Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791818]I invoke the go with God defense as well as my right against self incrimination. Basically whoever Shanahan picks I will support and believe in because I believe that in spite of the McNabb fiasco the Shanahans still know how to find and develop QB's.

At the moment I'm trying to like Locker but he scares me. I personally would probably go with Dalton or Ponder in the second, which would be easier if I could learn specifics about Dalton. However as I've been saying over the past hour I think that the Skins are going to use a first round pick on Locker.

I think that right now their Plan A is to trade down into the late teens and pick up a third round pick and draft Locker. Plan B will be to take Locker at 10. Remember Shanahan was the the guy that took Cutler at 11, so I personally believe he won't have any problem taking him at 10 if he thinks that what it'll take to get him.[/quote]

Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;791820]Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.[/quote]

I do to, if my notion is right then I hope that it's done through a trade down. At least that way they can add two players in the trenches in the first 3 rounds with that extra pick.

I'd also add that I think that the elder Shanahan views Locker as a McNabb clone. However the main difference is that Locker will be more open to what Shanahan wants in terms of coaching and running the system then McNabb and as a result will succeed.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791815]Ponder, Locker, Dalton, and Kaepernick (possibly Stanzi as well) are all QB's that are capable of being coached up by the Shanahans. All 4 are also mobile and capable of protecting the O-Line.

Still I think that people here should seriously prepare for this team drafting Locker as early as 10. Raw talent seems to matter the most to Shanahan and only Newton has more raw talent then Locker. The difference is Locker has been pegged as fitting Shanahan's system and we've already heard how much he likes him.

To put it simply Locker is the Trent Williams of the QB position. And I believe, gun to my head and I have to be right that for better or worse Locker will be drafted by the Redskins, and it's very possible that unless they can trade back that it will happen with the 10th pick.

Also the last 10 years doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that we're looking at the 4th year of an amazing 3 year run of QB drafts. All classes that were deemed weak by this board on draft day.[/quote]

Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there:) ).

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791823]I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back[/quote]

I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.

[quote=skinster;791822]Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there:) ).[/quote]

Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;791798]Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.[/quote]

Flacco also plays on a very talented team that has a good Defense, Offensive line, Wr's and Running Back and running game. The Ravens have few weakness' and most Qb's would play well in that situation. Redskins do not have that yet.
I like Flacco and he is a good QB but he is not great. He has had the luxury of playing aon a very good team and has had the time to grow in his position. Not many Qb's have that luxury. You can say the same thing about Sanchez and the Jets. If the Jets had a stud QB like a Peyton Manning last year instead of Sanchez, they would be the Champs right now.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I honestly think that we will trade down in the first. Andy Dalton can be had in the second round. When I see Julio Jones, I think Michael Westbrook. There is no promisses that we will resign Grossman. I think there are pressing needs on the interior of the line that needs to be addressed. Getting pouncey in the first, and Dalton in the second would go along way to fixing this team.

That way next year Corey L. can shift to center and pouncey can play gaurd. Those moves along with resigning Brown would make this line better. Giving the QB a chance.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

John beck? I just don't see anything to the guy

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

FINALLY! Someone took the time to make a video of Dalton that isn't shot by a student in the endzone.
[YT]Fj-4131UbFg[/YT]

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

definately not a highlight film! Just a full game but it shows his fight, and he has a quick release. He is my hope that the Redskins target in the second round.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791824]I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.



Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.[/quote]

I didn't say there was a zero percent chance that a 2nd rounder will pan out. I said theres a zero percent chance that multiple 2nd round picks in this years draft are franchise qbs. Your right that I shouldn't say zero, but realistically the odds are close enough so that we shouldn't consider it a possibility.

A franchise qb is SO valuable, that if you truly believe your guy is the guy that will get it done, you use a first rounder on him. There is a reason why nobody thinks these guys will go in the first, its because nobody believes they are the guy.

If it were really as easy as you are saying to find a franchise qb, that all a guy with average skills and a good work ethic/leadership needs is a good coach, then there would be alot more franchise qbs in the league found in later rounds.

Good coaching does not make or break any qb. If that were true then qb's that failed with the teams that drafted them should improve when they move teams or get new coaches. Every failed qb ever has found a new coach eventually, but I can't think of a single qb that ever turned into a franchise qb after a coaching change.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;791837]definately not a highlight film! Just a full game but it shows his fight, and he has a quick release. He is my hope that the Redskins target in the second round.[/quote]

I didn't expect him to have that much zip on his throws. Personally I loved how accurate we was on those quick outs and comebacks. That fade pass on the TD was great as well. If anything I'd say he's a poor mans Sam Bradford. Finally though I have a better understanding as to why he's created so many man crushes. Andy Dalton is worthy of being this teams QB.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Ive liked Dalton all along he reminds me of a poor mans Rodgers

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I'm not sure I ever exactly said comfortable with Beck. But I think he's in the mix. As of today, if a CBA ever comes around or if there's enough time between legal battles to move on free agency, I see a QB competition this summer starring John Beck, Vince Young, a draft pick (they seem to like Dalton, but 10 is too high and will he be there at 41?), and maybe Rex Grossman (or perhaps another veteran).

Been asking several different people associated with the NFL and/or the Redskins in different ways...and this Vince Young interest is legit. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. But at least this year I'll feel prepared if it happens, unlike last year when the McNabb totally blindsided me.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Wow it seems like Vince yoUng could really be the guy next year , I'd take him under Shanny

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinster;791822]Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. [B]Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. [/B]Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there:) ).[/quote]

You are right about most second rounders...except for folks like Drew Brees. There are exceptions to your logic.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Well I mean who knows. Maybe not. But what seemed totally unlikely just a month ago appears to be pretty serious right now. Things can change though. They always do

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;791846]You are right about most second rounders...except for folks like Drew Brees. There are exceptions to your logic.[/quote]

I was well aware of Drew Brees when I said that (I said drafted in the last 10 years to avoid this conversation). I never said second rounders are impossible to hit on, I was trying to convey to Dirtbag that a qb is not something that can be easily picked up or developed. I was trying to say that a 2nd round qb is not something to be counted on as the future.
But as a side note, there are currently more qb's drafted in the 6th round that have made a pro bowl than in the 2nd (Drew Brees is the only one).

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791847]Well I mean who knows. Maybe not. But what seemed totally unlikely just a month ago appears to be pretty serious right now. Things can change though. They always do[/quote]


Well I thought it was a weird pairing but I guess his athleticism attracts them plus the fact that he's been a winner in this league helps also.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791852]Well I thought it was a weird pairing but I guess his athleticism attracts them plus the fact that he's been a winner in this league helps also.[/quote]

I know Kyle left Texas just as VY was arriving, but maybe there's some connection there too?

But I guess at the end of the day, if the Titans release him as expected then why not give it a shot?

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791853]I know Kyle left Texas just as VY was arriving, but maybe there's some connection there too?

But I guess at the end of the day, if the Titans release him as expected then why not give it a shot?[/quote]


I am all for it personally, anytime he has the ball opposing defenses have to be worried, and he doesn't throw many Ints so thats also a plus. Like I said before, he has to be better than Rex

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Ruhskins;791809]Who the hell drafts a guard or a blocking tight end with their first round pick?[/quote]

Logan Mankins.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinster;791779]I know I'll get grief for this but I'd say Flacco isn't good (honestly, would you really want him as our qb?). Hasselback, although once good, isn't what he used to be, and does not deserve to make the list.[/quote]

As of right now hell yeah.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791795]Joe Flacco is Jason Campbell V2 IMO[/quote]

How exactly???

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;791819]The notion that Flacco does not throw for a ton of yards because he plays in an offense which does not throw much has already been addressed. You are penalizing him for his offensive system.

Besides, NFL.com has him 11th in passing yards last year, not 20th as you claim. He was 9th in yards per attempt, which is a much fairer basis for comparison.

Last year he had a higher YPA and better TD/Int ratio than Peyton Manning.

And he is young. He has his best years ahead of him.[/quote]

NFL.com has the ravens at 20th in pass yards per game and Flacco started every game. To me thats even more pathetic because that means that 9 teams had their makeshift qb stables surpass Flacco, the supposed franchise qb.
I don't believe that their offensive system is the reason for why he doesn't throw many yards. I don't believe that in the modern era of football that any team with a true franchise qb doesn't use him because they want to run the ball more. The players dictate the system just as much as the system dictates the players. What plays are called are a reflection of the confidence in the players.

Despite that Flacco leads the league in sacks due to holding on to the ball for too long, and his playoff numbers are by the worst of any quarterback of all time who has played in 7 games (hell I'd take a guess and say 3). He averages 150 yards per game, and has a ratio of 4tds to 10 turnovers (9 interceptions).

Don't blame it on him being young. Mark Sanchez who has played in 5 playoff games has blown him out of the water (even though he hasn't been spectacular)...and I don't even believe in Mark Sanchez (thats a whole another debate, and I don't feel like getting into that so please don't respond about sanchez).

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;791859]How exactly???[/quote]

Good enough to stick around, not good enough to win when the qb is needed.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

^ exactly . Flacco is a solid player but he's never going to be a top 10-15 QB in the NFL just like JC was never either. Both guys have good arms but not very accurate and Joe has had a wag Better team than JC ever had.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

^ * way better *

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Have heard from four different people now (and maybe they're all hearing it from the same person) that the Seahawks like Dalton at #25 and the Broncos like Ponder or Kaepernick (if either is there) at the top of the 2nd.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791864]Have heard from four different people now (and maybe they're all hearing it from the same person) that the Seahawks like Dalton at #25 and the Broncos like Ponder or Kaepernick (if either is there) at the top of the 2nd.[/quote]

I figured as such with Dalton after finally getting a chance to watch him. He probably deserves a second round grade but with his accuracy and intangibles some team will have no problem taking him late in the first. Ponder on the other hand I could easily see falling to the early 3rd round like McCoy. Based on the scenario you laid out I would guess that the Bronco's would lean more towards Kaepernick if for nothing more then the fact that Elway would probably see more of himself in Kaepernick.

By the way I still say we're going to take Locker with our first pick, weather it be at 10 or the late teens via trade back. This is Shanahan's guy.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791865]I figured as such with Dalton after finally getting a chance to watch him. He probably deserves a second round grade but with his accuracy and intangibles some team will have no problem taking him late in the first. Ponder on the other hand I could easily see falling to the early 3rd round like McCoy. Based on the scenario you laid out I would guess that the Bronco's would lean more towards Kaepernick if for nothing more then the fact that Elway would probably see more of himself in Kaepernick.

By the way I still say we're going to take Locker with our first pick, weather it be at 10 or the late teens via trade back. This is Shanahan's guy.[/quote]

No longer convinced it's Newton?

I'm sticking to my thought that if we stay at #10 and he's there, Quinn's our guy...in large part 'cause I'm too lazy to think otherwise

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[html][/html][quote=SmootSmack;791866]No longer convinced it's Newton?

I'm sticking to my thought that if we stay at #10 and he's there, Quinn's our guy...in large part 'cause I'm too lazy to think otherwise[/quote]

Ehhh, I had to give up on Newton after hearing that he's pretty much a lock to be a top 5 pick. Locker on the other hand is guaranteed to be there at 10 but more then likely will have been gone by pick 41 and as of now they have no ammo to trade up, as players and next years picks are off limits in trades.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791867][html][/html]

Ehhh, I had to give up on Newton after hearing that he's pretty much a lock to be a top 5 pick. Locker on the other hand is guaranteed to be there at 10 but more then likely will have been gone by pick 41 and as of now they have no ammo to trade up, as players and next years picks are off limits in trades.[/quote]

Not exactly true. You can trade future picks, but at your own risk. Suppose traded Rex Grossman for a 2012 7th rounder. Then a new CBA is agreed upon, and one of the new conditions is the draft is now just 6 rounds. We're out of luck. Or consider the 4th we have from Oakland next year in the Campbell trade. Suppose there's no draft next year. Screwed again

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Redskins are on the clock today. NFLN Path to the Draft 6pm ET. Replay 10pm ET.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791867][html][/html]

Ehhh, I had to give up on Newton after hearing that he's pretty much a lock to be a top 5 pick. Locker on the other hand is guaranteed to be there at 10 but more then likely will have been gone by pick 41 and as of now they have no ammo to trade up, as players and next years picks are off limits in trades.[/quote]

Why give away draft picks to trade up for Locker when you can get a better QB in Kaepernick at 41?

#10 - Defensive front or linebacker
#41 - Colin Kaepernick

BOOM! WINNING!!!

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SkinzWin;791962]Why give away draft picks to trade up for Locker when you can get a better QB in Kaepernick at 41?

#10 - Defensive front or linebacker
#41 - Colin Kaepernick

BOOM! WINNING!!![/quote]


#10 - Julio Jones
#41 - Locker - Kaepernick ")

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791967]#10 - Julio Jones
#41 - Locker - Kaepernick ")[/quote]

10 - Julio Jones - WR - Alabama
41 - Randall Cobb - WR - Kentucky
144 - Virgil Green - TE - Nevada

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791968]10 - Julio Jones - WR - Alabama
41 - Randall Cobb - WR - Kentucky[/quote]

you and your damn SEC hehe

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;791968]10 - Julio Jones - WR - Alabama
41 - Randall Cobb - WR - Kentucky
144 - Virgil Green - TE - Nevada[/quote]

So the cards have been dealt. After all this time, Dirtbag has finally shown himself. Welcome to the Warpath Vinny!

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SkinzWin;791979]So the cards have been dealt. After all this time, Dirtbag has finally shown himself. Welcome to the Warpath Vinny![/quote]

Thanks. If it wasn't for Zorn I would still have a job. Skinzwin, did you know that Zorn eats babies? Especially the ones that Dan saved from third world countries.