Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1288312]Herschel Walker running for U.S. Senate in GA.[/QUOTE]


Well he was on the apprentice so he has total legitimacy with the Trump crowd…

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288332]Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position. There is no question now (none!) that the wrong decision was made by both Trump and Biden in surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban (and yes surrender is the right word for it - get used to it too as that term is starting to take hold - see link below). We are paying a high price for their ineptitude and will continue to pay it for years to come.


[url]https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2021/08/24/breaking-hearts-and-minds-the-strategy-of-surrender/[/url][/quote]



First and foremost the decision to leave was and is the right one.The implementation and carrying it out is the problem. To assume people agreed with the wrong position is BS. What was wrong with the plan to withdraw was counting on the afghans to defend their own Country. Again this isn't all Biden or trump this fuck up goes back to every administration since the 80's.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1288357]First and foremost the decision to leave was and is the right one........[/quote]

I'll repeat myself

"Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position".


Goal - Do what is in the best interests of the United States.

There isn't really a question whether it was the wrong decision - It is costing us more to leave (across the board) than it would have if we stayed. The surrender decision was not in the best interests of the United States and thus the wrong decision to make (Events have shown that - laid it out plain as day etc).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1288370]I'll repeat myself



"Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position".





Goal - Do what is in the best interests of the United States.



There isn't really a question whether it was the wrong decision - It is costing us more to leave (across the board) than it would have if we stayed. The surrender decision was not in the best interests of the United States and thus the wrong decision to make (Events have shown that - laid it out plain as day etc).[/QUOTE]That is like giving a grade to a draft before any player has taken the field. The long term interest of the United States is not to be a protectorate or empire building state. The exit/withdrawal/surrender was handled badly. That cost many lives. The decision to stay this long was likely flawed but history will judge.

It may be hard for people to admit they are wrong, but it is also way to early in the end game of Afghanistan to say that leaving was the wrong one.

Time, as always, will be the determining factor in the role the US played in Afghanistan's development.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1288351]Well he was on the apprentice so he has total legitimacy with the Trump crowd…[/quote]

And he's got a serious mental disorder so he's good to go!

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1288371]That is like giving a grade to a draft before any player has taken the field. The long term interest of the United States is not to be a protectorate or empire building state. The exit/withdrawal/surrender was handled badly. That cost many lives. The decision to stay this long was likely flawed but history will judge.

It may be hard for people to admit they are wrong, but it is also way to early in the end game of Afghanistan to say that leaving was the wrong one.

Time, as always, will be the determining factor in the role the US played in Afghanistan's development.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Not really as in this case your #1 draft pick who was on trial for murder (you were hoping he'd be acquitted) was just convicted.

Wrong decision.

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[QUOTE=nonniey;1288373]Not really as in this case your #1 draft pick who was on trial for murder (you were hoping he'd be acquitted) was just convicted.



Wrong decision.[/QUOTE]I hope you will be able to admit it if it turns out you are wrong.

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Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1288372]And he's got a serious mental disorder so he's good to go![/QUOTE]


I heard he also has a God, Guns, and Trump tattoo right across his ass. This could be a rumor, but if true I think we may have the most qualified Republican candidate for Senate in years….maybe ever.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

A Texas law that would ban abortions after as early as six weeks is poised to take effect Wednesday, after a federal appellate court's rulings stymied efforts to block the law.

On Friday night, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals canceled a hearing planned for Monday, at which more than 20 abortion providers had hoped to persuade a federal district court in Austin to block the law from taking effect.

Providers have sued to overturn the law, which they say is the nation's strictest and would create what they call a “bounty hunting scheme” in allowing members of the general public to sue those who might have violated the law. The law, Senate Bill 8, would prohibit abortions after cardiac activity can be detected without specifying a time frame. This can be as early as six weeks’ gestation, before many women know they are pregnant. The term “fetal heartbeat” is considered a misnomer because an embryo doesn’t possess a heart at that point.

[url]https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/29/texas-abortion-law-5th-circuit-court/[/url]

(CNN)A Texas state law that bans abortion after as early as six weeks into the pregnancy could provide the playbook for red states to pass extreme abortion restrictions -- without having to wait for the Supreme Court to revisit Roe v. Wade.
The measure -- signed into law by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott in May and set to go into effect on Wednesday -- prohibits abortion providers from conducting abortions once a fetal heartbeat is detected. It would effectively outlaw at least 85% of the abortions sought in the state, according to opponents of the law, since that point is around six weeks into the pregnancy, before some women know they're pregnant.
The law was passed amid a slew of restrictions that were approved by GOP legislatures across the country this year, after the confirmation of Justice Amy Coney Barrett jerked the Supreme Court further to right and made it more likely that the court will scale back or reverse entirely Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 decision that enshrined a constitutional right to an abortion before the fetus is viable.

But among those restrictions, the Texas bill stands out for the novel approach it takes in curtailing the procedure.

228 GOP lawmakers call on Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade
228 GOP lawmakers call on Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade
Rather than imposing a criminal or regulatory punishment for those who conduct abortions after the point in the pregnancy, the state law created a so-called "private right of action" to enforce the restriction. Essentially, the legislature deputized private citizens to bring civil litigation -- with the threat of $10,000 or more in damages -- against providers or even anyone who helped a woman access an abortion after six weeks.

"The way the bill is structured incentivizes vigilante lawsuits that will harass abortion providers and those who support providing abortions in Texas," Adriana Piñon, an attorney at the Texas chapter of ACLU, told CNN.
The approach was aimed at insulating the law from the sort of federal legal challenges that would prevent it from going into effect. One such lawsuit -- brought by several clinics represented by the ACLU and other groups -- is now mired in a complicated procedural dispute that has prompted the clinics to ask for a Supreme Court intervention.

[url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/politics/texas-six-week-abortion-ban-supreme-court-explainer/index.html[/url]

Feels like an Onion article.

Interesting to see how this plays out. Kinda crappy for the Texas 5th Circuit to sit on it then cancel the hearing at the last moment.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Abortions are officially banned in Texas as of midnight last night.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288721]Abortions are officially banned in Texas as of midnight last night.[/quote]

6 weeks is a step too far, 18-20 weeks would be reasonable and probably have a good chance of winning in court this 6 week restriction will eventually be overturned.

Frustrating that the most extreme elements on both sides are the ones that actually get their policies implemented on this issue (Vermont is the other extreme).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288723]6 weeks is a step too far, 18-20 weeks would be reasonable and probably have a good chance of winning in court this 6 week restriction will eventually be overturned.

Frustrating that the most extreme elements on both sides are the ones that actually get their policies implemented on this issue (Vermont is the other extreme).[/quote]

6 weeks is a total ban.

Plus it encourages citizens to sue other citizens with a bounty of at least 10k ... this is absurd. How does some random person have standing to sue another random person?

Justice Alito sat on this.

The far right are always screaming a D wants to take your guns away. Far left scream a R wants to abolish abortion.

We always "that wont happen, dont worry about some extreme hypothetical used to scare voters" ...

Well it happened.

Having a hard time not thinking bad thoughts about the religious right.

America is not supposed to be a therocracy. Religious political activism is not cool.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288726]6 weeks is a total ban.

Plus it encourages citizens to sue other citizens with a bounty of at least 10k ... this is absurd. How does some random person have standing to sue another random person?

Justice Alito sat on this.

The far right are always screaming a D wants to take your guns away. Far left scream a R wants to abolish abortion.

We always "that wont happen, dont worry about some extreme hypothetical used to scare voters" ...

Well it happened.

Having a hard time not thinking bad thoughts about the religious right.

America is not supposed to be a therocracy. Religious political activism is not cool.[/quote]

I support 18 week but yes I agree - 6 weeks is effectively a total ban.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1288327]I am really torn, overall I supported exiting Afghanistan, but at the same point we still have troops in Europe 75 years after WWII. The main difference I guess is that Europe had functioning governments that chose to stay connected not puppet governments. If people in any country choose not to defend themselves and create a stable form of government, then we can't count that cost of exiting as anything but the acceptance that we are not an empire, world police organization, or dictatorship; and we should have left long ago.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I think it was the right decision but bad planning. All of our allies should have been evacuated before a reduced military presence. I have read a lot recently that the Afghan people not really happy with the government the US established and that in and of itself is part of the collapse. I will confess after 9/11 I was more than okay with the decision to go into Afghanistan. As time went on, we killed Bin Laden and still didn't leave I began to question why we were ever there.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288726]6 weeks is a total ban.

Plus it encourages citizens to sue other citizens with a bounty of at least 10k ... this is absurd. How does some random person have standing to sue another random person?

Justice Alito sat on this.

The far right are always screaming a D wants to take your guns away. Far left scream a R wants to abolish abortion.

We always "that wont happen, dont worry about some extreme hypothetical used to scare voters" ...

Well it happened.

Having a hard time not thinking bad thoughts about the religious right.

America is not supposed to be a therocracy. Religious political activism is not cool.[/quote]


Not only do random citizens get a $10k reward the accused have to pay their legal fees. There is no reciprocity if you are wrongly accused.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288723][B]6 weeks is a step too far[/B], 18-20 weeks would be reasonable and probably have a good chance of winning in court this 6 week restriction will eventually be overturned.

Frustrating that the most extreme elements on both sides are the ones that actually get their policies implemented on this issue (Vermont is the other extreme).[/quote]

Agree

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1288723][B]6 weeks is a step too far, 18-20 weeks would be reasonable[/B] and probably have a good chance of winning in court this 6 week restriction will eventually be overturned.

Frustrating that the most extreme elements on both sides are the ones that actually get their policies implemented on this issue (Vermont is the other extreme).[/quote]

Agreed.

The problem is now we have to rely on a SCOTUS with a 6-3 anti-abortion majority to say that this terrible law infringes on a woman's right to abortion.

It's already a red flag they declined to do anything after Monday.

The religious right only cares about babies when they're inside the womb.

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The GOP is a fucking joke. A sick, disgusting, outdated, old, white joke.

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Can't believe "conservatives" here are having a discussion about when killing a baby is OK or not OK. Like there is some sort of magic drop-dead date.

Abortions have and always will be targeted towards minorities by the way. So if you are a white liberal who constantly pretends like you are the great white hope for all non-white people, please fucking spare me. Abortions kill way more non-white people, than all other deaths combined, in America every year. And it's promoted by democrats like the future of America depends on aborting babies.

[url]https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/25/abortion-the-overlooked-tragedy-for-black-americans/[/url]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288739]Can't believe "conservatives" here are having a discussion about when killing a baby is OK or not OK. Like there is some sort of magic drop-dead date.

Abortions have and always will be targeted towards minorities by the way. So if you are a white liberal who constantly pretends like you are the great white hope for all non-white people, please fucking spare me. Abortions kill way more non-white people, than all other deaths combined, in America every year. And it's promoted by democrats like the future of America depends on aborting babies.

[url]https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/25/abortion-the-overlooked-tragedy-for-black-americans/[/url][/quote]

I feel like abortion is a conversation about a woman's right to choose, and you're trying to make into a conversation about minorities (not sure what your exact point is).

You say targeted - how do abortion providers target minorities? I say people have sex and the woman gets pregnant and decides she doesn't want to keep the baby - sure maybe the demographics are tilted towards minorities - but I care about the existing and alive woman's right to choose - not towards a non-sentient fetus.

I wish you cared half as much about the young kids in this country that need help (illegal alien or not) as you do about an embryo in the womb.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288741]I feel like abortion is a conversation about a woman's right to choose, and you're trying to make into a conversation about minorities (not sure what your exact point is).

You say targeted - how do abortion providers target minorities? I say people have sex and the woman gets pregnant and decides she doesn't want to keep the baby - sure maybe the demographics are tilted towards minorities - but I care about the existing and alive woman's right to choose - not towards a non-sentient fetus.

[B]I wish you cared half as much about the young kids in this country that need help (illegal alien or not) as you do about an embryo in the womb.[/B][/quote]

I'll respond to the rest tomorrow because it needs lots of words. To the bold part, you have no fucking clue what I care about, so fuck you on that one.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288742]I'll respond to the rest tomorrow because it needs lots of words. To the bold part, you have no fucking clue what I care about, so fuck you on that one.[/quote]

I think you summed up your position pretty well.

Abortion - bad.

Sorry it's come to this. I will always prioritize the well-being of an existing woman over an unborn fetus. If you support this shit law that literally encourages and rewards nosy assholes to pry into their neighbor's behavior fuck you too.

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/supreme-court-refuses-to-block-restrictive-texas-abortion-law.html[/url]

Why don't we just go ahead and rewrite the constitution so the basis of our republic is intertwined between church and state.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288721]Abortions are officially banned in Texas as of midnight last night.[/quote]

shit hole of a state

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[QUOTE=MTK;1288747]shit hole of a state[/QUOTE]

Lol, this is a recurring theme. Don't do things I personally agree with = you're a shithole

The importance liberals put on killing babies is so weird.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1288746]I think you summed up your position pretty well.

Abortion - bad.

Sorry it's come to this. I will always prioritize the well-being of an existing woman over an unborn fetus. If you support this shit law that literally encourages and rewards nosy assholes to pry into their neighbor's behavior fuck you too.

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/supreme-court-refuses-to-block-restrictive-texas-abortion-law.html[/url]

Why don't we just go ahead and rewrite the constitution so the basis of our republic is intertwined between church and state.[/quote]

You use the word "religion" and we all know you mean Christian like we're some sort of plague. If you're Christian you can't have an opinion. Godless people are the best, they should make all decisions.

And I didn't say fuck you, I said fuck you on that one, where you presume to know what I care about. Then you double down on speaking for me.

If my opinion is abortion bad, yours is abortion good. I'd much rather be on the side of actual life not some BS like well-being.

And as a note - I don't agree with allowing tattle-tales to make money off of being rats.

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Calling a weeks old fetus a baby is so weird if you ask me.

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Roe is established law. When the Rs stole a SC seat, this was the fear. That they would use religion to guide their decisions .. by placing very religious justices on the bench.

The SCOTUS is becoming a farce by playing games. By taking no action and allowing Roe to be de facto overruled in Texas is playing games.

Keep your religious beliefs out of our democracy.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288755]Calling a weeks old fetus a baby is so weird if you ask me.[/quote]

If a fetus isn't a human how does it turn into a human? We're all constantly in different stages of human-life until we die. I find it weird that people act like they're not human, if you ask me.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288756]Roe is established law. When the Rs stole a SC seat, this was the fear. That they would use religion to guide their decisions .. by placing very religious justices on the bench.

The SCOTUS is becoming a farce by playing games. By taking no action and allowing Roe to be de facto overruled in Texas is playing games.

Keep your religious beliefs out of our democracy.[/quote]

Just come out and say it, Christian's shouldn't be allowed in politics. Only atheist should rule us, because they are so pure.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Lotta folks stoking fear by claim Roe is overturned. This is not the case and misinformation

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288758]Just come out and say it, Christian's shouldn't be allowed in politics. Only atheist should rule us, because they are so pure.[/quote]

dude ... thats not what I said. But you know that.

Theres no point reading what you have to say if youre going to be irrational and acting in bad faith.

Have a good one SD. Enjoy that beautiful SD weather for all of us.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288755]Calling a weeks old fetus a baby is so weird if you ask me.[/quote]

I think there is some middle ground. Certainly aboarding child on date of birth is murder.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288761]I think there is some middle ground. Certainly aboarding child on date of birth is murder.[/quote]

No doubt there's some middle ground. Texas however is not agreeing to any middle ground right now.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288757]If a fetus isn't a human how does it turn into a human? We're all constantly in different stages of human-life until we die. I find it weird that people act like they're not human, if you ask me.[/quote]

Now you're moving the goal posts. You called it a baby so that's what I was responding to.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288756]Roe is established law. When the Rs stole a SC seat, this was the fear. That they would use religion to guide their decisions .. by placing very religious justices on the bench.

The SCOTUS is becoming a farce by playing games. By taking no action and allowing Roe to be de facto overruled in Texas is playing games.

Keep your religious beliefs out of our democracy.[/quote]

Religious protection under law…it’s a good thing. But you can’t sit here and say this rant when just months ago Barrett refused to hear whatever harassment of the left is doing to the cake making guy case.

U admit he is under harassment from these lame ass lgbtqisjfjth groups right? Suit after suit…this sits ok with you?

Religion is under assault right now.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288761]I think there is some middle ground. Certainly aboarding child on date of birth is murder.[/quote]

Vast majority think somewhere btw 18-24 weeks is a fair balance. Gives the woman enough time to discover the pregnancy and make a decision before the fetus turns too much into a viable fetus.

Technically Roe is not overturned but this is equivalent to a State banning ammo. You can still own guns. Your right to bear arms is still entact but theres no where to buy ammo just like the abortion clinics in Texas arent performing abortions right now.

All those liberals screaming Kav and Amy would take away a womans right to an abortion have been proven correct.

SCOTUS has failed to protect federal and Constitutional law. They are now playing current climate politics. The SCOTUS is derelict of duty imo.

Will Constitutional and settled law now change each time the bench does? With the SCOTUS decisions leaning whichever way their political appointees want them to?

Im disappointed.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1288763]Now you're moving the goal posts. You called it a baby so that's what I was responding to.[/quote]

A baby is a human. Wasn't moving any goalposts.

I'll revise:

If a fetus isn't a baby how does it turn into a baby? We're all constantly in different stages of human-life, starting at formation, until we die. I find it weird that people act like they're not babies, if you ask me.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1288764]Religious protection under law…it’s a good thing. But you can’t sit here and say this rant when just months ago Barrett refused to hear whatever harassment of the left is doing to the cake making guy case.

U admit he is under harassment from these lame ass lgbtqisjfjth groups right? Suit after suit…this sits ok with you?

Religion is under assault right now.[/quote]

Youre bringing up other things and doing "whataboutism".

Me personally Ive said repeatedly I dont think the cake baker should be required to make a special cake as that calls into his subjective artistic ability. I thought the cake baker was very reasonable. he showed them cake he had already made and offered to sell them any of those.

I dont support the short haired butch lesbian antifa side. Most democrats dont support defund the police or ACAB or antifa.

Religion is and should be protected. You shouldnt be discriminated against for religion, gender, color, race, sexual preference.

-------------------

Religious views should not be used to make and enforce laws. Amy and Brett both took an oath to uphold the law of the US and not put their religious beliefs before the law.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1288766]A baby is a human. Wasn't moving any goalposts.

I'll revise:

If a fetus isn't a baby how does it turn into a baby? We're all constantly in different stages of human-life, starting at formation, until we die. I find it weird that people act like they're not babies, if you ask me.[/quote]

I'll just respectfully bow out here. Like Chico was saying, there's a middle ground here. Texas is not allowing for that and that's the problem. Often times a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant within 6 weeks. It's just not a reasonable situation.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1288760]dude ... thats not what I said. But you know that.

Theres no point reading what you have to say if youre going to be irrational and acting in bad faith.

Have a good one SD. Enjoy that beautiful SD weather for all of us.[/quote]

If you assign being against abortion as being religious and then say religion has no place in decision making, you are effectively saying people that are religious shouldn't have a say.