Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632670]I hear ya, but [I]I am one of those that believe that Gibbs mentored Williams to be the HC.[/I] When Taylor died the players seemed to be bonded to Williams, especially when he did the 10 players on the field thing and his use of comcast to motivate his players.
Snyder really blew it as a owner on that one.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Gibbs [I]didn't[/I] endorse Williams to Snyder and thats probably why Snyder chose to go in a different direction - because of Gibbs' advice. Williams was a failure in Buffalo as a HC and revealed alot about his character by only playing 10 men on the field in the 1st game after ST died and NOT telling his boss - Joe Gibbs - about it in advance.

Put yourself in Gibbs' and Snyder's shoes - why on earth would you [I]promote[/I] someone who was so [U]blatantly insubordinate[/U]? How could you trust someone like that to continue in their current role, let alone give them [i]more[/i] authority? The answer is simple - you wouldn't. I'm sure that wasn't the only factor that played into the decision, but i'm sure it contributed to it.

It would be hard to argue that this team would be worse off with Williams - or anyone else that was available to us after Gibbs retired - than it has been under Zorn, but Williams certainly wouldn't have been the long-term answer here. And our defense has actually [I]improved[/I] under Blache. I'm sorry, but Williams would not have been a good HC here and he'll never be a good HC anywhere in the league. Some guys are just not cut out for HC jobs.

Re: Our next coach??
 

Gibbs thought Williams would be a fine candidate, but never flat out told Snyder "This is the guy you have to hire." I personally think Williams should be afforded a second chance to be a head coach (as I understand it, there were some significant off the field issues in Buffalo but if you give players second chances...), and it probably should have been here. I don't know that he'd be a good head coach, which requires a lot more than being a coordinator.

Still, Williams wouldn't have solved our problem of offensive playcalling and execution. Some reports have said he would have kept Al Saunders, but I've heard others say he wanted to go in a different direction because he didn't feel like Saunders' style of offense would help his defense out.

Anyway, at the end of the day what ultimately did in Williams was that Snyder made the decision to entrust all football authority to Vinny Cerrato. And Cerrato didn't want Williams and Williams didn't want to report to Cerrato.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632814]Gibbs thought Williams would be a fine candidate, but never flat out told Snyder "This is the guy you have to hire." I personally think Williams should be afforded a second chance to be a head coach (as I understand it, there were some significant off the field issues in Buffalo but if you give players second chances...), and it probably should have been here. I don't know that he'd be a good head coach, which requires a lot more than being a coordinator.

Still, Williams wouldn't have solved our problem of offensive playcalling and execution. Some reports have said he would have kept Al Saunders, but I've heard others say he wanted to go in a different direction because he didn't feel like Saunders' style of offense would help his defense out.

Anyway, at the end of the day what ultimately did in Williams was that Snyder made the decision to entrust all football authority to Vinny Cerrato. And Cerrato didn't want Williams and Williams didn't want to report to Cerrato.[/quote]

i've also read that Williams didn't want Campbell, whom he viewed as a "coach killer." I give Williams credit for that. He was on the money, there.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632821]i've also read that Williams didn't want Campbell, whom he viewed as a "coach killer." I give Williams credit for that. He was on the money, there.[/quote]

I think Vinny is more of a coach killer right now than Campbell.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;632822]I think Vinny is more of a coach killer right now than Campbell.[/quote]

in that sense, Williams was right on both points.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632366]He was only joking about every play he called being a failure...but he did call the plays at the end of the game
[/quote]

Kevin actually asked Zorn about this on the Jim Zorn show today. Zorn said he called all the plays in the final drives of both halves.

[B][U]From NFL.com - First Half[/U][/B]

Washington Redskins at 00:49
1-10-WAS 35 (:42) (Shotgun) PENALTY on WAS-76-L.Jones, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 35 - No Play. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

1-15-WAS 30 (:41) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short left to 31-R.Cartwright pushed ob at WAS 40 for 10 yards (52-T.White). [COLOR="Green"][B] PARTIAL SUCCESS[/B][/COLOR]

2-5-WAS 40 (:35) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short left to 11-D.Thomas to WAS 37 for -3 yards (24-S.Brown). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:28.
3-8-WAS 37 (:28) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short right intended for 11-D.Thomas INTERCEPTED by 22-A.Samuel [58-T.Cole] at WAS 45. 22-A.Samuel to WAS 28 for 17 yards (11-D.Thomas). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]


[B][U]From NFL.com - Second Half[/U][/B]

1-10-WAS 16 (1:44) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short left to 11-D.Thomas [58-T.Cole]. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

2-10-WAS 16 (1:39) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep middle to 86-F.Davis. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

3-10-WAS 16 (1:33) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 82-A.Randle El to WAS 25 for 9 yards (35-V.Harris). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

4-1-WAS 25 (1:09) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to 89-S.Moss [75-J.Parker]. WAS-17-J.Campbell was injured during the play. His return is Doubtful. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

So of the 8 plays that Zorn admitted to calling, 7 of them were complete failures. When you consider the goal of both drives was to score before the half expired, all 8 plays can be considered failures as they did not result in the redskins putting points on the board. Granted, Zorn only calls the plays - he doesn't execute them, but the fact remains that, for whatever reason, the team executed better when Zorn wasn't calling plays.

I would be interested in knowing how many of the plays/drives that have succeeded since Sherm took over the majority of the playcalling duties (and our offense started gelling) can be attributed to Zorn. I certainly doubt very many.

Re: Our next coach??
 

That makes sense since Zorn calls the two-minute drills. A two-minute/4th down (Zorn) vs. passing plays (Sherman Lewis) vs. running plays (Sherman Smith) break-down would be interesting but would have so many caveats it'd be tough to pull off. Plus Lewis would have to factor into the running plays also because he tells Smith when to call a running play.

And a lot of people seem to be saying Chris Meidt is playing as critical a role as anyone in calling the offense.

This clearly tells me that our next head coach should be Jermis Zolesmidt

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;632838]Kevin actually asked Zorn about this on the Jim Zorn show today. Zorn said he called all the plays in the final drives of both halves.

[B][U]From NFL.com - First Half[/U][/B]

Washington Redskins at 00:49
1-10-WAS 35 (:42) (Shotgun) PENALTY on WAS-76-L.Jones, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 35 - No Play. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

1-15-WAS 30 (:41) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short left to 31-R.Cartwright pushed ob at WAS 40 for 10 yards (52-T.White). [COLOR="Green"][B] PARTIAL SUCCESS[/B][/COLOR]

2-5-WAS 40 (:35) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short left to 11-D.Thomas to WAS 37 for -3 yards (24-S.Brown). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:28.
3-8-WAS 37 (:28) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short right intended for 11-D.Thomas INTERCEPTED by 22-A.Samuel [58-T.Cole] at WAS 45. 22-A.Samuel to WAS 28 for 17 yards (11-D.Thomas). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]


[B][U]From NFL.com - Second Half[/U][/B]

1-10-WAS 16 (1:44) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short left to 11-D.Thomas [58-T.Cole]. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

2-10-WAS 16 (1:39) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep middle to 86-F.Davis. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

3-10-WAS 16 (1:33) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 82-A.Randle El to WAS 25 for 9 yards (35-V.Harris). [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

4-1-WAS 25 (1:09) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to 89-S.Moss [75-J.Parker]. WAS-17-J.Campbell was injured during the play. His return is Doubtful. [COLOR="Red"][B]FAIL[/B][/COLOR]

So of the 8 plays that Zorn admitted to calling, 7 of them were complete failures. When you consider the goal of both drives was to score before the half expired, all 8 plays can be considered failures as they did not result in the redskins putting points on the board. Granted, Zorn only calls the plays - he doesn't execute them, but the fact remains that, for whatever reason, the team executed better when Zorn wasn't calling plays.

I would be interested in knowing how many of the plays/drives that have succeeded since Sherm took over the majority of the playcalling duties (and our offense started gelling) can be attributed to Zorn. I certainly doubt very many.[/quote]

But this doesn't explain why those plays failed. My recollection is that most of them failed because there was little protection from the O-line. At some point, a coach has to rely on the line to provide adequate protection -- especially when it is a final drive with little time remaining and you're behind. I am not sure I would blame these failures on playcalling.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632841]That makes sense since Zorn calls the two-minute drills. A two-minute/4th down (Zorn) vs. passing plays (Sherman Lewis) vs. running plays (Sherman Smith) break-down would be interesting but would have so many caveats it'd be tough to pull off. Plus Lewis would have to factor into the running plays also because he tells Smith when to call a running play.

And a lot of people seem to be saying Chris Meidt is playing as critical a role as anyone in calling the offense.

This clearly tells me that our next head coach should be [B]Jermis Zolesmidt[/B][/quote]

Who?

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632841]That makes sense since Zorn calls the two-minute drills. A two-minute/4th down (Zorn) vs. passing plays (Sherman Lewis) vs. running plays (Sherman Smith) break-down would be interesting but would have so many caveats it'd be tough to pull off. Plus Lewis would have to factor into the running plays also because he tells Smith when to call a running play.

And a lot of people seem to be saying Chris Meidt is playing as critical a role as anyone in calling the offense.

This clearly tells me that our next head coach should be Jermis Zolesmidt[/quote]

Hearing Cooley explain the process today he was almost laughing at one point.

I'm actually surprised that the process has gone as smoothly as it has, but honestly the fact that Sherman Lewis has little to no communication with Campbell is amazing to me.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;632846]Hearing Cooley explain the process today he was almost laughing at one point.

I'm actually surprised that the process has gone as smoothly as it has, but honestly the fact that Sherman Lewis has little to no communication with Campbell is amazing to me.[/quote]

I think in a way it's good. You'd see and hear Zorn on the sidelines and it was like he spent most of his time coaching Campbell during the game. That's not what he should be doing as the head coach. Come game time let Campbell play the game, that's not the time to be working on technique and fundamentals, in my opinion.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632847]I think in a way it's good. You'd see and hear Zorn on the sidelines and it was like he spent most of his time coaching Campbell during the game. That's not what he should be doing as the head coach. Come game time let Campbell play the game, that's not the time to be working on technique and fundamentals, in my opinion.[/quote]

Yeah I see that point. My take is you would think that in order for everyone to be on the same page, there would be some level of face to face communication going on between the guy calling the plays, and the person who ultimately runs them.

I'm not saying it's necessary for Lewis to talk with JC during the game, but the fact they don't talk at all during the week during the installation of the game plan is just very odd to me.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632841]That makes sense since Zorn calls the two-minute drills. A two-minute/4th down (Zorn) vs. passing plays (Sherman Lewis) vs. running plays (Sherman Smith) break-down would be interesting but would have so many caveats it'd be tough to pull off. Plus Lewis would have to factor into the running plays also because he tells Smith when to call a running play.

And a lot of people seem to be saying Chris Meidt is playing as critical a role as anyone in calling the offense.

This clearly tells me that our next head coach should be Jermis Zolesmidt[/quote]

lol! ive heard thet same thing about Chris. If we keep a WCO and don't hire Shanahan, perhaps the new coach would consider keeping chris around. If not, i'm sure he'll find work elsewhere. he plays a crucial role in managing a chaotic playcalling setup...

my main feeling is that there are too many people involved in the process. I understand that Zorn likes to call plays and this is probably the last chance he'll ever have to do it, but i'd bet we'd have better success (and perhaps even won the past 2 games... keeping us alive in the wildcard hunt) if Zorn didn't interject himself in the process. It no doubt breaks whatever flow the other playcallers have going.

Re: Our next coach??
 

what if chris meidt is being groomed to be the next OC/play caller? I think Zorn could be a HC, he has kept this team performing, but his playcalling skills seem inadequate. I like Sherm Lewis, but he most certainly is a stop gap solution, so if we end up not blowing it up, but instead giving one more year with a pledge of really fixing the OL through draft/FA, maybe Meidt becomes OC/ and the Sherms are the sacrificial lambs on the offensive side of the ball. With Blache retiring our staff would look like this:
HC - Zorn
OC - Meidt - Full play calling duties
DC - Gray
ST - Smith

With a FO where VC is reduced and Marty or Holmgren are brought in as GM.

I am not sure how this would work, but I think I would see this positively.

Re: Our next coach??
 

I can't think of many GM/President candidates who would be willing to come in and generally keep the status quo. You're probably talking about reaching for someone like Steve Mariucci (but that's a big reach). Or promoting someone from within.

Meidt might stay but overall I think if Zorn goes (and Vinny goes) there will be some serious housecleaning