Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SirLK26;1073801]Disrespectfully disagree. :D

Having 2 pools and 16 cabanas at an NFL stadium is just too awesome. Now if only it was at FedEx Field instead of the darn EverBank Field, you can bet your a** I do my best to make the trip up there to see a Skins game sometime soon(the money, of course, wouldn't be a problem at all. LOL).

One thing that is BS is having NFL Redzone showing on the screens in the endzones. This is Jaguars football; don't show other teams scores' during the game! What's that going to do to the home fans?

Guy #1: "Yeah, I'm here at EverBank Field watching my favorite team play, but it's so crappy, I think I'll watch NFL Redzone so I can see someone besides our opponet score. Hey, dude, check it out; there's actually a team that's putting up points!"

Guy#2: "Yeah, and here we are with a score of a million to zero. That's depressing, bro, let's go home."

Guy#1. "We suck. Jaguars suck."

See what I'm saying?[/quote]


No , seriously and with no disrespect intended .Watching the scores of the other teams especially the ones in your own division have always been part of the game but if you want to go to the beach go to the beach just no need for that type of promotional BS in Football ,have a good product on the field and fans will come to the games .

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Giantone;1073804]No , seriously and with no disrespect intended .Watching the scores of the other teams especially the ones in your own division have always been part of the game but if you want to go to the beach go to the beach just no need for that type of promotional BS in Football ,have a good product on the field and fans will come to the games .[/quote]

In the meantime though, why not add some cabanas? This is a great idea by a team whose fan base is woefully underappreciated to begin with

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073812]In the meantime though, why not add some cabanas? This is a great idea by [B]a team whose fan base is woefully underappreciated to begin with[/B][/quote]

Anyone who can be devoted to the Jags has my respect. That's hardcore fandom.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/10/anti-redskins-commercial-to-air-during-nba-finals/]Anti-Redskins commercial to air during NBA Finals | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1073796]Not believable imo. Why say that years later?[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=mooby;1073798][URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11055495/jacksonville-jaguars-poolside-cabanas-stadium"]Jacksonville Jaguars to have poolside cabanas in stadium - ESPN[/URL]

I thought it was interesting that this article mentioned we have the highest population turnover of any NFL city, figured I'd share. I knew we'd be up there but had no idea we were #1. At least now we can claim we are #1 in something.[/quote]
Maybe the Hooters girls can serve food and drinks!! I like this idea of a developmental league
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/developmental-league-has-support-no-launch-plan/2014/06/08/a58010b2-ef2e-11e3-ba99-4469323d5076_story.html]Developmental league has support, no launch plan - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=budw38;1073817]Maybe the Hooters girls can serve food and drinks!! I like this idea of a developmental league
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/developmental-league-has-support-no-launch-plan/2014/06/08/a58010b2-ef2e-11e3-ba99-4469323d5076_story.html]Developmental league has support, no launch plan - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Both your ideas sound great! :D

Seriously though, a developmental league is a great idea, provided it's in the States and not Europe or somewhere else. The NFL talent level and so many players, specifically thinking of UDFAs, would benefit.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1073814][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/10/anti-redskins-commercial-to-air-during-nba-finals/]Anti-Redskins commercial to air during NBA Finals | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

That is a powerful ad.

As I said before, Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history with his stand on changing the team name. In today's cultural and political climate, the letter from 50 Democratic U.S. Senators calling the name "racist" and asking Snyder to change it should have borne much more weight with him.

I wonder how many Republican Senators would have signed that letter if the political parties didn't distrust and obstruct one another so much that the Democrats didn't even bother to circulate it among them?

This time around, the pressure isn't going to fade away. Snyder might as well claim to have had an epiphany and agree to change the name. He'll be forced to do so eventually. If he does it now, he can look like a born again good guy while finding a thousand ways to make money off the name change.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1073819][B]That is a powerful ad.[/B]

As I said before, Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history with his stand on changing the team name. In today's cultural and political climate, the letter from 50 Democratic U.S. Senators calling the name "racist" and asking Snyder to change it should have borne much more weight with him.

I wonder how many Republican Senators would have signed that letter if the political parties didn't distrust and obstruct one another so much that the Democrats didn't even bother to circulate it among them?

This time around, the pressure isn't going to fade away. Snyder might as well claim to have had an epiphany and agree to change the name. He'll be forced to do so eventually. If he does it now, he can look like a born again good guy while finding a thousand ways to make money off the name change.[/quote]
I said this when they aired it around the SB. If you throw in clips of Native American High Schools that still use the Redskins name and logo(with the voiceover saying football player one time and Redskins the next), clips of Redskins game footage (with voice over saying athlete) and fans singing Hail to the Redskins, and a couple simple other edits, the ad would easily be more honest and also support the name, as most Native Americans currently do. Like most propaganda/commercials, it's bias is pretty obvious, and built on half truths and relies on people not using a shred of critical thinking - so it probably will work.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

If you read one column about the Redskins name issue, make it this one

[url=http://httr24-7.com/blog/true-lies-and-the-washington-redskins/]True Lies and the Washington Redskins[/url]

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

Heard DS hired a lobbyist firm to take over this issue.

Good move - BA should only have to worry and spend time and effort on football operations, not necessarily PR and senate action issues this is becoming.

Bad - that is a lot of money that could been spent on reducing the cost of parking, upgrading a facility or a zillion other things that could have made the fan or player experience better.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1073820]I said this when they aired it around the SB. If you throw in clips of Native American High Schools that still use the Redskins name and logo(with the voiceover saying football player one time and Redskins the next), clips of Redskins game footage (with voice over saying athlete) and fans singing Hail to the Redskins, and a couple simple other edits, the ad would easily be more honest and also [B]support the name, as most Native Americans currently do[/B]. Like most propaganda/commercials, it's bias is pretty obvious, and built on half truths and relies on people not using a shred of critical thinking - so it probably will work.[/quote]

I do not believe that most Native Americans support the name. It certainly offends enough Native Americans to incentivize tribal and other organizations to campaign against it.

By the way, what percentage of any racial group needs to be offended by any racially descriptive word for that word to be eliminated from common usage? Well under 50% as a group, I would think. Only one person would need to be offended for me to stop using the word if I'm talking to a Native American who is insulted by my use of it. Why not err on the side of being respectful?

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073821]If you read one column about the Redskins name issue, make it this one

[url=http://httr24-7.com/blog/true-lies-and-the-washington-redskins/]True Lies and the Washington Redskins[/url][/quote]

Mic drop. Well written and informative.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073821]If you read one column about the Redskins name issue, make it this one

[url=http://httr24-7.com/blog/true-lies-and-the-washington-redskins/]True Lies and the Washington Redskins[/url][/quote]

That is a good article in some ways, especially if one substitutes the phrase "empirical evidence" for "imperial evidence."

But it problematically cites many polls in favor of the name. There are many positive polls but I haven't seen one that has a scent of scientific rigor. Without polls done with sound methods, those polls will not convince opponents.

I am with KI Skins Fan on this: in the long run it doesn't matter what the true history of the word is or anything else like that. In the long run, either the trademark will be vacated or sponsors (rightly or wrongly) will withdraw money from the NFL. When either of these things happens, the name will change. The article hints at this outcome, too.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1073823][B]I do not believe that most Native Americans support the name.[/B] It certainly offends enough Native Americans to incentivize tribal and other organizations to campaign against it.

By the way, what percentage of any racial group needs to be offended by any racially descriptive word for that word to be eliminated from common usage? Well under 50% as a group, I would think. Only one person would need to be offended for me to stop using the word if I'm talking to a Native American who is insulted by my use of it. Why not err on the side of being respectful?[/quote]

What empirical evidence do you have to support that belief. If the Oneida tribes could have any poll that showed their point of view I believe they would be touting them across all the major networks, and also reference it in that "powerful" ad you linked.

As for what percentage, I think 25-30% would be enough in my opinion. Basically the so-called super majority used in most legislative actions. Dirtbag said it earlier and I agree, if an unbiased authoritative polling institution issued a comprehensive poll that showed that more than 30% of Native Americans felt the name was a major negative influence, then the team ought to begin the process of changing the name. I definitely don't think policy or especially private business ought to be driven by the thought that if only 1 person is offended, basically that creates untenable conditions, and I am willing to bet that you can find one person (or one sliver subgroup) who is/are offended by any type of naming.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1073830]What empirical evidence do you have to support that belief. If the Oneida tribes could have any poll that showed their point of view I believe they would be touting them across all the major networks, and also reference it in that "powerful" ad you linked.

As for what percentage, I think 25-30% would be enough in my opinion. Basically the so-called super majority used in most legislative actions. Dirtbag said it earlier and I agree, if an unbiased authoritative polling institution issued a comprehensive poll that showed that more than 30% of Native Americans felt the name was a major negative influence, then the team ought to begin the process of changing the name. I definitely don't think policy or especially private business ought to be driven by the thought that if only 1 person is offended, basically that creates untenable conditions, and I am willing to bet that you can find one person (or one sliver subgroup) who is/are offended by any type of naming.[/quote]

CRed, with all respect, dominant culture folks simply took land from Indians, killed them off by the handfuls, and then destroyed their remaining cultures, leaving many of their descendents to eke out a bare existence on reservation lands that often are so bad, no one else wants them.

But if only 24% of Indians oppose the vanity of a sports team nickname because they consider it offensive, the name should stay?

I agree with you that there will always be naysayers. But for me, given historical and current situations, the percentage of opposition needs to be much lower than the 24% you propose for change.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Lotus;1073832]CRed, with all respect, dominant culture folks simply took land from Indians, killed them off by the handfuls, and then destroyed their remaining cultures, leaving many of their descendents to eke out a bare existence on reservation lands that often are so bad, no one else wants them.

But if only 24% of Indians oppose the vanity of a sports team nickname because they consider it offensive, the name should stay?

I agree with you that there will always be naysayers. But for me, given historical and current situations, the percentage of opposition needs to be much lower than the 24% you propose for change.[/quote]

and with similar respect, if 76% of any group have found the path towards moving forward doesn't include taking insult in a term, then I think that the general population, and private businesses, should move forward too. If the Redskins actively perpetrated actions against native americans, then that would also be different, but I believe many substantial polls (older I know) show that the name is not used as an opportunity to reinforce a societal denigration of an entire class of people, and instead reflects values of that class that are inspiring - bravery, courage, strength, pride.

I am willing to go out on a limb that if you polled older white americans you would find 20% that would actively want to go back to days where segregation existed( although I have no polls to prove it). But that doesn't make that 20% valid, because the larger white society has moved forward. I know that's a lousy analogy, but it's the best I could do here at work with a headache!

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=over the mountain;1073822]Heard DS hired a lobbyist firm to take over this issue.

Good move - BA should only have to worry and spend time and effort on football operations, not necessarily PR and senate action issues this is becoming.

Bad - that is a lot of money that could been spent on reducing the cost of parking, upgrading a facility or a zillion other things that could have made the fan or player experience better.[/quote]

Yeah, here's a link. Great move by Snyder.

[url=http://tracking.si.com/2014/06/10/redskins-hire-lobbying-firm-senators-call-nickname-change/]Redskins hire lobbying firm after senators call for nickname*change | SI Wire[/url]

[quote=Lotus;1073832]CRed, with all respect, dominant culture folks simply took land from Indians, killed them off by the handfuls, and then destroyed their remaining cultures, leaving many of their descendents to eke out a bare existence on reservation lands that often are so bad, no one else wants them.

But if only 24% of Indians oppose the vanity of a sports team nickname because they consider it offensive, the name should stay?<snip>[/quote]

With all due respect to you as well, that first paragraph has very little to do with the name-change issue; the only reason it's even relevant is because we're on the topic of Native Americans.

Yeah, white people invaded the Native American's land and forced the original Americans to find new homes, but we're talking about the nickname of a football team that's meant to honor Native Americans and came about hundreds of years after what you're talking about. Certainly not a reason to change the name.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073821]If you read one column about the Redskins name issue, make it this one

[url=http://httr24-7.com/blog/true-lies-and-the-washington-redskins/]True Lies and the Washington Redskins[/url][/quote]

Finally, someone brings facts to the table. Is there something we can do besides the usual "post to FB/etc." to bring this to the attention of the national media?

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

It is not a "nick name" , it is the actual name of the Washington Redskins .

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073812]In the meantime though, why not add some cabanas? This is a great idea by a team whose fan base is woefully underappreciated to begin with[/quote]


If that is the case then take the team from the owner ,adding cabanas make the players and the team more of a joke .Party decks are BS also ,there is enough trouble at games with drinking now were going to turn the NFL in spring brake ,eff that ,no .

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Giantone;1073837]It is not a "nick name" , it is the actual name of the Washington Redskins .[/quote]

I love lamp.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SirLK26;1073834]
With all due respect to you as well, that first paragraph has very little to do with the name-change issue; the only reason it's even relevant is because we're on the topic of Native Americans.

Yeah, white people invaded the Native American's land and forced the original Americans to find new homes, but we're talking about the nickname of a football team that's meant to honor Native Americans and [B]came about hundreds of years after what you're talking about[/B]. Certainly not a reason to change the name.[/quote]

The heart of the issue is respect for Indians, in which case a history of disrespect for Indians is quite relevant.

And it is not "hundreds of years after" what I've been talking about, unless Native Americans were all given back their land overnight and I was not informed. The oppression of indigenous Americans is a continuing story.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SirLK26;1073840]I love lamp.[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SirLK26;1073840]I love lamp.[/quote]


I love Madden.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1073814][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/10/anti-redskins-commercial-to-air-during-nba-finals/]Anti-Redskins commercial to air during NBA Finals | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]


Bunch of assholes.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Lotus;1073841]The heart of the issue is respect for Indians, in which case a history of disrespect for Indians is quite relevant.

And it is not "hundreds of years after" what I've been talking about, unless Native Americans were all given back their land overnight and I was not informed. The oppression of indigenous Americans is a continuing story.[/quote]

If respect is the issue we're discussing, then it's useless for me to reply because it's all a matter of opinion. I think that the name was meant to and does honor Native Americans and their heritage; and the polls seem to back me up on that. And I don't think that because the minority finds the name offensive and wants it changed, it should happen. Majority, yes....


[quote=NC_Skins;1073844]Bunch of assholes.[/quote]

Read this and weep, oh falsely offended attention-seekers.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SirLK26;1073845][B]If respect is the issue we're discussing, then it's useless for me to reply because it's all a matter of opinion.[/B] [I]I think that the name was meant to and does honor Native Americans and their heritage[/I]; and the polls seem to back me up on that. And I don't think that because the minority finds the name offensive and wants it changed, it should happen. Majority, yes....




Read this and weep, oh falsely offended attention-seekers.[/quote]

Actually respect is not just a matter of opinion.

Several posts here have called for respect for and honoring of Indians. Yet you have argued against these posts because of, in your own words, your opinion.

Therefore you have freely chosen to honor your own opinion instead of showing respect to Indians. While others may still make this claim, it is BS for you to claim that the name "Redskins" honors Indians, because you actually have refused to do so. As such, you are the poster child for the "Redskins name leads to disrespect for Indians" argument.

Congratulations, you have proven right the change-the-name contingent, right before our eyes.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1073830]What empirical evidence do you have to support that belief. If the Oneida tribes could have any poll that showed their point of view I believe they would be touting them across all the major networks, and also reference it in that "powerful" ad you linked.

As for what percentage, I think 25-30% would be enough in my opinion. Basically the so-called super majority used in most legislative actions. Dirtbag said it earlier and I agree, if an unbiased authoritative polling institution issued a comprehensive poll that showed that more than 30% of Native Americans felt the name was a major negative influence, then the team ought to begin the process of changing the name. I definitely don't think policy or especially private business ought to be driven by the thought that if only 1 person is offended, basically that creates untenable conditions, and I am willing to bet that you can find one person (or one sliver subgroup) who is/are offended by any type of naming.[/quote]

I don't need any evidence (empirical or imperial) to support my belief because YOU'RE the one who stated that most Native Americans are not offended by the name Redskins. I simply challenged your statement. Perhaps you should prove the contention you made.

If Dan Snyder is so sure that the name is not offensive to most Native Americans then perhaps he should hire a reputable polling company to find out the truth. But no, he hired a lobbyist instead.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

Ringleader of the plot to rob Sean Taylor found [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11063071/jury-convicts-second-man-sean-taylor-murder-trial"]guilty[/URL] of murder, finally. It's about time they wrapped this shit up.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1073844]Bunch of assholes.[/quote]

Im offended by this comment because I myself have an asshole.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Lotus;1073847]Actually respect is not just a matter of opinion.

Several posts here have called for respect for and honoring of Indians. Yet you have argued against these posts because of, in your own words, your opinion.

Therefore you have freely chosen to honor your own opinion instead of showing respect to Indians. While others may still make this claim, it is BS for you to claim that the name "Redskins" honors Indians, because you actually have refused to do so. As such, you are the poster child for the "Redskins name leads to disrespect for Indians" argument.

Congratulations, you have proven right the change-the-name contingent, right before our eyes.[/quote]

If you can show me where I directly argued against honoring Native Americans, I'll give you a doughnut.

And when did I refuse to say the name "Redskins" honors Native Americans? I actually did say just that, twice. See posts above.

Also, in reply to your first sentence, I was saying that whatever side of the debate over whether or not the name "Redskins" honored Native Americans you're on is an opinion. While it's technically not, it sort of is, because while there is plenty of evidence that the name does not offend currently and was meant as an honor when it first came into use as this teams name, plenty of people, like you, refuse to see that and claim it's offensive, again, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1073848]I don't need any evidence (empirical or imperial) to support my belief because YOU'RE the one who stated that most Native Americans are not offended by the name Redskins. I simply challenged your statement. Perhaps you should prove the contention you made.

If Dan Snyder is so sure that the name is not offensive to most Native Americans then perhaps he should hire a reputable polling company to find out the truth. But no, he hired a lobbyist instead.[/quote]

There are several respected polls out there, albeit not recent that clearly support the statement that a vast majority (over 70%) of native americans are either supportive of, or at least not offended by, the name. Further, a respected native american was distinctly involved in designing the logo, and several schools on native american soil continue to use the name Redskins as there school logos. Here is a link to the [URL="http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/downloads/political_communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf"]2004 Annenberg poll[/URL] which puts the percentage offended around 10%, less then half of the 24% mentioned earlier. Again, I am not saying that if a study done today came out and the number jumped way up, that the team shouldn't consider changing. But right now, there is no firm evidence that this is the case. Even when they held protests, you didn't see massive turnouts, in fact the Minnesota one was by all accounts very poorly attended.

He hired a lobbyist PR firm because he and the team are subject to a smear campaign, not by people bringing facts and reasoned argument, but simply playing to a base political motive.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1073814][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/10/anti-redskins-commercial-to-air-during-nba-finals/"]Anti-Redskins commercial to air during NBA Finals | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]


.....is this the same one ?



[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-tbOxlhvE[/URL]