Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I totally agree with you firstdown. We're just blind optimists.[/QUOTE]

The only problem I have with the total optimists is that my life experience is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. By that I mean, if Redskin fans would raise hell about Snyder's methods, maybe just maybe he would eventually have to listen. Snyder cares about public opinion, and he cares about the fans. If no one ever questions or bitches about moves made by this team, then that pretty much turns us all into Kool-Aid drinking fans who never question our team's moves. Id rather stop being a fan than to follow blindly, never questioning authority. Its easy to come on here and say "never question Joe Gibbs", but do those of you who are total optimists ever come to this site and say "yep, in hindsight, Gibbs was totally wrong" . If you are going to complain about the bitching and moaning on this board, don't you have to fess up when the bitching and moaning is legit?

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

what more can a skins fan want out of owner?so far,in his brief time as redskins owner,mr snyder has pretty much tried everything(other than the draft)to make the redskins a winner.there isnt a redskin fan out here that can say he isnt willing to spend what it takes.we went thru that,now we are going old school by trying to keep a certain nucleus of "core players" and filling in where needed.i think his judgement in the past may have been alittle off,but i think what he wants in the end for the skins is what we all want,another super bowl trophy

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]The only problem I have with the total optimists is that my life experience is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. By that I mean, if Redskin fans would raise hell about Snyder's methods, maybe just maybe he would eventually have to listen. Snyder cares about public opinion, and he cares about the fans. If no one ever questions or bitches about moves made by this team, then that pretty much turns us all into Kool-Aid drinking fans who never question our team's moves. Id rather stop being a fan than to follow blindly, never questioning authority. Its easy to come on here and say "never question Joe Gibbs", but do those of you who are total optimists ever come to this site and say "yep, in hindsight, Gibbs was totally wrong" . If you are going to complain about the bitching and moaning on this board, don't you have to fess up when the bitching and moaning is legit?[/QUOTE]What I ment was the person who was always looking at the glass half empty no matter what.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]what more can a skins fan want out of owner?so far,in his brief time as redskins owner,mr snyder has pretty much tried everything(other than the draft)to make the redskins a winner.[/QUOTE]

Up until last year, Snyder did nothing but attempt to buy championships, and in that time, he hasn't even been able to buy a winning record. If he continues to keep his mouth shut, and let the coaches do their job, I'll be a little more accepting of him.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

southpaw would you will be more accepting of snyder if he spent nothing,sitting quietly along the sidelines,making his millions,and watch out team turn into the arizona cardinals?he tried a veteran coach(schottenheimer) a college coach(spurrier) old school(gibbs)there isnt a redskin fan out there that wasnt happy with all the big name,high priced talent he brought in to help the skins try to win.say whay you want,that formula was mildly sucessful(playoffs 1999)i do think we are going the right way this time

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

this is where we come to sulk, bitch, and moan. if we ever get into the playoffs on a consistent basis the site's traffic will be nonexistent!

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Up until last year, Snyder did nothing but attempt to buy championships, and in that time, he hasn't even been able to buy a winning record. If he continues to keep his mouth shut, and let the coaches do their job, I'll be a little more accepting of him.[/QUOTE]


But what you don't understand is that Snyder actually thought he was helping the team by doing so. And really, Snyder was basically acting upon the intentions of what we hear quite often around here everytime the Redskins lose or don't play up to what we think they should be playing to - that is to get rid of the coach and put one in if we're not up to championship level or let's go out and sign big names. Snyder had to go through some major AND costly growing pains to finally see that that approach was not the best for this franchise. I believe he redeemed himself a bit on hiring Joe Gibbs back as head coach. Because of this, I believe Snyder has so much respect for Joe, that he is staying back and letting Gibbs run the team. That is probably the best thing Snyder has done since becoming owner. I realize that he's still heavily involved in the player decision making - I'm sure Jack Kent Cooke probably wanted some sense of involvement as well.

I believe if and when Joe turns this team around and gets them back into being contenders, Snyder will pull back quite a bit - at least as long as Gibbs is there or whoever takes over for Gibbs maintains this steady climb back into contention.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Up until last year, Snyder did nothing but attempt to buy championships, and in that time, he hasn't even been able to buy a winning record. If he continues to keep his mouth shut, and let the coaches do their job, I'll be a little more accepting of him.[/QUOTE]
I dont understand why people hate him so much...would you rather have the eagles owner who lets every important free agent get away...or be way under the cap...hey he made mistakse but so he wanted a championship.... he does put his money where his mouth is...HE WANTS TO WIN!!!! but what about the good things like paying Williams and most of the coaches more money than they would make as head coaches...it must be great to be a coach and know if i want a player Mr Snyder will do his best to keep that player.... Plus i kinda understand him... why buy round steak if you can buy porterhouse or filet mignon ..he saw it as getting the best..it's been a long time since he has interfered.... I personally love our owner... look who else would buy a whole mall just so the fans could park?

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Up until last year, Snyder did nothing but attempt to buy championships, and in that time, he hasn't even been able to buy a winning record. If he continues to keep his mouth shut, and let the coaches do their job, I'll be a little more accepting of him.[/QUOTE]What has he said in the past 1 1/2 years. The only thing I remember Snyder doing is bringing in Gibbs, donated some money, kept ticket prices the same, and said he would have more porta poties in the parking lots which he did. That alone should count for a little love.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]what more can a skins fan want out of owner?so far,in his brief time as redskins owner,mr snyder has pretty much tried everything(other than the draft)to make the redskins a winner.there isnt a redskin fan out here that can say he isnt willing to spend what it takes.we went thru that,now we are going old school by trying to keep a certain nucleus of "core players" and filling in where needed.i think his judgement in the past may have been alittle off,but i think what he wants in the end for the skins is what we all want,another super bowl trophy[/QUOTE]
We couldn't ask for more as far as I am concerned he is the best owner in football!!!

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]The only problem I have with the total optimists is that my life experience is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. By that I mean, if Redskin fans would raise hell about Snyder's methods, maybe just maybe he would eventually have to listen. Snyder cares about public opinion, and he cares about the fans. If no one ever questions or bitches about moves made by this team, then that pretty much turns us all into Kool-Aid drinking fans who never question our team's moves. Id rather stop being a fan than to follow blindly, never questioning authority. Its easy to come on here and say "never question Joe Gibbs", but do those of you who are total optimists ever come to this site and say "yep, in hindsight, Gibbs was totally wrong" . If you are going to complain about the bitching and moaning on this board, don't you have to fess up when the bitching and moaning is legit?[/QUOTE]


But honestly Paul, I don't believe we have very many people like that. I might appear to be a "total" optimist sometimes because I choose to see if there is anything positive that has come from a bad situation. I don't believe that is being irrational. That is just a sense of being encouraging. As fans, it is our job to encourage our team to continue to fight through the rough times. Believe me, our team feeds off of us fans who attend the games each weekend. Naturally, those of us who are old enough to remember how it was when Gibbs was here the first time has a little more patience with the guy, because we know what he is capable of. It is not to say that we don't question him, because sometimes he does things that leave us scratching our heads. ALL coaches do that from time to time because they are not perfect creatures. However, for the most part, I would never question Joe Gibbs as far as his overall knowledge of the sport and what it takes to be a winner. He has proven to be a winner before in both football and NASCAR, and there is no reason to assume that he has all of a sudden forgotten how to coach.

What gets me, however, are those on here who actually seriously believe they know more about coaching than what Joe Gibbs does. To me, that is being irrational.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

This has been a very well discussed thread and I have actually taken something constructive from each and every post. We should take pride in the fact we do have some of the most intelligent fans of the game, and sometimes frustration with loosing breeds negativity and that's human nature."The nature of the beast" so to speak" However,
I continue to remain the eternal optomist bacause I truly believe Gibbs has this team heading in the right direction. I believe we're going to win every game we play, and try to maintain a positive attitude win or loose.

When I look back over our season thus far, there's only one game we had no chance of winning, and that was the Giants. That alone enables me to continue being optomistic despite the fact there are times in games when I don't think we play to our capabilities. With every team in the league, there are things we can improve on,and I have faith in this coaching staff that we can get it done. It will be a tremendous boost to this team if we can win our remaining games. Playofffs' or not, I have seen marked improvement over last year.

GOOD LUCK THE REST OF THE WAY!!

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]But honestly Paul, I don't believe we have very many people like that. I might appear to be a "total" optimist sometimes because I choose to see if there is anything positive that has come from a bad situation. I don't believe that is being irrational. That is just a sense of being encouraging. As fans, it is our job to encourage our team to continue to fight through the rough times. Believe me, our team feeds off of us fans who attend the games each weekend. Naturally, those of us who are old enough to remember how it was when Gibbs was here the first time has a little more patience with the guy, because we know what he is capable of. It is not to say that we don't question him, because sometimes he does things that leave us scratching our heads. ALL coaches do that from time to time because they are not perfect creatures. However, for the most part, I would never question Joe Gibbs as far as his overall knowledge of the sport and what it takes to be a winner. He has proven to be a winner before in both football and NASCAR, and there is no reason to assume that he has all of a sudden forgotten how to coach.

What gets me, however, are those on here who actually seriously believe they know more about coaching than what Joe Gibbs does. To me, that is being irrational.[/QUOTE]

Nice post. It's important to remember that yes Gibbs did go to 4 Super Bowls (and win 3) but he didn't coach for 4 years. He was here for 12 years. And for the most part all those other years he was building the team toward the next title-usually, if not always, with a new running back and quarterback. So patience is key. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

Negativity is one thing. What bugs me is when certain people believe that if you're really vocal after a loss that makes you a more passionate fan. Or if you have the balls to question Gibbs regularly you're a smarter fan. Ramseyfan I know gets frustrated after a loss, the fact that he comes on here and is generally calm about doesn't mean he's an apathetic imbecile. Matty has questioned decisions made by Gibbs. That he generally leans toward trusting Gibbs to make the right decision doesn't make him a brain-dead idiot.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

Holla at me when were 10-6.......

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]First of all, the score was never 10-3, it was 10-7. Second, yeah we had it, but it's a different ballgame if the Rams pick that fumble up in the end zone. Shit happens, and you have to expect it to. It's not running the score up, it's ensuring that if something goes wrong, you're still in control. Gibbs never coached when the 2-pt conversion was in the NFL, and I don't know if he's calculating the scores right. 17-9 is a touchdown away, and 24-9 is still only two scores. If Gibbs can assume his guys are going to play "mistake free football," then he should trust them to make plays. Why on earth did we not try to score before halftime? That's the kind of things that have lost us games in the past. Santana Moss should have touched the ball in the second half. Joe Gibbs' idea of not being conservative involves running a very improperly timed trick play, like a reverse to start the game or a toss-and-pass when we should have just run a toss, or a deep pass. No need to combine the two.

I still firmly believe that we have the talent and desire to go 4-0 regardless of what plays are called. The O Line is looking good, and that's what our success will hinge on.[/QUOTE]

Boy, sounds like you should be on the side line. Point is, Gibbs is not going to take unnecessary risks. deal with it. or get into coaching and run a team the way you want and see how you would call those plays in those situations.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]But what you don't understand is that Snyder actually thought he was helping the team by doing so. And really, Snyder was basically acting upon the intentions of what we hear quite often around here everytime the Redskins lose or don't play up to what we think they should be playing to - that is to get rid of the coach and put one in if we're not up to championship level or let's go out and sign big names.[/QUOTE]

Wow, looks like I touched a nerve with the Snyder comment. Is the Warpath owned by the Redskins too? I mean, I know the typical attitude of a Redskins fan is the "what have you done for me lately" mindset, but forgive me if I don't bow down to our genius owner just yet.

First of all, I don't doubt for a second that Snyder wants to win, but when his answer to the problem is to throw money at it, it makes me wonder how he was ever successful in business. He's the second generation of the Al Davis and Jerry Jones type owners, and I'm pretty sure we all have similar feelings about those guys.

Secondly, don't doubt for a second that all the crap that he does "for the fans" is for any other reason than to make more money. Wow, he didn't raise ticket prices? That would have been funny if he had, since Washington has been mediocre or worse for the last six seasons, and the only team with higher average ticket prices is the Super Bowl champion, New England Patriots. Snyder also opened up Redskins practice to the fans. Wow, that's cool. Just don't forget your $20 a head just to watch them practice.

So excuse me if I'm not the biggest Daniel Snyder fan. It'll take a little more than one "good" decision to make me forget all of the f--k ups over the last several years.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Wow, looks like I touched a nerve with the Snyder comment. Is the Warpath owned by the Redskins too? I mean, I know the typical attitude of a Redskins fan is the "what have you done for me lately" mindset, but forgive me if I don't bow down to our genius owner just yet.

First of all, I don't doubt for a second that Snyder wants to win, but when his answer to the problem is to throw money at it, it makes me wonder how he was ever successful in business. He's the second generation of the Al Davis and Jerry Jones type owners, and I'm pretty sure we all have similar feelings about those guys.

Secondly, don't doubt for a second that all the crap that he does "for the fans" is for any other reason than to make more money. Wow, he didn't raise ticket prices? That would have been funny if he had, since Washington has been mediocre or worse for the last six seasons, and the only team with higher average ticket prices is the Super Bowl champion, New England Patriots. Snyder also opened up Redskins practice to the fans. Wow, that's cool. Just don't forget your $20 a head just to watch them practice.

So excuse me if I'm not the biggest Daniel Snyder fan. It'll take a little more than one "good" decision to make me forget all of the f--k ups over the last several years.[/QUOTE]


I think you have misunderstood my post. I am in know way suggesting I am a Daniel Snyder fan. I think you have taken my post way out of context. My point about Daniel Snyder is, through his ignorance, he thought he was doing what needed to be done to get this team to be successful. Unfortunately, you can't buy success like maybe you can in the regular business world. NFL ownership is way different.

However, I believe he has realized the idiot mistakes he's made in the past and hiring someone like Gibbs who can not only coach, but who can be a great organizer and motivator is a step in the right direction for this franchise.

Ease up on the hostility please.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Wow, looks like I touched a nerve with the Snyder comment. Is the Warpath owned by the Redskins too? I mean, I know the typical attitude of a Redskins fan is the "what have you done for me lately" mindset, but forgive me if I don't bow down to our genius owner just yet.

First of all, I don't doubt for a second that Snyder wants to win, but when his answer to the problem is to throw money at it, it makes me wonder how he was ever successful in business. He's the second generation of the Al Davis and Jerry Jones type owners, and I'm pretty sure we all have similar feelings about those guys.

Secondly, don't doubt for a second that all the crap that he does "for the fans" is for any other reason than to make more money. Wow, he didn't raise ticket prices? That would have been funny if he had, since Washington has been mediocre or worse for the last six seasons, and the only team with higher average ticket prices is the Super Bowl champion, New England Patriots. Snyder also opened up Redskins practice to the fans. Wow, that's cool. Just don't forget your $20 a head just to watch them practice.

So excuse me if I'm not the biggest Daniel Snyder fan. It'll take a little more than one "good" decision to make me forget all of the f--k ups over the last several years.[/QUOTE]

Finally someone that is on my page. We have been mediocre since danny has taken over,never better. The fact this guy wants to win is undeniable, however the ways he is trying to achieve this is wrong. Constant turnover with coaches, players is just rediculous. Him, Vinny, and Pepper rogers are in no terms qualified to make player personel decisions. He wants to buy the biggest name, buy a championship. If you look at recent superbowl winners they are built from the ground up, not the wallet. Until we have football knowledgable people pulling the strings, we will be the same team year in and year out. And Joe is a great coach, he is not the builder of those teams that won superbowls. Casserly and bethard were the builders, joe was the coach only!

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Boy, sounds like you should be on the side line. Point is, Gibbs is not going to take unnecessary risks. deal with it. or get into coaching and run a team the way you want and see how you would call those plays in those situations.[/QUOTE]I would love to get into coaching but not many programs are looking for a 24 year old to run a team. I would really like to have the job of "replay consultant," since the last guy who did it obviously had no idea what he was doing.
My point is that the risks that some may consider "unnecessary" are the ones that could have won us games in November had we taken them. And I do deal with Gibbs' playcalling, by sharing my opinion on this message board. I mean, what's the board for, if not to question possibilities and discuss games with fellow Redskin fans?

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Finally someone that is on my page. We have been mediocre since danny has taken over,never better. The fact this guy wants to win is undeniable, however the ways he is trying to achieve this is wrong. Constant turnover with coaches, players is just rediculous. Him, Vinny, and Pepper rogers are in no terms qualified to make player personel decisions. He wants to buy the biggest name, buy a championship. If you look at recent superbowl winners they are built from the ground up, not the wallet. Until we have football knowledgable people pulling the strings, we will be the same team year in and year out. And Joe is a great coach, he is not the builder of those teams that won superbowls. Casserly and bethard were the builders, joe was the coach only![/QUOTE]


My not sure who is denying this? Nobody here are Snyder apologists, I certainly am not! But, I have to disagree with Joe Gibbs not having a hand in building those championship teams in the 80's and 90's. Joe was just as much a part of constructing those teams as the GM's were.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Ease up on the hostility please.[/QUOTE]

For the record, I wasn't being hostile towards you at all. If there was any hostility, it was towards the sentiment that Snyder is a good owner. Your comment just happened to be the one I qouted.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]For the record, I wasn't being hostile towards you at all. If there was any hostility, it was towards the sentiment that Snyder is a good owner. Your comment just happened to be the one I qouted.[/QUOTE]

But I have never stated Snyder is a good owner.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

Getting back to the subject of negativity, I wonder how much of the negativity will be neturalized once we make the playoffs? For instance, if we make the playoffs this year by winning out, what will fans have to say against this team then? Of course they might still have some reason for negativity if we are one and done in the playoffs, but I would think IF this team ends this season at 10-6 and has a playoff appearance, there would bound to be no more Gibbs - Spurrier comparisions. Which right now seems quite ridiculous. We will have shown a complete turnaround from the previous year (6-10 to 10-6.)

In my opinion IF this team is 10-6 and playoff bound this year, it says alot for a team that, in my opinion, is still missing some pieces it needs to be a contender.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

Well, I do have alot of hope for the season... If we have the momentum of running the table at the end of the year and go to the playoffs... our problems will have been fixed by then..., and I say that because it would take fixing all of our problems in order to win out. We beat the cowboys in 4 minutes of football... I wouldn't rely on that happening again, and they're playing alot better now. Did you see what they did with Tomlinson?? Then the Giants come to town who are the only team to lay a good old country ass whoopin on us in a long while. If we are to win those games, we have to fix our offense and maintain a solid defense without being bitten by the injury bug.

The next subject to spark a contraversy (no matter what the outcome of the season is) will be the offseason cap moves... followed by the draft (how good can we make out with 2 picks or whatever we have left) and then when are we going to put Campbell in there to lead us to glory.

And to all of you guys who told me I was crazy for thinking we should keep Rock Cartwright on the roster this past offseason...:spank:

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]
In my opinion IF this team is 10-6 and playoff bound this year, it says alot for a team that, in my opinion, is still missing some pieces it needs to be a contender.[/QUOTE]

We probably won't go 10-6 (yes, I noticed you said "IF"). But, I honestly think that we will have made a statement by going 9-7. Hell, we'll make a statement by just going 8-8 with the 2nd toughest schedule in the league.

Remember that we haven't had a winning season since 1999. Remember that we haven't had a .500 team since 2000. Remember, Don Banks called us the worst 3-0 team in the history of the NFL. Also remember that Dr. Z said that we would win 5 games this year. Remember that we lost our #2 and #3 wideouts. Remember that people said we made more of a statement by winning close games to Denver and Kansas City than beating the NFC North leading Bears, NFC West leading Seahawks, and the Cowboys.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]We probably won't go 10-6 (yes, I noticed you said "IF"). But, I honestly think that we will have made a statement by going 9-7. Hell, we'll make a statement by just going 8-8 with the 2nd toughest schedule in the league.

Remember that we haven't had a winning season since 1999. Remember that we haven't had a .500 team since 2000. Remember, Don Banks called us the worst 3-0 team in the history of the NFL. Also remember that Dr. Z said that we would win 5 games this year. Remember that we lost our #2 and #3 wideouts. Remember that people said we made more of a statement by winning close games to Denver and Kansas City than beating the NFC North leading Bears, NFC West leading Seahawks, and the Cowboys.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Ramseyfan! I think we are at the tip of the iceburg....we just need a little more to get us over the line!

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

Don't be surprised if we are 7-9.

Re: Where is the negativity???
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]Well, I do have alot of hope for the season... If we have the momentum of running the table at the end of the year and go to the playoffs... our problems will have been fixed by then..., and I say that because it would take fixing all of our problems in order to win out. We beat the cowboys in 4 minutes of football... I wouldn't rely on that happening again, and they're playing alot better now. Did you see what they did with Tomlinson?? [/QUOTE]


Do you mean they are playing better by in the last six games 3-3 record or dropping the last two games. Or the limited games they have won convincingly all year with the exception of a few like the Arizona game or you could be talking about where they also got beat up and down the field by Philadelphia and played for the last four minutes and pulled out a victory similar to us or the manner they lost to Denver with a very comparable score and outcome as us. Glad you feel the Cowboys are playing so much better but you feel your own team is playing so bad, in comes the negativity that the post is about. I did see what they did to Thomlinson 19 for 72 with 1 TD, the reason he did not have more is at the beginning of the year if you remember how San Diego was criticized for not throwing one pass to Thomlinson or incorporating their best player the first 2 or 3 weeks. I think you may have had it mixed up with what the Eagles did to him which was 17 carries for 7 yards and 4 rec for 26.
I also get caught up in the Redskins and the mistakes, but if we watch some of these other teams that we say will beat us they have similar records, similar problems, etc... I know it is frustrating to see our beloved Redskins lose, but if you put things in perspective there are really only two teams in the whole NFL that are far above anyone else and that would be the Colts and questionable the Bengals. The rest of the teams we can and many should have beaten (Denver and Tampa Kill me). Parity in the NFL is a bitch for the fans, especially those who have watched the Skins of the 80's and 90's and football from that time period when Dynasties and a predictable NFL was rampant. If we had Snyder back in the day before salary cap we would win every Super Bowl, we would have the best talent unquestionable that Gibbs and his staff could handle and keep them for years and years.