Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188703]You believe what you want but guys knew the kind of money he was asking for. Heck percentage of the salary cap was discussed at one point and has been mentioned again. There have been contracts worked while Cousins was here. Heck they made Morgan Moses the 2nd highest paid RT.

If Cousins had wanted be there his team mates would have known it.

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You make it sound like he was a bad teammate and that simply is not true. You give no blame to the front office at all.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

for the right money cousins would still be a redskin. its all part of the allen, snyder shit show. starting to wonder how allen keeps his job?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188736]You make it sound like he was a bad teammate and that simply is not true. You give no blame to the front office at all.[/QUOTE]If they did not see Cousins as the guy then no he did not deserve the money he wanted.

Always chipping you like that at Scot M or Gruden in practice but not putting together in primetime or when it counted.

As union guy myself one thing I do is I spend time researching actual value and trends as well as advantages the company has and lacks as well as changes in the field. The first offer you get is their fantasy. You don't get butt hurt over it.

Cousins could have been a good qb on a great team as the Skins build up their d. But he wants to be paid elite money on team that is mediocre because he does not have cap room to sign other good or great players.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Petty is tagging him and placing him on the practice squad. Tagging him and recovering your draft picks it good business. If it was 10 other team, they would be praised for the idea. Since it’s the skins, they are bashed.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188744]If they did not see Cousins as the guy then no he did not deserve the money he wanted.

Always chipping you like that at Scot M or Gruden in practice but not putting together in primetime or when it counted.

As union guy myself one thing I do is I spend time researching actual value and trends as well as advantages the company has and lacks as well as changes in the field. The first offer you get is their fantasy. You don't get butt hurt over it.

Cousins could have been a good qb on a great team as the Skins build up their d. But he wants to be paid elite money on team that is mediocre because he does not have cap room to sign other good or great players.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]
What? JG is a great player? Do you know what happens if the Skins tag him again ,do you know how much the Skins just paid him...............keep fooling yourself if you think this is all about money.You keep talking about elite,what do Rodgers,Brees, Brady make ? KC didn't ask for elite the Redskin gave it to him free will.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1188756]Petty is tagging him and placing him on the practice squad. Tagging him and recovering your draft picks it good business. If it was 10 other team, they would be praised for the idea. Since it’s the skins, they are bashed.[/QUOTE]I agree it would be good business. .. if successful. But it has been said over and over how risky a move it would be.

And now it appears it is, even theorocally, strictly impossible :

[url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/17/cba-gives-kirk-cousins-an-immediate-path-to-checkmate-if-washington-tags-him-again/[/url]



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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

New England did it to Cassel a few years ago. The precedence has been set. On top of that nugget Cleveland and Denver have already violated the tampering rule.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1188765][B]New England did it to Cassel a few years ago.[/B] The precedence has been set. On top of that nugget Cleveland and Denver have already violated the tampering rule.[/quote]

It was in 2009, so before the new CBA (2011), I think it's a new rule they're talking about.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

They are not using the tag to prevent him from getting paid.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Dan73;1188767]They are not using the tag to prevent him from getting paid.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Dan. From the CBA article 4 section 8b
This is the rule I was thinking about when I said they would be violating the CBA if they tag KC.
[QUOTE]A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is

extended, [B]have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the

Tender compensation level during the upcoming season. [/B] It shall be deemed to be a

violation of this provision if, while the tender is outstanding, a Club insists that such a

player agree to a Player Contract at a compensation level during the upcoming season

below that of the Required Tender amount. The foregoing shall not affect any rights that

a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited

to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if

such termination, renegotiation, or trade is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or

this Agreement.[/QUOTE]

Yes they can try to trade him BUT you can't tag him with the intent to trade him

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188769]Dan. From the CBA article 4 section 8b
This is the rule I was thinking about when I said they would be violating the CBA if they tag KC.


Yes they can try to trade him BUT you can't tag him with the intent to trade him[/QUOTE]If Kirk and his agent made it clear they did not want to stay in Washington, then you can say you wanted too.

I don't think once his agent got into his head he had any interest in being a Redskin.

From reports on things said in practice and players talking about mixed messages Kirk has just been tugging on fans heart strings. Especially playing on those who want to hate Snyder and Allen.

Once this is done I will be happy if I hear about Smith putting in the work with is WRs.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Dan73;1188770]If Kirk and his agent made it clear they did not want to stay in Washington, then you can say you wanted too.

I don't think once his agent got into his head he had any interest in being a Redskin.

From reports on things said in practice and players talking about mixed messages Kirk has just been tugging on fans heart strings. Especially playing on those who want to hate Snyder and Allen.

Once this is done I will be happy if I hear about Smith putting in the work with is WRs.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Once they committed publicly to trading for Alex Smith at a rate(17M + guaranteed money) that would put us over the cap with KC FT any lawyer would be able to say the skins had no intent at the time they imposed the FT to pay him that amount on opening day. What KC says or does or has done has zero relevance to the Skins legal obligation under the CBA

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188771]Once they committed publicly to trading for Alex Smith at a rate(17M + guaranteed money) that would put us over the cap with KC FT any lawyer would be able to say the skins had no intent at the time they imposed the FT to pay him that amount on opening day. What KC says or does or has done has zero relevance to the Skins legal obligation under the CBA[/QUOTE]There is nothing official from the Skins on the trade yet is there?

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1188771]Once they committed publicly to trading for Alex Smith at a rate(17M + guaranteed money) that would put us over the cap with KC FT any lawyer would be able to say the skins had no intent at the time they imposed the FT to pay him that amount on opening day. What KC says or does or has done has zero relevance to the Skins legal obligation under the CBA[/quote]

Yep, I don't get what's so hard to understand:

[quote]when a team applies the franchise tender, the team must intend to employ the player at the amount of the franchise tender for the upcoming season. With [B]Washington already planning to trade for, and to extend the contract of, Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith, there’s no way that Washington intends to employ Cousins at $34.47 million for 2018.[/B]

This portion of the labor deal provides Cousins with a silver bullet to block either the franchise tag or the transition tag, which would require Washington to have a good-faith intent to employ Cousins at $28.7 million. The fact that the window for tagging players closes a week before the start of free agency means that Cousins will have seven days to secure a ruling before the market opens. Given the widespread reports of Washington’s plans to acquire and extend Alex Smith, it shouldn’t take seven minutes for an arbitrator to issue a ruling.[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/17/cba-gives-kirk-cousins-an-immediate-path-to-checkmate-if-washington-tags-him-again/]CBA gives Kirk Cousins an immediate path to checkmate, if Washington tags him again – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Dan73;1188772]There is nothing official from the Skins on the trade yet is there?

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I would doubt it mattered in the legal sense if they did or not because KFuller confirmed he is the player to be traded and AS confirmed he is going to be starting for the Skins.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188774]I would doubt it mattered in the legal sense if they did or not because KFuller confirmed he is the player to be traded and AS confirmed he is going to be starting for the Skins.[/QUOTE]I would still do and have a contract ready to offer exactly the same as was offered to Smith. Then have a trade worked out for March 14th.

Worse thing that happens is either he signs or wins a grievance.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188775]I would still do and have a contract ready to offer exactly the same as was offered to Smith. Then have a trade worked out for March 14th.

[B]Worse thing that happens is either he signs or wins a grievance[/B].

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

Those would be incredibly bad options.

1) If he files a grievance then the 34M would be against our cap until that is resolved. Basically a self inflicted cap penalty for this year. Several things would follow as a result of that:
a) we could not execute the trade for AS, so we would have no qb of note going into the offseason.
b) we could not use the FT on Zach Brown or any other player, so likely would lose at least one player we want to keep
c) if did try to get AS, then we would have zero cap space while the grievance proceeds.

2) I don't see where you think he would sign the AS deal, without a grievance. But even if he did, the relationship would be even worse than what ever it was last year, and that's not a qb you want on your team.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188778]Those would be incredibly bad options.

1) If he files a grievance then the 34M would be against our cap until that is resolved. Basically a self inflicted cap penalty for this year. Several things would follow as a result of that:
a) we could not execute the trade for AS, so we would have no qb of note going into the offseason.
b) we could not use the FT on Zach Brown or any other player, so likely would lose at least one player we want to keep
c) if did try to get AS, then we would have zero cap space while the grievance proceeds.

2) I don't see where you think he would sign the AS deal, without a grievance. But even if he did, the relationship would be even worse than what ever it was last year, and that's not a qb you want on your team.[/QUOTE]I don't think he would sign an AS deal. But it shows a reasonable offer.

They can use it Feb 20 and do a trade or rescind it march 14th

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188779]I don't think he would sign an AS deal. But it shows a reasonable offer.

They can use it Feb 20 and do a trade or rescind it march 14th

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

I don't think you get the point of the section I quoted earlier - it specifically states that's a violation:
[quote]It shall be deemed to be a violation of this provision if, while the tender is outstanding, a Club insists that such a player agree to a Player Contract at a compensation level during the upcoming season below that of the Required Tender amount.[/quote]
By offering the FT tender the Skins would be making the legal declaration that they intend to have KC back on contract on the 1st game of the season AT the tender amount, unless the two sides mutually agree on a long term deal. Having a deal that KC won't sign on the table, and a contract offered to AS which would put us over the cap with the FT amount would seemingly be a no brainer for the grievance judge to find us in violation.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188780]I don't think you get the point of the section I quoted earlier - it specifically states that's a violation:

By offering the FT tender the Skins would be making the legal declaration that they intend to have KC back on contract on the 1st game of the season AT the tender amount, unless the two sides mutually agree on a long term deal. Having a deal that KC won't sign on the table, and a contract offered to AS which would put us over the cap with the FT amount would seemingly be a no brainer for the grievance judge to find us in violation.[/QUOTE]They can structure the deal so that he is getting his tender offer this year.

Trust me if the Skins have it in place to get a second or higher than they will tag him. There is a reason you have lawyers.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I am in two grievances right now one which looks like a sure winner for me. But my employer still has to try.

I don't blame the Skins if they try. I am kind of glad they are being more business like and less fan boy in how they handle players.

Now Allen must learn winning is what is most important and be consistent.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188781]They can structure the deal so that he is getting his tender offer this year.

Trust me if the Skins have it in place to get a second or higher than they will tag him. There is a reason you have lawyers.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

If they structure a deal that gives KC 34M this year, why would he go somewhere else, and why would he take it? He would sign the FT, refuse any less available LT deal, and be 100% free next year. Take the 34M, tell the world that hey, that's what the CBA has put in place, and I'm looking forward to FA next year. Meanwhile the Skins would have a QB who is clearly not playing for the team, a 34M cap hit and the entire team in disarray.

OR

They let KC go, be done with the drama, sign AS to a reasonable deal, and start building the team around him.

Your plan would have the Skins clutching at straws to get a 2nd round pick while risking serious Cap and Draft penalties if KC filed a grievance and won.
WHY RISK IT.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188783]If they structure a deal that gives KC 34M this year, why would he go somewhere else, and why would he take it? He would sign the FT, refuse any less available LT deal, and be 100% free next year. Take the 34M, tell the world that hey, that's what the CBA has put in place, and I'm looking forward to FA next year. Meanwhile the Skins would have a QB who is clearly not playing for the team, a 34M cap hit and the entire team in disarray.

OR

They let KC go, be done with the drama, sign AS to a reasonable deal, and start building the team around him.

Your plan would have the Skins clutching at straws to get a 2nd round pick while risking serious Cap and Draft penalties if KC filed a grievance and won.
WHY RISK IT.[/QUOTE]And you trade him if he signs.

You only offer it if you have a trade ready.

Your long term deal is for the same money AS is getting just structured differently.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188782]I am in two grievances right now one which looks like a sure winner for me. But my employer still has to try.

I don't blame the Skins if they try. I am kind of glad they are being more business like and less fan boy in how they handle players.

Now Allen must learn winning is what is most important and be consistent.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

I was a Shop Steward for 27 years out of my 31 with my Company and nothing is ever a a "sure winner",sometimes the "big picture " plays an important roll on the out come of a "sure winner".

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188784]And you trade him if he signs.[/quote]



No one will trade for him at that price,no one.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188785]I was a Shop Steward for 27 years out of my 31 with my Company and nothing is ever a a "sure winner",sometimes the "big picture " plays an important roll on the out come of a "sure winner".[/QUOTE]The company is already doing bad under questioning. And right now the government is taking a very dim view on employers trying to punish employees in connection with the new labour laws.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188784]And you trade him if he signs.

You only offer it if you have a trade ready.

Your long term deal is for the same money AS is getting just structured differently.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

First, If we sign KC to a deal, AS is not coming here. Why would he.

2nd, you are missing a whole lot of the points:
1) we can't negotiate with other teams without the FT in place. But if we negotiate, KC's lawyers would argue that proves our intent was not in good faith.
2) It doesn't matter if the LTD is the same money, If KC gets 34M this year, which he would, WHY would he sign it, when he can sign the FT and get 34M this year and be free and clear of the Skins next year?? He already has shown that is how he would handle it by the past two years.
3) What team, if the Skins have a deal on the table with KC for the FT tender amount this year, is going to make a trade for him? No other team is going to pay him the cap sum of 34M this year?
4) We would be stupid to put our team on the hook for 34M for a QB we have moved on from.
5) A second round pick isn't worth risking the cap penalty or loss of draft picks that losing a grievance (WHICH KC HAS SAID HE WILL FILE) that you have at best a 50/50 shot to win. (We would definitely lose it, but I am saying 50/50 because weirder things have happened)

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188788]First, If we sign KC to a deal, AS is not coming here. Why would he.

2nd, you are missing a whole lot of the points:
1) we can't negotiate with other teams without the FT in place. But if we negotiate, KC's lawyers would argue that proves our intent was not in good faith.
2) It doesn't matter if the LTD is the same money, If KC gets 34M this year, which he would, WHY would he sign it, when he can sign the FT and get 34M this year and be free and clear of the Skins next year?? He already has shown that is how he would handle it by the past two years.
3) What team, if the Skins have a deal on the table with KC for the FT tender amount this year, is going to make a trade for him? No other team is going to pay him the cap sum of 34M this year?
4) We would be stupid to put our team on the hook for 34M for a QB we have moved on from.
5) A second round pick isn't worth risking the cap penalty or loss of draft picks that losing a grievance (WHICH KC HAS SAID HE WILL FILE) that you have at best a 50/50 shot to win. (We would definitely lose it, but I am saying 50/50 because weirder things have happened)[/QUOTE]You don't have formal negotiations with any team. Just friendly conversations.

Like I said the Skins should do what is in their best interest.

Next CBA I think there will be issues to cover.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188789]You don't have formal negotiations with any team. Just friendly conversations.

Like I said the Skins should do what is in their best interest.

Next CBA I think there will be issues to cover.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

Fair enough. I hope and expect that the Skins let KC go now, use the extra cap cash to improve the team, and move forward as drama free as the Skins can be..

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188790]Fair enough. I hope and expect that the Skins let KC go now, use the extra cap cash to improve the team, and move forward as drama free as the Skins can be..[/QUOTE]If they feel it is best then do it.

I hope they learn from this and draft and keep or sign guys who are team first.

If they get a real NT in the draft this year then maybe all the crap from the Shanny years will be fixed finally.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188787]The company is already doing bad under questioning. And right now the government is taking a very dim view on employers trying to punish employees in connection with the new labour laws.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

Maybe it's different in Canada but in the USA ,it would be forced to arbitration and that's when a sure winner goes down the drain.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188792]Maybe it's different in Canada but in the USA ,it would be forced to arbitration and that's when a sure winner goes down the drain.[/QUOTE]We are at arbitration now. 1 issue I see us losing one I see us winning.

Unfortunately we are in a Kirk cousins situation where we were offered the best contract most of us ever saw. Raises every year jobs guaranteed for 7 years better benefits and vacation time. But guys thought they were worth more. So it got voted down and we got a thousand dollars bonus but all the goodwill is gone so things end up at arbitration now. Guys overestimated their worth. Now my company is testing automation.

I think Cousins is hoping the Skins tag him. Because he is not getting Jimmy G money. Articles in Denver and NY saying why hurt the franchise for one good but not great player. Buffalo is calling around to see what it takes to get to the top 10.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[url]https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/19/quarterback-free-agency-draft-peter-king-mmqb?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social[/url]

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1188797][url]https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/19/quarterback-free-agency-draft-peter-king-mmqb?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social[/url][/QUOTE]The Broncos have 26 million in cap space. They will either need players to redo contracts, make cuts or Cousins needs to take less.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188800]The Broncos have 26 million in cap space. They will either need players to redo contracts, make cuts or Cousins needs to take less.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/19/report-jets-will-pay-whatever-it-takes-to-get-kirk-cousins/]Report: Jets will pay “whatever it takes” to get Kirk Cousins – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Where I think he'll land all along

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188803][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/19/report-jets-will-pay-whatever-it-takes-to-get-kirk-cousins/]Report: Jets will pay “whatever it takes” to get Kirk Cousins – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Where I think he'll land all along[/quote]


If they are that desperate I would informally call them.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Dan73;1188809]If they are that desperate I would informally call them.[/quote]

I bet u they would give us the 6th pick for him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1188810]I bet u they would give us the 6th pick for him.[/QUOTE]If that happened Allen should get a parade.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

But Kirk will be a dick and file a grievance and that wouldn't work so let him walk

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1188812]But Kirk will be a dick and file a grievance and that wouldn't work so let him walk[/QUOTE]Let him file.

Let Cousins become such a headache teams look at kapernic

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