Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]i think he is washed up... he is scared to throw u guys act like he is the MVP he throws a good 10 yard pass yes but can he throw it up? well he hasnt in awhile.. and when i saw Ramsey in that 1st game he looked very good He threw deep and crisp... and we were more wide open.... so dont say what ramsey can't do..[/QUOTE]

Ramsey got pleanty of starts sense we had him and we have never been 5-6..

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]i think he is washed up... he is scared to throw u guys act like he is the MVP he throws a good 10 yard pass yes but can he throw it up? well he hasnt in awhile.. and when i saw Ramsey in that 1st game he looked very good He threw deep and crisp... and we were more wide open.... so dont say what ramsey can't do..[/QUOTE]

The little things Brunell does is what Ramsey cannot do. For example brunell can scramble, and avoid the sack which has been key throughout the season. Also Brunell knows how to check down and find differet targets something Ramsey has always struggled with. Brunell is a veteran leader. Brunell can improvise on the run and turn a broken play into a first down, where Ramsey would have taken a sack or fired a bomb into the wind. These elements of Brunells game is something that you cannot teach and Ramsey will never be sucessful with out these tools. Take a look at Joey H. and David Carr. Im not saying Brunell is the MVP but hes the best we got right now. To continuely bash Brunell is getting a little old buddy. Your really showing you have no idea what your talking about.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

The Brunell bashing and blind Ramsey supporting really is getting old, especially since Brunell has played very well this year and has proved that last year was nothing but a fluke.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Ramsey got pleanty of starts sense we had him and we have never been 5-6..[/QUOTE]
oh yeah what was his record after he took over under gibbs and that makes brunell worse he is a veteran as u said ...so is 5-6 good enough for u..he started good then his arm got tired ..hell i have seen him throw the ball awy on 3rd down in the 4th qtr...

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The Brunell bashing and blind Ramsey supporting really is getting old, especially since Brunell has played very well this year and has proved that last year was nothing but a fluke.[/QUOTE]
well bashing Ramsey saying what he cant do is getting old too and he hasnt played all that well the botton line is to win not look good...17 points isnt good enough to win

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]oh yeah what was his record after he took over under gibbs and that makes brunell worse he is a veteran as u said ...so is 5-6 good enough for u..he started good then his arm got tired ..hell i have seen him throw the ball awy on 3rd down in the 4th qtr...[/QUOTE]

5-6 is not good but my point is Ramsey did worse than that.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]well bashing Ramsey saying what he cant do is getting old too and he hasnt played all that well the botton line is to win not look good...17 points isnt good enough to win[/QUOTE]

Are you really trying to pile all the blame on Brunell??

He's not dropping passes or committing penalties in crucial situations.

He's done exactly what a Gibbs QB is supposed to do, manage the game and minimize mistakes.

He's the 5th ranked QB in the NFC right now and he has an excellent TD to INT ratio of 15-5.

He's not entirely to blame for any of the recent offensive struggles.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]i think he is washed up... he is scared to throw u guys act like he is the MVP he throws a good 10 yard pass yes but can he throw it up? well he hasnt in awhile.. and when i saw Ramsey in that 1st game he looked very good He threw deep and crisp... and we were more wide open.... so dont say what ramsey can't do..[/QUOTE]How many long passing plays do we have this year of 20 or more yards?

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]How many long passing plays do we have this year of 20 or more yards?[/QUOTE]
dunno but but last week we had 1 and we havent thrown it deep in a few weeks..even brian mitchell said that on sunday after the game throw it up..he is afraid to do that

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

Patrick Ramsey's [b]Carrier Numbers[/b]
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
Career 475 854 5545 55.6 6.49 64 33 29 75 74.2

Mark Burnell [b]This Years Numbers[/b]
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2005 202 349 2356 57.9 6.75 78 15 5 24 86.8


:biggthump Those are FACTs..Nuff said

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Patrick Ramsey's [b]Carrier Numbers[/b]
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
Career 475 854 5545 55.6 6.49 64 33 29 75 74.2

Mark Burnell [b]This Years Numbers[/b]
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2005 202 349 2356 57.9 6.75 78 15 5 24 86.8


:biggthump Those are FACTs..Nuff said[/QUOTE]
show me his numbers under gibbs and like everyones saying gibbs has been so much better than spurrier i know this much even when he was younger he couldnt have taken the pounding that ramsey took...lets see some of his number from last year

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]show me his numbers under gibbs and like everyones saying gibbs has been so much better than spurrier i know this much even when he was younger he couldnt have taken the pounding that ramsey took...lets see some of his number from last year[/QUOTE]

Are u by chance related to Ramsey?:insane:

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]dunno but but last week we had 1 and we havent thrown it deep in a few weeks..even brian mitchell said that on sunday after the game throw it up..he is afraid to do that[/QUOTE]No he is not affraid he just dosn't throw deep to throw deep and get a pick in double coverage like some QB's do.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Are u by chance related to Ramsey?:insane:[/QUOTE]
lol no i just think he has been here paid his dues ..and deserves his chance we need a spark and look at our record... i am loyal to the players that were here and suffered like lavar and ramsey ...and ...btw thanks for keeping it a debate and not calling names

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]show me his numbers under gibbs and like everyones saying gibbs has been so much better than spurrier i know this much even when he was younger he couldnt have taken the pounding that ramsey took...lets see some of his number from last year[/QUOTE]


Ramsey gp att comp % yds avy td lng [b]INT[/b] rat
2004 9 169 272 62. 11665 6.1 10 51 [b]11 [/b]74.8

Now do u want to see his pre-season stats???

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]No he is not affraid he just dosn't throw deep to throw deep and get a pick in double coverage like some QB's do.[/QUOTE]
a few things can happen so it gets picked off sometimes u get a pass interference and it also creates running room ..and the way our punter was punting sunday a 40 to 50 yard pass is better than he could do anyway... i think he cant do it cause of his old ass arm ..but he does throw a beautiful 10 yarder

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]a few things can happen so it gets picked off sometimes u get a pass interference and it also creates running room ..and the way our punter was punting sunday a 40 to 50 yard pass is better than he could do anyway... i think he cant do it cause of his old ass arm ..but he does throw a beautiful 10 yarder[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the insite [email="Ramsey@comcast.net"]Ramsey@comcast.net[/email]

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Ramsey gp att comp % yds avy td lng [b]INT[/b] rat
2004 9 169 272 62. 11665 6.1 10 51 [b]11 [/b]74.8

Now do u want to see his pre-season stats???[/QUOTE]
doesnt look that bad.. want him to have the gibbs advantage of a year under him..and no preaseason isnt any indication...we lost all our preseason games and won the superbowl..he looked crisp in the 1st game ...at least he isnt afraid to throw it

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven][QUOTE=skinsguy]

i don't buy that excuse. You don't lose all of your knowledge of football in a decade of being away from the game. Football is still the same as it was in 1992. Sure, the cap and personnel may change things, but when it comes to actual game play and preparing the team, if you've got the fundamentals down, your chances are much better.

Right now, this team is not adhering to one of the fundamentals -- play 4 complete quarters.[/QUOTE]


You misunderstood what I was saying. Gibbs didn't lose knowledge of football, but there is a period of adjustment to go through when you have been away from something for over a decade. That is an absolute fact. If Gibbs had coached in college or took a lesser coaching job in the NFL, then I would say there is no excuse; but that isn't the case.

The fundementals of football and the basics of how the game is played has not changed since that point. Each team still runs and passes the ball to score touchdowns. Rules have changed, however. Now, maybe defensive schemes have morphed into something a bit more complexed than what they were ten or fifteen years ago, but that is where Gibbs says that it is like him having to learn to coach all over again. He is taken his prior knowledge - knowledge he has not lost - and applying it to come up with tweaks in his system to counter the defensive schemes. So far for the most part - it has worked. But, the players have to do their jobs. Gibbs isn't committing holding penalities or personal fouls and Gibbs is not the one dropping the passes or fumbling.

This offense can score the points - it has proven that against the number one defense in the league - so if it is a point with Gibbs and his system being too old to work in this league, that is a bunch of B.S.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Thanks for the insite [email="Ramsey@comcast.net"]Ramsey@comcast.net[/email][/QUOTE]
lol

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

Right, Brunell is afraid to throw deep, it has nothing to do with the way the defenses are playing us now, keeping the safeties over the top to not allow the deep stuff.

:yeahright

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Right, Brunell is afraid to throw deep, it has nothing to do with the way the defenses are playing us now, keeping the safeties over the top to not allow the deep stuff.

:yeahright[/QUOTE]
well then lets see that great offensive genius mind that i know gibbs has ..i remember gibbs going in at half time and countering anything the defenses were doing ...i havent seen that this time around

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]well then lets see that great offensive genius mind that i know gibbs has ..i remember gibbs going in at half time and countering anything the defenses were doing ...i havent seen that this time around[/QUOTE]

I thought the offensive struggles were Brunell's fault?

;)

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I thought the offensive struggles were Brunell's fault?

;)[/QUOTE]
well ur saying it was the defenses the way there were playing ...so i'm responding to that!!!

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

matty my reply has nothing to do with mark brunell,and everything to do with p ramsey.the truth of the matter is that #8 is 35 years old and neither one of our backups has much experience.that and the fact that both ramsey and cambell are about as mobile as a rock.with the way brunell played last year,lord knows if we will see that side of him again,but if we do,someone had better be ready.for some reason the coaches dont have any faith in ramsey.and dont give me that "its what they are seeing in practice"crap because im sure mark brunell wasnt sucking in practice last year and we all know what the results of last year were.the facts are,and i love coach gibbs to death but..brunell shouldve been yanked earlier to see if ramsey has a place on the redskins,or in that instance,in the nfl

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

Brunell hasnt had any great long throws since week 3 against Dallas. When was the last time you saw Moss or anyone for that matter catch one of Brunell's passes in stride? and then go for a touchdown? Great QB's can "thread the needle" and are able to throw into double coverage, he can't or won't for some reason. Great! Brunell doesnt have many pix this season, but that doesnt often times happen when you throw the ball 10-15 yards, or do a WR screen, thats where all of his passes are going. I would much rather have a QB with a future (Ramsey) back there willing to throw the long ball, and maybe get a pic, than Brunell who when the game is on the line prefers to take a sack or throw it out of bounds. Brunell has showed sparks of greatness while with the Skins, but so has Ramsey, he may throw pics, but he doesnt fumble every time he gets sacked. Give him a shot!

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]matty my reply has nothing to do with mark brunell,and everything to do with p ramsey.the truth of the matter is that #8 is 35 years old and neither one of our backups has much experience.that and the fact that both ramsey and cambell are about as mobile as a rock.with the way brunell played last year,lord knows if we will see that side of him again,but if we do,someone had better be ready.for some reason the coaches dont have any faith in ramsey.and dont give me that "its what they are seeing in practice"crap because im sure mark brunell wasnt sucking in practice last year and we all know what the results of last year were.the facts are,and i love coach gibbs to death but..brunell shouldve been yanked earlier to see if ramsey has a place on the redskins,or in that instance,in the nfl[/QUOTE]
so right

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42]Brunell hasnt had any great long throws since week 3 against Dallas. When was the last time you saw Moss or anyone for that matter catch one of Brunell's passes in stride? and then go for a touchdown? Great QB's can "thread the needle" and are able to throw into double coverage, he can't or won't for some reason. Great! Brunell doesnt have many pix this season, but that doesnt often times happen when you throw the ball 10-15 yards, or do a WR screen, thats where all of his passes are going. I would much rather have a QB with a future (Ramsey) back there willing to throw the long ball, and maybe get a pic, than Brunell who when the game is on the line prefers to take a sack or throw it out of bounds. Brunell has showed sparks of greatness while with the Skins, but so has Ramsey, he may throw pics, but he doesnt fumble every time he gets sacked. Give him a shot![/QUOTE]
perfect

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42]Brunell hasnt had any great long throws since week 3 against Dallas. When was the last time you saw Moss or anyone for that matter catch one of Brunell's passes in stride? and then go for a touchdown? Great QB's can "thread the needle" and are able to throw into double coverage, he can't or won't for some reason. Great! Brunell doesnt have many pix this season, but that doesnt often times happen when you throw the ball 10-15 yards, or do a WR screen, thats where all of his passes are going. I would much rather have a QB with a future (Ramsey) back there willing to throw the long ball, and maybe get a pic, than Brunell who when the game is on the line prefers to take a sack or throw it out of bounds. Brunell has showed sparks of greatness while with the Skins, but so has Ramsey, he may throw pics, but he doesnt fumble every time he gets sacked. Give him a shot![/QUOTE]

Ramsey has a live arm but so did Heath.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Ramsey has a live arm but so did Heath.[/QUOTE]
Dont get me started on that 1 please..lmao

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

i not trying to rip brunell but sooner or later some one has to find out if patrick can play pro football.as for this season,brunell plays the whole season unless we are mathematically eliminated

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]for some reason the coaches dont have any faith in ramsey.and dont give me that "its what they are seeing in practice"crap because im sure mark brunell wasnt sucking in practice last year and we all know what the results of last year were.the facts are,and i love coach gibbs to death but..brunell shouldve been yanked earlier to see if ramsey has a place on the redskins,or in that instance,in the nfl[/QUOTE]

So why is Ramsey on the bench??

Is this another personal "conspiracy theory" vendetta the coaches have against a player, like Williams with Arrington?

Are the Skins holding back Ramsey because they don't like him for some odd reason?

No, it's because what they've seen from him, they don't trust that he is a better QB than Mark Brunell. And with the way Brunell has played this year how can anyone disagree with them?

The Ramsey apologists keep pointing to what could be with Ramsey... are you saying we should have replaced Brunell a few weeks ago when the team was still in the hunt? Why in the hell would we replace a QB who is having a stellar season... just to see what Ramsey may or may not be capable of?? Huh? You really lost me there.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

im not saying replace brunell.my beef is with what happened last year.now we really dont know what p ramsey is capable of given a full season without the threat of being yanked.there is no way i have given up on this team.i was around when coach gibbs came around the first time,started 0-5,wound up being 8-8.as far as im concerned,this team is very capable of running the table.as far as brunell(who is soon to be 36)he is having a pro bowl type year,given the fact that the redskins have had pretty much one receiver all year,not counting chris cooley

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

Ok, I thought you were talking about this year.

I still don't understand why people are still hung up on last year though.

Brunell has had 1 subpar year out of 13. That's called a fluke in my book. I get the feeling some people are just waiting (hoping?) for him to crash and burn again.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

People are just trying to find something to complain about. Most of those "realists" who only find things to complain about use last year like some crutch. And I do believe they hope we crumble this year so as to be proven right. It seems like being right is more important than seeing this team succeed with this current coaching staff and roster.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

I seriously thought Brunnel was washed up. I applauded the Brunnel benching and the move to starting Ramsey and naming him the starter for 2005. It was quite apparent during the preseason, Brunnel put the team in a better position to win. Ramsey was not progressing. What is the cost of a quality starting quarterback? In the NFL, I would say very high. Whether you like him or not, you would have to agree that Brunnel has performed admiringly. Ramsey needs to move on and find out if he can start in the NFL. I just don't see that happening in Washington. The Skins need draft picks to beef up the defensive line and an athletic/physical wide receiver (not TO). They especially need a pass rushing defensive end. That is priority one.

I was very disappointed with last year's draft. Defensive end and wide receiver should have been on the board last year. Here are some defensive ends that were drafted fourth round or beyond.
Chauncey Davis ATL 6'1" 258 lbs. Florida St.
Chris Canty DAL 6'7" 295 lbs. Virginia

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

Guys, Brunell had a 96.83 QB rating last week and did not turn the ball over and we lost. Our loses are more on the D than anything Brunell has or has not done this year. He has an 86.8 rating for the year, which is higher than Ramsey has ever had. We have had 4th Quarter meltdowns because we could not get our D off the field. Ramsey is not the answer. Playing D in the 4th Qtr is the answer.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=scowan]Guys, Brunell had a 96.83 QB rating last week and did not turn the ball over and we lost. Our loses are more on the D than anything Brunell has or has not done this year. He has an 86.8 rating for the year, which is higher than Ramsey has ever had. We have had 4th Quarter meltdowns because we could not get our D off the field. Ramsey is not the answer. Playing D in the 4th Qtr is the answer.[/QUOTE]
True. It sure would have been nice to have a field goal or TD in the fourth quarter of the past two games, though.

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07]True. It sure would have been nice to have a field goal or TD in the fourth quarter of the past two games, though.[/QUOTE]
That's all Brunell's fault??

Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...
 

i not saying anything negative at all about brunell except for his age.he cant play forever.then who will be our next qback?its basically unheard of having 2 number one draft picks at such a close age on one team