Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack]Well lets just compare these two fine players and see just where the idiocy lies. These stats are from Sean Taylors first 2 years in the league compared to Roy Williams first two years in the league:

Taylor: Tackles 106, Assists 23, Sacks 2, INT's 6, TD's 0 Pass Def 16
Williams: Tackles 143, Assists 28, Sacks 4, INT's 7, TD's 2, Pass Def 9

Now lets look at Williams in the last two years in the league, which was Taylors first two years, so use the same stats to compare:

Williams Tackles 139, Assists 33, Sacks 2.5, INT's 4, TD's 1, Pass Def 15

Now keep in mind that these guys play two different positions, except one year Williams did play FS. Williams is predominatly a SS and Taylor a FS. With that in mind it make sense that Taylor have a few more pass defense's than Williams. Williams has been to the Pro Bowl as a FS and a SS, and Taylor has not even gone as a FS.

So if I am an idiot for thinking Roy Williams is a better safety than Sean Taylor, ok!

Do I think Roy Williams is the BEST safety in the league...no way, I think Ed Reed is in that top spot. But I certainly believe, and have the numbers and pro bowl selections (whereas you just have an opinion) to back it, that he is better than Sean Taylor.

Please don't get me wrong here. I do NOT think Taylor is a slouch at safety, quite to the contrary, he is an OUTSTANDING safety. I just happen to think Williams is better.[/QUOTE]

If you want to go by raw numbers (tackles, INTs, etc.) then take a look at Adrian Wilson's this year - over 100 tackles and 6 INTs! Roy should have more tackles than Taylor, any decent SS should have more than a FS. The fact remains that Roy cannot cover anyone downfield when asked to do so. Why don't you take a look at Shockey's numbers in two games against the Cowboys this year. Many of those yards were against Roy Williams' piss poor coverage. I've already mentioned his travails in deep zone against Santana Moss, so I won't beat that dead horse any further.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister]If you want to go by raw numbers (tackles, INTs, etc.) then take a look at Adrian Wilson's this year - over 100 tackles and 6 INTs! Roy should have more tackles than Taylor, any decent SS should have more than a FS. The fact remains that Roy cannot cover anyone downfield when asked to do so. Why don't you take a look at Shockey's numbers in two games against the Cowboys this year. Many of those yards were against Roy Williams' piss poor coverage. I've already mentioned his travails in deep zone against Santana Moss, so I won't beat that dead horse any further.[/QUOTE]
Make that 6 SACKS for A. Wilson.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack]Now keep in mind that these guys play two different positions, except one year Williams did play FS. Williams is predominatly a SS and Taylor a FS. With that in mind it make sense that Taylor have a few more pass defense's than Williams. Williams has been to the Pro Bowl as a FS and a SS, and Taylor has not even gone as a FS.[/QUOTE]

By your logic, it also makes sense that Williams gets more tackles(horse collars, in Roy's case) than Taylor, since strong safeties generally play the run first, and the pass second, while free safeties play the pass first, and the run second. Williams does play the run very well, but he also bites on play action more than anyone in the league. He also appears to have learned pass coverage from a block of swiss cheese.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

The Pro Bowl is a game that plays to a very empty house. The ratings on TV are only slightly better than for a Ron Popeil infomercial on his new invention - the water soluble life raft.

Essentially, no one gives a rat's ass about this game.

Yet, every year, people get excited about who will go to play in this game that no one cares about and who was wrongfully excluded from playing in this game that no one cares about. I just don't get that.

Sean Taylor had a much better year than Roy Williams did this year. And remember, I'm the guy who thinks Sean Taylor is an unredeemed M E A T H E A D.

Mark Brunell has had a better year than Michael Vick.

Markus Washington deserves some kind of recognition for his play this year - - although I can't find a lot of fault with the OLBs picked for the NFC squad.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

I have a friend who knows someone important on the Pro Bowl Selection Committee, and this is the REAL reason Sean Taylor didn't get selected:

They wanted to pick him over Roy "Horse Collar" Williams, but the Pro Bowl game conflicted with his court date.



Don't mean to player-hate (literally) on ST, but I do think that off season rediculousness is justification for not making the roster, despite how well he played all season. If he can put together a full season w/o involving the police and show he can be a solid "cetizen" and role model - then he'll be ready to represent the NFL in the Pro Bowl.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

Ooops, forgot to add one thing to the last post about Skins' players who might have been worthy of Pro Bowl apperances.

Frankly, I don't think Chris Samuels belongs on the Pro Bowl team. Here's the simple reason. I don't think he's the best OT on the Redskins; Jon Jansen is. So I think either Samuels got a "free pass" here or Jansen "got screwed".

You make the call...

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]I have a friend who knows someone important on the Pro Bowl Selection Committee, and this is the REAL reason Sean Taylor didn't get selected:

They wanted to pick him over Roy "Horse Collar" Williams, but the Pro Bowl game conflicted with his court date.



Don't mean to player-hate (literally) on ST, but I do think that off season rediculousness is justification for not making the roster, despite how well he played all season. If he can put together a full season w/o involving the police and show he can be a solid "cetizen" and role model - then he'll be ready to represent the NFL in the Pro Bowl.[/QUOTE]
Wrong charlie!!!
One Koren Robinson is on the team in the same season he came back from a drug suspension and rehab. That thought contrdicts the thought that he wasn't character enough. He got left off because he doesn't play the media game so he doesn't get the media props he deserves.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]If he can put together a full season w/o involving the police and show he can be a solid "cetizen" and role model - then he'll be ready to represent the NFL in the Pro Bowl.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh... so that explains why other players who have had legal troubles(Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Randy Moss, Michael Irvin, etc.) never made a Pro Bowl after their legal problems. Crap, wait a minute... :laughing2

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Wrong charlie!!!
One Koren Robinson is on the team in the same season he came back from a drug suspension and rehab. That thought contrdicts the thought that he wasn't character enough. He got left off because he doesn't play the media game so he doesn't get the media props he deserves.[/QUOTE]

interesting.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Wrong charlie!!!
One Koren Robinson is on the team in the same season he came back from a drug suspension and rehab. That thought contrdicts the thought that he wasn't character enough. He got left off because he doesn't play the media game so he doesn't get the media props he deserves.[/QUOTE]


Don't read too much into it, dude - I simply don't want any gangstas representing MY Redskins in the Pro Bowl, despite their talent. I want guys like Daryl Green, Art Monk, Clinton Portis (aka class acts) representing us. Guys like Santana Moss, who have turned it around on and off the field - I'm all for that! To me, it doesn't matter how many guys we send; it's quality not quantity.

I understand that the Pro Bowl Selection Committe doesn't give a purple poop about character or offseason gunfights. I guess that even though I'm a HUGE fan of ST (on the field), I'm still very, very disappointed in how he handled himself off the field. It's not forgotten. ST got some room for improvement yet!

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

Also, everyone always gets in a tizzy after the list comes out, but there's a lot more reasons to NOT have Redskins on the team:

1) They could get hurt
2) A lot of the players have pay incentives if they make the Pro Bowl. This means less room in the cap to bring in that stud DE everyone keeps jacking about.
3) It gives them a reason to work harder next year

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]Also, everyone always gets in a tizzy after the list comes out, but there's a lot more reasons to NOT have Redskins on the team:

1) They could get hurt
2) A lot of the players have pay incentives if they make the Pro Bowl. This means less room in the cap to bring in that stud DE everyone keeps jacking about.
3) It gives them a reason to work harder next year[/QUOTE]

Do incentives like that count against the cap?

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]2) A lot of the players have pay incentives if they make the Pro Bowl. This means less room in the cap to bring in that stud DE everyone keeps jacking about.[/QUOTE]

Generally, incentives don't count against the cap. They just take money out of the owners pocket.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]Don't read too much into it, dude - I simply don't want any gangstas representing MY Redskins in the Pro Bowl, despite their talent. I want guys like Daryl Green, Art Monk, Clinton Portis (aka class acts) representing us. Guys like Santana Moss, who have turned it around on and off the field - I'm all for that! To me, it doesn't matter how many guys we send; it's quality not quantity.

I understand that the Pro Bowl Selection Committe doesn't give a purple poop about character or offseason gunfights. I guess that even though I'm a HUGE fan of ST (on the field), I'm still very, very disappointed in how he handled himself off the field. It's not forgotten. ST got some room for improvement yet![/QUOTE]

I really don't want to start this discussion again, but what makes you think Sean Taylor is a gangsta.

He wasn't convicted of anything yet.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]I posted this in another thread, but it's valid here too.

Atlanta with Vick as the starter: 33-21-1 (61.1 win%)
Atlanta without Vick as the starter: 9-18 (33.3 win%)[/QUOTE]




i was talking about vick giving the nfc probowl team the best chance to win, not the atlanta falcons.:smashfrea

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Generally, incentives don't count against the cap. They just take money out of the owners pocket.[/QUOTE]

I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine that increases one's base salary as well.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I really don't want to start this discussion again, but what makes you think Sean Taylor is a gangsta.

He wasn't convicted of anything yet.[/QUOTE]


Why would he put himself in that kind of situation?? Agreed he's not been convicted, but if you think he made "role model" decisions that night, we need to talk...


WWAMD?
What Would Art Monk Do?

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]The Pro Bowl is a game that plays to a very empty house. The ratings on TV are only slightly better than for a Ron Popeil infomercial on his new invention - the water soluble life raft.

Essentially, no one gives a rat's ass about this game.

Yet, every year, people get excited about who will go to play in this game that no one cares about and who was wrongfully excluded from playing in this game that no one cares about. I just don't get that.

Sean Taylor had a much better year than Roy Williams did this year. And remember, I'm the guy who thinks Sean Taylor is an unredeemed M E A T H E A D.

Mark Brunell has had a better year than Michael Vick.

Markus Washington deserves some kind of recognition for his play this year - - although I can't find a lot of fault with the OLBs picked for the NFC squad.[/QUOTE]

You are right to a certain extent.

I have personally attended 8 Pro Bowls. The game is always sold out, and what the league looses in TV viewing is made up for in merchandising and week long player events. The networks take the loss on the viewing part, since they are the ones paying the NFL. NFL gets thier money whether people watch or not.

For me what was more fun than the game, was attending all of the player events during the week leading up tp the game, like the rookie sand flag football game, media day and of course fan day. They have a few golf tourneys too for charity. You pay an outlandish donation and get a round of golf with a pro-bowl player.

But of course, but they league puts so many rules on the play that it can hardly be called an exhibition game.

They are only allowed to run certain defenses, and certain type of blitz's etc. The primary reason being to reduce injuries.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine that increases one's base salary as well.[/QUOTE]

To be a little more specific, incentives that are not LTBE(likely to be earned) do not count against the cap. Since Taylor has never made a Pro Bowl, that would be a non LTBE incentive, and not count against the cap.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Yes, the fans, coaches, and media all agree that he could use an additional game and coaching each year to try to improve his coverage skills.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I know his trashing one of my players but this is some funny shit :lol:

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]U know damm well Taylor should be going over his weak ass[/QUOTE]

they only took 1 FS to the PB from the nfc and Sharper had a much better year than ST you can't argue that 1 tell me wath other SS played better than Roy Mike Brown had a better year but he played in a better defense.

In my point of view you got screwed with Washington I've said it a lot of times he's your best Def player.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]The real question Mr. Sandtrap is were there any Free Safites that got in. There is a flaw in the system when you have just strong safties make it. Hey just remember those 2 TD's in September against your All Pro. Boy guess they did not consider that game.[/QUOTE]

CTR3 Correction the best 3 safeties go to the PB and at least 1 of each position it so happen that this year from the NFC 2 SS and 1FS got picked and from the AFC 2 FS and 1SS got in so man do some research before you post

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

NLtbE incentives i believe DO count against the cap the year after they're earned... I don't think there's any free money allowed in the cap structure.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]To be a little more specific, incentives that are not LTBE(likely to be earned) do not count against the cap. Since Taylor has never made a Pro Bowl, that would be a non LTBE incentive, and not count against the cap.[/QUOTE]

Money made in incentives do count against cap as bonus money, otherwise every owner and their mother would be dishing out incentives to keep good players. I mean can you imagine ab incentive like get "1 INT" for top caliber CB?

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]By your logic, it also makes sense that Williams gets more tackles(horse collars, in Roy's case) than Taylor, since strong safeties generally play the run first, and the pass second, while free safeties play the pass first, and the run second. Williams does play the run very well, but he also bites on play action more than anyone in the league. He also appears to have learned pass coverage from a block of swiss cheese.[/QUOTE]

So by YOUR LOGIC, since Taylor is a FS he should have more INT's than Williams, but that is not the case either.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

wait, how can ANYBODY be spouting off Roy Williams's merits here after he was so thoroughly embarassed on national TV in week2. last week wasn't so hot for him either.

it's like when you guys started spouting off about Whitten...hey you guys prolly know our TE by now right?

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

Dont you dallas guys see that Roy Williams is to blame for your deffense's demise? I mean ever since week 2 when we exposed him he gets burned by any team that has a speedy WR. Watch what happens this weekend when Steve Smith goes blazing by him for another TD...

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]Why would he put himself in that kind of situation?? Agreed he's not been convicted, but if you think he made "role model" decisions that night, we need to talk...


WWAMD?
What Would Art Monk Do?[/QUOTE]

Well, there have been times when I haven't made role model decisions. In fact, I could probably share some shocking things about my past, yet if you met me in person you'd think I was pretty cool dude.

All I am saying is, I think we use the word "thug" and "gangsta" very loosely. Especially when we really don't know the person for ourselves. I think if there's a consistent pattern of the same behaviour, then perhaps one could be called a gangsta or whatever. I'm in no way excusing or defending what appears to have happened with Sean this summer. But one incident hardly qualifies, in my mind, Sean Taylor or anyone else as a gangsta.

But then again, maybe we have two totally different definitions of a gangsta.

Bottom line, I think we both love Sean playing for our team and want him here for as long as he can stay.

I'm pretty confident he'll represent the Redskins in many Pro-Bowls and do it with class.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Well, there have been times when I haven't made role model decisions. In fact, I could probably share some shocking things about my past, yet if you met me in person you'd think I was pretty cool dude.

All I am saying is, I think we use the word "thug" and "gangsta" very loosely. Especially when we really don't know the person for ourselves. I think if there's a consistent pattern of the same behaviour, then perhaps one could be called a gangsta or whatever. I'm in no way excusing or defending what appears to have happened with Sean this summer. But one incident hardly qualifies, in my mind, Sean Taylor or anyone else as a gangsta.

But then again, maybe we have two totally different definitions of a gangsta.

Bottom line, I think we both love Sean playing for our team and want him here for as long as he can stay.

I'm pretty confident he'll represent the Redskins in many Pro-Bowls and do it with class.[/QUOTE]

Here! Here! (or is it Hear! Hear!?) - can't argue with any of that - well said numero 12. :headbange

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]Here! Here! (or is it Hear! Hear!?) - can't argue with any of that - well said numero 12. :headbange[/QUOTE]

My man!

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

It is clear that whoever started this thread is aware that Sean Taylor is a much better player than Roy Williams or else he wouldn't have pointed this out.

If I were a Cowboys fan I wouldn't be a fan of Roy Williams because he plays for the Redskins. Oops, I thought he was trying to block for Santana because it doesn't look like he was trying to cover him.
[img]http://www.redskins.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/OHJFKNLBLFGG/55726348PG.jpg[/img]
[b]You idiot, he's the reason that we swept you'll![/b]

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]NLtbE incentives i believe DO count against the cap the year after they're earned... I don't think there's any free money allowed in the cap structure.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=saden1]Money made in incentives do count against cap as bonus money, otherwise every owner and their mother would be dishing out incentives to keep good players. I mean can you imagine ab incentive like get "1 INT" for top caliber CB?[/QUOTE]

From Al Lackner, Senior Editor and cap specialist at askthecommish.com, on LTBE and NLTBE incentives.

[QUOTE]An impartial arbitrator will hear disputes between the owners and the players concerning what should be considered LTBE (especially for rookies or veterans who did not play in the prior year). [b]Conversely, if a player did not reach the performance incentive in the previous year, the incentive is deemed "not likely to be earned" (NLTBE) and is not included in team salary.[/b][/QUOTE]

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack]So by YOUR LOGIC, since Taylor is a FS he should have more INT's than Williams, but that is not the case either.[/QUOTE]

That's partially because when Taylor is in pass defense, he'd actually rather decleat the receiver, and not just sit back and cherry pick, or wait for them to run by so he can horse collar them like Williams does. And for every route that Roy Williams jumps to make a pick, the other nine times out of ten, he judges it poorly and gets torched for long gains or scores.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack]OOps my mistake, it is Roy Williams representing the NFC in Honolulu, again, for the 3rd time in 4 years as a pro.[/QUOTE]

Well if this is all you have to hang your hat on enjoy! As for Taylor he had a so so season as did over rated Williams!

PS big guy Moss on the other is having a great year and it all started with Williams so I hope he send him a Xmas card!!!! :laughing2 :laughing2 :laughing2 :laughing2 :laughing2 :woot: :woot: :woot: :laughing2 :headbange :laughing2 :woot: :woot: :headbange :lol: :lol: :)

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club]Why would he put himself in that kind of situation?? Agreed he's not been convicted, but if you think he made "role model" decisions that night, we need to talk...


WWAMD?
What Would Art Monk Do?[/QUOTE]


Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

AJFC, I believe you have hit upon the real reason why S. Taylor isn't in the PB this year!

Voters must have remembered that off-season incident, and voted for someone else without looking at his on-the-field actions!

:happybday Jesus! :happybday Jesus!

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

Ask Terry Glenn who is better. He'll probably lie and say Roy Williams, but he'll flinch when you mention the name Sean Taylor.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]Ask Terry Glenn who is better. He'll probably lie and say Roy Williams, but he'll flinch when you mention the name Sean Taylor.[/QUOTE]





:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ....thats funny.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]From Al Lackner, Senior Editor and cap specialist at askthecommish.com, on LTBE and NLTBE incentives.

An impartial arbitrator will hear disputes between the owners and the players concerning what should be considered LTBE (especially for rookies or veterans who did not play in the prior year). [b]Conversely, if a player did not reach the performance incentive in the previous year, the incentive is deemed "not likely to be earned" (NLTBE) and is not included in team salary.[/b][/QUOTE]

yeah, but if the player DOES hit those NLTBE incentives they count towards the cap the following year i do believe, or else NLTBE incentives would be all over every contract.

Re: Sean Taylor going to the Pro Bowl!
 

i think it's fitting that the last cowboy helmet we saw on this thread is the one in Santana's wake.