Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=irish;1095080]Spurrier wasnt a joke when he got here but it soon became obvious that his schtick just wasnt going to work in the pros. He had to go.



Shanny made a lot of progress especially in 2012. Then his star QB got hurt and also decided he wasnt "all in" on Shanny's system that had made him so successful in 2012. If RG and the organization had gone "all in" with Shanny I am very sure things wouldnt be as bad as they are now.[/QUOTE]


My bad - I did not mean he was a joke upon arrival. I gotcha now. I meant when he got here, as in his first year. Poor wording on my part. I totally disagree still about Shanny. Its been pointed out recently that Shanny did not develop RG-3 at all, he just put a system around him that he was capable of running. However not for the long term - defenses were going to learn to stop it the same way they have with kapernick and wilson at this point. Also due to the physical risks it would not have worked long term with Griff. Hell it didnt even work for one season physically that is.
Edit: when I said i dont remember anybody thinking we should keep him around i meant after year one, not after game one - again poor wording on my part.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=irish;1095082]It surprised everyone. IMO, the top management of this organization isnt conducive to anyone having long term success.[/quote]

I was around the Redskins almost every day from 1998 through 2002, so for 5 seasons.

In my opinion, the franchise did Marty wrong. Marty was a colossal pain in the ass, no question about it. And ownership then had a huge ego that head butted constantly with Marty. But, off of Norv, the franchise needed a colossal pain in the ass. Marty could have been like Coughlin here. Hated, yet begrudgingly respected with success to justify his stay.

Spurrier on the other hand was given every opportunity and he repeatedly ignored those opportunities. It was a lot of fun when Spurrier was around, too fun

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1095084]I was around the Redskins almost every day from 1998 through 2002, so for 5 seasons.



In my opinion, the franchise did Marty wrong. Marty was a colossal pain in the ass, no question about it. And ownership then had a huge ego that head butted constantly with Marty. But, off of Norv, the franchise needed a colossal pain in the ass. Marty could have been like Coughlin here. Hated, yet begrudgingly respected with success to justify his stay.



Spurrier on the other hand was given every opportunity and he repeatedly ignored those opportunities. It was a lot of fun when Spurrier was around, too fun[/QUOTE]


Did Martys track record in the playoffs play a part in his being shown the door? I mean that was always the knock on Marty.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095085]Did Martys track record in the playoffs play a part in his being shown the door? I mean that was always the knock on Marty.[/quote]

No, not at all. It was primarily two things

1) Fred Drasner didn't like him, and Drasner made Snyder look like the most patient man in the world. Schottenheimer "disrespected" Drasner during training camp and at the point Drasner had already decided he was 1 and done. And Snyder listened a lot to Drasner in those days

2) Marty didn't even attempt to make Snyder feel involved, even if it's a token gesture he should have

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095083]My bad - I did not mean he was a joke upon arrival. I gotcha now. I meant when he got here, as in his first year. Poor wording on my part. I totally disagree still about Shanny. Its been pointed out recently that Shanny did not develop RG-3 at all, he just put a system around him that he was capable of running. However not for the long term - defenses were going to learn to stop it the same way they have with kapernick and wilson at this point. Also due to the physical risks it would not have worked long term with Griff. Hell it didnt even work for one season physically that is.[/quote]

I think Shanny saw from the beginning that RG is never going to be a pocket passer so there was no point in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Shanny developed a system that worked and who knows how he would have modified it to stay ahead of the defense. I have read some articles that suggested Shanny did not want to draft RG but, as seems to happen too ofter in this organization, was over-ruled by the owner.

IMO Gruden got this job on the premise that he would develop RG into a pocket passer but I think Gruden now realizes how far away RG is from that goal. So now Gruden is in the tough place of having to get the team winning and keep 51 players happy while he works on the Herculean task of re-tooling RG's QBing. I'm not sure Skins ownership or fans will be patient enough to see if this project pans out.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1095086]No, not at all. It was primarily two things

1) Fred Drasner didn't like him, and Drasner made Snyder look like the most patient man in the world. Schottenheimer "disrespected" Drasner during training camp and at the point Drasner had already decided he was 1 and done. And Snyder listened a lot to Drasner in those days

2) Marty didn't even attempt to make Snyder feel involved, even if it's a token gesture he should have[/quote]

2 great posts Smoot. Thanks for the insight.

No doubt Marty was a huge PITA but that definitely was no secret so when you hire him you know you are hiring a PITA.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1095086]No, not at all. It was primarily two things



1) Fred Drasner didn't like him, and Drasner made Snyder look like the most patient man in the world. Schottenheimer "disrespected" Drasner during training camp and at the point Drasner had already decided he was 1 and done. And Snyder listened a lot to Drasner in those days



2) Marty didn't even attempt to make Snyder feel involved, even if it's a token gesture he should have[/QUOTE]


Thanks SS.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1095076]surprised me because spurrier did well at duke, florida, and the usfl.[/quote]

weurrfeil and matthews were our QBs back then .. who was the other noodle armed dude we ran out under center? banks?

bad times but spurrier gave us Okinawa.

thanks for the insight SS.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

It is noteworthy, however, that Spurried never coached another NFL team or, to my knowledge, was ever considered for such a spot. It's the pinnacle of coaching, but I think even he realized that staying a college coach -- good money, no salary cap, all kinds of creative recruiting opportunities -- would allow for him to be successful and stay put. And he has.

But he was not a good coach of the Redskins. Marty was. Starting 0-5 and finishing 8-8 with the talent on that team was an achievement, and we'll never know what he could have done in year 2. I thought part of the issue was Marty's desire to have say over the roster and that Snyder wouldn't allow for that. But it has admittedly been quite a while.

I hope Gruden is given a chance. The only other coach I would want right now that isn't already tied up with another gig is Cowher. That'd be awesome. But Gruden should be given a fair shot to succeed, and that's on the order of 3 seasons, I think. He did inherit a 3-13 team, after all, and while many thought last year's team underachieved, this year's record and quality of play suggests that it did not.

What's frustrating is that I, for one, thought we would be appreciably better this year. If you look at the various parts of the team, we mostly got better or stayed the same (not taking injuries into account):

QB: same (or worse, if one considers RGIII not developing)
WR: better -- thanks DJax
O-line: same (and still not good)
RB: same
TE: same

Dline: better -- Hatcher (although the Cofield injury hurt)
LBs: better -- Robinson is an upgrade, everyone else the same (debatable about the impact of Orakpo's injury)
S: same/worse -- R. Clark has not been an improvement from what I can tell
CBs: same (again, not taking DHall's injury into account)

P: better
K: same
KR: better
PR: better

One would hope that this translates into more Ws.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

When Spurrier resigned part of the agreement was that he couldn't coach in the NFL for the next 3 years

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1095103]weurrfeil and matthews were our QBs back then .. who was the other noodle armed dude we ran out under center? banks?



bad times but spurrier gave us Okinawa.



thanks for the insight SS.[/QUOTE]


Osaka. Lol. I think the marines gave us okinawa.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Don't know if Marty would have been the savior, but he was better than much of the circus that followed, except Gibbs, and even JG had his issues. Still, Marty couldn't get over the hump in San Diego either. Whatever--water far under the bridge, I'm afraid.

Stability. For that reason alone, I do hope Gruden gets to stay and to make some tangible progress. Hard to do if RGIII is a bust, but that's the hand he's been dealt, maybe. I don't think we should underestimate the impact of the cap penalty right on top of the RGIII trade. Hard to get better with one hand tied behind your back. And that's what happened. I'm not giving Allen a freebie here, but that shit hurt.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1095117]When Spurrier resigned part of the agreement was that he couldn't coach in the NFL for the next 3 years[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. Any idea why that was part of the agreement? Was he interested in doing so?

As I recall, he was so obviously out of his league (literally) by the end of his tenure here that he was being universally held out as the example of why not to hire a college coach.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1095012]What you describe is not dysfunctional. It is standard management practice in countless businesses. Gruden has bosses and he is obligated implement the instructions of those bosses.

What we have here is Round 105 of discussing what we think the management structure of the Redskins ought to be. If we have a HC who has complete authority (Shanahan) then we argue that there ought to be a GM over him. If we have a HC reporting to a GM (Gruden) then we argue that the GM shouldn't tell the HC what to do.[/quote]

We can agree to disagree, but this is football not Business school. I'd rather my head coach\staff pick the starting lineup and who should be on the field. That is basic leadership 101.
You let the professional people with skills you hired do their jobs.
Allen and Snyder are not professional coaches.
There is a reason they call it meddling owner and people frown on it; and Snyder and Jerry Jones are generally not liked. I am being nice.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;1095135]We can agree to disagree, but this is football not Business school. I'd rather my head coach\staff pick the starting lineup and who should be on the field. That is basic leadership 101.
You let the professional people with skills you hired do their jobs.
Allen and Snyder are not professional coaches.
There is a reason they call it meddling owner and people frown on it; and Snyder and Jerry Jones are generally not liked. I am being nice.[/QUOTE]
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