Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616597]McNabb left the same play on the field and he has been in the same offense for years. 6 sacks, no running still, and ARE turnover but JC is to blame.[/quote]
It happens man, every QB does this some, but it's worth pointing out with Campbell because it's so frequent and often to the younger guys.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616618]No running game. The Entire Oline needs replacing. So what is the answer T. Collins don't make me laugh[/quote]

The answer for the redskins is definitely not JC. You don't have to listen to me, listen to virtually every analyst on TV. You guys that defend Campbell's play this season make ME laugh.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;616626]Steve Young was trying to blame the tip at the line INT on Campbell. Unfortunately, he couldn't think of a word long enough to defend that position.[/quote]

No offense (well, maybe just a little) - but I would go with Steve Young over you for qb analysis any day.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;616670]No offense (well, maybe just a little) - but I would go with Steve Young over you for qb analysis any day.[/quote]None taken.

I'd go with Matt Millen over you.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=gtripp0012;616674]none taken.

I'd go with matt millen over you.[/quote]

lol!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I told you. He is done. They're all done. I'm looking forward to seeing Vinny go. If he doesn't hit the bricks I . . . . . Actually, I don't think I'd give a damn. Yup, I don't think I'd really care. These schmucks haven't earned
anything from me. How about those Saints!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

You guys are funny. Look at the league, ever successful QB, except Flacco and Ryan have been in the same Offensive system for long periods of time. Changing everything every year has not worked yet nor will it ever. The longer the QB is in the same system the more successful he is...look it up.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616691]You guys are funny. Look at the league, ever successful QB, except Flacco and Ryan have been in the same Offensive system for long periods of time. Changing everything every year has not worked yet nor will it ever. The longer the QB is in the same system the more successful he is...look it up.[/quote]

No, we're not funny. That BS football game was funny. It was a riot. :rofl:

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616691]You guys are funny. Look at the league, ever successful QB, except Flacco and Ryan have been in the same Offensive system for long periods of time. Changing everything every year has not worked yet nor will it ever. The longer the QB is in the same system the more successful he is...look it up.[/quote]

Well our coach will most likely change, so there goes continuity. New coach will mean new QB.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616691]You guys are funny. Look at the league, ever successful QB, except Flacco and Ryan have been in the same Offensive system for long periods of time. Changing everything every year has not worked yet nor will it ever. The longer the QB is in the same system the more successful he is...look it up.[/quote]
you're leaving a couple names off of some players having good years less than 3 years in the system

orton, schaub, henne is showing promise but too early to call it,

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;616701]Well our coach will most likely change, so there goes continuity. New coach will mean new QB.[/quote]

New QB means at least two more years of losing. New QB + learning a new Offense + bad O-Line = New Coach which brings us to our current position again.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=tryfuhl;616707]you're leaving a couple names off of some players having good years less than 3 years in the system

orton, schaub, henne is showing promise but too early to call it,[/quote]

Yup, Brady and Roethlisberger also come to mind (in their 1st couple of years).

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I was a JC supporter all the way this season but he has regressed this year. I know his line sucks but he is not the leader you need at the QB position. JC is to laid back and just does not have that take charge approach we need for the offense. Give me a leader at QB that can get in the players ass when they fuk up a play. Our coach even is to soft , we need Gruden to get this team to have a attitude.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

UPDATED stats/assessment...yep, another week!

Cutler:
WK 7 - 26/37 (70.3%), 251 yds, 1 TD, [B]3 INT[/B], 70.3 rating, 4 rush yds, 0 hot dogs eaten
TOTAL: 136/209 (65.1%), 1,452 yds, 11 TD, 10 INT, 82.9 rating, 60 rush yds, 0 hot dogs eaten

Sanchez:
WK 7 - 9/15 (60.0%), 143 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT, 114.0 rating, 4 rush yds, 1 hot dog eaten
TOTAL: 91/178 (52.8%), 1,178 yds, 6 TD, 10 INT, 61.5 rating, 54 rush yds, 1 hot dog eaten

Campbell:
WK 7 - 29/43 (67.4%), 284 yds, 2 TD, 1 INT, 91.6 rating, 8 rush yds, 0 hot dogs eaten
TOTAL: 136/206 (66.0%), 1,481 yds, 8 TD, 7 INT, 85.8 rating, 103 rush yds, 0 hot dogs eaten


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campbell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campbell (1,481) Cutler (1,452) Campbell (1,197), Sanchez (1,178)
TDs = Cutler (11), Campbell (8), Sanchez (6)
INTs (fewest) = Campbell (7), Sanchez (10) [B]Cutler (11)[/B]
QB rating = Campbell (85.8), Cutler (82.9), Sanchez (61.5)
Rush yds = Campbell (103), Cutler (60), Sanchez(54)


Week 7 Campbell overview:
He literally had no time to throw, was getting pounded all night. Yes he made some mistakes, forced by the pressure but let's examine those mistakes. There were 3 turnovers:

*The INT returned for a TD: On this play, Campbell took a 3-step drop and had defenders and their hands in his face...it was a designed quick slant play with no time to change his mind. 3 steps back and fire. This is a pass that should have been possible with such a quick drop, but the pushback of the line, along with the inability of our offensive line to keep the defenders hands down on such a basic play, doomed the pass. It was batted and picked due to the lack of any blocking by the line. Yes, Campbell threw the pass, no he did not throw a bad pass.

*The fumble on a scramble: Campbell gets the blame for not securing the ball or sliding. He's made some huge runs when plays break down over his career, but with this O-line, he's running for his life on every play. With a competent line, he wouldn't have to scramble and try to avoid sacks all night. He was sacked 6 times, but stepped out of and avoided many more. If Collins or a less mobile QB were in, the Eagles would have reached double-digit sacks. The one play that really impressed me was in the second half when Campbell ducked under a defender that was dropping back literally in step with him...immediately after the snap. Campbell avoided and escaped the defender and found a wide open Devin Thomas, who also made a nice run after the catch to pick up a long first down.

*The fumble on a snap: Rabach is a horrible center, it is as simple as that. He cost us TDs in the past with stupid penalties and mistakes and he hasn't stopped. I noticed all night when we were in the shotgun, which was refreshing to see after watching Zorn under-utilize this formation, Rabach's snaps were usually off. This snap was particularly bad and wide. It's tough to blame Campbell too much as we watched Rabach's play all night. Later in the game, we had the ball on 4th and goal. Shotgun formation was called, but Rabach snapped the ball as if Campbell was under center. Since it was 4th down, even if we fell on the ball, it's a turnover on downs. The worst part about that play, Devin Thomas was wide open, uncovered in the corner of the endzone. All Rabach had to do was get the ball in JC's hands and it was a TD. We would have been able to cut the score to 3 POINTS!

For the night, Campbell finished with 284 yards and 2 TDs, which should have easily been 3 as I just explained. He finished with nearly double the yards as McNabb despite the lack of ANY protection all night and losing his favorite target in Chris Cooley to a broken ankle/foot. You may call the very successful 4th-quarter drives "garbage time", but I disagree. He showed leadership and if not for Rabach, would have brought the Skins back to within 3 points. That's not called "garbage time", that's called a comeback. Philly was still playing their starters, even McNabb despite the pressure and hits our defense was getting on him, this was still a competitive game.

I was very impressed by Sherman Lewis and his playcalling. The Redskins moved the ball very well with him calling the shots. Of course we won't be racking up rushing yards with this O-line, but we moved the ball better than any game so far this season and nearly scored 3 offensive TDs, plus a short FG that could have been a 4th TD if we were not playing semi-conservatively under Lewis' first game called. This gives me evidence that Campbell can excel for this team with some protection and a playcaller not named Jim Zorn. Campbell had some mistakes. Any QB would be forced into mistakes with zero protection against an aggressive blitzing defense all night. He turned many broken plays into positive plays however and showed he can take even this broken offense down the field. I am pleased to say that for the first time this season, I was not embarrassed by the team's performance overall. Sure, a few boneheaded plays by Rabach and Randel El made me wonder what was happening, but the offense was dramatically improved under Lewis' leadership and the defense played incredibly except for 2 long plays by DeSean Jackson, but let's face it, that kid is a player you just hope to contain....he can't be shut down with his blazing speed.

Cutler racked up some nice yardage but threw 3 INTs. Sanchez was not used (or trusted?) against the Raiders, as the Jets racked up 300 rushing yards. He does lead the league in hot dogs eaten on the sideline though.

Campbell now leads the 3 QBs in EVERY category except for TDs thrown, but he also has the fewest INTs.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Campbell saw the guy coming, but batted passes do happen. If I recall correctly Moss didn't even have a shot at the ball either had it gotten through.

I know why you're comparing him to Sanchez, but it's an unfair comparison to Sanchez.. Cutler doesn't have a lot to work with either but that's his fault for being a baby.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=tryfuhl;616910]Campbell saw the guy coming, but batted passes do happen. If I recall correctly Moss didn't even have a shot at the ball either had it gotten through.

I know why you're comparing him to Sanchez, but it's an unfair comparison to Sanchez.. Cutler doesn't have a lot to work with either but that's his fault for being a baby.[/quote]

Hey, if we had brought in Sanchez, we'd have a rookie that the stats and film show is less mobile than Campbell to get killed behind this line, while trying to learn the system from Zorn, who apparently may not be the best teacher.

If we brought in Cutler, same story, a cannon arm like Campbell but no protection and he's not a runner either. The INT totals would probably be even greater with the Skins rather than the Bears, with no upgrade over Campbell.


I am keeping this thread running because it shows that we're not only better off with Campbell than the other two rumored Redskin QBs, he's actually performing better with much less to work with, as the stats show. He's leading them all in nearly every category. As the title says, Campbell's numbers don't lie.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

With this OL honestly it wouldn't matter who is playing QB. Still, the future for JC with this team looks bleak at best.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I don't think campbell is to blame alone but I do think its painfully clear he cannot handle the pressures of being a starting QB in the NFL (at least without a great line). It could be that we (the redskins) killed him (with a crappy line) but i'm no longer willing to make excuses for him (as I have in the past). He doesn't seem to be improving (when he was before).
In my opinion, for JC to thrive he needs a new system and a better line. That said, I highly doubt that any team gives him that opportunity- the broncos didn't want him (over orton), who is going to make him their guy (oakland?)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616916]Hey, if we had brought in Sanchez, we'd have a rookie that the stats and film show is less mobile than Campbell to get killed behind this line, while trying to learn the system from Zorn, who apparently may not be the best teacher.

If we brought in Cutler, same story, a cannon arm like Campbell but no protection and he's not a runner either. The INT totals would probably be even greater with the Skins rather than the Bears, with no upgrade over Campbell.


I am keeping this thread running because it shows that we're not only better off with Campbell than the other two rumored Redskin QBs, he's actually performing better with much less to work with, as the stats show. He's leading them all in nearly every category. As the title says, Campbell's numbers don't lie.[/quote]

Please tell me this is a joke. Look at who we've played. Some of the worst defensive teams in the league.Campbell is a really slow processing Qb. Would a better o-line help. Of course, but for you to say Campbell is better than Cutler is just flat out insane. Dude, Campbell is a joke. I can't believe people are still defending him!!!!!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616916]
I am keeping this thread running because it shows that we're not only better off with Campbell than the other two rumored Redskin QBs, he's actually performing better with much less to work with, as the stats show. He's leading them all in nearly every category. As the title says, Campbell's numbers don't lie.[/quote]
This year maybe so.. into the future.. who knows. These two may very well still be starting while Campbell is wearing a headset. You can also make a comparison on the teams that we've played.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

It could be worse. We could have Jamarcus Russell

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I believe the best course of action is:

*Draft another QB. Maybe McCoy, anyone but Tebow. I'd prefer that we pick up a top O-lineman with the high pick we're going to have, but as long as we cover the O-line throughout the draft, I'll be happy.

*Start Campbell with the new coach, hopefully Gruden. With a good line and new coach, I truly believe Campbell will be GREAT...not just good enough, but great. IF he can't cut it with an offensive line and new coach, the rookie or Colt Brennan steps in and it's officially the end of his era.

Campbell is playing very well this year in this Titanic-like offense. With a complete team and competent staff around him, I believe he'll do great things. We can't continue a QB carousel, we've been doing it since Rypien and it is clearly not working. Let's truly develop a QB into our leader.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;616943]It could be worse. We could have Jamarcus Russell[/quote]

Or Mr. 2-17, Derek Anderson!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I wonder if the Pillsbury Throwboy has a job now...he could actually survive behind our line. Cut Collins, bring in Jared Lorenzen!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;616930]Please tell me this is a joke. Look at who we've played. Some of the worst defensive teams in the league.Campbell is a really slow processing Qb. Would a better o-line help. Of course, but for you to say Campbell is better than Cutler is just flat out insane. Dude, Campbell is a joke. I can't believe people are still defending him!!!!![/quote]

See thread title.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

if campbell's numbers dont lie then neither did mark brunell's. same situation imo. good numbers, bad results. same with chad pennington later on for the jets. great qb rating, but was a very safe passer rather than making plays. imo we should look at max hall in the later rounds from byu and focus on o-line through the draft. if tebow is there in the 2nd round then grab him, otherwise max hall in round 4 or 5. or possibly talk to the browns about a trade for quinn.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

^ I'd rather start fresh with a new QB. It's no wonder some of these big named QB's are sitting on the bench right now.....and it's not cause their going through a difficult time. Pass on Quinn. Pass on Cutler also, although he may go through his progressions better or have better poise his stats remain the same as JC's. Why pick up a QB who is not better then what you already have?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Big C;616981]if campbell's numbers dont lie then neither did mark brunell's. same situation imo. good numbers, bad results. same with chad pennington later on for the jets. great qb rating, but was a very safe passer rather than making plays. imo we should look at max hall in the later rounds from byu and focus on o-line through the draft. if tebow is there in the 2nd round then grab him, otherwise max hall in round 4 or 5. or possibly talk to the browns about a trade for quinn.[/quote]

Brunell [U]did[/U] take us to the playoffs and even won a postseason game, even without any WRs other than Moss.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616994]Brunell [U]did[/U] take us to the playoffs and even won a postseason game, even without any WRs other than Moss.[/quote]

yeah. but people still bitched about how bad brunell was, and he had good stats, which is my point. there are qbs with nice qb ratings but that doesnt mean everything.

here are some qbs coming out this year for sure, seniors, which i believe could be ok for mid to later rounds.

lefevour from cmu
hall from byu
turner from maryland (just because they run a pro-style offense and will probably be a 7th round pick)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

This thread should be called Campbells numbers DO LIE!!
He's not nearly as good as his "just OK" stats. He fucking blows

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;617177]This thread should be called Campbells numbers DO LIE!!
He's not nearly as good as his "just OK" stats. He fucking blows[/quote]

Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616916]Hey, if we had brought in Sanchez, we'd have a rookie that the stats and film show is less mobile than Campbell to get killed behind this line, while trying to learn the system from Zorn, who apparently may not be the best teacher.

If we brought in Cutler, same story, a cannon arm like Campbell but no protection and he's not a runner either. The INT totals would probably be even greater with the Skins rather than the Bears, with no upgrade over Campbell.


I am keeping this thread running because it shows that we're not only better off with Campbell than the other two rumored Redskin QBs, he's actually performing better with much less to work with, as the stats show. He's leading them all in nearly every category. As the title says, Campbell's numbers don't lie.[/quote]


I agree with you Buster, but I still don't think he is the "one" to get us to the promised land. The line sucks, but the line wasn't so bad when I saw the Skins play the Lions and he held the ball waayyyyyyy too long and looked like he couldn't make up his mind what to do. He still misses wide open WRs like poor Kelly, etc. Also, he isn't the guy because by the time we do get a nice line in place he might be on the downside of his career(if it is like 5 years). Last but not least, unless Snyder breaks down and gets a GM, I think JC is gone. What Snyder and Cerrato did with JC this offseason was horrendous, and it shows me Snyder doesn't have much faith in the guy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;617185]Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.[/quote]

Thanks. I thought I made a great point as well.
I'm thinking about cutting and pasting that into every thread discussion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616950]I believe the best course of action is:

*Draft another QB. Maybe McCoy, anyone but Tebow. I'd prefer that we pick up a top O-lineman with the high pick we're going to have, but as long as we cover the O-line throughout the draft, I'll be happy.

*Start Campbell with the new coach, hopefully Gruden. With a good line and new coach, I truly believe Campbell will be GREAT...not just good enough, but great. IF he can't cut it with an offensive line and new coach, the rookie or Colt Brennan steps in and it's officially the end of his era.

Campbell is playing very well this year in this Titanic-like offense. With a complete team and competent staff around him, I believe he'll do great things. We can't continue a QB carousel, we've been doing it since Rypien and it is clearly not working. Let's truly develop a QB into our leader.[/quote]

I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;617276]I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.[/quote]

Exactly

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Sanchez' passing numbers won Offensive Rookie of the Year for Vince Young. And he didn't even have the assistance of a hot dog.

If Campbell ate a hot dog, he'd instantly be the best QB in the division.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Cutler and Campbell remain roughly the same degree of player which should be a cautionary tale to anyone who is convinced that quarterback is the only issue. You can plug in anyone as a space holder, but the Bears and Redskins both have to fix their leaky lines and offensive schemes before you can get any production out of your offense. It's not like either team can run the ball.

The only difference is that we can choose to cut bait at the end of the year, and they are still in another first round draft pick. Basically, they have to spend whatever resources they have to salvage their investment on Cutler. We can either try to salvage what we have with Campbell, or we can just move on without cost.

Neither situation is ideal, but it makes the coaching position a lot more desirable if they have a blank slate. Even if the Bears finish 6-10, they pretty much have to keep Lovie there.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;617276]I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.[/quote]

You can't agree that many of Campbell's mistakes are directly tied to the lack of protection and time to make decisions?

Gruden mentioned about JC's "happy feet", but can you blame him with as many hits, mostly immediate hits that he's taking with this joke of a line TRYING to block for him?

Last season, he had a weak line in the second half, but it wasn't this bad. He threw the fewest INTs of any full-time starting QB last year, even with a broken-down line in the second half. He's clearly capable of playing mistake-free football if he has even a little talent around him...which he doesn't this season.



Thanks for all of the incredibly-stimulating commentary, SOUL-SKINS.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;617219]Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up[/quote]


Thank you.


I will.


Before the season, I strongly supported keeping Campbell. I thought he'd have a big year, which is now clearly impossible without a competent offensive line. However, I stand by my views on Campbell, Cutler and Sanchez and intend to keep compiling the stats that support my stance on it.

Sure, if Campbell's stats proved it, I COULD admit I was wrong and move on, but I don't see that as necessary because he is actually proving to be just as good, or better than the other two QBs even with the distinct disadvantage of playing behind Vinny Cerrato's idea of an offensive line. I still say we made the right decision and wouldn't be any better of a team with another QB this season, but we COULD be worse. Let Collins play a few games and when he's admitted to the hospital, we'll see that.

I also believe that unlike Zorn, Jason Campbell has done enough to earn another year with the team and if he's given a line and has a coach capable of understanding playcalling...can excel.