Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;664860]You're right. You're 100% right. I'm really hoping we don't make any trades, don't sign any free agents, simply skip out on making any other selections during the draft and that we just pick Bradford at #4 and go home. It would totally piss me off if we sign Ben Hamilton as a FA, draft an LT like Brown, Campbell, or Fox at the top of the 2nd round, trade into the 3rd and pick up an RT like Calloway, spend a 4th on an interior lineman...that would really grind my gears. Because all I want is Sam Bradford and nothing else. After all, the off-season is all about the 1st round pick and nothing else, isn't it?[/quote]

Excellent point SS. People keep treating the #4 pick like it is the only opportunity that we have to upgrade the team, when in fact it is just one opportunity (if a good one) among many.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;664896]When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?[/quote]

So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB. Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664905]So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, [B]in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB.[/B] Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.[/quote]

I first want to say that I am not partisan here and would be happy with either an OT or a QB at #4.

But I think it would be easier in 2011 to trade up to get a stud tackle than it would be to trade up to get an elite QB. Elite QB's typically go in the top 5 or maybe top 10 picks, whereas very good tackles can be found all over the first round.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

I give up.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664905]So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB. Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.[/quote]
I'm not banking on Bradford. I'm banking on Clausen. He's the only QB I would use the #4 pick on. That's just me, I have no idea how Shanahan/Allen have Bradford/Clausen rated.

Our OL isn't going to be in the shambles it was last year. I think we can agree Dock is fine. Rabach is serviceable but needs to be replaced soon. Between Levi Jones and Heyer we can produce a serviceable RT. At the top of the second we may find Brown from USC, Campbell from UMD, Asamoah, or Pouncey from UF. UFAs Bridges, Pashos can provide depth at T. I'm not ready to give up on Rinehart and/or E. Williams developing at G. Better scheme, better playcalling will also help the OL.

The David Carr thing doesn't work, we're not an expansion team and we have excellent offensive minds at HC & OC. Didn't Carr run a spread at Fresno St.?

Who are the elite QBs for 2011, Locker, maybe Luck. Now way I'm giving up what it would cost in picks/players to get into the top 5 to get one of those two, even if they are elite. We have the pick to get an elite QB now, we need to get it done if Clausen is there.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

I really think the biggest point of contention here is Campbell. Some believe with a quality o-line we can go to the playoffs and beyond and question whether either Bradford or Clausen would truly be an upgrade at QB. Others believe we'll never go far with JC whether we improve the line or not and a change must be made at the position. Unfortunately due to the circumstances with, poor o-line play, system changes, unstability etc., it's become hard to come up with a conclusive answer. There are reasons to believe JC can do the job, improving stats behind a horrible o-line etc., and there are reasons to believe one of the top QB's in the draft could be elite, but there are still unanswered questions in both cases.
One thing I'm sure of, we cannot win with this o-line. If we decide to draft Bradford or Clausen, I will be behind it. But if we draft Okung in the first and Pouncey in the second for example, I'll feel like the days of the o-line taking a backseat to any and every skill position are over. And I will be damn happy about it.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664864]Yeah, but they could also pick up Okung with the #4, and a solid RT with #2 or in the later rounds, and you have your tackles for the next 10 years (if everything works out).

While I get what you are doing, you're one of the few people in the Bradford camp that actually makes an argument on how to build the line and drafting Bradford, without saying "Shanahan is know to build offensive lines with just about anyone."[/quote]
It seems that most people making the argument of a QB are saying the same thing as Smoot

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

Either way, assuming we have a QB picked early.. and starts somewhat early on, you can be sure every mistake will be pointed out and used to trash him, though Campbell was sheltered from most of those

reminds me a lot of the political threads where everything is the new admin's fault

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664933]Either way, assuming we have a QB picked early.. and starts somewhat early on, you can be sure every mistake will be pointed out and used to trash him, though Campbell was sheltered from most of those

[B]reminds me a lot of the political threads where everything is the new admin's fault[/B][/quote]

Most of it is

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

yeah, every thing was just peachy under Zorn and Pres. Bush. maybe some day we can have threads that stick to the topic

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;664896]When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?[/quote]An elite offense player at ANY position, quarterback or anywhere else, probably gets us past .500.

And again, if there's an elite quarterback in this draft, someone with the ideal height, arm, accuracy, mental makeup, and college production, my methods certainly aren't good enough to find him. Bradford, I think, is the one guy who even passes the smell test, but even then, I wouldn't spend a top pick on a guy who I haven't seen deliver the ball under duress in college.

We should at least try to draft an elite offensive player at No. 4. Saying that we need a franchise qb (whatever the heck that is) shrinks the possible talent pool by 80-90 percent. We need way to much help to limit the search to one position. And I'd use the same argument for the OT...except that Davis and Okung come ahead of any RB or WR or QB on most boards. I think there's a general consensus that the three highest [I]rated[/I] players (as opposed to [I]best prospects[/I]) are some combination of Davis, Okung, and Bradford.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

What if Berry is there at 4? Which is very possible. Do you take him over OL or QB?

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665016]What if Berry is there at 4? Which is very possible. Do you take him over OL or QB?[/quote]

Well if he is it just increases are chances of trading down. I don't want us taking secondary help in the first round again when our offense is such an area of concern.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=WaldSkins;665023]Well if he is it just increases are chances of trading down. I don't want us taking secondary help in the first round again when our offense is such an area of concern.[/quote]

I'll second that. I'd love to have him, but our offensive needs are much greater.

Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665016]What if Berry is there at 4? Which is very possible. Do you take him over OL or QB?[/quote]No. Agree w/53 & Wald, perfect trade down scenario for us.