Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]sounds tempting for some early draft choices, but Ramsey is needed here right now as backup, Brunell WILL get smacked down this season and Jason Campbell isn't near ready yet to lead this offense[/QUOTE]

we put gasoline on a guys confidence and light it... and now you expect him to give a 100% as a backup? No better time than now for good ol' campbell to learn the ropes

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I hope we don't trade a quarterback of such great potential value.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

unless brunell doesn't break his old back or get hurt within the next 4 weeks ramsey is done as a skin, the only thing we are risking is looking like fools when ramsey starts hooking up with receivers if he ends up on another team. His potential value means jack shit in terms of being a redskin.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I agee BigSkin, at this point Ramsey has no value to the team...in terms of the future that is. And a team in dire need of a QB right now may be willing to part with a higher pick than later on after the season ends when more talent may be available.

This may be our and Patrick's window of opportunity.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]we put gasoline on a guys confidence and light it... and now you expect him to give a 100% as a backup? No better time than now for good ol' campbell to learn the ropes[/QUOTE]

i'd expect Ramsey to give 200%. at the very least to show his worth to the league, since Gibbs apparently already moved on.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I really wish him the best in NY or wherever he ends up. He really deserves it.

But if he ends up with the Jets, who in the hell will he throw too? Did Coles fall that far off the map? His stats were horrible yesterday.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

If I was JG I'd be speaking to NY and Baltimore now and seeing what they want to do. If a 2nd or 3rd rounder comes up (especially off the Ravens as they are looking like they will get a high pick next year) I'd give it serious thought.

I'd like to have seen PR succeed here, but it's obvious JG will let him go sooner or later. There are a few FA QB's out there who could come in and play 2nd or 3rd string in his absence. I'd look for a trade now while teams are in real need, thus increasing his value (artificially?).

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Just kind of an afterthought here...

...but isn't it funny how quickly all the allegiances to Ramsey changed when Brunell won the Cowboys game?

Now we're like, "Hmmm, what can we get for Ramsey?"[/QUOTE]

How about the people who defended Patrick Ramsey's woeful performances during preseason, who lectured us about not making knee-jerk reactions, then jumped ship along with Joe Gibbs after less than a half of play in favor of Brunell, all while telling us that Gibbs' knee-jerk reaction is justified because, ... well, he's Joe Gibbs.

And to say anything negative about Joe Gibbs, Redskin personnel decisions, or Patrick Ramsey's play is to be fairweather, or worse yet, a surreptitious Cowboy fan.

Human nature, I guess.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Just kind of an afterthought here...

...but isn't it funny how quickly all the allegiances to Ramsey changed when Brunell won the Cowboys game?

Now we're like, "Hmmm, what can we get for Ramsey?"[/QUOTE]

A lot of people don't have an allegiance besides the redskins... I just want whatever helps us win personally. The other part is that if ramsey isn't going to play, than whats better, a benchwarmer or a high draft pick? It's just being realistic.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I guess it was only a matter of time that people started calling out Ramsey fans. By the same token, can we laugh and rub anyone's nose in it if Brunell starts tanking?

People are ready to declare Ramsey or Brunell the next Joe Montana. Let's be honest, Ramsey definately isn't Montana and all this praise of Brunell is based on 3 minutes of excellent play (vs. 117 minutes of pretty piss poor play).

I still stick by my preference of Ramsey over Brunell, but let's just discuss the Redskins in peace. There will be time to rub noses into the ground when the season is done and we see how we fare. :cheers

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

Just pointing out a fact...

A LOT of people are taking this as an "I told you so."

The whole meaning behind this was basically to state how happy I am that no one is defending Ramsey tooth and nail now.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Just pointing out a fact...

A LOT of people are taking this as an "I told you so."

The whole meaning behind this was basically to state how happy I am that no one is defending Ramsey tooth and nail now.[/QUOTE]

cause its pretty obvious he's done regardless of what any of us think and this thread isn't about him vs brunell, its about whether he's help us more as a backup or a draft pick/trade.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

The only benefits Ramsey poses for this team right now is his ass warming up the bench for brunell on those cold december(and hopefully January) days or his ass being traded for something that could help this team

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I guess it was only a matter of time that people started calling out Ramsey fans. By the same token, can we laugh and rub anyone's nose in it if Brunell starts tanking?

People are ready to declare Ramsey or Brunell the next Joe Montana. Let's be honest, Ramsey definately isn't Montana and all this praise of Brunell is based on 3 minutes of excellent play (vs. 117 minutes of pretty piss poor play).

I still stick by my preference of Ramsey over Brunell, but let's just discuss the Redskins in peace. There will be time to rub noses into the ground when the season is done and we see how we fare. :cheers[/QUOTE]


I agree 100% RF! Although I could really care less which guy is in there, as long as we're producing the wins!

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]If somebody were to offer a 1st rounder I think the Skins would have to think long and hard about it even if it means leaving a rookie behind Brunell... but I doubt that would happen.[/QUOTE]

I would have to think if someone offered us a first rounder for PR we'ld be all over that. We could use it to upgrade and add depth at several positions.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I have my doubts that any team in this league is willing to offer up a 1st round pick for a QB who still hasn't proven himself yet - especially midway through the season. No matter how good Ramsey might be for another team (hoping he does have lots of success,) he is still going to have to come in and learn a brand new system midway through the regular season.

If there is to be a mid-season acquisition, a 3rd rounder would be the very best in my opinion.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I was reading over at gangreen.com that Penningtons career could indeed be over. Wouldnt that be somthing.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

Aren't we jumping the gun a little here guys? YES!!!!

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]I was reading over at gangreen.com that Penningtons career could indeed be over. Wouldnt that be somthing.[/QUOTE]


That would really suck for Pennington!

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Gibbs already "allegedly" stated that if Brunell were to go down for a significant period of time, Campbell, not Ramsey would be the guy.QUOTE]


I doubt very seriously that Gibbs ever said that. First of all it doesn't make sense. Even if Brunell is hurt and out and extended amount of time, why would you through away the rest of the season. With Ramsey you still have a chance to win games. With Campbell it would be to much for the rookie to handle. Gibbs would not do that to the other 52 guys playing their guts out to try to bring the winning tradition back to DC.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Dana87][QUOTE=Gmanc711]Gibbs already "allegedly" stated that if Brunell were to go down for a significant period of time, Campbell, not Ramsey would be the guy.QUOTE]


I doubt very seriously that Gibbs ever said that. First of all it doesn't make sense. Even if Brunell is hurt and out and extended amount of time, why would you through away the rest of the season. With Ramsey you still have a chance to win games. With Campbell it would be to much for the rookie to handle. Gibbs would not do that to the other 52 guys playing their guts out to try to bring the winning tradition back to DC.[/QUOTE]


Just what Mort said on ESPN Monday Night Countdown last week, I'm just repeating the message.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=Dana87][QUOTE=Gmanc711]Gibbs already "allegedly" stated that if Brunell were to go down for a significant period of time, Campbell, not Ramsey would be the guy.QUOTE]


I doubt very seriously that Gibbs ever said that. First of all it doesn't make sense. Even if Brunell is hurt and out and extended amount of time, why would you through away the rest of the season. With Ramsey you still have a chance to win games. With Campbell it would be to much for the rookie to handle. Gibbs would not do that to the other 52 guys playing their guts out to try to bring the winning tradition back to DC.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Dana, especially considering Gibbs inclination to go with veterans in the first place which at least Ramsey has a good deal more experience and I don't think that Gibbs will throw all of his beliefs and thoughts about how he has typically done things outside the window. This is evidenced by moves he has already made.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]Aren't we jumping the gun a little here guys? YES!!!![/QUOTE]

The NFL Network just reported that Chad Pennington tore his rotator cuff again and is out for the season. It is possible that his career is over. Now that puts the future of Ramsey square in the hands of the Jets and their first round draft pick. I say Gibbs deals Ramsey for nothing less than that. The Jets are looking at Jesse Palmer, Jonathan Quinn and Quincy Carter. I sure Vinny Testeverde told them to kiss his ass. Ramsey as a Jet is sounding more and more the "real deal."

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I still think ramsey is the best qb we have, but I know he's pretty much guaranteed not to play again for this team. If we can get a good draft pick for him, I say definitely take it.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

I seriously doubt the Jets would be interested in Ramsey right now. They are a playoff caliber team with no QB. Fiedler is out for who knows how long. Pennington is done for the year so they've got Bollinger and....? They are going to want a veteran who can learn the offense, protect the ball and handoff to Martin. One thing Rmsey hasn't shown a propensity to do lately is protect the ball. Ramsey might be a good long term solution for a team but not a short term one. I would love for them to give us a high pick for him but I don't think it is in the cards.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

Nothing personal but I think a bunch of you guys are getting carried away here. I don't see Ramsey going anywhere until the off-season at the earliest.

Gibbs is paranoid about the QB position as it is, why would he trade Ramsey now? Remember Gibbs flip-flopped Shroeder and Williams back and forth to the point that they hated each other. Why can't that scenario unfold here (without the hating part)? I think part of the reason Gibbs pulled PR so early was to give him a wake-up call and fire him up in anticipation of a return later this season. I mean if Brunnell goes down or sucks it up bad, even for a half, Ramsey could be right back in there. Do you think he'd be motivated? Think he'd throw a stupid pick on the 1st series?

While Gibbs does have the future in mind, his first priority is to win games. He's fair to his players, but he's not gonna dump Ramsey mid-season for junk when the Skins are 2-0 and alone in 1st, just because Ramsey's feelings may be hurt. Gibbs wants to win always, including right now.

Then there's the fact that Ramsey is signed thru 2006 relatively cheap, while Brunnell's contract is a behemoth that very well may have to be dumped at year's end. I mean 2 weeks ago a June 1st 2006 Brunell cut was practically a given. So if we trade Ramsey and dump Brunell at year's end that leaves us with...

...Campbell. I like what I hear but is a rookie really ready to take control of this team if Brunnell goes down? How'd the great Kyle Orton do this week? QB is tough and it takes time. Big Ben was the exception last year not the rule. I mean I'm worried enough about Campbell next year let alone this year. Keep in mind that we're a FIRST PLACE TEAM right now. We should be thinking that way. I know Gibbs is. The future is now.

So I really don't see Ramsey moving this year unless:
A. Campbell is really ahead of Ramsey on the 2005 depth chart
and
B. The offer for Ramsey is astronomical.

In the offseason if Gibbs really has no future plans for Ramsey, I think we'll let him go. I doubt Gibbs would hold him hostage here and force him to play out his contract, even if we have to dump Brunell.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=steveo395]I still think ramsey is the best qb we have, but I know he's pretty much guaranteed not to play again for this team. If we can get a good draft pick for him, I say definitely take it.[/QUOTE]

Never liked him and certainly didn't think he was the future of the team. If Eli Manning and Kyle Orton can start, Jason Campbell certainly can start and Gibbs can scale back the playcalling until he is comfortable with the offense. them the same way Ramsey did last year.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I have my doubts that any team in this league is willing to offer up a 1st round pick for a QB who still hasn't proven himself yet - especially midway through the season. No matter how good Ramsey might be for another team (hoping he does have lots of success,) he is still going to have to come in and learn a brand new system midway through the regular season.

If there is to be a mid-season acquisition, a 3rd rounder would be the very best in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I see you point, but whether it's Ramsey or someone else they will have to learn the Jets offense. So why not someone who could be a long-term solution and possibly give them some shot at making the playoffs.

The alternative, of course, would be to really stink up the joint and draft
Matt Leinert with the first pick next year.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

Yeah and suddenly Matt Leinhart will come in and shine in the NFL. What is the point of any of this verbage right now?

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Never liked him and certainly didn't think he was the future of the team. If Eli Manning and Kyle Orton can start, Jason Campbell certainly can start and Gibbs can scale back the playcalling until he is comfortable with the offense. them the same way Ramsey did last year.[/QUOTE]

What an insightful comment. Never liked him, of course you don't you have constantly bashed him. As a Ramsey fan, regardless of your opinion of him personally, in the future you should defend your commentary with more than your likes and dislikes. As a Redskin fan I personally take offense to that comment.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

It's official, Pennington is out for the season ... let the rumors fly.

[url]http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8895297[/url]

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

He is getting a second opinion tomorrow they said on MNF.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]What an insightful comment. Never liked him, of course you don't you have constantly bashed him. As a Ramsey fan, regardless of your opinion of him personally, in the future you should defend your commentary with more than your likes and dislikes. As a Redskin fan I personally take offense to that comment.[/QUOTE]

I don't think SUNRA was necessarily talking about not liking Ramsey as a person. He doesn't like him as a QB, more specifically as a QB for the Redskins. And he believes that by simplifying the offense Campbell could be just as effective now as Ramsey would be.

I'm pretty sure that's all he was saying. So what were you personally taking offense to?

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I don't think SUNRA was necessarily talking about not liking Ramsey as a person. He doesn't like him as a QB, more specifically as a QB for the Redskins. And he believes that by simplifying the offense Campbell could be just as effective now as Ramsey would be.

I'm pretty sure that's all he was saying. So what were you personally taking offense to?[/QUOTE]

As a Redskins fan and as a fan of one of our players it doesn't matter to SUNRA who is in the quarterback position as long as it is not Ramsey. If you are ripping him constantly then you must have some sort of personal dislike of him and as a fan of him and the Redskins I take that personally. In addition I remember his comments last season!!!!!

B
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I don't think SUNRA was necessarily talking about not liking Ramsey as a person. He doesn't like him as a QB, more specifically as a QB for the Redskins. And he believes that by simplifying the offense Campbell could be just as effective now as Ramsey would be.

I'm pretty sure that's all he was saying. So what were you personally taking offense to?[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what I was saying TAFKAS. I don't know Ramsey personally, so that would be a little psychotic to hate someone as a person. Hey, Skinsfan give me credit, I've been consistent with my opinion on who I think is the right QB for right now and who's right for the future.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]As a Redskins fan and as a fan of one of our players it doesn't matter to SUNRA who is in the quarterback position as long as it is not Ramsey. If you are ripping him constantly then you must have some sort of personal dislike of him and as a fan of him and the Redskins I take that personally. In addition I remember his comments last season!!!!![/QUOTE]

The question is were my criticisms of Ramsey warranted? And if you remember what I ripped him about, it's the same reasons he's not the QB, so what's your beef with me? Maybe because I said something that was actually a fact that became a reality for some and a nightmare for others.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]He is getting a second opinion tomorrow they said on MNF.[/QUOTE]
he can get a million opinions. If it's a torn rotator cuff he is done for now. And considering his lack of arm strength in the first place one has to wonder where this puts his career. In jeopardy I would guess. Guranteed that the Jets will address this issue during the off-season but as for now they'd be better off going with Testeverde or a guy like Jeff Blake. Remember the draft is going to have a pretty well regarded QB in Leinart and one of either Brees or Rivers might be available. That puts Ramsey down the list immediately. I am sure there will be some other more attractive options too. I don't think we can count on too much for him but hopefully I am wrong.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]The question is were my criticisms of Ramsey warranted? And if you remember what I ripped him about, it's the same reasons he's not the QB, so what's your beef with me? Maybe because I said something that was actually a fact that became a reality for some and a nightmare for others.[/QUOTE]

No not really especially because your assesment is based on opinion and not actual fact. SUNRA I just think that you are way too negative on certain topics. I enjoy your commentary on somethings but I am just disappointed in your overall assessment of this situation and never thought that it was fair or carefully thought through. That is all. :)

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]No not really especially because your assesment is based on opinion and not actual fact. SUNRA I just think that you are way too negative on certain topics. I enjoy your commentary on somethings but I am just disappointed in your overall assessment of this situation and never thought that it was fair or carefully thought through. That is all. :)[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to waste your time with the past, but here are the facts that I spoke of last year that were an opinion shared by many commentators and by Gibbs himself.

1.Ramsey is indecisive and holds on to the ball too long which contributed to a lot of the sacks he accumulated when Spurrier was the coach and after the Spurrier era.

2.Ramsey had not developed the ability to read the defense and call an audible in time. (Too many delay of game calls called when he does it.)

3.Ramsey turns the ball over too much which will eventually land him on the bench and send him out of D.C.

4.Ramsey is not the future of Washington Redskins. He's hasn't played an entire season to even be given the NFL's wealthiest franchise with the inconsistent plays he has exhibited throughtout his career as a Redskin.

Please tell me what part of these facts/opinions you have a problem with. Notice I didn't use the regular verbiage "he sucks" that's used to regularly describe Brunell's play.

Re: Jets In The Market For Qb!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I don't mean to waste your time with the past, but here are the facts that I spoke of last year that were an opinion shared by many commentators and by Gibbs himself.

1.Ramsey is indecisive and holds on to the ball too long which contributed to a lot of the sacks he accumulated when Spurrier was the coach and after the Spurrier era.

2.Ramsey had not developed the ability to read the defense and call an audible in time. (Too many delay of game calls called when he does it.)

3.Ramsey turns the ball over too much which will eventually land him on the bench and send him out of D.C.

4.Ramsey is not the future of Washington Redskins. He's hasn't played an entire season to even be given the NFL's wealthiest franchise with the inconsistent plays he has exhibited throughtout his career as a Redskin.

Please tell me what part of these facts/opinions you have a problem with. Notice I didn't use the regular verbiage "he sucks" that's used to regularly describe Brunell's play.[/QUOTE]


LOL man, jeez please people the argument is laid out. I think it is very reasonable, it may not be what others believe but it is not without truth. Bottom line no matter how you slice it is the guy was replaced by a staff that only had to gain by him succeeding. He played himself out of a job. He is more talented, younger, stronger armed but they didn't go with him. I love Ramsey if I had my way he would be a a pro bowl player that didn't turn the ball over but it isn't the case. Please stop jumping on everyone who thinks we may have increaseed our chances of winning by benching the guy. I hope this lights a fire under his ass so he will play himself back into a job somehow.