Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Chargers fans rolled their eyes when Brees was declared the starter after Rivers held out of camp. Fortunately for them, and Marty, the Chargers showed Brees some patience by getting impatient with Rivers. Can you tell me when exactly we've shown any patience with Ramsey. We put him in, we yank him out, we put him in, we yank him out.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Chargers fans rolled their eyes when Brees was declared the starter after Rivers held out of camp. Fortunately for them, and Marty, the Chargers showed Brees some patience by getting impatient with Rivers. Can you tell me when exactly we've shown any patience with Ramsey. We put him in, we yank him out, we put him in, we yank him out.[/QUOTE]


Couldn't agree more, I know many will disagree but one of the biggest problems I have had with Gibbs is the way he just flat out pushed Ramsey out of the picture without really giving him a fair chance, last season when things became so bad he had no choice but to play Ramsey, Ramsey responded and won the starters job, only to have Gibbs looking for any excuse whatsoever to put in his guy Brunell, pretty lowsey thing to do someone to promise them the starters job all off season and then 1 quarter into first game yank him as if the guy has went 2-5 in his last 7 games. I defiently came away with a different opinion of Gibbs after watching how he handled that situation and it left a bad taste in my mouth, if Ramsey failed, ok he failed, but he deserved the opportunity to go out there and prove it one way or the other.

Yes Brunell has played well when given the time, but considering the state of the team was it really a wise decision to bring in an ageing QB if we are in fact still rebuilding? Wouldn't we be better off right now if Ramsey had been playing over the coarse of the last 2 seasons? If you believe no that's fine, I just believe that Ramsey would have greatly improved his play as he became comfortable in Gibbs system, Just like Brunell.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Couldn't agree more, I know many will disagree but one of the biggest problems I have had with Gibbs is the way he just flat out pushed Ramsey out of the picture without really giving him a fair chance, last season when things became so bad he had no choice but to play Ramsey, Ramsey responded and won the starters job, only to have Gibbs looking for any excuse whatsoever to put in his guy Brunell, pretty lowsey thing to do someone to promise them the starters job all off season and then 1 quarter into first game yank him as if the guy has went 2-5 in his last 7 games. I defiently came away with a different opinion of Gibbs after watching how he handled that situation and it left a bad taste in my mouth, if Ramsey failed, ok he failed, but he deserved the opportunity to go out there and prove it one way or the other.

Yes Brunell has played well when given the time, but considering the state of the team was it really a wise decision to bring in an ageing QB if we are in fact still rebuilding? Wouldn't we be better off right now if Ramsey had been playing over the coarse of the last 2 seasons? If you believe no that's fine, I just believe that Ramsey would have greatly improved his play as he became comfortable in Gibbs system, Just like Brunell.[/QUOTE]

I would but the blame on three people (in no particular order):

Gibbs-I think it was a mistake for him to declare Ramsey the starter before even mini-camp started. Especially if he knew that Brunell was hurt the past season and that some time to recuperate would help him. He backed himself into an unnecessary corner by declaring Ramsey the starter when I don't think he really believed it. It also brings up the misconception that Gibbs owes something to Ramsey (I'll bring that up later)

Ramsey-In spite of finishing 3-4 as a starter last season, Ramsey did a pretty solid job. However, when he played during the preseason I didn't see someone who was any better than when he left the field against Minnesota to wrap up the 2004 season. I know people say that he wasn't given a fair chance, but I think that he had several months in the offseason to work on basic fundamentals that, in my opinion, he either didn't work on or if he did he didn't improve significantly upon them. Ramsey should have had the mentality "OK, I've been given the starting job and now I'm going to step out on the field and put so much distance between me and the next QB that there's no question I should be the guy"

The Fans-I can understand being frustrated, feeling that Ramsey was perhaps not given a fair chance. But here's the thing, Gibbs owes Ramsey nothing in my opinion. It sounds harsh I know. But when Gibbs was brought here, he was brought here to bring a winner back to DC. I'm pretty sure that Snyder, as much as he may love Ramsey, didn't tell Gibbs to help him bring back a Super Bowl trophy "but make sure Ramsey is a part of it" If Gibbs thinks that the answer is Brunell now and Campbell next year (or the year after) I think that's fine to disagree but I don't think it should be because you think he owes anything to Ramsey. (and offiss, I'm not singling you out here, just happen to be quoting your post)

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I would but the blame on three people (in no particular order):

Gibbs-I think it was a mistake for him to declare Ramsey the starter before even mini-camp started. Especially if he knew that Brunell was hurt the past season and that some time to recuperate would help him. He backed himself into an unnecessary corner by declaring Ramsey the starter when I don't think he really believed it. It also brings up the misconception that Gibbs owes something to Ramsey (I'll bring that up later)

Ramsey-In spite of finishing 3-4 as a starter last season, Ramsey did a pretty solid job. However, when he played during the preseason I didn't see someone who was any better than when he left the field against Minnesota to wrap up the 2004 season. I know people say that he wasn't given a fair chance, but I think that he had several months in the offseason to work on basic fundamentals that, in my opinion, he either didn't work on or if he did he didn't improve significantly upon them. Ramsey should have had the mentality "OK, I've been given the starting job and now I'm going to step out on the field and put so much distance between me and the next QB that there's no question I should be the guy"

The Fans-I can understand being frustrated, feeling that Ramsey was perhaps not given a fair chance. But here's the thing, Gibbs owes Ramsey nothing in my opinion. It sounds harsh I know. But when Gibbs was brought here, he was brought here to bring a winner back to DC. I'm pretty sure that Snyder, as much as he may love Ramsey, didn't tell Gibbs to help him bring back a Super Bowl trophy "but make sure Ramsey is a part of it" If Gibbs thinks that the answer is Brunell now and Campbell next year (or the year after) I think that's fine to disagree but I don't think it should be because you think he owes anything to Ramsey. (and offiss, I'm not singling you out here, just happen to be quoting your post)[/QUOTE]


DEAD ON!!!
I really don't get the [b]personal [/b]thing people read into this issue. I have read , heard, seen nothing that would suggest Gibbs is about, or would tolerate that sort of thing. Gibbs is about delivering results, or putting the best guys on the field to try to deliver results. To suggest otherwise, is absurd!

CHECK OUT THE TONY MCGEE THREAD IN THIS FORUM! VERY HONEST ANSWERS FROM A VET!!!!!!!!

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

TAFKAS,

I agree with just about everything you said in the above post. I too agree that Gibbs doesn't owe Ramsey much (although he shouldn't have told him he was going to be the starter if he was on such a short leash). I didn't intend to rehash the Brunell-Ramsey debate. All I meant to say was that our organization is very impatient and that isn't a good thing.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I would but the blame on three people (in no particular order):

Gibbs-I think it was a mistake for him to declare Ramsey the starter before even mini-camp started. Especially if he knew that Brunell was hurt the past season and that some time to recuperate would help him. He backed himself into an unnecessary corner by declaring Ramsey the starter when I don't think he really believed it. It also brings up the misconception that Gibbs owes something to Ramsey (I'll bring that up later)

Ramsey-In spite of finishing 3-4 as a starter last season, Ramsey did a pretty solid job. However, when he played during the preseason I didn't see someone who was any better than when he left the field against Minnesota to wrap up the 2004 season. I know people say that he wasn't given a fair chance, but I think that he had several months in the offseason to work on basic fundamentals that, in my opinion, he either didn't work on or if he did he didn't improve significantly upon them. Ramsey should have had the mentality "OK, I've been given the starting job and now I'm going to step out on the field and put so much distance between me and the next QB that there's no question I should be the guy"

The Fans-I can understand being frustrated, feeling that Ramsey was perhaps not given a fair chance. But here's the thing, Gibbs owes Ramsey nothing in my opinion. It sounds harsh I know. But when Gibbs was brought here, he was brought here to bring a winner back to DC. I'm pretty sure that Snyder, as much as he may love Ramsey, didn't tell Gibbs to help him bring back a Super Bowl trophy "but make sure Ramsey is a part of it" If Gibbs thinks that the answer is Brunell now and Campbell next year (or the year after) I think that's fine to disagree but I don't think it should be because you think he owes anything to Ramsey. (and offiss, I'm not singling you out here, just happen to be quoting your post)[/QUOTE]


We would then have to ask what does he owe Brunell if he was brought here to win? Because that clearly has not happened under Brunell, the state of our team right now is not a state of progress, this team is regressing.

The question is why did Gibbs name Ramsey the starter to begin with? I believe the reason was he looked 1000 times better than Brunell last season.

It's funny how Gibbs keeps insisting that the reason Brunell failed last season is because of his injury, even though Brunell had his best game of the year the week after, it's also ironic that Brunell has stated that his injury was not a factor, in fact he has said his inability to produce last season was because he didn't have much help surrounding him.

Eventually we will learn when Ramsey gets dealt whether or not he can play, as for Brunell where are we really going with him, I have to hope that Gibbs didn't give away next years draft for a QB who's going to be holding a clipboard for 3 years?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

sometimes u have to let them hodl the clipboard

carson palmer
chad pennington

2 recent qbs drafted first round who sat and held the clipboard, both have been very successful

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]Has anyone else noticed that people on this site don't really get sarcasm?[/QUOTE]

I notice it constantly...but I dont want it to change cause it makes me laugh at people getting worked up over sarcastic non-rumors. And laughter at work is at a premium.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Sarcasm isn't exactly the easiest thing to pick up on in print, especially considering some of the wacked takes some people tend to have. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]It's becoming more apparent that Gibbs is having a real tough time without a real genious in talent evaluation in Beathard at his side, he's finding out that it's much harder to do whatever you want on offense when you don't have an O-line that dominates opposing defensive lines everytime you take the field, yes Gibbs [ when injuries were not a factor ] enjoyed that kind advantage for a decade back in the 80's.

Now we spend 161 million dollars on 3 player's, Portis, Arrington, and Brunell, trade away next years draft for Campbell, and discard Ramsey who may at some point in his carreer prove to be the best of the bunch.

Guess what, it doesn't work without dominant lines, that is the key to football, offensive, and defensive line play, when you have that you don't need 68 million $ LB's, you don't need 50 mil $ RB's, and you don't need a 35 year old 43 mil $ QB, as the skins of the 80's proved time and again. Great lines make winners out of decent players, great D-lines keep blockers off your LB's, great O-lines open holes for decent RB's, they also allow your QB time to get comfortable and look downfield for recievers, while providing him a reliable running game.

Us? Well we now have probably the most talented trio of QB's in the league, while Williams tries week in and week out to figure out a way to stop offenses without a D-line, and guess what theres no help on the way because Gibbs just had to have Campbell, like he just had to have Portis, as well as Brunell!

And yes it's official Portis is even less talented than I thought when we traded for him, I have watched him to many times run right into the backs of our lineman and then cut to the hole that he should have hit instantly, not all our problems lie with our line with the running game, Portis is not a special back by any means.

It's to bad we gave up next years draft, I hear Gibbs is now interested in Dayne, and all denver want's is Sean Taylor, and a #2.

You can't win in the NFL if you can't evaluate, and draft winning talent, and other than Cooley, Taylor was a no brainer, in 2 years what do we really have through the draft? 3 players, one of which Rogers has yet to become a starter.

Yes Gibbs recieved all the glory, but it's becoming more apparent with every game that Beathard was greatly underestimated in the success that Gibbs enjoyed throughout the 80's.[/QUOTE]

I hear what your saying but Ramsey the Best of the bunch? We are in trouble if that is true!!! Ramsey is a back up QB in the NFL. Yes he will get another starting job for some team but he will fail. He needs a lot of work and maybe he might be Brees but not likey.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]We would then have to ask what does he owe Brunell if he was brought here to win? Because that clearly has not happened under Brunell, the state of our team right now is not a state of progress, this team is regressing.

The question is why did Gibbs name Ramsey the starter to begin with? I believe the reason was he looked 1000 times better than Brunell last season.
[/QUOTE]

What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?[/QUOTE]

The backup QB is always the most popular QB in town because he hasn't had the chance to mess things up. So of course we like to daydream about what could have been, rather than face the reality that if he was good enough to hold the job he'd be starting all along.

But that can be easily countered by the old reliable conspiracy theories. The coaches don't like him. They like Brunell because he's a fine, church going fella. Brunell is the starter because they have more money tied up in him. Ramsey wasn't given a "fair shake", despite having the entire offseason and preseason to cement himself as the unquestioned #1.

Just remember, when in doubt blame Brunell and wonder WWRD.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I hear what your saying but Ramsey the Best of the bunch? We are in trouble if that is true!!! Ramsey is a back up QB in the NFL. Yes he will get another starting job for some team but he will fail. He needs a lot of work and maybe he might be Brees but not likey.[/QUOTE]

You may be right, but we really don't know at this point because he's not playing, how soon people like to forget how badly Brees was potrayed only to rise above and become an all pro, that could never happen he was a lowsey QB and yet it did, but everyone knows Ramsey wouldn't, well the kid deserved the chance to prove it and never really got one.

How's Jake Plummer doing this year? Has he progressed as a QB in his third year in denver? I think so! And he was vastly more experienced than Ramsey before he was signed by Denver, but it is impossible for Ramsey to become a good QB, why? Because Gibbs said so by not giving him a chance.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]What is your point? Of course that is why Ramsey was named the starter, and lost his job this year because he didn't show the same improvement this year as he did last year. It's not that difficult to understand.

What is the fascination over Patrick Ramsey?[/QUOTE]


What is the fascination over Brunell? Certainly not our win-lose record under him?

So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?

I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?[/quote]

How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?

[quote]I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.[/QUOTE]

So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]What is the fascination over Brunell? Certainly not our win-lose record under him?

So what did you see out of Ramsey that 1st quarter against the bears that lead you to the conclusion that Ramsey is garbage?

I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.[/QUOTE]

First of all, I never said Ramsey is garbage. I never made that comment. I have stated repeatedly that I think Ramsey is a good guy and going to be a decent QB in the league, but he hasn't developed the tools for it just yet. I also added that I believe he'll be a late bloomer quarterback that will have his best years after he's been in the league for several seasons. Right now, Ramsey has not proven himself to be the go to guy yet. That is why I ask, what is the fascination about Patrick Ramsey other than this dream of what you hope he will be, but not what he is presently.

Don't give me that crap about Ramsey had to face starters in the preseason and attempt to use that as a valid excuse as to why he isn't the starter. Ramsey is suppose to play against starters during the regular season. Using that excuse only further proves the point that he isn't ready to start for the Redskins. Secondly, Mark Brunell has not only proven himself renewed from preseason, but he has played pretty well this whole season. I'm not suggesting he has played flawlessly, but his overall play has been more than good to justify him being in the starting lineup over Patrick Ramsey. If it was Ramsey that proved himself the man, I'd support him. The bottom line is, I want this team to win, and at this moment, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance at doing so. If Patrick Ramsey comes in and proves me wrong...by all means I will root for him to do so.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?



So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?[/QUOTE]


What was his rating after the first 2 games?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]First of all, I never said Ramsey is garbage. I never made that comment. I have stated repeatedly that I think Ramsey is a good guy and going to be a decent QB in the league, but he hasn't developed the tools for it just yet. I also added that I believe he'll be a late bloomer quarterback that will have his best years after he's been in the league for several seasons. Right now, Ramsey has not proven himself to be the go to guy yet. That is why I ask, what is the fascination about Patrick Ramsey other than this dream of what you hope he will be, but not what he is presently.

Don't give me that crap about Ramsey had to face starters in the preseason and attempt to use that as a valid excuse as to why he isn't the starter. Ramsey is suppose to play against starters during the regular season. Using that excuse only further proves the point that he isn't ready to start for the Redskins. Secondly, Mark Brunell has not only proven himself renewed from preseason, but he has played pretty well this whole season. I'm not suggesting he has played flawlessly, but his overall play has been more than good to justify him being in the starting lineup over Patrick Ramsey. If it was Ramsey that proved himself the man, I'd support him. The bottom line is, I want this team to win, and at this moment, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance at doing so. If Patrick Ramsey comes in and proves me wrong...by all means I will root for him to do so.[/QUOTE]

So you don't believe that the possibility exists that the reason defenses stack the D-lines and shut down the running game has nothing to do with Brunells inability to throw the ball downfield with any kind of velocity?

Plenty of QB's in this league can dink and dunk which is what we do for the most part, there are plenty of stats to point to for both sides of the issue but the bottom line is we are not winning, and the last 3 games were absolutly winnable, as it was stated somewhere, we came from ahead to lose another one late, Brunell if he is the man, and the QB to lead us to a SB, then he has to pull those games out, there was nothing monumental he had to do to win any of those games, he was in a position to make a difference and FAILED!

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]What was his rating after the first 2 games?[/QUOTE]

After the first two games it was 82.3, after his first two starts it was 87.8... I don't see your point. :confused:

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]How about a sparkling 49.4 QB rating with an INT and 2 fumbles for starters?



So why did Ramsey struggle so mightily in the preseason with the new group of guys around him on offense, yet Brunell was able to step right in and post QB ratings of at least 81.5 and 2 games over 100 in his first 5 starts?[/QUOTE]

I seem to remember pointing this out when Ramsey was stinking it up during preseason [I]when it was actually happening[/I]. But everyone said I was "rushing to judgment."

Interesting.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]So you don't believe that the possibility exists that the reason defenses stack the D-lines and shut down the running game has nothing to do with Brunells inability to throw the ball downfield with any kind of velocity?

Plenty of QB's in this league can dink and dunk which is what we do for the most part, there are plenty of stats to point to for both sides of the issue but the bottom line is we are not winning, and the last 3 games were absolutly winnable, as it was stated somewhere, we came from ahead to lose another one late, Brunell if he is the man, and the QB to lead us to a SB, then he has to pull those games out, there was nothing monumental he had to do to win any of those games, he was in a position to make a difference and FAILED![/QUOTE]


You do realize this is season 2005, not season 2004? I have no idea where you coming from with this we never go deep excuse. You know that is nothing but garbage. I honestly believe you're going back and arguing about last year. I suppose it makes sense to throw it deep even though the receivers are double covered - yeah that's brilliant!

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I seem to remember pointing this out when Ramsey was stinking it up during preseason [I]when it was actually happening[/I]. But everyone said I was "rushing to judgment."

Interesting.[/QUOTE]

Yup, you did rush to judgment. I really don't care what people say about Ramsey's stats. People who are citing his stats obviously haven't been listening to what a lot of people like myself have been saying. I am not saying that Ramsey would have done better than Brunell this season. He probably would not have done better. BUT, in the long run, I think he's the better option.

People here in D.C. don't give you any chances. We rushed Ramsey like a bunch of fantasy owner, Madden-playing impatient Snyderitos. When we dump him and Brunell is too old to play, we'll go through yet another growing season with Campbell (aka losing season).

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]First of all, I never said Ramsey is garbage. I never made that comment. I have stated repeatedly that I think Ramsey is a good guy and going to be a decent QB in the league, but he hasn't developed the tools for it just yet. I also added that I believe he'll be a late bloomer quarterback that will have his best years after he's been in the league for several seasons.[/QUOTE]

Gee, I wonder why he hasn't developed the tools just yet?

[QUOTE=skinsguy] Mark Brunell has not only proven himself renewed from preseason, but he has played pretty well this whole season. I'm not suggesting he has played flawlessly, but his overall play has been more than good to justify him being in the starting lineup over Patrick Ramsey. If it was Ramsey that proved himself the man, I'd support him. The bottom line is, I want this team to win, and at this moment, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance at doing so. If Patrick Ramsey comes in and proves me wrong...by all means I will root for him to do so.[/QUOTE]

Mark Brunell does give us the best chance to win now; that's why he should remain the starter until we are definately out of the playoffs. But, at some point, when you know that the season is lost, shouldn't we look towards the future. Anyone who thinks Brunell is the future better have some miracle drugs to give him because he'll turn 36 next season.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]You do realize this is season 2005, not season 2004? I have no idea where you coming from with this we never go deep excuse. You know that is nothing but garbage. I honestly believe you're going back and arguing about last year. I suppose it makes sense to throw it deep even though the receivers are double covered - yeah that's brilliant![/QUOTE]


I absolutly agree, you have no idea. :confused:

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Gee, I wonder why he hasn't developed the tools just yet?[/QUOTE]

Well, for one thing, not everybody learns at the same pace. Steve Young wasn't a hall of fame quarterback from the start of his career by any means. Maybe alot depends on their development through their college years and the systems they grew under.

I also believe that a key element in the development of a young quarterback is to supply him max protection. Of course I believe that is vital for any quarterback to be successful, but it is essential for young quarterbacks to slow the game down enough to develop. In the case of Patrick Ramsey, he was thrown into the fire in a system where protection wasn't a huge aspect of the system. It finally caught up with him in year two of Spurrier's tenure, with Ramsey having to be sidelined because of injury. Now, I realize we have Spurrier fans here and that's okay. I love Spurrier as a college coach. I'm not bashing the guy. However, I believe his system really did a number on Patrick Ramsey.

Then you couple that with Jansen going down last season - which really cut back on the pass protection for Patrick. So, while he was supposed to have better pass protection last season (and Brunell as well,) it still wasn't the max protection that we had been used to seeing with Gibbs/Bugel offense. I think it was alot better than what Spurrier gave him, but not enough of what Patrick needed to get himself back on track. Because of this, I believe is one of the main reasons why we are seeing Mark instead of Patrick.

Of course one can argue that the pass protection isn't Patrick Ramsey's fault, and I agree with that statement. However, when the conditions are less than perfect, you need a good veteran quarterback who knows what to do to get out of trouble and make the play. Brunell has used his legs plenty of times to get us a first down or at least out of major trouble. Just look at the Dallas game for one example. So of course the next question is, how can Patrick learn to do the stuff that a vet like Brunell does to make these plays when things breakdown? Well, a part of that is watching Mark Brunell play and taking notes! Looking at film and seeing what a vet would do in certain situations. Patrick didn't have that option in his first year in the NFL. He had to learn from the likes of Danny Wuerful (ms) and Shane Matthews. Need I say more? But, I believe that watching Mark play can't hurt Patrick Ramsey. He is learning alot more about what to do, rather than what he learned not to do under the other QBs. Of course he's going to need playing time to do what he's learned by watching Brunell, but again, he needs max protection to help slow the game down so he can develop his skills.


[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]
Mark Brunell does give us the best chance to win now; that's why he should remain the starter until we are definately out of the playoffs. But, at some point, when you know that the season is lost, shouldn't we look towards the future. Anyone who thinks Brunell is the future better have some miracle drugs to give him because he'll turn 36 next season.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. Although, I'd probably put Patrick Ramsey back in the game. I am a strong believer in not forcing a rookie quarterback onto the field before his time. I realize everybody is wanting to see what Jason Campbell can do - myself included - but I think he needs one solid year on the bench to just watch the vets play and learn. Next season, I'd go back with Mark Brunell and stick with him until he gets injured or retires. At least putting Patrick Ramsey back on the field, it allows him to audition himself for other teams - although I'd probably still wanna hold on to Ramsey for one more year.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I absolutly agree, you have no idea. :confused:[/QUOTE]

Maybe you can tell me then, oh great one, why it makes sense to just launch the ball 50+ yards down the field even when your best deep threat is double covered, and everybody else drops back in coverage? This isn't playstation or Xbox and you don't get any mulligans if the pass is intercepted.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]After the first two games it was 82.3, after his first two starts it was 87.8... I don't see your point. :confused:[/QUOTE]


The point is you keep pointing to Brunells first 5 games which isn't fair to Ramsey, Brunell did nothing until the final 3 minutes against dallas his first 2 games, so it's this simple, don't compare a QB who was given 1 quarter of regular season play, against a QB who recieved 2 games to become comfortable with new players around him.

It just makes me laugh at the amount of people who know Ramsey wouldn't have become any better with playing time, maybe their right, who knows at this point, but to say Ramsey has been given a fair opportunity, I don't see how that's possible?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Also, for all the anti-ramseyfans, if Ramsey is so bad, why do you think Gibbs said he would not even CONSIDER trading him? If you recall, the Jets were interested in Ramsey after Pennington went down. Gibbs said unequivocally that the team wouldn't even consider trading Ramsey.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Also, for all the anti-ramseyfans, if Ramsey is so bad, why do you think Gibbs said he would not even CONSIDER trading him? If you recall, the Jets were interested in Ramsey after Pennington went down. Gibbs said unequivocally that the team wouldn't even consider trading Ramsey.[/QUOTE]


I can answer that. You would have a rookie left as a back-up and bringing in another QB means having to give him a crash course of the system. Ramsey is good enough and knowledgable enough to come in if we needed him to replace Brunell. Not to mention this would be a huge distraction for the team- which is something you try to avoid especially during the season.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Also, for all the anti-ramseyfans, if Ramsey is so bad, why do you think Gibbs said he would not even CONSIDER trading him? If you recall, the Jets were interested in Ramsey after Pennington went down. Gibbs said unequivocally that the team wouldn't even consider trading Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

Well part of it is that it's not the responsibility of the Redskins to help other teams if their QB goes down. Also, by stating unequivocally that you have no interest in trading him you keep his trade value up, or maybe even make it higher. It's possible that if Ramsey played his value would go up after other teams saw how well he played. Or he could totally tank it and his value would plummet. Especially with so many other QBs that are going to be on the market this spring.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I guess you want to point out the pre-season where Ramsey was facing NFL starters, with brand new WR's, and Brunell was facing the UPS loading dock crew.[/QUOTE]

It's not like Brunell was playing with a bunch of all-stars by his side though. He was throwing to the likes of Darnerien McCants, Jamin Elliott, Billy Baber; handing it off to Nemo and Jonathan Combs.