Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1164530]I agree. This is a guy who admires Lenin and quite frankly is pattern his tactics after him.

[url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html]Steve Bannon, Trump’s Top Guy, Told Me He Was ‘a Leninist’ - The Daily Beast[/url]

When you hear comments like "the media should keep its mouth shut" is when you know the threat is real. People wanted to talk about how Obama was some secret agent muslim terrorist sent to tear down America, but here we actually have a guy on the national security trying to do just that.



I agree with free trade in principle, but the problem with that is it's going to just further expedite the manufacturing jobs to outside the country. We agree totally with the automation thing, and it's a huge reason why a basic income has being discussed in Congress.

[YT]OX06f3DPXt4[/YT]



I can easily talk about Trump and I will point out the good things he does when he does them. However, must Trump supporters have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the shitty moves or justify them with bullshit excuses. Take for instance some of his cabinet choices.

[U][B]James Mattis[/B][/U]- Great choice
[B][U]Betsy DeVos[/U][/B]- Insane choice
[B][U]Nikki Haley[/U][/B]- great choice
[B][U]Ben Carson[/U][/B]- good choice but wrong area. Should be health service or surgeon general, not an area he has no experience.
[U][B]Tillerson[/B][/U]- awful choice with too many ties to Russia affairs

This is being unbiased. If you can't see why some of the cabinet choices are bad (or decisions) then there isn't much help. It's why people continue to treat politics like their favorite sports team. No matter how dumb the decisions the team makes, you will continue waving that flag supporting them week after week.[/quote]

Good post NC, I agree with a lot of it, mostly your cabinet picks lineup. Seeing as how I know nothing about free trade and have no idea how to compensate for losing jobs to automation, I will stay out of that one. After being hesitant about his SC nominee I have warmed up to that one too, after all it is important to have a neutral judge to balance out the right and left on the bench. I was moreso mad about Congress' unwillingness to at least consider Obama's nominee.

And I totally agree on Bannon, I think people really aren't as upset about that as they should be. Removing the Joint Chiefs makes no sense and replacing it with one of your yes men makes even less sense. The power of the NSC should not be taken lightly.

Re: What would it take?
 

just adding this about LW.

9% of the population makes over $100K/yr [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#cite_note-CPS_2015-2"]according to this link[/URL]

Assuming that the LW was only given to US Citizens making under $100k per year, the yearly outlay for LW payments is roughly 4.4 trillion dollars.

Reducing it to only people making under $50k would still be 3.5 trillion dollars ($20K * 176Million people)

The US GDP for 2016 was $18trillion.
[URL="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/total_2016USrt_18rs5n"]Federal Gross Spending[/URL] was $3.9 trillion dollars

Government Pensions $1.3 trillion
[B]Government Health Care + $1.5 trillion
Government Education + $1.0 trillion [/B]
National Defense + $0.8 trillion
[B]Government Welfare + $0.5 trillion [/B]
All Other Spending + $1.6 trillion
Total Government Spending $6.7 trillion

So theoretically if we got rid of the myriad of welfare/education/healthcare governmental entities, and rolled it one lump sum governmental LW block grant to the states, we would go from $3Trillion, to $3.5Trillion.

Could you imagine the shift of power that would create politically

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1164572]just adding this about LW.

9% of the population makes over $100K/yr [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#cite_note-CPS_2015-2"]according to this link[/URL]

Assuming that the LW was only given to US Citizens making under $100k per year, the yearly outlay for LW payments is roughly 4.4 trillion dollars.

Reducing it to only people making under $50k would still be 3.5 trillion dollars ($20K * 176Million people)

The US GDP for 2016 was $18trillion.
[URL="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/total_2016USrt_18rs5n"]Federal Gross Spending[/URL] was $3.9 trillion dollars

Government Pensions $1.3 trillion
[B]Government Health Care + $1.5 trillion
Government Education + $1.0 trillion [/B]
National Defense + $0.8 trillion
[B]Government Welfare + $0.5 trillion [/B]
All Other Spending + $1.6 trillion
Total Government Spending $6.7 trillion

So theoretically if we got rid of the myriad of welfare/education/healthcare governmental entities, and rolled it one lump sum governmental LW block grant to the states, we would go from $3Trillion, to $3.5Trillion.

Could you imagine the shift of power that would create politically[/quote]

You'd still have to provide the healthcare on top of living wage. $20K per year gets you bare essentials like shelter and food, but not healthcare. Those folks would still need Medical Assistance.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1164574]You'd still have to provide the healthcare on top of living wage. $20K per year gets you bare essentials like shelter and food, but not healthcare. Those folks would still need Medical Assistance.[/quote]

There would have to be a way to create a real LW wage number. I used 20K for ease of numbers, but yes LW would need to include shelter, food, and very basic healthcare entitlement.

The point of the LW is that you have basic security needs met (the bottom of the pyramid), but you are still working. Currently nearly 50% of the US population makes under $25K(same link as before). If minimum wage were reset to $4/hour and still assuming a $20K LW then every person in the US working a 40hr job would make $27.5K (with the tax scheme i made up). And a person making $10/hour would make nearly $40K.

LW for 1 person $800/mo rent, $400/mo food, $400/mo basic healthcare =$1600/month or 19,200 per year,
so 2 adults together, would have 1600/mo rent, 800/month food 800/mo basic healthcare

again, theory is simple, and talking in a forum blog is even simpler. The deepest fact is that politicians would never give up all the power they have by controlling the purse strings.

One thing I would add is that as a back check, in order to be given your 2017 LW you must provide proof that you used some or all of your 2016 LW to provide you with stable residence, and healthcare. I would think rental receipts and insurance payment stubs would do that but of course the devil is always in the details.

Re: What would it take?
 

I think we should take this time for a moment of silence for all those lives lost at Bowling Green. A go fund has been started for all the families affected by this tragedy. #NeverForget

[url]https://www.bowlinggreenmassacrefund.com/[/url]

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1164593]I think we should take this time for a moment of silence for all those lives lost at Bowling Green. A go fund has been started for all the families affected by this tragedy. #NeverForget



[url]https://www.bowlinggreenmassacrefund.com/[/url][/QUOTE]



Best part is her excuse. I meant to say....stfu. You remembered something about bowling green something or the other and a terrorist attack, so you bring up the bowling green massacre. Wow. I thought the confusion about Frederick Douglass was bad but this takes the cake for this weeks show folks. Stay tuned for more amateur hour at the Apollo! As much as I enjoy the "entertainment", it's pretty God damned scary that these people are in charge of our country.
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170203/7eccfdcea67fe42ccc502156d83c6855.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What would it take?
 

DAMN those" alternative facts"!!!:laughing-

Re: What would it take?
 

[URL="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/02/03/rel2a.-.trump.pdf"]CNN/ORC poll
[/URL]
How well are things going in the country today -- (very well, fairly well), (pretty badly or very badly)?

results from the poll the year after election
2017 Jan 31 - Feb 2, 46% 53% Obama --> Trump
2013 Jan 14-15, 49% 51% Obama --> Obama
2009 Feb 18-19 21% 79% Bush --> Obama
2005 Jan 7-9 58 41 Bush-->Bush
2001 Feb 7-8 71 28 Clinton -->Bush

I can't imagine the country being at 71% positive anymore.

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1164616][URL="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/02/03/rel2a.-.trump.pdf"]CNN/ORC poll

[/URL]

How well are things going in the country today -- (very well, fairly well), (pretty badly or very badly)?



results from the poll the year after election

2017 Jan 31 - Feb 2, 46% 53% Obama --> Trump

2013 Jan 14-15, 49% 51% Obama --> Obama

2009 Feb 18-19 21% 79% Bush --> Obama

2005 Jan 7-9 58 41 Bush-->Bush

2001 Feb 7-8 71 28 Clinton -->Bush



I can't imagine the country being at 71% positive anymore.[/QUOTE]



R u reading that as the incumbent has something to do with those numbers so quickly or a result of the past potus? It appears as if Trump has raised the spirits of the voters the way that is laid out.

Re: What would it take?
 

I can't argue with much of what Uncle Bernie says [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/news/at-gathering-on-politics-of-love-sanders-warns-trump-could-start-a-war-201026254.html"]here[/URL]:

[QUOTE]
...
And yet, he said, being in the majority is not enough. “Let me suggest to you, and some will disagree with me, that’s OK too. Let me suggest to you that what happened on November 8th, Trump’s victory, was not a victory for Trump or his ideology. It was a gross political failure of the Democratic Party.”

This won Sanders a partial standing ovation.

“Some people may disagree with me, but if you think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist or a sexist or a homophobe, you would be dead wrong,” Sanders said. Instead, he said, what happened is that “hardworking decent people” had a lot of questions about their lives, about long hours and poor wages and their declining standard of living and school debt and Wall Street destroying the economy.

“So Trump comes along, and Trump is, among many other qualities, a pathological liar. So bad that he practically has no ideology at all. Tomorrow he may come out for a single health care payer program, I don’t know. He doesn’t believe in anything. It’s just what sounds right at the moment,” Sanders said.

But what Trump did do, “if you listen carefully to what he said, he said, ‘I, Donald Trump, I’m going to take on the establishment,’” Sanders said.

He won because “there are people in this country who are hurting, and they are hurting terribly,” Sanders said. “And for years they looked to the Democratic Party, which at one time was the party of working people. And they looked and they looked and they looked and they got nothing in return, and out of desperation they turned to Mr. Trump.”

“All over this country there are people who are hurting, and our job is to communicate and talk to and stand up and fight with those people for a government that listens to them,” he said.

“It is always easy to come to beautiful conferences like this, where we look to our friends over here, friends over there, and we’re all in basic agreement,” he counseled. “It is a hell of a lot harder to start talking to people who have a worldview very different than yours. But that is exactly what we have to do.”

...

Sanders encouraged conference attendees to run for office, especially school boards, city councils and state legislatures. “To people who don’t have confidence to run for office … I’m a member of the Senate. You should see some of the Senate. If you have any doubt about your ability to run for office, turn on C-SPAN,” he joked.[/QUOTE]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=punch it in;1164617]R u reading that as the incumbent has something to do with those numbers so quickly or a result of the past potus? It appears as if Trump has raised the spirits of the voters the way that is laid out.[/quote]

no, sorry I hate tables.

Thats the total positive and total negative in the country as close to the inauguration (but not before it) each time.
So in this year's case the country right now is at a 46 positive or very positive and 53 negative or very negative.

When Pres Obama took over from Pres Bush at the same time frame, the country was 21 positive, and 79 negative, and through his two terms he did bring it up and it has hovered around 50/50 through the last 8 years.

But after Clinton's 2 terms leading into Bush's first term, the country was 71% positive - those are days I miss, when not every story was a negative bashing the other side relentlessy.

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1164620]no, sorry I hate tables.



Thats the total positive and total negative in the country as close to the inauguration (but not before it) each time.

So in this year's case the country right now is at a 46 positive or very positive and 53 negative or very negative.



When Pres Obama took over from Pres Bush at the same time frame, the country was 21 positive, and 79 negative, and through his two terms he did bring it up and it has hovered around 50/50 through the last 8 years.



But after Clinton's 2 terms leading into Bush's first term, the country was 71% positive - those are days I miss, when not every story was a negative bashing the other side relentlessy.[/QUOTE]



Trump is a lightning rod, and he wants to be. For whatever reason. This time is different on every level. The bashing is no coincidence. His backers have his back at any cost, and his doubters look for every reason to doubt. Both sides need to take a deep breath and step back. However every time you think things are settling down he does something cra cra. Its like he craves the madness. I don't get it.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1164401]So you agree. The media should wait for the facts, that's all Im asking.

The media is so corrupt that dumb people believe this stuff.[/quote]


Just stop with the 'corrupt media BS",please you're smarter than that.
What facts exactly is it you want,tell me?Is it Kellyanne "alternative facts" or is the facts Donald Trump makes up in his head anytime something doesn't go his way.The media's job is to call out the politicians keep them honest ,Trumps screams fake news and you fall all over it ,Trump is a liar fact ,he's a thief ,fact and from what he has been doing the last two weeks he is a moron fact.
I asked before I will ask again....what media will you accept as factual,TV, print, radio....internet,what?
When it comes to us it is up to us to dissect what we are absorbing and use common sense ,now many Americans can't do that ...no argument but it doesn't make it "fake news".Tell me you honestly believed the story about Hillary and the kiddie porn in the pizza place?That was fake news and 95% of the public knew it.How many people are picking the Patriots and how many the Falcons,one will win.If I say the Patriots and the Falcons win is it fake news or was I wrong in my estimation?Chico I get it you like Trump and you know I don't but this fake news shit ,I really have more respect for you than that.No BS.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1164619]I can't argue with much of what Uncle Bernie says [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/news/at-gathering-on-politics-of-love-sanders-warns-trump-could-start-a-war-201026254.html"]here[/URL]:[/quote]

This is a good quote. Thanks for sharing.

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1164620]no, sorry I hate tables.



Thats the total positive and total negative in the country as close to the inauguration (but not before it) each time.

So in this year's case the country right now is at a 46 positive or very positive and 53 negative or very negative.



When Pres Obama took over from Pres Bush at the same time frame, the country was 21 positive, and 79 negative, and through his two terms he did bring it up and it has hovered around 50/50 through the last 8 years.



But after Clinton's 2 terms leading into Bush's first term, the country was 71% positive - those are days I miss, when not every story was a negative bashing the other side relentlessy.[/QUOTE]



Gotcha.
Yeah well Trump and unity are like oil and water. We can stir and stir until our arms fall off but,.....