Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I love big Joe but I think he's more effective in a rotation coming in as the 3rd DT.

The d-line needs a serious overhaul.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]There are two problems for this year: first, except for Griffin our d-line is mediocre. Second, and this is scary to deal with, it looks like our entire defense could only be slightly above mediocre as well. We all knew, or at least suspected that this might be the case before the beginning of last season, but seemed to forget it after our defense so severely overachieved. Drunk on our own success, every last person on this board - and I absolutely include myself in this - forgot that we are a defensive of relatively pedestrian talent - at least on paper. Moreover, we all forgot that our defense had played above its abilities, remarkably, for an entire season, and would have to continue to overachieve to maintain that level of success. We all praised the genius of Greg Williams, deservedly so, and took it for granted that with Lavar back 21 points a game from the offense this year would get us 14-2.

The key to all of this was the exotic blitz packages that no one could seem to find an answer for. That, and smart linebacker play (led by Pierce) to check the run. We could get to the qb and force a rushed throw on third and long. This disguised the weakness of our front four as well as our relatively mediocre coverage skills, particularly with our second and nickel CB's. Now that teams have learned how to effectively parry any blitz we bring (seemingly 100 percent of the time) it is becoming clear that we don't have the coverage skills downfield to effectively defend the pass. Which brings me back to my first point, that our defensive line is lacking. Until we can count on the guys up front to consistently generating pressure ala Carolina, we are going to continue to get burned.

I know someone will argue that we played well defensively today; that we only gave up 16 points and stood strong at the end of the game. And that's true. But this is the third straight game where our defense had the whole field to stop our opponent with the game on the line and couldn't do it (I'm counting the end of the Eagles game because of the ease with which they got in scoring position, even though we stopped them in the redzone). I'm not trying to beat up on our defense. I love their heart and character, and admire the success they have had as a unit. I'm just suggesting that maybe we need to reevaluate how good we really are.

Sorry this was so long but these last two games have caused alot of emotion to build up inside and this is the best way I can think of to vent (I tried punching my coffee table but that didn't work).[/QUOTE]

Fantastic post.

I agree 110%.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I don't know how we can really blame our defense, they scored our only TD of the game, [ and outscored our offence for the game ] and held the Raiders to 16 points, we turned the ball over 2 times, they kept the Raiders to a field goal on first and goal at the 1, and did force a TO on that goal line stand which obviously we didn't get, our defense outplayed our offense today without a doubt, when's the last time our offense bailed out our defense? Yet our defense is alway's looked upon to bail out our offense, and when they fail it's their fault not the inability of our offense to seal a game with a first down, or score a TD, do they have their faults on defense? Yes! but they are not nearly the problem our offense is!

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I don't know how we can really blame our defense, they scored our only TD of the game, [ and outscored our offence for the game ] and held the Raiders to 16 points, we turned the ball over 2 times, they kept the Raiders to a field goal on first and goal at the 1, and did force a TO on that goal line stand which obviously we didn't get, our defense outplayed our offense today without a doubt, when's the last time our offense bailed out our defense? Yet our defense is alway's looked upon to bail out our offense, and when they fail it's their fault not the inability of our offense to seal a game with a first down, or score a TD, do they have their faults on defense? Yes! but they are not nearly the problem our offense is![/QUOTE]
Not to add fuel to the fire, but did you watch last weeks game against Tampa? Our offense did put up 35 points, and our D gave up 36 points. Even our D players said something to the effect, "It's our worst game, so much worse because our offense gave us 35 points," Clark said of the secondary. So that is why people are blaming our D, hell they even blame themselves. I agree that we need to step up on both sides of the ball, but after last years D performance so many were hoping for a repeat and not realizing that we were hurting this bad on our front 4.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Not to add fuel to the fire, but did you watch last weeks game against Tampa? Our offense did put up 35 points, and our D gave up 36 points. Even our D players said something to the effect, "It's our worst game, so much worse because our offense gave us 35 points," Clark said of the secondary. So that is why people are blaming our D, hell they even blame themselves. I agree that we need to step up on both sides of the ball, but after last years D performance so many were hoping for a repeat and not realizing that we were hurting this bad on our front 4.[/QUOTE]


But that was last week. I'm with offiss on this one. Every week its a different unit, player or person, which freaking sucks. This week it was the offenseive unit, last week it was the defensive unit. This team can not put a complete game together for the life of them.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I wonder if part of the problem isn't due to Greg Blache's philosophy that sacks aren't as important as batted passes and taking away passing lanes.

Actual quotes from Greg Blache:

"The thing you have to understand is there is much more to playing defense than just getting sacks," Blache said Wednesday. "Here [in Washington], we talk about disruptions – batted balls, altered passes, try to get your hands in a quarterback's throwing lanes to make him adjust the ball."

"If a sack was really important, it would factor into the quarterback rating," Blache explained. "Incomplete passes affect his rating, interceptions affect his rating, but not sacks."[/QUOTE]

Oh, brother. The defensive line coach making excuses for the pass rush. That's just great. It would be different if the linemen were coming close to sacks, creating havoc, and disrupting the quarterback's pacing. But they're not even coming close! There is [U]no pressure[/U]. Kerry Collins and Chris Simms the week before had ample time to choose their receivers, get set in perfect throwing motions and make pinpoint deliveries. The bottom line is, opposing passers have generally been able to pick the secondary apart, making key passes yesterday late in the game to tie and then later take the lead.

Sure, they [B][I]talk[/I][/B] about disruptions, but when was the last time you saw a defensive lineman bat down a pass? I can't find stats for QB ratings against the Redskins this year. But Collins was 19 for 36, equalling just over a 50% completion rate -- but remember, several of those were drops by Lamont Jordan and Zack Crockett, and that's what Greg Blache's little cop out doesn't tell you. Sure, the quarterback's rating might be down, but how much of that is attributed to receivers dropping the ball? He finished with 289 yards with one TD and one pick -- and let's be honest, that hasn't happened much either, this defense getting a turnover. Chris Simms was even better.

Mr. Blache, spare us. Pressuring the quarterback is a key facet of any defense. Nobody expects 5 sacks a game. But one sack from the starting defensive ends after 10 games ?!? Don't tell me that's just part of the system. Please, stop [I]talking[/I] about disruptions, and coach your players to start [I]making[/I] them.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Honestly, I think a fair amount of the blame can be put on Frost for not kicking good punts when he needed to.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I have been saying this the past few weeks. This guy might hit a good one every 5 punts. The punting yesterday was awful. The one that he needed to get down the field at the end of the game, was an awesome 31 yards, giving the Raiders the ball on our 45 or so. Tupa last year would keep the field posting in our favor ALL GAME. I think our punting game has been over looked. Its awful. The guy is a killer in terms of field position.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I believe our Defensive unit played better regarding the pass coverage. Moss never really got into a groove and pissed off most of the game. How does Marshall, a Middle LB, get assigned to cover Porter? That is twice in the past couple of games teams have got that match up. Last week in Tampa he was beet down the middle of the field by a WR,(galloway) and this week. What kind of defensive call is that? And again, late in the game we are blitzing when we have gotton absolutely no pressure on the QB all day. And again we give up two or three big plays at the end of the game when we need to control the Raiders and keep them infront of us. But we blitz, and get burned for 30 by moss. Blitz again and get beat by Jordan out of the backfield for 20. Its the same ole story game after game.

Gibbs deserves some blame too. 4th quarter, up by 3, with little over 7 minutes left. Three straight passes? what the hell is that. Portis was averaging alost 5 yards a carry and we come out 3 straight passes, two of them deep down the field. That is horrible. And again, I think we get the ball back, and again throw the ball two of the three downs. We got out coached, first, and out played second.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

It's very simple, we just don't have the talent up front to get the job done rushing the passer. We can blame the coaches all we want, but look at the names up front. This unit needs a serious overhaul. I wouldn't mind Wynn and Daniels as backups, but it's definitely time to replace both guys with some DE's who can get after the QB. We somehow got away with mediocre talent on the DL last year, but this year it's finally catching up with us.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Gibbs deserves some blame too. 4th quarter, up by 3, with little over 7 minutes left. Three straight passes? what the hell is that. Portis was averaging alost 5 yards a carry and we come out 3 straight passes, two of them deep down the field. That is horrible. And again, I think we get the ball back, and again throw the ball two of the three downs. We got out coached, first, and out played second.[/QUOTE]

Didn't Gibbs catch hell from a lot of us last week for running late in the game? Now we throw and he's still hearing it from us. Guess it just goes to show the most popular decision is the one that works.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Didn't Gibbs catch hell from a lot of us last week for running late in the game? Now we throw and he's still hearing it from us. Guess it just goes to show the most popular decision is the one that works.[/QUOTE]

Not from me buddy, you can go back and look at the posts I put up. I thought running the ball last week was the right think to do. This week it was the right thing to do also. dont throw me under the bus in regards to jumping on the ship every week. I call it like I see it. We should have been able to grind out 2 stinking yards last week, didn't and lost. We should have run the ball this week, and we didn't. Portis I think had like 6 to 8 carries in the second half. And we are freakin winning. We were plaing like we were down 13 points instead of up 3. It was bad play calling, nothing else. You dont come out and throw the ball 3 straight times, with 7 min to go in the game, and leading. its flat out rediculous!! Then, GW and again blitzes late, and again we get burned down the field. Moss on the 20 yarder on the side line, then Jordan coming out of the back field. Dont they watch any gamefilm and keep track of Norv and what he does. Go back to his days in Dallas, Miami, and now the Raiders, the back always catches balls out of the back field. He obviously watched our tapes and knew when we were blitzing and knew he had that play in his pocket and used it at just the right time. Good call on his part. and bad call on our D again this week. And the punter isn't getting off easy either, he sucks donkey dicks. This guy could n't punt the ball 40 yards with wind at his back. All day long he is punting the ball 30 yards. At the end of the game, when we needed a deep punt to pin them inside their 30, he hits a long ball of 31 yards and they start at midfield. Last year, Tupa kept the field position in our favor. This is two weeks in a row, late in the game our punter has given our D a very short field to work with.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I think the problem is that the redskins don't play with intensity and at 100% the whole game. The offense gets complacent when they are up and only tries to turn it up when they are behind. The defense is the same way - they usually wait until the other team is in the redzone and then they start to get fired up. That's why the score is always close - except for the San Fran game.

BTW, I don't believe in ever giving 110% - there is no such thing as giving MORE than your all. Hey redskins, where's your heart ? The redskins fans have more passion and heart than the players right now.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Not from me buddy, you can go back and look at the posts I put up. I thought running the ball last week was the right think to do. This week it was the right thing to do also. dont throw me under the bus in regards to jumping on the ship every week. I call it like I see it. We should have been able to grind out 2 stinking yards last week, didn't and lost. We should have run the ball this week, and we didn't. Portis I think had like 6 to 8 carries in the second half. And we are freakin winning. We were plaing like we were down 13 points instead of up 3. It was bad play calling, nothing else. You dont come out and throw the ball 3 straight times, with 7 min to go in the game, and leading. its flat out rediculous!! Then, GW and again blitzes late, and again we get burned down the field. Moss on the 20 yarder on the side line, then Jordan coming out of the back field. Dont they watch any gamefilm and keep track of Norv and what he does. Go back to his days in Dallas, Miami, and now the Raiders, the back always catches balls out of the back field. He obviously watched our tapes and knew when we were blitzing and knew he had that play in his pocket and used it at just the right time. Good call on his part. and bad call on our D again this week. And the punter isn't getting off easy either, he sucks donkey dicks. This guy could n't punt the ball 40 yards with wind at his back. All day long he is punting the ball 30 yards. At the end of the game, when we needed a deep punt to pin them inside their 30, he hits a long ball of 31 yards and they start at midfield. Last year, Tupa kept the field position in our favor. This is two weeks in a row, late in the game our punter has given our D a very short field to work with.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't calling you out specifically, just saying it's funny how both sides of the coin get played week to week.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's very simple, we just don't have the talent up front to get the job done rushing the passer. We can blame the coaches all we want, but look at the names up front. This unit needs a serious overhaul. I wouldn't mind Wynn and Daniels as backups, but it's definitely time to replace both guys with some DE's who can get after the QB. We somehow got away with mediocre talent on the DL last year, but this year it's finally catching up with us.[/QUOTE]

The coaches are as much to blame for the lack of pass rush as the front four are. They knew last year that the starting DE's were useless as far as the pass rush, and they had ample time to do something about it. Instead, they drafted a corner to sure up the pass coverage...:laughing2

But seriously, this line has needed an overhauling for almost five years, and the only positive thing that has happened in that time is the addition of Griffin.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

We probably won't be laughing at the Rogers pick at this time next year, though I guess that's not soon enough for the people who are already convinced he's a bust.

You can't address every single need each year, if only it were that easy.

GW needs to regroup this offseason with this schemes and most definitely his personnel. Stuff that worked last year isn't working this year, and we've had some key injuries.

Maybe next year we can finally get the offense and defense on the same page.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

Its funny that this time last year we were worried that a team would try to make GW their head coach. Thats one thing I don't think we have to worry about this year.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]We probably won't be laughing at the Rogers pick at this time next year, though I guess that's not soon enough for the people who are already convinced he's a bust.[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not labeling Carlos Rogers a bust at the moment. I actually think he's as good or better at tackling than any of our other corners, and I've only seen him get beat deep once, which isn't bad for a rookie. My only real knock against his is that he plays very soft intermediate coverage.

My main point is the D line has been a problem for years, and the coaching staff has put forth very little effort to fix it.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

the defense did okay imo. it was turnovers giving them a short field and keeping em tired that may have hurt us. the D got our only TD and kept them to like 2 yds/rush.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Not to add fuel to the fire, but did you watch last weeks game against Tampa? Our offense did put up 35 points, and our D gave up 36 points. Even our D players said something to the effect, "It's our worst game, so much worse because our offense gave us 35 points," Clark said of the secondary. So that is why people are blaming our D, hell they even blame themselves. I agree that we need to step up on both sides of the ball, but after last years D performance so many were hoping for a repeat and not realizing that we were hurting this bad on our front 4.[/QUOTE]


Take a look who wasen't in the lineup last week as well, Taylor, and Griffen, Taylor is a major player on our defense, of coarse the defense isn't going to make excuses because of injuries especially this group, they believe they can stop anyone, but it's awfully tough when your missing 2 players who may be the best in the game at their positions.

I believe if Taylor played last week we win that game against Tampa he's that valuable.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I wonder if we miss Noble at all. Either way we definitely need to get some pass rushers in there. I sort of liked it against the Niners when we went with the 3-4. In fact has Holdman even been on the field these past couple of weeks?

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I wonder if we miss Noble at all. Either way we definitely need to get some pass rushers in there. I sort of liked it against the Niners when we went with the 3-4. In fact has Holdman even been on the field these past couple of weeks?[/QUOTE]

I actually would like to see back in the 3-4 defense. With Griffin out, the quality of the back up to not compare to the LB quality if we ran a 3-4. We probably could generate a little bit more of a pass rush, and still be effective against the run. Holdman has not seen the field since "the benching". I think we go with Daniels, BIG JOE, and wynn with LaVar, Marshall, McCune,and washington. Even some downs we can move taylor up and play an extra corner. There seems to be more versatility with the 3-4 given our lack of depth at D-line.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I wonder if we miss Noble at all. Either way we definitely need to get some pass rushers in there. I sort of liked it against the Niners when we went with the 3-4. In fact has Holdman even been on the field these past couple of weeks?[/QUOTE]

I think we definitely miss Noble, especially with the injury to Griffin and taking in to account big Joe has been playing hurt and isn't close to 100%.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think we definitely miss Noble, especially with the injury to Griffin and taking in to account big Joe has been playing hurt and isn't close to 100%.[/QUOTE]

The only thing they're missing from Noble is a body to put in the defensive tackle position. I know people like to use the "space eater" defense in regards to him, but even space eaters manage to get about 30-40 tackles in a season. Noble started all 16 games last season and made 14 tackles and one sack. If they're missing him at all, it certainly isn't for his production on the field.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I believe Noble is a servicable tackle at best. We really haven't seen what he can do on the field since he has been hurt pretty much the whole time he has been here. So to say we miss him, I really can't say. Griffin is the one that is obviously missed. I hope he can get on the field soon, because with out him our ends have no chance at getting any kind of pressure, which we have seen the last four games. I do believe we should go to the 3-4 given our lack of depth at tackle and more importantly I think we are more athletic in that allignment. Its harder to defend and can confuse QB on who is coming on the blitz. I think we would still be decent against the run and would be able to defend the pass a bit better than we are. In that allignment we could also move Tayloy up at the 4th LB in certain packages and confuse O lineman more my either sending him on the blitz or dropping him back in coverage. He is a playmaker, as Lavar and Washington are, and I think we need to put him in position to make plays.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

I'm not saying Noble is a superstar, but he's certainly better than Boschetti and we miss the depth at DT we had last year.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

Did Noble say he was retiring? I know he's coaching now, but we placed on IR I believe.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]I actually would like to see back in the 3-4 defense. With Griffin out, the quality of the back up to not compare to the LB quality if we ran a 3-4. We probably could generate a little bit more of a pass rush, and still be effective against the run. Holdman has not seen the field since "the benching". I think we go with Daniels, BIG JOE, and wynn with LaVar, Marshall, McCune,and washington. Even some downs we can move taylor up and play an extra corner. There seems to be more versatility with the 3-4 given our lack of depth at D-line.[/QUOTE]

With the exception of the 49ers game, I haven't seen us really play the 3-4 this year.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

You know, even with Griffin out, the run defense has been pretty stout the last three weeks.

As for Carlos Rogers, I won't call him a 'bust' either, but I must admit that I expected him to take over the starting corner position over Walt Harris at this point. I know every player is different, and the situations may not be the same, but Champ Bailey, Fred Smoot, and Sean Taylor all contributed more to the team in their rookie seasons than Carlos Rogers has so far.

If he's truly injured, that's one thing. But if by season's end he hasn't supplanted Walt Harris as the starting corner, I think it's perfectly fair to say that Rogers will have had a disappointing rookie season.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]
I know someone will argue that we played well defensively today; that we only gave up 16 points and stood strong at the end of the game. And that's true. But this is the third straight game where our defense had the whole field to stop our opponent with the game on the line and couldn't do it (I'm counting the end of the Eagles game because of the ease with which they got in scoring position, even though we stopped them in the redzone). I'm not trying to beat up on our defense. I love their heart and character, and admire the success they have had as a unit. I'm just suggesting that maybe we need to reevaluate how good we really are.
[/QUOTE]

16 points against an offensive team and they scored 7, so its really 9 points...
we've had corner injuries, safety injuries and griffin's been out. Our problem is lack of depth, no pass rush, and for the start of the year, a crappy starting LB (holdman)... washington, pierce, marshall was much better than holdman, marshall, washington... hopefully we're alright at LB now though (but again, no depth). last year our D was injury free for the most part and smoot and pierce are both better than the guys that replaced them right now.

we don't suck, we're still top 10, but most people expected a dropoff with a rookie, a new bargain basement starter (holdman, bleh) and a player switching position.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]We probably won't be laughing at the Rogers pick at this time next year, though I guess that's not soon enough for the people who are already convinced he's a bust.

You can't address every single need each year, if only it were that easy.

GW needs to regroup this offseason with this schemes and most definitely his personnel. Stuff that worked last year isn't working this year, and we've had some key injuries.

Maybe next year we can finally get the offense and defense on the same page.[/QUOTE]

corners were plentiful and cheap in FA, DEs weren't... rolle, dyson, henry, surtain, baxter, and ty law among others...

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]corners were plentiful and cheap in FA, DEs weren't... rolle, dyson, henry, surtain, baxter, and ty law among others...[/QUOTE]

A lot of those corners didn't come cheap and/or came with baggage (i.e. Ty Law's injury). Plus, a problem with drafting dlinemen is they don't develop quickly and they are so hit or miss. So, I think it's a little early to say we shouldn't have drafted Rogers. Let's give him a little more than one season to prove his worth.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]corners were plentiful and cheap in FA, DEs weren't... rolle, dyson, henry, surtain, baxter, and ty law among others...[/QUOTE]

corners may have been plentiful but I don't know about cheap

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

A HUGE problem with our organization is that it is extremely impatient. It wants to win now. That sort of attitude hasn't won us many rings, or even a single winning season.

We don't give anyone (save Brunell) a chance to develop. Let's try to give Rogers the time to develop that we never gave Ramsey.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]corners may have been plentiful but I don't know about cheap[/QUOTE]

baxter and rolle got deals close to springs i believe (with less bonus money), henry got 21 over 5 (too much), dyson 17 over 5 and rogers 11 over 5... dyson is a much better deal right now and he'd let you pick up a non corner in the draft... the team was willing to pay 30mill to smoot, and that 30mill would buy any of those 4 and they'd have an immediate impact.

And yeah, law came with baggage, but he also came VERY cheap for his skill level, which when 100% can be top 3-5.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

We couldn't afford to give Baxter or Rolle the deals that Springs got. We could get two Rogers for every one Baxter or Rolle. Dyson is a decent corner, but Rogers, who is physical, fits Williams' system much better and should be a much better corner. As you pointed out, Henry got overpaid and he's aging. As for Smoot, we were willing to pay $30 million for him, but it was backloaded and so Smoot went to the Vikings (who were willing to frontload the deal). As for Law, he was injured and no one knew whether he would return to his old form. Plus, Law is very old; hence, his low salary.

In my opinion, I don't know how we can critique a move that just took place. We can make guesses as to how it will all play out, but ultimately we need to look at the move 2 years from now when the dust has settled.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

one rolle right now is better than 3 or 4 rodgers :P

and this whole thread is about critiquing the moves that just took place, so hating on that is kinda silly.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]one rolle right now is better than 3 or 4 rodgers :P

and this whole thread is about critiquing the moves that just took place, so hating on that is kinda silly.[/QUOTE]

With regard to Rolle, we couldn't afford to keep Smoot and we certainly couldn't afford to get Rolle.

With regard to critiquing moves, all I have to say is that [I]I think[/I] that it is premature, but debate the issue if you like. I've said more than I think it is premature, so I'm not trying to "shut down" the debate, I just wanted to throw that out there.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]With regard to Rolle, we couldn't afford to keep Smoot and we certainly couldn't afford to get Rolle.

With regard to critiquing moves, all I have to say is that [i]I think[/i] that it is premature, but debate the issue if you like. I've said more than I think it is premature, so I'm not trying to "shut down" the debate, I just wanted to throw that out there.[/QUOTE]

rolle's deal has less bonus money than smoots, less total money, and it was close to the 30 we were offering smoot. he was cheaper, we were willing to put up 30mill and a 12mill bonus.... he was like 30.5 and 6mill bonus.

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

After reading Greg Blache's interview on extremeskins.com reveals a mindset of the defensive staff that is responsible for the lack of adjustment. Blache was asked about Arrington and why he is not in the game on third downs. Blache's response was lame. He said, that they are playing the best player for that particular package. This package shit is an excuse for the fact that Arrington is the best player on third down as we witnessed against Oakland. This coaching staff doesn't like Arrington and doesn't want him to be the leader of this team. I'm convinced that Blache and Williams are too stubborn and unwilling to change their approach in the face of adversity. Why is Walt Harris still starting? Matt Bowen should be starting over Willams's boy Prioleau. And lastly, why is Williams continuing to blitz rather than play in zone coverage the way the Giants and Raiders have beaten us played?

Re: Problems with the Defense, IMHO
 

i thought clark was starting and prioleau was just the dime back... he is better than uh oh jimoh... I think rodgers played more than walt this game too.

I agree that you can still put clemons in if you want, but leave lavar in... take out a DL instead.