Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682854]lol yeah it's odd to me too

Like you said, the only thing that changed is the trade actually happened. Perhaps people have had a chance to think about it and when reality sets in they realized it's a good move.

How you can go from JC to McNabb and not like it is beyond me.[/quote]

I'll agree with you mentally he's alot better then JC. He's less mobile then JC right now though. Pick your poison.

Lastly, Why did JC put up similar numbers if he's not a good, not as smart, worse OL, bad HC, and a very bad scheme? All I'm saying is take the whole picture in and look at it. Don't simply look at the fact that McNabb will be a HOF. McNabb was a franchise with the Eagles. McNabb used to be mobile. McNabb put up numbers.... but with better situation not that much better then JC for being 10 times better. I just feel we are getting rooked again. We just got snookered by Andy Reid. Jason Taylor ring a bell? I just hope after this year McNabb does not go back to the Eagles.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

At least McNabb has been there, done that. JC hasn't even been able to lead a team to the playoffs yet. Not saying that's totally his fault because it's not. But with Shanahan and McNabb, you have to feel much better about that vs. Zorn and Campbell.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682857]Well they drafted Kolb for a reason and they have a lot of faith in him. They weren't going to give McNabb another contract with a talented 25 year old sitting on the bench. It's a lot like the Packers situation when they traded away Favre in order to finally get Rodgers on the field. They felt it was time to move forward and I think the Eagles felt the same way here.[/quote]


So would you rather have Kolb or McNabb as your opening day starter with the Redskins?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682861]I'll agree with you mentally he's alot better then JC. He's less mobile then JC right now though. Pick your poison.

Lastly, Why did JC put up similar numbers if he's not a good, not as smart, worse OL, bad HC, and a very bad scheme? All I'm saying is take the whole picture in and look at it. Don't simply look at the fact that McNabb will be a HOF. McNabb was a franchise with the Eagles. McNabb used to be mobile. McNabb put up numbers.... but with better situation not that much better then JC for being 10 times better. I just feel we are getting rooked again. We just got snookered by Andy Reid. Jason Taylor ring a bell? I just hope after this year McNabb does not go back to the Eagles.[/quote]:iamwithst

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

Ok,

So I have nearly vented the bad taste of this trade out. Now it's on to what else are you going to do. We still need 2 Tackles, plus depth. We have one pick in the first 2 days. As Bruce Allen said, the offseason doesn't end until Pre-season starts, so I will try to hope that there are plans to fill those gaps with quality players. If they can, then great, but this trade in isolation smells more like OldSkins than a new beginning.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682861]I'll agree with you mentally he's alot better then JC. He's less mobile then JC right now though. Pick your poison.

Lastly, Why did JC put up similar numbers if he's not a good, not as smart, worse OL, bad HC, and a very bad scheme? All I'm saying is take the whole picture in and look at it. Don't simply look at the fact that McNabb will be a HOF. McNabb was a franchise with the Eagles. McNabb used to be mobile. McNabb put up numbers.... but with better situation not that much better then JC for being 10 times better. I just feel we are getting rooked again. We just got snookered by Andy Reid. Jason Taylor ring a bell? I just hope after this year McNabb does not go back to the Eagles.[/quote]

Last year JC played 16 games, DM played 14. So if you projected out DM's numbers to 16 games we're talking about him throwing for 4060 yards and 25 TDs. The numbers aren't so comparable then.

DM's QB rating was also much higher.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=mredskins;682863]So would you rather have Kolb or McNabb as your opening day starter with the Redskins?[/quote]

I guess I'd prefer Kolb. LOL. Young, healthy, and would be starting for years to come in order to build and grow into the scheme we are planning to use.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682861]I'll agree with you mentally he's alot better then JC. He's less mobile then JC right now though. Pick your poison.

Lastly, Why did JC put up similar numbers if he's not a good, not as smart, worse OL, bad HC, and a very bad scheme? All I'm saying is take the whole picture in and look at it. Don't simply look at the fact that McNabb will be a HOF. McNabb was a franchise with the Eagles. McNabb used to be mobile. McNabb put up numbers.... but with better situation not that much better then JC for being 10 times better. I just feel we are getting rooked again. We just got snookered by Andy Reid. Jason Taylor ring a bell? I just hope after this year McNabb does not go back to the Eagles.[/quote]

I think JC is what he is. Simply an average servicable QB that needs everything around him to be working well in order to be successful. McNabb doesn't need that. Plus Jason Taylor was not in the prime of his career and we asked him to play out of position...and QB is a much more important position than DE.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=mredskins;682863]So would you rather have Kolb or McNabb as your opening day starter with the Redskins?[/quote]

That's a good question. I haven't seen as much of Kolb as I have McNabb, and if we're basing this on what we know (career resumes) I would have to take McNabb.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682861]I'll agree with you mentally he's alot better then JC. He's less mobile then JC right now though. Pick your poison[/quote]

But JC is scared to take off and run and he takes to long to pull the trigger. I'll take McNabb

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;682869]I think JC is what he is. Simply an average servicable QB that needs everything around him to be working well in order to be successful. McNabb doesn't need that. Plus Jason Taylor was not in the prime of his career and we asked him to play out of position...and QB is a much more important position than DE.[/quote]

Yeah the comparison to Jason Taylor doesn't make much sense. Two completely different situations.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682862]At least McNabb has been there, done that. JC hasn't even been able to lead a team to the playoffs yet. Not saying that's totally his fault because it's not. But with Shanahan and McNabb, you have to feel much better about that vs. Zorn and Campbell.[/quote]

Right. Been there, done that... but, won't do much else. Any fan of a NFC East team knows McNabb choked when he had the chance to win the SB. PHI fans have even seen enough of what McNabb can do. Why love this move? Why even bring up Zorn? Isn't Campbell better with Shanahan?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682867]Last year JC played 16 games, DM played 14. So if you projected out DM's numbers to 16 games we're talking about him throwing for 4060 yards and 25 TDs. The numbers aren't so comparable then.

DM's QB rating was also much higher.[/quote]

I'm not sure I'd call 5 more TD's a huge difference. Making up numbers is speculation. McNabb plays a good team he might not have gotten the numbers, he plays a bad team he throws up more. But I'll give you the fact that your giving McNabb close to 200 yrds for each game.

Chalk me up to a Skeptic of this move. Hope it works out but would rather have had a Drafted Qb for our future.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;682869]I think JC is what he is. Simply an average servicable QB that needs everything around him to be working well in order to be successful. McNabb doesn't need that. Plus Jason Taylor was not in the prime of his career and we asked him to play out of position...and QB is a much more important position than DE.[/quote]

I'm argueing that McNabb's not in his prime either. After two injury plagued yrs he's not the same QB.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=diehard;682873]Right. Been there, done that... but, won't do much else. Any fan of a NFC East team knows McNabb choked when he had the chance to win the SB. PHI fans have even seen enough of what McNabb can do. Why love this move? Why even bring up Zorn? [B]Isn't Campbell better with Shanahan?[/B][/quote]

Shanahan obviously didn't think so.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682872]Yeah the comparison to Jason Taylor doesn't make much sense. Two completely different situations.[/quote]

How is it completely different? Both were old players. Both we gave up draft picks for. One didn't live up to his resume and went back to a team we gave draft picks for. I just hope it doesn't happen again.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682870]That's a good question. I haven't seen as much of Kolb as I have McNabb, and if we're basing this on what we know (career resumes) I would have to take McNabb.[/quote]


Fair enough and I agree, I would be doing back flips right now if say we were a playoff team last year or a bubble team at least but since we were so bad I don't see how McNabb gets us over the top (over the top to me is playoffs with a decent run in them, not necessarily SB champs).

Here is my one glimmer of hope. that Mike S. and company came in saw this team and realize they can do great stuff if you tweak a few key positions. From what it has sound like from last year it was just a complete mountie. So maybe the skins will have an about face this year. NFL is the best league to go worst to first in.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682877]I'm argueing that McNabb's not in his prime either. After two injury plagued yrs he's not the same QB.[/quote]

You keep harping on the injuries but those 2 injury filled seasons were in 2005 and 2006.

In the 3 seasons since then he's throw for 10,793 yards, 64 TDs, and 28 INTs.

He just posted a 92.9 QB rating last year, the 3rd best single season rating in his career.

Are we talking about the same guy?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682878]Shanahan obviously didn't think so.[/quote]

And no other team is trying to make a move for JC. There were alot of times last year when JC just stunk it up.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682877]I'm argueing that McNabb's not in his prime either. After two injury plagued yrs he's not the same QB.[/quote]

DM isnt in his prime anymore and anyone that watches football knows that. Shanny knows JC doesnt have it and doesnt want to waste time trying so they have decided to move on. It will be interesting to see how many games DM plays without getting hurt but it wont be 16.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682879]How is it completely different? Both were old players. Both we gave up draft picks for. One didn't live up to his resume and went back to a team we gave draft picks for. I just hope it doesn't happen again.[/quote]

Taylor was playing out of position and in a scheme that didn't use him properly.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

If people are comparing JC to McNabb and saying JC is the better option at QB for the Skins, that is absolutly the stupidest thing I have ever read here period. There is no comparison what so ever, that is insane, I dont care what the stats say or what the Philly's scheme says....this was a major upgrade at QB

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Chico23231;682885]If people are comparing JC to McNabb and saying JC is the better option at QB for the Skins, that is absolutly the stupidest thing I have ever read here period. There is no comparison what so ever, that is insane, I dont care what the stats say or what the Philly's scheme says....this was a major upgrade at QB[/quote]

Thats not why I'm comparing JC. I'm not a fan of JC either. What I am comparing is the stats for those stat oriented people. JC's were not that much different then McNabb's and McNabb had a much better situation to work in. We should have just picked up Delhonme, I don't think we would have had to give up the 2nd round pick for a HOF, franchise type QB who knows how to get to the SB.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Chico23231;682885]If people are comparing JC to McNabb and saying JC is the better option at QB for the Skins, that is absolutly the stupidest thing I have ever read here period. There is no comparison what so ever, that is insane, I dont care what the stats say or what the Philly's scheme says....this was a major upgrade at QB[/quote]

This is a major upgrade at QB (anything would be a major upgrade from JC) but I dont see DM lasting more that 2 yrs.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=diehard;682873]Right. Been there, done that... but, won't do much else. Any fan of a NFC East team knows McNabb choked when he had the chance to win the SB. PHI fans have even seen enough of what McNabb can do. Why love this move? [B]Why even bring up Zorn?[/B] Isn't Campbell better with Shanahan?[/quote]

I think what MattyK was trying to say was that the team looks a lot different in 2010.

2009 Redskins = Zorn+Campbell
2010 Redskins = Shanny+McNabb

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682884]Taylor was playing out of position and in a scheme that didn't use him properly.[/quote]

And dont forget that he got hurt before he was really able to get going.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682888]Thats not why I'm comparing JC. I'm not a fan of JC either. What I am comparing is the stats for those stat oriented people. JC's were not that much different then McNabb's and McNabb had a much better situation to work in. [B]We should have just picked up Delhonme,[/B] I don't think we would have had to give up the 2nd round pick for a HOF, franchise type QB who knows how to get to the SB.[/quote]

huh?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/04/05/mcnabb/]Donovan McNabb trade impacts entire NFL, draft - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

Mike and Mike said that we offered up Haynesworth for McNabb. Did any one here of this?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682872]Yeah the comparison to Jason Taylor doesn't make much sense. Two completely different situations.[/quote]

If we only get one good year out of McNabb, the comparison will be richer.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=warpaint;682896]Mike and Mike said that we offered up Haynesworth for McNabb. Did any one here of this?[/quote]

Bad idea there. He may have been less productive last year, but IMO every player and team gets 2 years to adjust to new players before being labeled a bust.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=warpaint;682896]Mike and Mike said that we offered up Haynesworth for McNabb. Did any one here of this?[/quote]

Yep, it's true. Too much money for any team to take on though.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682877]I'm argueing that McNabb's not in his prime either. After two injury plagued yrs he's not the same QB.[/quote]

the injuries are a concern. that would be my only concern though.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;682893]huh?[/quote]

I'm sorry, Delhomme. Better? now that I spelled it correctly. He was released by the Panthers, been to a couple SB's, is just as old, would not have had to give up a draft pick. Does he ring a bell now? We should have picked him up if we wanted a better QB then JC.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=warpaint;682896]Mike and Mike said that we offered up Haynesworth for McNabb. Did any one here of this?[/quote]

The Peter King article says this too.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

I think this is a dumb move. Quarterback is not the issue with this team. Offensive line is. Campbell didn't have time to make any throws last year and our running backs got less then four yards a carry. Its pathetic! Our Offensive line is one of the worst in the league and we get a quarterback? Freakin dumb! Just dumb! This draft class is one of the deepest I've seen for lineman and yet we trade away one of those draft picks for an old man? Its dumb!

Allen, Shanahan, and Haslett have blown up this team. They switch from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 and cut everybody that they could think of. And then get an old man for a quarterback? You only do that if you're team is pretty well set. You only do that if your defense is practically there, if your offensive line is practically there, you have a pretty good receiving corps and some pretty good running backs. Then adding an old salty veteran quarterback is a good thing. Then he'll get you over the hump and get you into the playoffs. Then he'll make your team better. But, now? We don't have any talent to beat anybody!!! Why in the heck would we do this now? Its stupid. We're rebuilding and We traded away two picks which we could use to build our team for an old guy that is not going to do much better :madani: ................................I need a beer!

One thing is for sure though. Danny still runs this team. Not the business side, but the players side. He still runs it. And Vinny does too! :doh:

This deal just reaks of Danny and Vinny working together........................I need to get drunk!

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=irish;682891]And dont forget that he got hurt before he was really able to get going.[/quote]

Well don't count your chickens before they hatch. McNabb has been injured in the past and all we need is a preseason injury and we have an exact replica of Jason Taylor. :)

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682903]I'm sorry, Delhomme. Better? now that I spelled it correctly. He was released by the Panthers, been to a couple SB's, is just as old, would not have had to give up a draft pick. Does he ring a bell now? We should have picked him up if we wanted a better QB then JC.[/quote]

Ok I'm still saying huh... did you see Delhomme the last year and a half? The guy is toast. He threw 18 INTs last year. Would you take him over McNabb??

Even JC is far superior to Delhomme.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

A true comparison of JC and the CURRENT form of DM is not a collection of all McNabb ever did, but a question of what they did with what they worked with. Can McNabb do better with what Campbell had?

Jason's best receiver, Santana. NcNabb's? DeSean Jackson
Advantage to McNabb. His best receiver is younger, faster, and constantly broke away for 40+ yard gains.

#2 and 3 receivers. Jason had Randel el and two revolving knuckleheads who took turns TRYING to step up. Donovan had Jeremy Maclin and Avant.
Advantage McNabb. Those two guys stepped up whenever needed and made plays.

Celek has more yards and touchdowns than Davis and Cooley combined, but Davis dropped a few that Cooley may have taken to the house. i would say that Cooley and Celek are on the same level if Cooley doesn't have to block all the time and can be used in the passing game. We'll call this a tie.

O-Line... Obviously advantage McNabb. Though not the best at run blocking, they pass blocked with the best of them.

HB!? without Portis, Advantage McNabb. People feared Westbrook and planned a whole week around him. Nobody plans for Betts, ha ha ha! (I'm so glad he's gone)

Coaching staff... bwa ha ha ha ha!!! I wonder who gets the advantage there!?! Zorn... really? HA! The man was a worse coach than he was a quarterback, and that is saying a lot since i think 70 or 80% of his seasons he didn't throw more TDs than INTs. Loser. His playcalling was abysmal and his locker presense was about as strong as that of a back-up kicker. Hip Hip Hooray my @$$.

Offense... McNabb was in a system that he had been in for over a decade. It's a version of the west coast that he's used to get to 5 championships... FIVE!!! Jason was using a crappy version that was easily figured out by opposing defenses and was NOT geared toward him or his existing receiving corps. They didn't even utilize the TE fully until Cooley was hurt. And THAT was mainly Jason saying "Screw these guys, i'd rather watch Fred Davis catch a short one than see Kelly drop a long one.
Advantage McNabb

Now with as good of a tight end, a better coach, better receiving core with a younger and faster star receiver, better pass blocking, better running back, in a familiar/better offense with a better coaching staff... How much better did Donovan do?

Not much.

So, if he was here, how many hits could he have taken? Would he have been around for the saints game? He sucked against them with his better team, but no, Todd Collins probably wouldn've played because McNabb would've been injured again. take a look at how many full seasons he's played in the last few years.

Honestly, How much better did Donovan do in his far better situation than Jason? They almost did the SAME!?!?!

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=SBXVII;682907]Well don't count your chickens before they hatch. McNabb has been injured in the past and all we need is a preseason injury and we have an exact replica of Jason Taylor. :)[/quote]

True but any player can get hurt at any time.