Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I thought this was the year for the offensive line to finally come together. Chris Samuels, an up-and-coming Derrick Dockery, a solid right guard in Randy Thomas alongside Jon Jansen, with the best available center in the free agent market in Casey Rabach -- all blocking for Clinton Portis? I was practically drooling after hearing that lineup.

But it just hasn't happened. Rabach was supposed to be the final piece of the puzzle. Portis was supposed to be making plays like L.T. is making. Gibbs and Bugel were supposed to resurrect the Hogs and call the plays that pound opponents into submission. Nope. It just ain't happenin'.

The D-line on the other hand, well ... let's just say I saw this coming.[/QUOTE]

If we get another wideout, I think a lot of the questions about our offense will disappear.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

How would another Wideout help Run Blocking?

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I thought this was the year for the offensive line to finally come together. Chris Samuels, an up-and-coming Derrick Dockery, a solid right guard in Randy Thomas alongside Jon Jansen, with the best available center in the free agent market in Casey Rabach -- all blocking for Clinton Portis? I was practically drooling after hearing that lineup.

But it just hasn't happened. Rabach was supposed to be the final piece of the puzzle. Portis was supposed to be making plays like L.T. is making. Gibbs and Bugel were supposed to resurrect the Hogs and call the plays that pound opponents into submission. Nope. It just ain't happenin'.

The D-line on the other hand, well ... let's just say I saw this coming.[/QUOTE]


I do see more improvement with our offensive line as opposed to last year. I do believe Jansen being out last year really hurt us. However, our offensive line is definitely not the OL like the hogs were. That was a special group! Some games they're perfect, other games they're not. But most definitely, our defensive line needs improvement. The only guy I really like is Griffin.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]If I could just jump in here, I think the critical mistake started when Snyder kicked out Schottenheimer. With just a few better offensive playmakers, that could have been a playoff year. He just may have had this team on the right track.[/QUOTE]
As I said earlier, I fondly remember the 1st Gibbs era and supported him this term as well.. That being said, I agree that it was a critical mistake to fire Schott and then he compounded ot not by hiring Spurrier but by NOT hiring Marvin Lewis as HC. Can't do anything about that now, but looking back it hurt the franchise tremendously..

[QUOTE=Redskin]maybe its the coaching staff keeping us close and we dont have great talent you ever think of that paintrain?[/quote]
I don't know that we have "great talent" but NFL observers always say that the Redskins are very talented on both sides of the ball. We have numerous players on both sides of the ball who have been pro-bowlers.. There are very few times that I think the Redskins step onto the field and they are out-manned from a talent perspective. But there have been at least 5 games where they were out-coached and out executed (Denver-execution, NYG-coaching & execution, Tampa-coaching, Oakland-coaching, SD-coaching & execution). That's inexcusable.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Bushead]How would another Wideout help Run Blocking?[/QUOTE]

Because our passing game would be better and defenses wouldn't be stacking the box (as the Chargers did today).

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I've been one that's preached 'trust the coaches' all season and that I trusted Gibbs judgment explicitly but today's loss and the last month in general I think it's time to really question some things..

Playcalling-Terrible decisions on offense with the plays.. Too many conservative playcalls. It seems like there are like 8 total plays in the playbook. When I can sit on my couch in Miami and call the plays before they happen an NFL coach can surely predict the same. Too conservative, playing not to lose=losing football. I'm [b]convinced[/b] that this coaching staff is not the right group to get us back to the top. We have better offensive talent than teams scoring 24-31 pts a week but we are not getting it done. That's flat out coaching and execution but it all starts on the sidelines.

Defensive playcalling-Same thing, why did we stop blitzing? 3 & 4 man rushes against an offensive line that was allowing pressure all day when the blitz came? Other than Harris the DBs played exceptionally well for most of the game, why not let them give them a chance to make a play?

Roster decisions-Derrick Frost is awful, worst punter in the league.. Walt Harris has been terrible since October, why is he still playing?? WR depth was a problem coming out of training camp but how can we not have a WR on the practice squad instead of Jimmy Farris who was out of football last week and the #3 WR this week?

Very frustrated and with no #1 pick and up against the cap this offseason I can't say that I'm even looking forward to that anymore..[/QUOTE]
AMEN

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]It's not like it's all that different from Gibbs' first run as coach. I mean you knew when they were going to go with the Jumbo offense, or run the counter-tre, or do a bootleg. Not the most extensive playbook, but with a lot of motion and different formations. The key is to execute it well enough that even if they know it's coming they can't stop it. Like Stockton-Malone's pick-and roll[/QUOTE]
Yep except this is 2005 not 1979

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Redskin]you guys act like we are getting destroyed in these games when they are all close down to the wire we have a good team here we are making stupid mistakes[/QUOTE]
We lost thats the bottom line whether it's by 55 or 1 point a Loss is A Loss

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07]It's time for the youth movement on the coaching staff. As much as we all love Joe Gibbs, at this point in his return, he has the exact same record as Steve Spurrier had after 27 games. And Gregg Williams is showing why his stint was so short in Buffalo: he couldn't hold the lead. Let's start anew next year.
We should have two goals for the rest of the season: beat Dallas and see what J. Campbell can do. It can't hurt at this point, when we're a less-than-average team.[/QUOTE]
LMAO finally!!! I knew this guy wasnt the genius everybody made him out to be

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Bushead]Portis is suppose to be making the plays L.T. did today. That is my biggest dissapointment from the coaching staff. They are obviously not using him wisely.[/QUOTE]

You know bushead, my buddy said the same exact thing. When you have a real RB running the ball it's academics. Portis has done this over and over. He doesn't seem to get stronger down the stretch. He fades into the background after half time. Now what really pisses me off is the fact that Gibbs won't play Nehemiah Broughton or any other RB when Portis is tired. Even Cartwright should have gotten the ball in the fourth quarter.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

I think it's so easy to whine and say it's the playcalling, but the execution hasn't been up to par lately either. Dropped passes, penalties, turnovers, etc., that's all on the players.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]LMAO finally!!! I knew this guy wasnt the genius everybody made him out to be[/QUOTE]

nah dude, he is the genius everyone is making him out to be... give any other D coordinator (aside from a select few) the line he has and tell me he holds the chargers to 17 in regulation... especially with all those three and outs in the second half by our offense.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]If we get another wideout, I think a lot of the questions about our offense will disappear.[/QUOTE]

Brandon Lloyd is a free-agent after this season. We need to get his ass in here. We need one big target and he can catch. He has made incredible catches on a team that is going no where. Let's see what happens.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Brandon Lloyd is a free-agent after this season. We need to get his ass in here. We need one big target and he can catch. He has made incredible catches on a team that is going no where. Let's see what happens.[/QUOTE]

What about Reggie Wayne? I think he's also a free-agent

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]What about Reggie Wayne? I think he's also a free-agent[/QUOTE]

Nope, I believe he signed a extension.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think it's so easy to whine and say it's the playcalling, but the execution hasn't been up to par lately either. Dropped passes, penalties, turnovers, etc., that's all on the players.[/QUOTE]
Matty, you know I have been right there with you with the 'trust the coaches' mantra, but the playcalling the past 3 games especially has been terrible.. Execution has been bad, no doubt, but the predictability of the play calls has nothing to do with execution. The conservatism has nothing to do with execution.. IMO to be better than 8-8 in todays NFL you need to either score 24+ a game or give up less than 13 a game. We are nowhere near either of those benchmarks which is why we are constantly fighting ourselves for a win..

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Matty, you know I have been right there with you with the 'trust the coaches' mantra, but the playcalling the past 3 games especially has been terrible.. Execution has been bad, no doubt, but the predictability of the play calls has nothing to do with execution. The conservatism has nothing to do with execution.. IMO to be better than 8-8 in todays NFL you need to either score 24+ a game or give up less than 13 a game. We are nowhere near either of those benchmarks which is why we are constantly fighting ourselves for a win..[/QUOTE]

Ever since Moss made the headlines, the deep ball has been taken away via double-coverage. I don't think we are good enough to successfully use trick plays. I'm not sure what the coaching staff is doing that is so conservative. I think it's smart playcalling (i.e. our last "drive" against the Chargers). I think the execution and talent (see our #2 wideout and #1 tight-end) just isn't there.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Ever since Moss made the headlines, the deep ball has been taken away via double-coverage. I don't think we are good enough to successfully use trick plays. I'm not sure what the coaching staff is doing that is so conservative. I think it's smart playcalling (i.e. our last "drive" against the Chargers). I think the execution and talent (see our #2 wideout and #1 tight-end) just isn't there.[/QUOTE]
From the 'Playcalling' Thread that I just posted in:

1-10-SD31 (1:04) C.Portis to SD 25 for 6 yards (B.Jue, D.Florence).
2-4-SD25 (:55) C.Portis right end to SD 25 for no gain (L.Castillo).
PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 25 - No Play.
[b]2-14-SD35 (:50) C.Portis left end to SD 35 for no gain (R.Godfrey).[/b]
3-14-SD35 (:40) M.Brunell pass incomplete to C.Cooley (S.Merriman).
4-14-SD35 (:35) J.Hall 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.

From the 35 you are out of FG range. The highlighted playcall on 2nd and 14 is asinine to me. To me that is giving up on the drive by conceding 3rd and long and a long FG attempt. Are there no plays in the playbook designed to gain 7-10 yds?

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]From the 'Playcalling' Thread that I just posted in:

1-10-SD31 (1:04) C.Portis to SD 25 for 6 yards (B.Jue, D.Florence).
2-4-SD25 (:55) C.Portis right end to SD 25 for no gain (L.Castillo).
PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 25 - No Play.
[b]2-14-SD35 (:50) C.Portis left end to SD 35 for no gain (R.Godfrey).[/b]
3-14-SD35 (:40) M.Brunell pass incomplete to C.Cooley (S.Merriman).
4-14-SD35 (:35) J.Hall 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.

From the 35 you are out of FG range. The highlighted playcall on 2nd and 14 is asinine to me. To me that is giving up on the drive by conceding 3rd and long and a long FG attempt. Are there no plays in the playbook designed to gain 7-10 yds?[/QUOTE]

If I remember right, that play was a delayed handoff. Basically to freeze the defense into thinking it was pass then run. But the Chargers didn't bite

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=davy]I thought this site was for knowledgeable fans not for bad losers.[/QUOTE]
those are words of a genius... to bad we dont have many davy

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Bushead]Portis is suppose to be making the plays L.T. did today. That is my biggest dissapointment from the coaching staff. They are obviously not using him wisely.[/QUOTE]
I came to the conclusion long ago that the Redskins overpaid for Portis by trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick that the Broncos used to select Tatum Bell. Adding insult to injury, the Danny opened the vault for Portis before he ever played a down for us. He's the 2nd highest paid RB (behind Tomlinson), but he certainly isn't in the same class as L.T., Shawn Alexander, or Edgerrin James. My simplest measure of a money back - can you salt a game away with a 4th quarter lead by handing him the ball again and again? After nearly 2 seasons here, the answer to that is a resounding no.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister]I came to the conclusion long ago that the Redskins overpaid for Portis by trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick that the Broncos used to select Tatum Bell. Adding insult to injury, the Danny opened the vault for Portis before he ever played a down for us. He's the 2nd highest paid RB (behind Tomlinson), but he certainly isn't in the same class as L.T., Shawn Alexander, or Edgerrin James. My simplest measure of a money back - can you salt a game away with a 4th quarter lead by handing him the ball again and again? After nearly 2 seasons here, the answer to that is a resounding no.[/QUOTE]
Good comparison between Portis and Alexander/James. I heard last week that Portis has not had back-to-back 100-yard games in his two years with the Redskins. He's a gamer, but he's playing well below his potential.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister]I came to the conclusion long ago that the Redskins overpaid for Portis by trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick that the Broncos used to select Tatum Bell. Adding insult to injury, the Danny opened the vault for Portis before he ever played a down for us. He's the 2nd highest paid RB (behind Tomlinson), but he certainly isn't in the same class as L.T., Shawn Alexander, or Edgerrin James. My simplest measure of a money back - can you salt a game away with a 4th quarter lead by handing him the ball again and again? After nearly 2 seasons here, the answer to that is a resounding no.[/QUOTE]

You should post more often. Those last two sentences are all anyone should need as proof that Clinton Portis hasn't been close what we really wanted from him. After being handed the ball 29 times, that's usually the mark of a team that winds up in the win column.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]It's not like it's all that different from Gibbs' first run as coach. I mean you knew when they were going to go with the Jumbo offense, or run the counter-tre, or do a bootleg. Not the most extensive playbook, but with a lot of motion and different formations. The key is to execute it well enough that even if they know it's coming they can't stop it. Like Stockton-Malone's pick-and roll[/QUOTE]


I agree, and the key word here is "execute". This offensive line cannot execute anything close to the hogs. Plus, Gibbs first tenure here did not see as much blitzing the way teams do now. It's a joy for these blitzing linebackers to meet the running backs in the hole. Teams are more equal now also due to parity in the league. More teams are better now than when Gibbs coached last time.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

I think there is a fine line when it comes to execution and playcalling. When the players make the play work, the playcalling is great. When the players don't execute it, the play calling stinks. Maybe our team is just an average team, and to get this team winning, the playcalling is going to have to be flawless. I believe that is what fans expect anyway.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]From the 'Playcalling' Thread that I just posted in:

1-10-SD31 (1:04) C.Portis to SD 25 for 6 yards (B.Jue, D.Florence).
2-4-SD25 (:55) C.Portis right end to SD 25 for no gain (L.Castillo).
PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 25 - No Play.
[b]2-14-SD35 (:50) C.Portis left end to SD 35 for no gain (R.Godfrey).[/b]
3-14-SD35 (:40) M.Brunell pass incomplete to C.Cooley (S.Merriman).
4-14-SD35 (:35) J.Hall 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.

From the 35 you are out of FG range. The highlighted playcall on 2nd and 14 is asinine to me. To me that is giving up on the drive by conceding 3rd and long and a long FG attempt. Are there no plays in the playbook designed to gain 7-10 yds?[/QUOTE]


While I agree that the playcalling has generally been unimaginative and predictable, weren't a lot of us bitching last week in the 4th quarter against the Raiders for NOT running Portis enough?

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think it's so easy to whine and say it's the playcalling, but the execution hasn't been up to par lately either. Dropped passes, penalties, turnovers, etc., that's all on the players.[/QUOTE]


While there has been far too much of what you mention, playcalling figures into the mix as well. There is far too much of what we saw last year, throwing the ball two to three yards short of the first down marker. I wouldn't suggest throwing a hook pattern two yards short of the 1st down with the receiver not being able to run after the catch for the needed yardage. Plus the whole offensive scheme at times lacks creativeness as well as imagination. It appears to be an offense with limited plays because we seem to be so predictable, and from what I witness rather easy to defend.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]While I agree that the playcalling has generally been unimaginative and predictable, weren't a lot of us bitching last week in the 4th quarter against the Raiders for NOT running Portis enough?[/QUOTE]

And the week before a lot were bitching that we WERE running Portis. It's kind of funny how at the beginning of the year there were a lot of threads about how awful the passing game was and how Brunell was just a limp-wristed has-been and how we needed to give the ball to Portis.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=itvnetop]nah dude, he is the genius everyone is making him out to be... give any other D coordinator (aside from a select few) the line he has and tell me he holds the chargers to 17 in regulation... especially with all those three and outs in the second half by our offense.[/QUOTE]


It could well be like you said, the defense didn't have a lot left after having to play so much in the second half. Those constant three and out's just kill a defense. It's well documented our front four definately needs a face lift. We really miss Brandon Noble this year more than we realize. While he may not have been a sack master, he along with Griffin took the double team and made it possible for others to make a play.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan]It could well be like you said, the defense didn't have a lot left after having to play so much in the second half. Those constant three and out's just kill a defense. It's well documented our front four definately needs a face lift. We really miss Brandon Noble this year more than we realize. While he may not have been a sack master, he along with Griffin took the double team and made it possible for others to make a play.[/QUOTE]


And that is all the more reason to have a ball controlled offense that holds onto the ball for half a quarter each series. I think our defense plays better when we're able to run the ball effectively. In this offense, the ball carrier needs to touch the ball at least 30 to 40 times a game in my opinion. When we're able to do that, it keeps our defense fresh and it opens up so much more on our offense. I think anytime when we get into a situation where we're passing more than we're running, we're in trouble! Moss is great, but he's only one man. If we had the posse still, then passing more would be no problem. But I think our defensive line needs a majory upgrade.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07]Good comparison between Portis and Alexander/James. I heard last week that Portis has not had back-to-back 100-yard games in his two years with the Redskins. He's a gamer, but he's playing well below his potential.[/QUOTE]
The running game doesnt work because we cant stretch the field... saftey's can play up linebackers too... I dont think we threw even 1 pass all day longer 15 yards ..i'm not talking R.A.C just plain deep pass....they dont have to respect the deep pass at all....so you just pack everyone up..... Thats the problem

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]The running game doesnt work because we cant stretch the field... saftey's can play up linebackers too... I dont think we threw even 1 pass all day longer 15 yards ..i'm not talking R.A.C just plain deep pass....they dont have to respect the deep pass at all....so you just pack everyone up..... Thats the problem[/QUOTE]
I agree, that's one of the problems.. I would like to see Brunell take a 7 step drop and throw a fly pattern once in a while, if for nothing more than to show that we are willing to take that chance.. You never know when you are going to get a 30 yd pass interference penalty or what may happen.. But I do know that when you throw a 5 yd hitch on 3rd & 7, that means PUNT TEAM...

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I agree, that's one of the problems.. I would like to see Brunell take a 7 step drop and throw a fly pattern once in a while, if for nothing more than to show that we are willing to take that chance.. You never know when you are going to get a 30 yd pass interference penalty or what may happen.. But I do know that when you throw a 5 yd hitch on 3rd & 7, that means PUNT TEAM...[/QUOTE]

Normally I'd agree with you. But whom exactly was Brunell supposed to hit for big plays? The phantom wideout deep the secondary or to Moss who is getting doubled?

As has been pointed out before by TAFKAS and others, last week people were saying Gibbs was dumb for not running out the clock in a very similar game. This week, Gibbs is dumb for trying to run the clock out.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I agree, that's one of the problems.. I would like to see Brunell take a 7 step drop and throw a fly pattern once in a while, if for nothing more than to show that we are willing to take that chance.. You never know when you are going to get a 30 yd pass interference penalty or what may happen.. But I do know that when you throw a 5 yd hitch on 3rd & 7, that means PUNT TEAM...[/QUOTE]

Another thing I've seen the last few weeks, is Brunell on what appears to be a deep pass attempt on third and 2. Nobody's open, and Brunell throws it 15 yards out of bounds. So instead of trying to get just 5 to 7 yards on third and short, we have to punt. There's ill-timed deep pass atttempts too. That's not bad execution, that's bad playcalling.

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Normally I'd agree with you. But whom exactly was Brunell supposed to hit for big plays? The phantom wideout deep the secondary or to Moss who is getting doubled?

As has been pointed out before by TAFKAS and others, last week people were saying Gibbs was dumb for not running out the clock in a very similar game. This week, Gibbs is dumb for trying to run the clock out.[/QUOTE]
Do we not have anyone other than Moss who is capable of running straight up the sideline? I guess I just find it hard to believe that we have 4-5 WR on the roster and only one knows how to run a fly pattern.. I think it's perfectly fine on a 2nd and less than 5 to run a play that you run a WR on a fly pattern and that's your only read.. If he's open, you hit him, if not you still throw deep but you throw it out of bounds.. That lets the defense know that you are able and willing to throw it deep down the field.. Sometimes you hit the big play, sometimes you get a penalty and sometimes you just get an incompletion but the same criticism that we had last year of the 'dink and dunk' offense is back.. Moss has [b]made[/b] big plays because of his run after the catch skills, but since the SF game how many deep balls down the sideline have we seen thrown?

As I titled the thread, I have not been critical of coaching this season on this forum until yesterday so I can't speak on what was said before this week but I'm fed up with what I've been seeing.. Regardless of the clock and situation, absent a 2 TD lead and less than 4 minutes remaining, attack and be balanced. Obviously our current defense cannot hold a 2 score lead in the 4th quarter, so we need more than points than that to win.. That's what I would like to see..

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I am not taking up for Gibbs and his staff by no means. But I wanted to try and explain why it appears we run the same plays. The Gibbs and Co. coaching staff rely on confusing defenses by running different plays from the same formation. Play action, guard and tackle pulls, traps, guts, all of those plays from the same formation. Problem is, when they dont work we cant run anything else from that formation. When the calls are working, we run a very effective offense. As seen early in the season against Denver, KC, Tampa. But as defesive coaches figure out what they are doing they prepare for it. We have not done a good job a adjusting ourselves. Defensively, I am disappointed in the lack of adjusting GW has done. It is painfully obvious that teams have come up with ways to block hits complicated blitzes. Yet he continues to put our players in bad positions at the end of the game. Although we played fairly well against Oakland and San Diego, they still gave up a big play at the end of the game. And again it was on a blitz call. When LT hit the hole, No LBs were to be found because they were behind him and the safetys were blizing. leaving clark one on one, and LT will win that battle 99% of the time. We have been out coached lately, not out played

Re: My 1st anti-coaching thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Normally I'd agree with you. But whom exactly was Brunell supposed to hit for big plays? The phantom wideout deep the secondary or to Moss who is getting doubled?

As has been pointed out before by TAFKAS and others, last week people were saying Gibbs was dumb for not running out the clock in a very similar game. This week, Gibbs is dumb for trying to run the clock out.[/QUOTE]
So It gets picked off ...at least they have to respect that! And Hell a 40 - 50 yard punt is better than our punter could do yesterday