Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;677069]
The Stimulus Bill, a third of which was [B]tax cuts[/B], contained one of the largest tax cuts in history for the middle class. .[/quote]

since obamas been in office my taxas have gone [B]up[/B] 12 dollars a month. doesn't sound like much but it's definately not a [B]tax cut.[/B]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=wolfeskins;677078]i've said it before and i'll say it again, obama will go down as [B]the worse president in the history of this great nation[/B]. he fooled alot of people into voting for him with his good reading of a telaprompter. people are now realizing they made a huge mistake in voting for this idiot. thats why he and the dummycrats need to push this bill through because every day that goes by more and more people are seeing obama for what he really is.

as for nancy, she's just a puppet for obama. her fall will be almost as mighty as obamas.[/quote]
he left the White House in 2008:)

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;564212]You're going to get ****ed either way, man. Either it's uncle sam doing the thrusting or private corporations. At least public officials are somewhat accountable. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is NOT the answer to every question.[/quote]


We haven't had a truly free market in the country for almost 100 years. Trouble is corporatism, not capitalism. By the way it is big Pharma that is pushing for the bill to go through. The poor will be fined for not having insurance? And when the hell are public officials held accountable anymore? If public officials were held accountable and listened to their constituents we would have pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan by now and all of these wall street goons would be in the federal pen. ANd last, but not least, do you really want the US Federal Govt to be in charge of health care? I mean look at the sad ass state of education or the fine mess we are in in the Middle East.

Re: Obama Care
 

We are plain screwed. Both sides are now in the back pocket of the corporatists. It is nothing more than a good cop/bad cop scenario, where one party screws you over while the other pretends to care. The Dems always caved into Bush over the wars, and the GOP seems toothless against Obama's building on Bush's crap. THe fact is that conservatives are now neutered and totally discredited by backing Bush for 8 years, so any opposition to Obama's crap by them is seen as sour grapes. THe only folks that are not hypocrites in all of this were the Ron Paul folks on the right and the true progressives on the left that had finally started to see the sham of all this BS under Bush. Too bad these two groups are seen as lunatic fringe by the mass media.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=wolfeskins;677078]i've said it before and i'll say it again, obama will go down as the worse president in the history of this great nation. he fooled alot of people into voting for him with his good reading of a telaprompter. people are now realizing they made a huge mistake in voting for this idiot. thats why he and the dummycrats need to push this bill through because every day that goes by more and more people are seeing obama for what he really is.

as for nancy, she's just a puppet for obama. her fall will be almost as mighty as obamas.[/quote]

Where is the opposition to all of this though? Pretty weak to me. Also Obama is just another term for Bush. Same exact policies in terms of hard politics(economy and foreign policy), and just expansion of Bush's domestic policies(Medicare expansion) to univeral health care. Obama might suck, but he is just another disaster that those that are really in control have given us. Obama is either going to win reelection(probability in my mind) or you are going to get either Palin or Romney. Oh joy, oh rapture!!!!!!! Both are Bush clones, just that Sarah looks like a middle aged Barbie Doll.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;677069][B]I see you've used the typical buzz words: "deficit", "tax increases", and "government[/B]".

But you fail to point out how the C.B.O. scored this bill and said it will reduce the deficit by, oh, $130 billion in the first 10 years and a little of a trillion in the second ten years.

The Stimulus Bill, a third of which was tax cuts, contained one of the largest tax cuts in history for the middle class. Or the jobs bill, which also passed under Nancy Pelosi's leadership, contains another $15-17 billion in tax breaks.
[B][I][U]So the "tax and spend" spin just doesn't square with the major pieces of legislations that Nancy Pelosi has steered through the House. It just doesn't[/U][/I][/B].[/quote]I see you've used the typical response the left uses when hit with facts. And a nice job almost quoting Pelosi verbatim on the CBO score.

Some points about the CBO scoring, first and foremost the CBO can only evaulate the bill and conditions it is told to evaluate, it cannot take any other factor into consideration. So when the Dems knowingly manipulate what's sent to CBO, you get the figures you mentioned. Doo-doo in, Doo-doo out.

Let's look at reality and what wasn't scored by CBO, such as:

[B]– Exclusion of the doc fix.[/B] The “doc fix,” which repeals a $371 billion Medicare cut for physician fees, is rolled into a separate bill. Lawmakers must remember: just because it’s not included in the official health bill doesn’t mean it doesn’t count as real spending.

[B]– Double-counted savings from the CLASS Act.[/B] The CLASS Act included in the bill creates a new entitlement for which beneficiaries would pay premiums upfront for benefits received further down the road. [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031803558_pf.html"][COLOR=#0c5da2]Marcus explains[/COLOR][/URL]: “Of the $138 billion saved in the first 10 years, $70 billion represents premiums collected for a new long-term-care program, money the government will have to pay in benefits later.” The revenue from the CLASS Act thus represents a false offset to other new spending.

[B]– Dubious savings from Medicare. [/B]The bill contains billions in cuts to Medicare to offset other costs. [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031803558_pf.html"][COLOR=#0c5da2]As Marcus points out[/COLOR][/URL], “The CBO is required to assume that Congress will do what it promises”, making the point that politically unpopular spending cuts are unlikely to ever come to fruition—as best evidenced by the “doc fix” that occurs every year, adding to the deficit.

[B]– A false 10-year cost window. [/B]CBO scored the first 10 years of enactment of the bill, which includes several years of raising revenue and fewer years of expenses. [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/../2010/03/18/obamacare-will-break-the-bank-not-cut-the-deficit/print"][COLOR=#0c5da2]According to budget expert James Capretta[/COLOR][/URL], “Over a full ten years of implementation, the cost of the new entitlement spending would reach $2.5 trillion, at least, not $1 trillion as advertised by the White House.”
The reconciliation package also includes new gimmicks and questionable sources of revenue:

[B]– Delay of an unpopular tax.[/B] Under the reconciliation bill, the excise tax on high cost plans would be implemented in 2018, thus reducing the total ten year revenues from the projected $149 billion under the Senate bill to just $32 billion. More interestingly, the reconciliation bill would index the application of the tax to growth in the Consumer Price Index (general inflation), which means that more and more middle class Americans would be affected by the tax once its collection began in 2018. Kicking this tax down the road to a future President and Congress portrays the unwillingness of lawmakers to collect it. [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031803558_pf.html"][COLOR=#0c5da2]Marcus questions,[/COLOR][/URL] “Will the tax really be collected…long after many of those voting for it will have left office, long after the benefits it is helping to finance have kicked in?”

[B]– Decreased value of subsidies. [/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/../2010/03/18/obamacare-will-break-the-bank-not-cut-the-deficit/print"][COLOR=#0c5da2]Says Capretta[/COLOR][/URL], “to jury-rig “long-term deficit reduction,” the latest plan would first increase the premium assistance subsidies paid to low and moderate wage families above the levels in the Senate-passed bill, but then index their value to something below the growth in premiums to give the appearance of deficit reduction in the decade after 2019.”

[URL="http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/in-the-news/obamacares-delusional-deficit-reduction-claims/#more-3228"]Obamacare’s Delusional Deficit Reduction Claims | Fix Health Care Policy[/URL]

When a Washington Post writer is casting doubt on the CBO numbers, I wouldn't be running them up the flag pole.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031803558_pf.html"]Ruth Marcus - On health reform's price tag, score one for skepticism[/URL]

Also, this bill has to be paid for somehow even if Pelosi claims it's defecit neutral (IT'S NOT). The bill is paid for by reductions in services/benefits and tax increases or tax penalties. Which again, a solid majority of the American people don't want.

And the Stimulus, that was the bill that was going to keep unemployment below 8% and "save or create" over 2M jobs, right? Didn't the U.S. economy lose 4M jobs since the beginning of 2009 and overall unemployment is still in the high 9s. All while slamming the American taxpayer (or rather our kids & grandkids) with another $800B in debt. I don't see where any of the outlays below created any jobs, and these were 80% of ARRA actual outlays.

"Five programs accounted for more than 80 percent of the outlays from ARRA in 2009: Medicaid, unemployment compensation, Social Security, the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund (which makes grants to state and local governments, mostly to maintain funding levels for education), and student financial aid. Higher federal matching rates for Medicaid accounted for $32 billion; additional payments for unemployment benefits cost $27 billion; Social Security beneficiaries received payments of $13 billion; spending through the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund added $12 billion; and direct assistance to college students (mostly for Pell grants) added $7 billion."

[URL="http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/AppendixA.shtml#1097121"]The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009[/URL]

As far as the second jobs bill, again if a left leaning media outlet is criticizing it, it probably ain't good:

[URL="http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/15/news/economy/obama_carter.fortune/index.htm?section=money_latest"]Obama's disco-era jobs bill - Feb. 15, 2010[/URL]


The Pelosi led House bears major responsibility in the ballooning of the federal deficit. Tax and Spend....the shoe sure looks like it fits.

[U][COLOR=#670100][URL]http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obama_budget_deficit_2010.jpg[/URL][/COLOR][/U]

Re: Obama Care
 

Huge govt projects like this historically always are way over budget, just is the way of the beast. When Canada enacted theirs in 1948 it was like $52 million after the first year.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;677075][URL="http://www.cnsnews.com/news/print/43924"]CNSNews.com - Massive Tax Increases Loom as Democrats Begin to Talk Fiscal Responsibility[/URL] looks like we might have tax increase's ...[/quote]


Tax increases without massive spending decreases won't help one bit with being fiscally responsible since the spending will of course more than likely still outstrip revenue. Lower taxes and lower spending is the only way to go to get our house in order.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677079]By no means is Pelosi incompetent. She's pushing forward her and the left's agenda to move the U.S. towards Euorpean socialism, by any means necessary.[/quote]

Care to qualify by any means necessary?

Re: Obama Care
 

Something needed to get done and i'm glad it happened.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;677112]Tax increases without massive spending decreases won't help one bit with being fiscally responsible since the spending will of course more than likely still outstrip revenue. Lower taxes and lower spending is the only way to go to get our house in order.[/quote]
Trust me , I'm for lower taxes / flat tax .... and much less Gov't spending . Until Our gov't < R's and D's > stop spending and printing our money to buy thier seats .... we are gonna get screwed , again sadly .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677118]Care to qualify by any means necessary?[/quote]Short of sending out Luca Brasi (as far as we know) or direct violation of any laws (pending the legal challenges forthcoming on the Health Care bill) my statement is pretty self-explanatory.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677133]Short of sending out Luca Brasi (as far as we know) or direct violation of any laws (pending the legal challenges forthcoming on the Health Care bill) my statement is pretty self-explanatory.[/quote]

I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677153]I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.[/quote]


Obviously, you have not seen Rocky IV.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;677167]Obviously, you have not seen Rocky IV.[/quote]

Good one.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677133]Short of sending out Luca Brasi (as far as we know) or direct violation of any laws (pending the legal challenges forthcoming on the Health Care bill) my statement is pretty self-explanatory.[/quote]

This is what sadness and bitterness looks like? Fascinating.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;677167]Obviously, you have not seen Rocky IV.[/quote]

:laughing2

"I must break you"

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677079]By no means is Pelosi incompetent. She's pushing forward her and the [B]left's agenda to move the U.S. towards Euorpean socialism[/B], by any means necessary.[/quote]

Unfortunately that is not true.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677153]I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.[/quote]

Some of the same people who use "socialism" as a dirty word have no problems using a government-funded ambulance service to get them to the government-funded hospital near them during an emergency. It amazes me how people some people can enjoy a measure of socialism while they use the "s" word as some kind of put-down.

Re: Obama Care
 

In a way, the Republicans share much of the blame here. Certainly not on this particular vote, as they all voted against it. But think back to when the GOP had control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. How hard did they fight for Tort Reform? For allowing the purchase of health insurance plans across state lines? For dismantling some of the insane mandates that do nothing but hike the costs?

Nope. The Republicans didn't do any of that -- in fact, they did much worse. They added an unconstitutional, outrageously expensive entitlement of their very own! I'm speaking of the Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization and Improvement Act of 2003.

You have to hand it to the Democrats. When it comes to advancing their agenda, they are much more tenacious than the GOP has ever been. When was the last time the Republicans enacted major legislation that empowers the free market, the individual, that advances capitalism? Apart from some tax cuts here and there, I can't think of any.

As the saying goes, no matter who you vote for, government always gets elected.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Beemnseven;677202][B]In a way, the Republicans share much of the blame here. Certainly not on this particular vote, as they all voted against it. But think back to when the GOP had control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. How hard did they fight for Tort Reform? For allowing the purchase of health insurance plans across state lines? For dismantling some of the insane mandates that do nothing but hike the costs?

Nope. The Republicans didn't do any of that[/B] -- in fact, they did much worse. They added an unconstitutional, outrageously expensive entitlement of their very own! I'm speaking of the Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization and Improvement Act of 2003.

You have to hand it to the Democrats. When it comes to advancing their agenda, they are much more tenacious than the GOP has ever been. When was the last time the Republicans enacted major legislation that empowers the free market, the individual, that advances capitalism? Apart from some tax cuts here and there, I can't think of any.

As the saying goes, no matter who you vote for, government always gets elected.[/quote]

Yup. Rather than attack the flawed structure to limit costs, the Republicans just opted for a strategy of obstructionism. With no real alternative presented, and with a feeling of pervasive feeling that "something needed to be done", we got this horrible bill that merely perpetuates and expands the pre-existing flaws.

Re: Obama Care
 

Maybe the arguement has already been made and I have not seen it but "Socialized Health Care" is crap.

I was informed that medical costs will be different for each class of people meaning that if some one needed an x-ray ... one persons cost might be $50.00 and another persons might be $400.00 depending on what you earn. Some people might not have to pay a dime cause they don't make any money. Basically put those paying $400 are covering for those who can't pay for their x-rays.

Secondly, before anyone goes off taling about how this is awsome and will help people please go and talk to the Canadians about their "Socialized Health Care" before you go and praise this move. Almost everyone in health care now knows this is bad. I've heard of Canadians having to come to the U.S. to get treatment cause they can't get it up in Canada. I've heard that their specialized doctors only work 3-4 months out of the year and take the rest of the year off. If you can't get in to the a heart specialist with in his 3-4 months your screwed. You either wait the rest of the year out or find another doctor.

Third, I've heard from several people in the medical field and if the Gov. is going socialized that means there will be a cap on cost. Yes that's good but if your a student doctor looking at thousands of dollars in student loans and don't make the money to pay off your loans each year due to the cap cost your screwed. As well as the public who will see less and less doctors coming out of college each year because they are not making enough money to pay their college expenses.

Fourth, Supposedly there's a rule packaged into this health package that states you can only visit your doctor so many times a year.

I agree medical costs have gotten out of hand but their has to be another way to fix this mess vs. "Socialized Health Care." I think the only people who see this as a plus are those who's jobs don't provide health care or the jobless people. They should have provided something through the Social Services Department that would suppliment peoples medical insurance costs or outright pay for it. Now people won't have a reason to work.... free food stamps, free health care, free housing. Hell I might quit work.

EDIT: I hope this issue gets canned by the Senate. If you guys want to talk "Flat tax" I'm all for it but Gov. getting involved in our health care is bad.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677153]I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.[/quote]

Basically because this country was founded on Freedom. Ever since the civil war when the south was not allowed to leave the Union, which was their right that was written into law, Gov. has been widdling away our rights. Widdling away at our freedoms. Under our last President our Gov. passed a law allowing Gov. agencies to wire tap more easily without having to go through all the safety measures to ensure big government was not tresspassing on our rights.

I for one can't understand why anyone would want the government running every aspect of your life but if you do please move. Stop trying to change my government if it doesn't suit you. Move to Russia or Romania or France or Canada if those things interest you. I'm happy with my government's limited reach into my personal life.

On a side note, Just like if you don't like whats on the radio or tv.... fricken change the channel. No need to police the airwaves for me screwing over my right to listen or watch whatever I want because you can't police your self or your child. Just because something offends one person doesn't mean it offends all.

Re: Obama Care
 

Instead of socializing medicine how about we socialize law? I'd much rather see a cap on how much lawyer's can earn or that lawyers couldn't refuse to defend a client and if you don't make any money you don't pay. If you make a ton of money then you pay a ton of money to make up for the rest of us. ;)

Re: Obama Care
 

Let the games begin.

Re: Obama Care
 

Terrific the law passed another milestone. It's great to see intimidation does not work. All that barking and no bite!!!!

Re: Obama Care
 

David Frum [URL="http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo"]said it best[/URL]:

[quote]Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.[/quote]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677173]This is what sadness and bitterness looks like? Fascinating.[/quote]Sadness for my son, your eventual kids, and both our eventual grandkids for having to work through, at a minimum, $ 18T of debt and wrest back individual freedoms from a federal government that has far over-expanded its bounds. Bitterness, maybe a little, because I'll have to strategize better to protect my families income/assets and make sure when my wife and I are gone what we leave to our family is hopefully protected from government confiscation.

Certainly this is not all the Dems or this Administration's fault, this has been brewing for decades. But Obama/Pelosi/Reid have done nothing to stem the tide and turn things around. This Administration and the majority in Congress could've been historic in putting the U.S. financial house in order. My fear is this bill and the current political agenda is the proverbial straw....

As I posted shortly after Obama's election, if he chose to govern from the center (as he campaigned) he could've made his presidency one of the best of the last 100 years. Unfortuntely we're seeing many of the same patterns of the Carter presidency.

Re: Obama Care
 

A very sober assessment of the current situation. Coming from David Frum, of all people. He's probably one of the more reasonable Republicans that, unfortunately, don't get enough air time.

It will be interesting to see Mitt Romney campaign against this, provided that he or Sarah Palin, will surely get the nomination. This plan really tracks the recommendation of some of the old school Republicans like Bob Dole, yet it's been characterized as a government takeover. Either way November will be very interesting.

Re: Obama Care
 

If VA doesn't win its lawsuit, I'll not pay my Federal taxes. I've already considered different approaches to this. I know several people who don't pay their Federal, just their state. I can no longer support the US for any reason. VA is my nation, not this POS government. Keep on playing stupid Democrat / Republican games. You'll see. Time is ticking.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677229]If VA doesn't win its lawsuit, I'll not pay my Federal taxes. I've already considered different approaches to this. I know several people who don't pay their Federal, just their state. I can no longer support the US for any reason. VA is my nation, not this POS government. Keep on playing stupid Democrat / Republican games. You'll see. Time is ticking.[/quote]

VA is your nation? Hold up yall can't keep Redskin Park to yourselves it's not fair.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677229]If VA doesn't win its lawsuit, I'll not pay my Federal taxes. I've already considered different approaches to this. I know several people who don't pay their Federal, just their state. I can no longer support the US for any reason. VA is my nation, not this POS government. Keep on playing stupid Democrat / Republican games. You'll see. Time is ticking.[/quote]


The only thing you will accomplish by not paying your Federal Taxes is a prison sentence.

Also, if you want to talk about wasteful spending look at Fairfax County. I know you living in Varina, the virtual mega center of VA, you may not see how wasteful the smaller counties like Fairfax are.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;677246]The only thing you will accomplish by not paying your Federal Taxes is a prison sentence.

Also, if you want to talk about wasteful spending look at Fairfax County. I know you living in Varina, [B]the virtual mega center of VA[/B], you may not see how wasteful the smaller counties like Fairfax are.[/quote]

We're not stupid enough to pay 300K for a half an acre of former cow pasture in Varina. We'll sell you one though. You people in NOVA may think you're cosmopolitian because you live in cheap overpriced McMansions. We just think your suckers. I used to build those POS houses for 25K and we'd sell them to Yankees for 350K. Some of them in the West End went for 900k. When the market crashed all of you suckers took a bath. So come on down to Richmond. Oh, and bring your money with you. :laughing-

Perhaps I'll go to jail? That's up to a jury. Many people don't pay Federal.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677260]We're not stupid enough to pay 300K for a half an acre of former cow pasture in Varina. We'll sell you one though. You people in NOVA may think you're cosmopolitian because you live in cheap overpriced McMansions. We just think your suckers. I used to build those POS houses for 25K and we'd sell them to Yankees for 350K. Some of them in the West End went for 900k. When the market crashed all of you suckers took a bath. So come on down to Richmond. Oh, and bring your money with you. :laughing-

Perhaps I'll go to jail? That's up to a jury. Many people don't pay Federal.[/quote]


No one called you stupid and I don't live in NOVA. Plus, I can also see you are real estate genius. Ever wonder why a studio in New york goes for what it does, it might just might have something to do with it's location.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677229]If VA doesn't win its lawsuit, I'll not pay my Federal taxes. I've already considered different approaches to this. I know several people who don't pay their Federal, just their state. I can no longer support the US for any reason. VA is my nation, not this POS government. Keep on playing stupid Democrat / Republican games. You'll see. Time is ticking.[/quote]


You talk a tough game but deep down inside you know that we know that you ain't going to do nothing of the sort. Frankly, you're a tough talking pussycat. meowwww.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;677262]No one called you stupid and I don't live in NOVA. Plus, I can also see you are real estate genius. Ever wonder why a studio in New york goes for what it does, it might just might have something to do with it's location.[/quote]

My bank will not give people loans for property in New York City. That's like throwing money strait down the toilet. I get their calls every once in awhile. They drop NYC like it's supposed to impress the bumkins. You should hear them when I tell them, "Sorry, - - -Mortgage isn't going to give you a loan in NEW YORK CITY" New York, Hawaii, and California might as well be ocean liners with three fish in em each. They're going down buddy.

How is Fairfax not in Northern Virginia? Genius? You're probably right, I'm not a real estate genius. I can build and draft a house to code though. Can you?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677272]You talk a tough game but deep down inside you know that we know that you ain't going to do nothing of the sort. Frankly, you're a tough talking pussycat. meowwww.[/quote]

I'm weighing my options. As soon as the Obama signs that POS, VA, FLA, and a few others are filing suit. We already passed a law saying that no Virginian will have to get health insurance if he doesn't want it.

You of all people should know that a lot of people don't pay Federal taxes. You bill yourself as smarter than the average bear. I'm surprised that you didn't know that?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Beemnseven;677202]In a way, the Republicans share much of the blame here. Certainly not on this particular vote, as they all voted against it. But think back to when the GOP had control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. How hard did they fight for Tort Reform? For allowing the purchase of health insurance plans across state lines? For dismantling some of the insane mandates that do nothing but hike the costs?

Nope. The Republicans didn't do any of that -- in fact, they did much worse. They added an unconstitutional, outrageously expensive entitlement of their very own! I'm speaking of the Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization and Improvement Act of 2003.

You have to hand it to the Democrats. When it comes to advancing their agenda, they are much more tenacious than the GOP has ever been. When was the last time the Republicans enacted major legislation that empowers the free market, the individual, that advances capitalism? Apart from some tax cuts here and there, I can't think of any.

As the saying goes, no matter who you vote for, government always gets elected.[/quote]
Nice post . Two parties ... 2 F's ... maybe D* ? As far as capitalism , they have lowered tax rates , income > from 70% to 28 % , cap gains taxes cut in half as well as dividend Taxation .[url=http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html]History of the Income Tax in the United States &mdash; Infoplease.com[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_tax]Dividend tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] . The death Tax ,,,, could hurt millions of small business owners again ....[url=http://wills.about.com/od/understandingestatetaxes/a/futureoftax.htm]What is the Future of the Estate Tax?[/url]. That is the type legilation that screws hard working Americans , so while you made some very good points , some of the Dems agenda costs hard working Americans .... millions .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677276]I'm weighing my options. As soon as the Obama signs that POS, VA, FLA, and a few others are filing suit. We already passed a law saying that no Virginian will have to get health insurance if he doesn't want it.

You of all people should know that a lot of people don't pay Federal taxes. You bill yourself as smarter than the average bear. I'm surprised that you didn't know that?[/quote]

I'm perfectly fine with States enacting laws to prevent their citizens from having to get healthcare coverage if they don't want to...just don't expect to get that federal cheese. The more southern and mid-western states the better, I'll be happy to keep most of that ~90 billion a year all to ourselves.

TTL, there is quite a difference between people who don't make enough money to pay taxes and people who refuse to pay their taxes because of some gripe with the government. You will pay your taxes, you know it, I know it, and there is nothing you can do about it...even moving out of the country may not set you free from federal taxes. Death and Taxes...life certainties. Good luck with cheating Uncle Sam, you're going to need it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677282]I'm perfectly fine with States enacting laws to prevent their citizens from having to get healthcare coverage if they don't want to...just don't expect to get that federal cheese. The more southern and mid-western states the better, I'll be happy to keep most of that ~90 billion a year all to ourselves.

TTL, there is quite a difference between people who don't make enough money to pay taxes and people who refuse to pay their taxes because of some gripe with the government. You will pay your taxes, you know it, I know it, and there is nothing you can do about it...even moving out of the country may not set you free from federal taxes. Death and Taxes...life certainties. Good luck with cheating Uncle Sam, you're going to need it.[/quote]

Actually no, you're wrong. Yes I will pay taxes, to the Commonwealth. I have no beef paying for roads and police, etc. There are a lot of people who have beaten the US in court and don't pay. There are also a few in prison. We'll see.