Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Giantone;1188879][URL]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-reportedly-want-to-give-kirk-cousins-60m-in-the-first-year-of-his-contract/[/URL][/quote]

If this actually happens it would seriously screw future qb negotiations.

And if Kirk actually entertained this offer all that "winner" talk would be proven to be absolute horseshit.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Giantone;1188879][url]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-reportedly-want-to-give-kirk-cousins-60m-in-the-first-year-of-his-contract/[/url][/quote]

I was reading with interest until this part:
[quote]Whether or not Cousins is willing to go down that path with the Jets may depend on comfort for him. [B]He clearly liked Washington and was willing to make something work[/B], but the franchise never committed to him, particularly on the financial front.[/quote]

Almost wrong enough to make the whole story bogus, in my opinion

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

yeah there is no way we could have kept Kirk, even if we really wanted to.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1188896]I was reading with interest until this part:


Almost wrong enough to make the whole story bogus, in my opinion[/quote]

I call BS on that, he didn't want to stay or else he would have period

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Even if he wanted to stay the team didn’t want to pay him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188899]Even if he wanted to stay the team didn’t want to pay him.[/quote]

Not that kind of $$ he knows he will get in FA. Honestly I think we all can agree that Kirk is not worth $30M next season.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Not to keep rehashing the same BS but if we paid him 2 years ago when he wanted $19M a year he would be a bargain right now. Such is life, I’m ready to move on with Smith.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188901]Not to keep rehashing the same BS but if we paid him 2 years ago when he wanted $19M a year he would be a bargain right now. Such is life, I’m ready to move on with Smith.[/quote]

no doubt

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Yeah he never countered Bruce's offer last summer. So he's either seeing the opportunity for a huge money grab by getting to free agency, or he flat out didn't want to be a Redskin. Either way that screams he's not the right leader for us.

Once he refused to counter Bruce's offer, the writing was on the wall. It was clear he wasn't invested in us for the long term. So there's no reason we should feel the need to be invested in him.

I look forward to the dimension Smith adds with his ability to scramble. Replacing Fuller will not be easy but now there's a path forward. I'm more excited for the future than I was after the 2016 season when Cousins lit it up. Having things settled at QB is key.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188905]Yeah he never countered Bruce's offer last summer. So he's either seeing the opportunity for a huge money grab by getting to free agency, or he flat out didn't want to be a Redskin. Either way that screams he's not the right leader for us.

Once he refused to counter Bruce's offer, the writing was on the wall. It was clear he wasn't invested in us for the long term. So there's no reason we should feel the need to be invested in him.

I look forward to the dimension Smith adds with his ability to scramble. Replacing Fuller will not be easy but now there's a path forward. I'm more excited for the future than I was after the 2016 season when Cousins lit it up. Having things settled at QB is key.[/quote]

Fuller is a good CB but he's never going to be a 1 or 2, he'll be a 3 for the majority of his career, not a huge loss imo.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1188905]Yeah he never countered Bruce's offer last summer. So he's either seeing the opportunity for a huge money grab by getting to free agency, or he flat out didn't want to be a Redskin. Either way that screams he's not the right leader for us.

Once he refused to counter Bruce's offer, the writing was on the wall. It was clear he wasn't invested in us for the long term. So there's no reason we should feel the need to be invested in him.

I look forward to the dimension Smith adds with his ability to scramble. Replacing Fuller will not be easy but now there's a path forward. I'm more excited for the future than I was after the 2016 season when Cousins lit it up. Having things settled at QB is key.[/QUOTE]I think there is a culture shift with the Skins. If you do not put in your best effort even during practice, film time, weight room and at show you are a team member at the bargaining table they will let you go.

It may take a year or two more but it will be for the best.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188905]Yeah he never countered Bruce's offer last summer. So he's either seeing the opportunity for a huge money grab by getting to free agency, or he flat out didn't want to be a Redskin. Either way that screams he's not the right leader for us.

Once he refused to counter Bruce's offer, the writing was on the wall. It was clear he wasn't invested in us for the long term. So there's no reason we should feel the need to be invested in him.

I look forward to the dimension Smith adds with his ability to scramble. Replacing Fuller will not be easy but now there's a path forward. I'm more excited for the future than I was after the 2016 season when Cousins lit it up. Having things settled at QB is key.[/quote]

Spot on! Negotiating contracts isn't about one side making all the offers and the other side sitting back and refusing those offers. Negotiation is about both sides coming to the table and trying to work a deal. That never happened with the Cousins camp, and was never going to happen. And all of this talk about Cousins threatening to place a complaint in with the NFLPA if the 'skins decided to try a tag and trade just solidifies the fact that he doesn't want anything to get in his way of making a big pay day. When all of this is said and done, Cousins is going to have to prove that he's worth the contract, and it's going to be a tough task to do so, especially if he goes to a team like the Jets or the Browns. Maybe not so much if he goes to Denver, but I don't believe Denver can pay out $60M in one year (I don't even think the Jets can do that!)

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Yes the Jets can, they have plenty of cap room and will be clearing up more

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Honestly, these reports of the Jets or Browns paying him ridiculous money $40-$60mil next year (probably just wild speculations IMO though) if they have any validity, I think further add to the argument for tagging him. $34 would be a bargain for these teams so they'll have no issue giving up a pick for an "expensive" 1 year deal.

I know, he might not like it, but if they're not gonna make big splashes in FA this year anyways, his need to come to the table is more urgent than theirs. If he wants a chance to talk to all interested parties before they make other plans than he'll have to cooperate, otherwise he would give in or out wait the Redskins later in FA and take what deal you can get at that point (Browns or Jets will be much less likely to pay these ridiculous contracts if they're the only one left bidding) or sit out next year.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Tagging him keeps coming back to the same problems... he could file a grievance and most of all carrying his $34M on our books indefinitely and effectively shutting down our ability to sign players.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188907]Fuller is a good CB but he's never going to be a 1 or 2, he'll be a 3 for the majority of his career, not a huge loss imo.[/quote]

He was clearly better than Breeland last year and you could argue he was better than Norman. So how can you say he'll never be a #2 corner? Fuller can play the slot and outside and was only in his 2nd year. It was a huge loss.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188934]Tagging him keeps coming back to the same problems... he could file a grievance and most of all carrying his $34M on our books indefinitely and effectively shutting down our ability to sign players.[/QUOTE]

Grievance is total BS story line.


Edit: the part of the article 4 section 8b that everyone seems to ignore is what comes after the part about good faith intentions to employ and pay the player at the franchise rate:

"The foregoing shall not affect any rights that a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if such termination, renegotiation, or TRADE is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or this Agreement."

It actually specifically says the team can trade or rescind the offer for that matter.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1188935]He was clearly better than Breeland last year and you could argue he was better than Norman. So how can you say he'll never be a #2 corner? Fuller can play the slot and outside and was only in his 2nd year. It was a huge loss.[/quote]

Slot corner and a mid round pick for a Pro Bowl QB and an extra 13+ million in salary cap space is more than a fair trade. Cousins wanted to leave and we needed a QB. We went out and got the best possible option. Hats off to the front office.

Note - Fuller is awesome and Chiefs got a good one. But you need a QB. Supply amd Demand. Way easier to replace a CB than a QB.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=WillH;1188936]Grievance is total BS story line.


Edit: the part of the article 4 section 8b that everyone seems to ignore is what comes after the part about good faith intentions to employ and pay the player at the franchise rate:

"The foregoing shall not affect any rights that a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if such termination, renegotiation, or TRADE is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or this Agreement."

It actually specifically says the team can trade or rescind the offer for that matter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


It very well might not go anywhere, he could still file it and also refuse to sign the tag and totally F up free agency for the team. Bottom line unless all parties are on board with a tag and trade the risk heavily outweighs the benefits

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188937]Slot corner and a mid round pick for a Pro Bowl QB and an extra 13+ million in salary cap space is more than a fair trade. Cousins wanted to leave and we needed a QB. We went out and got the best possible option. Hats off to the front office.

Note - Fuller is awesome and Chiefs got a good one. But you need a QB. Supply amd Demand. Way easier to replace a CB than a QB.[/quote]

We'll just see how it all pans out. We've already seen that clearing cap space doesn't really mean anything. It will also be interesting to see how the draft goes and if one of the top 4 QB's fall to us.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1188935]He was clearly better than Breeland last year and you could argue he was better than Norman. So how can you say he'll never be a #2 corner? Fuller can play the slot and outside and was only in his 2nd year. It was a huge loss.[/quote]

He isn't fast enough to be a #1, he is at most a 2. His brother is just as good of a corner and what has that done for Chicago all these years?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1188943]He isn't fast enough to be a #1, he is at most a 2. His brother is just as good of a corner and what has that done for Chicago all these years?[/QUOTE]


Bears were talking about tagging him so I guess the answer is it’s worked out just fine for them

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188944]Bears were talking about tagging him so I guess the answer is it’s worked out just fine for them[/quote]

He's a good player but is he better than having a QB? No. Same as Kendall, I like the guy a lot , he's a team player that doesn't bitch and moan but I would rather lose him than have Colt Mccoy

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=WillH;1188936]Grievance is total BS story line.


Edit: the part of the article 4 section 8b that everyone seems to ignore is what comes after the part about good faith intentions to employ and pay the player at the franchise rate:

"The foregoing shall not affect any rights that a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if such termination, renegotiation, or TRADE is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or this Agreement."

It actually specifically says the team can trade or rescind the offer for that matter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I think there was also a section in there where a grievance could be filed against the player for signing the tag and said player not making an effort toward negotiations on a long term deal. I'm widely paraphrasing, but I remember reading that part. So, I'm not sure why this part hadn't been discussed. Cousins keeps saying he was open to negotiating with team, but then his camp would say things, like, "We're not interested in negotiating until after the tag is signed." I'm sorry, but I think there's been some very dubious dealings with Cousins' agent on this.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=WillH;1188936]Grievance is total BS story line.


Edit: the part of the article 4 section 8b that everyone seems to ignore is what comes after the part about good faith intentions to employ and pay the player at the franchise rate:

"The foregoing shall not affect any rights that a Club may have under the Player Contract or this Agreement, including but not limited to the right to terminate the contract, renegotiate the contract, or to trade the player if such termination, renegotiation, or TRADE is otherwise permitted by the Player Contract or this Agreement."

It actually specifically says the team can trade or rescind the offer for that matter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]
Yes you can trade the player, Miami may do just that with their receiver, no one is questioning the legality of a trade in principle, BUT when the Redskins went out, agreed to a trade in principle for a 10yr starting qb at a rate that makes the tag number prohibitive to our salary cap, any good lawyer will shred the good faith intention part of 4b, or at least keep it in the courts long enough to mess up our FA period.

All for a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. It's just not a good return on investment at this point.

The tag and trade ONLY works if all 3 parties work to make it work out. NOTHING from KC's camp implies he will work with the Skins in any way.

20 days left.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188950]Yes you can trade the player, Miami may do just that with their receiver, no one is questioning the legality of a trade in principle, BUT when the Redskins went out, agreed to a trade in principle for a 10yr starting qb at a rate that makes the tag number prohibitive to our salary cap, any good lawyer will shred the good faith intention part of 4b, or at least keep it in the courts long enough to mess up our FA period.

All for a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. It's just not a good return on investment at this point.

The tag and trade ONLY works if all 3 parties work to make it work out. NOTHING from KC's camp implies he will work with the Skins in any way.

20 days left.[/QUOTE] This comes immediately after the good faith part, "It shall be deemed to be a violation of this provision if, while the tender is outstanding, a Club insists that such a player agree to a Player Contract at a compensation level during the upcoming season below that of the Required Tender amount."

That section has nothing to do with employing them or not. It's just about the money. In fact, this is probably how/why Cousins and his agent dug in their heals about the Tag number being where negotiations should start.

Anyways, I still don't understand this argument about how this will hurt FA. The Redskins don't go big in FA anymore. So maybe your argument is that we should this year. Fine, but realize if you're going big and you pay too much for FA you are risking that compensatory pick that everyone keeps saying shouldn't be risked. I don't get the logic. Either you think they should make smart FA moves and not overspend which negates the argument about the Tag hindering FA, or you spend big and potentially get no compensation for KC anyways.

I guess my point is, you better have some really vital targets in mind to forgo the chance to get valuable compensation for KC. If you don't, KC will have more urgency to get a deal done if he wants either that big pay day or the right team.

If the team makes some big splashes in FA and they make a big impact to this team then it will have been worth it, but if they have the same low key FA and let him walk... that's some dumb pussy bullshit for a compensatory pick.


Edit: Also, Cousins camp is presumably leaking a lot of threats against him being tagged, while the FO has been silent. It stinks of desperation to me on KCs part. Maybe they won't want to play ball, but they might just have to.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=WillH;1188952]This comes immediately after the good faith part, "It shall be deemed to be a violation of this provision if, while the tender is outstanding, a Club insists that such a player agree to a Player Contract at a compensation level during the upcoming season below that of the Required Tender amount."

That section has nothing to do with employing them or not. It's just about the money. In fact, this is probably how/why Cousins and his agent dug in their heals about the Tag number being where negotiations should start.

Anyways, I still don't understand this argument about how this will hurt FA. The Redskins don't go big in FA anymore. So maybe your argument is that we should this year. Fine, but realize if you're going big and you pay too much for FA you are risking that compensatory pick that everyone keeps saying shouldn't be risked. I don't get the logic. Either you think they should make smart FA moves and not overspend which negates the argument about the Tag hindering FA, or you spend big and potentially get no compensation for KC anyways.

I guess my point is, you better have some really vital targets in mind to forgo the chance to get valuable compensation for KC. If you don't, KC will have more urgency to get a deal done if he wants either that big pay day or the right team.

If the team makes some big splashes in FA and they make a big impact to this team then it will have been worth it, but if they have the same low key FA and let him walk... that's some dumb pussy bullshit for a compensatory pick.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

First. The cap issue is that we have 48M right now (overthecap.com) KC franchise is 34M. Alex Smith is at least 17M but the new extension pushes it to 19-20M.
Last I checked 34 + 20 is greater than 48. So in order to play the tag game with KC and sign AS we would have to cut 6M in salary cap space for a risky ploy to up a draft spot 1 year and 1 round. And then we still couldn't try to sign our guys like Breeland or Zach Brown who aren't counted in our cap right now.

Further I don't think we need to make a big splash, but IF a player comes available, then it's stupid to sit in a self imposed cap hell and not be able to go after them.

edit:
Redskins FAs not currently counted in the 48M cap (would be lost in failed tag and trade effort)
Shawn Lauvao,
center Spencer Long,
linebacker Zach Brown Will Compton and Chris Carter,
cornerback Bashaud Breeland.
wide receivers Terrelle Pryor Sr. and Brian Quick,
tight end Niles Paul,
kicker Dustin Hopkins, defensive lineman Phil Taylor Sr.,
safety DeAngelo Halland
offensive lineman Tony Bergstrom

Not all of those are critical, but they all have to be accounted for.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

The bottom line is this:
IF KC was all in to work with the Skins to get his best deal and the Skins some type of trade compensation

AND

IF the Jets or Broncos - or another team Cousins agreed on - saw 1st or 2nd round value to have an exclusive opportunity at signing Cousins.

THEN

Tag and trade would make sense.

BUT

KC is not on board with it
The other teams seem to be willing to go the pure FA route

SO

It's a non starter to think that the Skins could pull off a tag and trade deal.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

eff it. Tag em. Let him sit there and sulk and not sign til july. We dont need any FA's. Build through the draft and just sign the rookies before camp. lol

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

FFS with this thread

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

lol i was being a bit of a jokester matty

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Meks;1188958]lol i was being a bit of a jokester matty[/QUOTE]


I hear ya, some aren’t though

Just want this over with

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/22/could-an-unexpected-team-enter-the-chase-for-kirk-cousins/]Could an unexpected team enter the chase for Kirk Cousins? – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Dallas?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188960][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/22/could-an-unexpected-team-enter-the-chase-for-kirk-cousins/]Could an unexpected team enter the chase for Kirk Cousins? – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Dallas?[/quote]

horseshit fluff attention grabbing none sense. -- kind of. lol

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Meks;1188961]horeshit fluff attention grabbing none sense. -- kind of. lol[/quote]

If JJ is desperate he may go for Kirk. Also they haven't really came out and said Dak is the franchise guy

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Florio is CONSISTENTLY and COMPLETELY out of touch with the realities of the salary cap. I can't tell you how many times the dude has suggested a scenario that is completely impossible because of a team's salary cap situation.

He has done it again. Dallas currently has $19.1M in cap space. They'll need a chunk of that for rookies. Even if they get rid of Bryant which would save $8M, they would still find themselves with only $27M in cap space.

Signing Cousins would take up almost all of that. They'd be down Bryant, and would have to make even more cuts just to afford their own rookies.

Doing so would mean they'd lose every one of their own free agents, including stud DeMarcus Lawrence. It's not going to happen. The Cowboys are much more likely to make roster moves like cutting Bryant so they can franchise tag DeMarcus Lawrence.

Florio's an idiot. He's ignores the realities of the salary cap for the sake of saying something that will get clicks.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188962]If JJ is desperate he may go for Kirk. Also they haven't really came out and said Dak is the franchise guy[/quote]

Shut up dude. You have no clue what you're talking about either.

"if JJ is desperate he may go for Kirk". You're spouting shit with no basis. Get educated on the salary cap before you post.

You post way too much without saying anything valuable. Like, ever.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188965]Shut up dude. You have no clue what you're talking about either.

"if JJ is desperate he may go for Kirk". You're spouting shit with no basis. Get educated on the salary cap before you post.

You post way too much without saying anything valuable. Like, ever.[/quote]

LOL So cutting guys like Dez Bryant wouldn't free up cap?? Not bringing back Lawrence isn't possible? You always have to worry about what others post lol dude go chill out somewhere, once again it would be different if I just made that up BUT ONCE AGAIN it came from credible sources.

Kirk Cousins continues to become a brighter and shinier object, doesn’t, at some point, Jerry Jones stir and say, ‘Dak Prescott… Kirk Cousins? Dak Prescott… Kirk Cousins?’

Also I am not a NFL WRITER and I don't pretend to be one on this site... If you come to me with a resume saying you write for a pro sports team then I'll say OK you know your shit, if not fuck off bro

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/]2018 NFL Team Salary Cap Space Tracker | Spotrac[/url]

Also GENIUS CAP GURU, If DENVER or AZ can afford KC why again couldn't Dallas?? I'm done arguing with you over this pissing contest shit

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

He’s not going to Dallas... man this shit has gone off the rails