Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443976]You have to figure Thrash is gone and as someone alluded to earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if ARE got traded. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

Don't forget folks we have six picks tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

ARE rumor has been hovering for a while, but I have no idea to whom or for what

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443955]On the offensive line, you have to figure [B]Jon Jansen[/B] will be in the mix this season. Like it or not, that's how it's going down. I would also have to think [B]Stephon Heyer[/B], only a second year player, will be better on some mechanics, strength, and maybe add some bulk. Even if he's marginally better, and no on this board would argue that kid more than held his own last year, he's a very solid back up.

[B]Chris Samuels[/B] - Let's face it, no one is going to beat him out anytime soon. He's going to play until the wheels fall off. So I don't care how good your left tackle is coming out of the draft, that's just not a position we're looking to make any immediate changes.

[B]Casey Rabach[/B] - Again, a very solid player that is possibly the glue to the entire offensive line. He's, and I say only 30 years old right now, and has a lot of years left at that position.

[B]Randy Thomas[/B] - What else do we need to say here. Our best all around offensive lineman.

[B]Peter Kendall[/B] - Here's a position where the Skins maybe looking to replace a starter, but this year isn't that year.

[B]So from I can see, at best the Skins need to add some depth here and not look for any immediate starters or impact players. You never want to say never, but I just can't imagine the offensive line getting crippled with injuries the way they did last year. No way, no how.[/B][/QUOTE]

Now there's optimism, and there's optimism, but this... this is a whole nuther level.:laughing- Seriously though, we don't have a backup guard to my knowledge unless you think Alexander is coming through (you better not mention Fabini or I will find you). And w/ Kendell's arthritic knees and RTs struggle to stay healthy... at the very least we need a very high quality guard (if not starting caliber). I guess I can give Heyer the benefit of the doubt for when JJ goes down, but at least give me a a guard. Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443976]You have to figure Thrash is gone and as someone alluded to earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if ARE got traded. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

Don't forget folks we have six picks tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

I would love to see ARE traded for someone of value. I like the man, but as a WR he lacks what we need. He's too much money too.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I'm just saying, I never saw what happened today coming. So who knows whats next. I guess trading ARE would take a large hit on the cap.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;443924]Well...my concerns about overcompensating on O....and ignoring bigger needs will have to wait until tommorrow...
If we do well and shore up both lines and secondary with our highest picks...it could be a great draft....
But lets be honest here....aint no way we get an impact pass rusher with whats left....hopefully Chris Wilson and Andre Carter can handle that![/QUOTE]
It sure would have been great to get Carter some help! Now to get help for the D line or the O line is highly unlikely! We have a late 3rd,early 4th and no 5th. A 6th and three 7ths. If we get one starter here we will be lucky. I hope the lines can hold up another year!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443974]Cooley aint going no where. Believe that. You don't trade an up and coming Pro-Bowler for a rookie. You'll see them both on the field together, quite a bit.

I can't really speak to Malcolm's forced smile - didn't see it. But the kid's coming to a playoff team with a lot of weapons on offense, a hard hitting defense, and a franchise with a rich, rich tradition.

Unless he was on some weed at the time, he has to be happy about that.[/quote]
I didn't see the forced smile, but if he was disappointed it was probably because he was originally a 1st round projection and he fell off because of poor 40 times and acting like a baby about it.

As 12th said, he should be overjoyed to come to Washington and have an opportunity to play with Campbell, Portis, Cooley & our OL (healthy) and have a chance to start immediately for an offense-minded head coach.

I'm not thrilled with Kelly, but I haven't watched hours of film on him either. We could've taken Sweed, so hopefully the coaches and FO did their homework on him. But I don't think an argument can be made that he wasn't a value at # 51.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=The Goat;443981]Now there's optimism, and there's optimism, but this... this is a whole nuther level.:laughing- Seriously though, we don't have a backup guard to my knowledge unless you think Alexander is coming through (you better not mention Fabini or I will find you). And w/ Kendell's arthritic knees and RTs struggle to stay healthy... at the very least we need a very high quality guard (if not starting caliber). I guess I can give Heyer the benefit of the doubt for when JJ goes down, but at least give me a a guard. Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

No, Fabini did okay for a back up last year. Don't forget our entire right side of the offensive line went down last year. At one point, I believe only Chris Samuels was the only starter playing in his regular position.

The lineman that went high today's draft figure to start for those teams. We don't have starter need, but we do have depth need. And for the most part, I feel as though our depth is solid. Could be better, but it aint the worse in the league either.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=The Goat;443981]Now there's optimism, and there's optimism, but this... this is a whole nuther level.:laughing- Seriously though, we don't have a backup guard to my knowledge unless you think Alexander is coming through (you better not mention Fabini or I will find you). And w/ Kendell's arthritic knees and RTs struggle to stay healthy... at the very least we need a very high quality guard (if not starting caliber). I guess I can give Heyer the benefit of the doubt for when JJ goes down, but at least give me a a guard. Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
They're still having rounds 3-7 tomorrow right? There are still June 1 cuts and trades that could be made right? I'm sure we will hit our needs at G and on defense tomorrow.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I'm not really surprised we didn't take a DE today. I know all the boards had us taking one and it was the conventional wisdom, but I heard Blache say at least a few times he wanted a stud DT to create havoc in the middle. That's why I thought we'd take a DT (was hoping for Balmer) and two, yes two, o-lineman.

So I was wrong by how much...

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Thrash is probably indeed toast as well as any WR that isn't Moss or Randle El, unless the latter two will be trade bait. Strange pick for a new TE. Guy is a beast, but we do need a S and a young CB real bad, so why "waste" a pick on a non necessity? Zorn must not like our depth a TE at all. Overall I am OK with today's events though. IF Cooley goes down we have a beast of a backup or even someone that can give Cooley some real competition. Moss is getting old and gets banged up too easy anymore. Still pissed at that fumble of his that cost us the Packers game and his nonchalant attitude about his crappy play that followed.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=jsarno;443983]I would love to see ARE traded for someone of value. I like the man, but as a WR he lacks what we need. He's too much money too.[/quote]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind unloading that contract of his either. He's a helleva team guy though. So whatever you gain in talent, you probably lose in terms of leadership and veteran saavy or is it spelled savvy?

I would say unload him for a defender of equal value; any position mind you.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Maybe its just me, and maybe this is usually the case, but does anyone else find it odd that Zorn wasn't even at the draft? He also sounded surprised with some of his comments that we got the players we got...

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443989]No, Fabini did okay for a back up last year. Don't forget our entire right side of the offensive line went down last year. At one point, I believe only Chris Samuels was the only starter playing in his regular position.

The lineman that went high today's draft figure to start for those teams. We don't have starter need, but we do have depth need. And for the most part, I feel as though our depth is solid. Could be better, but it aint the worse in the league either.[/QUOTE]

Alright. I know you have about a million posts here and I have 45 but Fabini? Did ok? Fabini made us the most predictable offense in the NFL for half the season because he couldn't have blocked me at DT.

Most running plays went something like this... "Portis/Betts line up in the backfield and take the hand-off to the left but oh, looks like they we're caught from behind or stopped at the LOS when the right side collapsed for Washington." And then Fabini would rub his belly hair and shake his head while looking up at the bleachers. I think I saw Fabini at a truck stop earlier this year even, I'm sure it's his job in the off-season.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;443990]They're still having rounds 3-7 tomorrow right? There are still June 1 cuts and trades that could be made right? I'm sure we will hit our needs at G and on defense tomorrow.[/quote]


WE get 3 picks 7th round, but come on, how many 7th rounders actually make the team other than practice squad? Last years late rounders are no longer Skins anymore, think it will be any different this year? In my mind we really only have one pick tomorrow in the 4th round and the rest will be cut or just practice squad fodder. We might fulfill our G needs with late picks, but nothing more. The duo WR picks and the surprising TE pickup might be an indication, as others here have speculated of some impending cuts and/or trades with some vets on the squad to deal with our needs.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;443994]Maybe its just me, and maybe this is usually the case, but does anyone else find it odd that Zorn wasn't even at the draft? He also sounded surprised with some of his comments that we got the players we got...[/quote]

Honestly, this guy is behind the scense drawing up and Xs and Os and still getting adjusted to his new gig. I think after this year, he'll be more active with the draft and that sort of thing. For all intent and purposes, he's a rookie Head Coach.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;443998]Alright. I know you have about a million posts here and I have 45 but Fabini? Did ok? Fabini made us the most predictable offense in the NFL for half the season because he couldn't have blocked me at DT.

Most running plays went something like this... "Portis/Betts line up in the backfield and take the hand-off to the left but oh, looks like they we're caught from behind or stopped at the LOS when the right side collapsed for Washington." And then Fabini would rub his belly hair and shake his head while looking up at the bleachers. I think I saw Fabini at a truck stop earlier this year even, I'm sure it's his job in the off-season.[/QUOTE]
Both lines are a big question mark!!!!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;443994]Maybe its just me, and maybe this is usually the case, but does anyone else find it odd that Zorn wasn't even at the draft? He also sounded surprised with some of his comments that we got the players we got...[/quote]

Do you mean at the draft or with the Redskins at Redskins Park? Because if you are suprised that he wasn't at the actual draft, that's really no big deal, there aren't any head coaches who actually go to the draft, they usually just send 3-4 team personnel to New York to put the name on the card and notify the league who they are drafting. Everyone else, i.e. front office, coaches, DS, they are all at Redskins Park.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete;444001]Both lines are a big question mark!!!![/QUOTE]

Dude I know I've been saying that all off-season. Like I said before: a DT and two o-lineman is what I expected after the trade. Before the trade I expected a split of DT and G or OT.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=The Goat;443998]Alright. I know you have about a million posts here and I have 45 but Fabini? Did ok? Fabini made us the most predictable offense in the NFL for half the season because he couldn't have blocked me at DT.

Most running plays went something like this... "Portis/Betts line up in the backfield and take the hand-off to the left but oh, looks like they we're caught from behind or stopped at the LOS when the right side collapsed for Washington." And then Fabini would rub his belly hair and shake his head while looking up at the bleachers. I think I saw Fabini at a truck stop earlier this year even, I'm sure it's his job in the off-season.[/quote]

Okay, the post thing was funny. Maybe parking lot posts should count, that's another discussion though:)

Look I'm not trying to make Fabini a Pro-Bowler here. But I think people around here expect back ups to play like All Pro material. There's a reason why they're riding the pine. Back-ups need to be good back-ups. And depending on who we draft tomorrow, and we could unearth a gem, Fabini might not even make the team. Let's just see how tomorrow shakes out first.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

And even though we have 6 picks, 3 of them are at the tail end of the 7th round. We only have 3 picks in rounds 3-6, and we don't have a fifth round pick. That means we're looking at roughly 3 guys who will make the squad as depth, and then if we get lucky in the 7th round we might be able to get some more depth. But 7th round picks rarely make the team in our case, the last 7th rounder who actually has stuck around was Rock Cartwright from the '02 draft class. That's why we'll be lucky if we can get some good players in the 7th round.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GusFrerotte;443999]WE get 3 picks 7th round, but come on, how many 7th rounders actually make the team other than practice squad? Last years late rounders are no longer Skins anymore, think it will be any different this year? In my mind we really only have one pick tomorrow in the 4th round and the rest will be cut or just practice squad fodder. We might fulfill our G needs with late picks, but nothing more. The duo WR picks and the surprising TE pickup might be an indication, as others here have speculated of some impending cuts and/or trades with some vets on the squad to deal with our needs.[/QUOTE] Don't we have a late 3rd and a early 4th? Still hitting one starter would be great for us! We shot the hole draft on a TE and two WR's with a D line and O line in need of help along with a 3rd QB also needed a S ,CB with maybe a LB as well! Alot to fill with a 3,4,6 and three 7ths left!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I think we could look to package some of those 7th rounders to move up a bit.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;444006]Dude I know I've been saying that all off-season. Like I said before: a DT and two o-lineman is what I expected after the trade. Before the trade I expected a split of DT and G or OT.[/QUOTE]

IMHO we have a workable rotation on the d-line but it will never be dominant. But the o-line has no real depth, again IMO. Nothing whatsoever at guard and I'm not very confident about Heyer. I watched him get destroyed by Kearney during the last game, and then I watched Kearney get totally shut down by Green Bay's line the very next week.

I know I need to give it up because the day is done but I still can't believe it.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;443833]GTripp, I understand you have a blog, and I understand that you know statistics, which apparently makes you really smart, but I gotta call you on this. You don't know what you're talking about on Thomas.

The guy is strong. He sheds tacklers when running with the ball, which is very important in a WCO when running slants and such. Seeing him on tape, he CONSISTENTLY makes plays week in and week out. He cuts with fluidity and doesn't lose speed coming in and out of breaks, which is something that makes or break a WR at the next level when they face much tighter coverage.

I'm not a measurables guy. But if you like that kind of thing, he's a 4.4 WR who stands 6 feet 2.

And the "short body of work" argument is just retarded. You can't put up 1260 yards over the course of 13 games, in a RUN ORIENTED OFFENSE, if you're not talented.

He was the best WR available in this draft.[/quote]So which card are you playing here? The draft is a crapshoot, I don't know what I'm talking about, or speed and strength is all that matters for a receiver?

If it's the latter, I'm calling you on this. If the former, then I'm willing to play the wait and see game. However, the methodology still sucks.

At best, it becomes a "we did okay, but we should have done better" kind of thing. That's not what we should be working towards with the first selection of the draft.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I am a little worried that we wont address our needs tommorrow...as Vinny says we are going to stick to the board....kinda implied no matter what....so if a long snapper is available and is the best player....are they gunna pick them?

I understand best player in the top of the draft...but talent is a lot more even later.
Why not fill needs?
If we draft the best player in the 6th and they are a WR....I will freak out.
We should easily be able to draft depth at Oline, Dline LB, secondary.
Please please please....let that happen!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;444014]I think we could look to package some of those 7th rounders to move up a bit.[/QUOTE]

That would make a lot of sense. What are 7th rounders worth (if we package the three)?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

You can't trade comp picks ,,,, maybe we draft more Wr's .

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;444016]So which card are you playing here? The draft is a crapshoot, I don't know what I'm talking about, or speed and strength is all that matters for a receiver?

If it's the latter, I'm calling you on this. If the former, then I'm willing to play the wait and see game. However, the methodology still sucks.

At best, it becomes a "we did okay, but we should have done better" kind of thing. That's not what we should be working towards with the first selection of the draft.[/QUOTE]

With regard to Thomas is it true that he drops passes? I know I heard the guys on ESPN mention this as a concern. They also said he's great w/ the ball in his hands but that sounds a lot like that guy I've been watching the last few years... what's his name... MOSS!!!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

hopefully the skins will finish like this
pick 96: DaJuan Morgan S North Carolina State or Joshua Barrett S Arizona State
Pick 103: Dre Moore DT Maryland or Josh Johnson QB San Diego

Then fill the oline, corner and LB positions in the late rounds or udfa.
Bobbie Willams needs to be a skin!!!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;443894]If we have that kind of success from Cooley and Davis, then it was a brilliant pick.

Jason Campbell will never have the excuse that he never had anything to work with here.[/quote]One of the beauties of the Davis pick is that it decreases the amount of receivers we need to have on the field.

Which is wonderful, because we then drafted two receivers.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=The Goat;444026]With regard to Thomas is it true that he drops passes? I know I heard the guys on ESPN mention this as a concern. They also said he's great w/ the ball in his hands but that sounds a lot like that guy I've been watching the last few years... what's his name... MOSS!!![/quote]We don't really know if Thomas drops passes. We don't know if he runs good routes. We don't know if he's an NFL talent. Nothing he did in college suggests that he's good at anything football.

He's fast and strong. That much we know about him. He can jump, and move laterally very fast.

Sold? I'm not.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=RedskinPete;443987]It sure would have been great to get Carter some help! Now to get help for the D line or the O line is highly unlikely! We have a late 3rd,early 4th and no 5th. A 6th and three 7ths. If we get one starter here we will be lucky. I hope the lines can hold up another year![/quote]Depth in the trenches, or lack thereof, will be our achilles heel until it gets addressed. I'm hoping that Vinny has some good OL/DL projects in mind for tomorrow.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;444045]Depth in the trenches, or lack thereof, will be our achilles heel until it gets addressed. I'm hoping that Vinny has some good OL/DL projects in mind for tomorrow.[/QUOTE] Lets say the first three are that good. But this draft to be great we will need to hit one or two starters out of the last six picks! You can see from the 07 season when one O linemen was out it hurt but as they begain to fall it was hard to find any replacement. Not able to run the ball or pass. Vinny needs to find some help sunday for this draft to be great!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;444044]We don't really know if Thomas drops passes. We don't know if he runs good routes. We don't know if he's an NFL talent. Nothing he did in college suggests that he's good at anything football.

He's fast and strong. That much we know about him. He can jump, and move laterally very fast.

Sold? I'm not.[/QUOTE]

Not sold in the least. We could have taken Rachal here for our oline talent and still done the "crazy" thing w/ the best TE in the draft and a great big WR. I would sleep much better tonight if that was the reality.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=budw38;444025]You can't trade comp picks ,,,, maybe we draft more Wr's .[/QUOTE]

Then we should try to trade our 6th and the noncom 7th for a 5th (or if we're damn lucky another 4th. Let's be honest, as it stands right now we basically have two real picks left in the 08 draft. 6th and 7th rounders are almost always punching bags who get thrown aside. Coming away w/ another real pick would be slick.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;444044]We don't really know if Thomas drops passes. We don't know if he runs good routes. We don't know if he's an NFL talent. Nothing he did in college suggests that he's good at anything football.

He's fast and strong. That much we know about him. He can jump, and move laterally very fast.

Sold? I'm not.[/QUOTE]

I'm totally baffled by this post. I think you spend too much time with your metrics and DVOAs and your DPARs that you overanalyze way too often and then you find yourself trying to convince us that we're better off with Tim Rattay, yet Devin Thomas has only shown the ability to run and jump

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;444063]I'm totally baffled by this post. I think you spend too much time with your metrics and DVOAs and your DPARs that you overanalyze way too often and then you find yourself trying to convince us that we're better off with Tim Rattay, yet Devin Thomas has only shown the ability to run and jump[/quote]Forget about me for a second. Is anything I said untrue?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;444083]Forget about me for a second. Is anything I said untrue?[/QUOTE]

Well I don't know what you mean by "We don't know if he's an NFL talent" Technically we don't know that about anyone until they play in an NFL game

And then "nothing he did in college suggests he good at anything football" What does that even mean?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Yeah I am baffled too. Tripp you have given none of your treasured evidence to show why Thomas is such a dud. You just say it like it is proven fact and the only people on the planet who didn't know he sucked were the redskins and most of their fans.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;444083]Forget about me for a second. Is anything I said untrue?[/QUOTE]

Let's look.

[quote]We don't really know if Thomas drops passes. We don't know if he runs good routes. We don't know if he's an NFL talent.[/quote]
I'd stipulate to all of that but you'd have to stipulate that everything you said was irrelevant. We "know" no more about Thomas than any other player in this draft as SS pointed out. We can't possibly preict the future.

[quote]Nothing he did in college suggests that he's good at anything football.[/quote]

Gosh really?
GRec Yds TD Lg Rec/G Avg/C Avg/G
13 79 1260 8 80 6.1 15.9 96.9

NONE of that shows he can play football? None?