are professionals. This is a team sport. We win as a team, lose as a team. This team wants to win, and the coaching staff is going to do what they feel is necessary to win. It might not always be what we like or agree with, but this present staff knows what it takes to be winners.[/QUOTE]

I agree...
lavar and cooley were at least surprised, but if theres one thing gibbs has been good at, its keeping a team together. This whole deal seems a break of character from how he usually operates, but unless goes and throws 3 picks, I don't think we'll see any hint of player dissension

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I don't doubt that you want the team to succeed. And I don't doubt that you know I wish the same. What bugs me, and I'm sure countless others, is the constant "end of the world" attitude that has been prevalent here the past few days. All this "too bad the season's over and we're going to suck again" talk. I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

TAFKAS you quoted my entire post, but to answer your question with regard to, "too bad the season's over ans we're going to suck agian" talk. I don't get it". I will reiterate this one point.

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Based off what I saw last year, Brunell's age, and that he has not finished the past two seasons as the starter, makes me seriously question or doubt his ability to do this.[/QUOTE]

From what I have seen as Joe the Fan, I have seen nothing from Brunell to indicate that he can consitently put touchdowns up on the board. There have been some posters who were at the game, and watched the Bears secondary unit as a whole play a lot closer in to the line of scrimmage once Brunell was the QB. Whereas when Ramsey was out there they playd more off of the line, this was from someone with a view of the whole game, instead of the microscope that is TV. Teams are not going to respect Brunell's arm, period they are going to challenge us, dare us to throw.

If Brunell can do this then great, we should be a winning team. I however, in my own thinking, and opinion, DO NOT believe that Mark Brunell at this stage in his career can do this, nor can he hold up physically for a full season. Given Brunell's age, and the fact that in your thirties even if you are a pro athlete you are just not as physically gifted as you were when you were younger. This is why I am pessimistic about this season.

Ramsey I felt had the potential to make us a better team by stretching the field. Gibbs has made his decision though, and no matter how much I may not agree with it, I am going to root for the team.

This enough of the QB controversy talk for me. It is Dallas week, and thus far I do not think I have said what really needs to be said, "I HATE THE DALLAS COWBOYS, I hate the Cowboys, I hate the stars on their helmets, I hate Texas Stadium, and one thing there is no way they are or will ever be America's Team"

Hail to the Redskins!