Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=GridIron26;1315445]It's kinda surprising to see that we decided to allow Settle and Ioannidis walk away and not extend Payne altogether..[/quote]

Yeah, intriguing to say the least... We went from "can't pay 4 quality interior Dlinemen" to "we can't afford 2"?

Is there a possibility that the beef between him and Allen isn't as settled as we thought it was ? That would play a part in that decision.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1315469]Yeah, intriguing to say the least... We went from "can't pay 4 quality interior Dlinemen" to "we can't afford 2"?

Is there a possibility that the beef between him and Allen isn't as settled as we thought it was ? That would play a part in that decision.[/quote]

Could be, could also be that their initial conversation with his agent was a shock regarding his salary demands. I am supposing that Washington were looking at Vita Veas contract as a bench mark which would have paid him less than Allen. They seemed eager to resign him earlier in the offsesaon so something must have changed.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

Report: Commanders to exercise Montez Sweat’s 2023 option Wednesday

[url]https://sports.yahoo.com/report-commanders-exercise-montez-sweat-154133204.html[/url]

Shocker...

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

Allen got paid, Sweat is going to get paid, and very likely Young as well. Payne is the odd man out.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

Exactly. We knew all along that all four would not be paid. I concur with the three they have apparently chosen to retain.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=MTK;1315512]Allen got paid, Sweat is going to get paid, and very likely Young as well. Payne is the odd man out.[/quote]

Per The Athletic

"Washington is shopping Deron Payne"

Welp hopefully we get a 3rd for him

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=MTK;1315512]Allen got paid, Sweat is going to get paid, and very likely Young as well. Payne is the odd man out.[/quote]

You don't let Montez Sweat walk , he's got BIG time potential.

CY is a franchise player

Allen is the best of the 3.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1315518]Per The Athletic

"Washington is shopping Deron Payne"

Welp hopefully we get a 3rd for him[/quote]

I would hope to get more than that, the compensatory pick would likely be a third. Obviously key is to have multiple interested parties, but if it is only a third then you may well keep him as an above average starter in a contract year and pick up the compensation pick later

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1315519]You don't let Montez Sweat walk , he's got BIG time potential.

CY is a franchise player

Allen is the best of the 3.[/quote]

Yup, and pass rushers >> interior DL

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

I mean if this was the case…I’m good with it.

But shit, you let Settle walk for peanuts.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=MTK;1315521]Yup, and pass rushers >> interior DL[/quote]

That's true, but Payne is still a freak, and both CY and Sweat wear underperforming, big time, last year, so I hope the coaching staff identified clearly what went wrong and has a way to fix it.
Now one could say this abundance of talent at DT never really produced the results we were expecting. Hope they can get some value back, Payne is a monster.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[url]https://sports.yahoo.com/daron-payne-not-washington-future-095706670.html[/url]

Makes some pretty good points…..unfortunately.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=punch it in;1315533][url]https://sports.yahoo.com/daron-payne-not-washington-future-095706670.html[/url]

Makes some pretty good points…..unfortunately.[/quote]

Yup , like I said it feels like they are making it up as they go along

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=punch it in;1315533][url]https://sports.yahoo.com/daron-payne-not-washington-future-095706670.html[/url]

Makes some pretty good points…..unfortunately.[/quote]

What a whiner… That article is a waste of internet space.

[B]Why let each of your competitors know you now “have” to trade him?[/B]
When did they say they “have” to trade him? All they said is they do not expect to offer him an extension. They don’t “have” to trade him.

[B]Why haven’t they been trying to trade Daron Payne earlier in this 2022 offseason…?[/B]
Well, they did let teams know weeks ago that he [B]could[/B] be had in a trade.

[B]If they had traded Payne earlier, could they have not kept both Ioannidis and Settle?[/B]
Maybe, but it appears they didn’t want to go that route. Those guys were purely depth. Matty I did NOT look the same after his injury, and Settle only played 20-30% of the time. Who knows if he would even be productive with a bigger role. Sometimes I think we value depth guys too much. They are valuable, but not irreplaceable.

[B]Has there been much of a plan this offseason? Is it just me, or does it seem there are reactions rather than direction and vision?[/B]
They planned to upgrade the QB position – Check.
Early on they identified three players by name who they really wanted to bring back (C Sims, JDM, and B McCain) – Check.
They let someone else overpay for Scherff, and brought in Norwell and extended Leno.
Signed a quality kicker.
Exercised Sweat’s option.
Resigned or brought in 8-10 other dudes for depth along O-line, D-line, LB, and secondary.

Yeah, no plan, no direction, no vision – all reactions. Sounds like your run of the mill jaded Washington fan...

Some people just like to complain…

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

I think tampa would give us pick 60 in 2nd round.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1315539]What a whiner… That article is a waste of internet space.

[B]Why let each of your competitors know you now “have” to trade him?[/B]
When did they say they “have” to trade him? All they said is they do not expect to offer him an extension. They don’t “have” to trade him.

[B]Why haven’t they been trying to trade Daron Payne earlier in this 2022 offseason…?[/B]
Well, they did let teams know weeks ago that he [B]could[/B] be had in a trade.

[B]If they had traded Payne earlier, could they have not kept both Ioannidis and Settle?[/B]
Maybe, but it appears they didn’t want to go that route. Those guys were purely depth. Matty I did NOT look the same after his injury, and Settle only played 20-30% of the time. Who knows if he would even be productive with a bigger role. Sometimes I think we value depth guys too much. They are valuable, but not irreplaceable.

[B]Has there been much of a plan this offseason? Is it just me, or does it seem there are reactions rather than direction and vision?[/B]
They planned to upgrade the QB position – Check.
Early on they identified three players by name who they really wanted to bring back (C Sims, JDM, and B McCain) – Check.
They let someone else overpay for Scherff, and brought in Norwell and extended Leno.
Signed a quality kicker.
Exercised Sweat’s option.
Resigned or brought in 8-10 other dudes for depth along O-line, D-line, LB, and secondary.

Yeah, no plan, no direction, no vision – all reactions. Sounds like your run of the mill jaded Washington fan...

Some people just like to complain…[/quote]

I agree with your overall point, and I do think this offseason (depending on the draft, and if we add a couple of decent LBs or not) has been quite smartly managed so far.
But I don't think it's crazy to be worried that the supposed strength of this defense will no longer be after we lose 3 of our 4 interior DL guys. And I don't think it's unfair to think we may have been better keeping either Ioannidis or Settle, neither of whom signed crazy expensive contracts.

Now, a good draft, a solid vet MLB, and you won't hear me bitch about Payne not having been extended, they did need to be smart with the cap after Wentz trade.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[url]https://twitter.com/Commanders/status/1519710146703806469?s=20&t=Z5gNPrjZvHBJSfhF8GaZ8A[/url]

LOL

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1315539]What a whiner… That article is a waste of internet space.

[B]Why let each of your competitors know you now “have” to trade him?[/B]
When did they say they “have” to trade him? All they said is they do not expect to offer him an extension. They don’t “have” to trade him.

[B]Why haven’t they been trying to trade Daron Payne earlier in this 2022 offseason…?[/B]
Well, they did let teams know weeks ago that he [B]could[/B] be had in a trade.

[B]If they had traded Payne earlier, could they have not kept both Ioannidis and Settle?[/B]
Maybe, but it appears they didn’t want to go that route. Those guys were purely depth. Matty I did NOT look the same after his injury, and Settle only played 20-30% of the time. Who knows if he would even be productive with a bigger role. Sometimes I think we value depth guys too much. They are valuable, but not irreplaceable.

[B]Has there been much of a plan this offseason? Is it just me, or does it seem there are reactions rather than direction and vision?[/B]
They planned to upgrade the QB position – Check.
Early on they identified three players by name who they really wanted to bring back (C Sims, JDM, and B McCain) – Check.
They let someone else overpay for Scherff, and brought in Norwell and extended Leno.
Signed a quality kicker.
Exercised Sweat’s option.
Resigned or brought in 8-10 other dudes for depth along O-line, D-line, LB, and secondary.

Yeah, no plan, no direction, no vision – all reactions. Sounds like your run of the mill jaded Washington fan...

Some people just like to complain…[/quote]

Can't disagree with any of that.

My take on Settle? I'd be surprised if they didn't talk to him but they most likely said we'll talk after the draft if you're unsigned. Like you say he wasn't beating out Payne for playing time so can only be viewed as 2nd string. Not worth chasing. If we do trade Payne before/during the draft, likely they'd look at replacing him with a rookie. If we get no good offers, we keep Payne and let him walk for the comp pick. I'd actually be surprised if someone doesn't offer a better return than an equivalent 3rd rounder. I'd say a decent 2nd and 3rd/4th might be enough to pull the trigger.

I'm not ecstatic about their moves so far, but neither am I cussing them out. Nothing they've done is a WTF move, and especially picking up a veteran QB made sense because it freed up the draft to go after BPA/need rather than forcing in a rookie unknown quantity at QB (though I'd like to have kept that 2nd rounder if possible).

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1315535]Yup , like I said it feels like they are making it up as they go along[/QUOTE]


Good way to put it.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

Here's the real problem with the AJ Brown trade - Eagles gave him 4 years, 100 mil, 57 million guaranteed. Assuming you think Terry Mac is on his level the Eagles just reset the WR extension market.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=mooby;1315675]Here's the real problem with the AJ Brown trade - Eagles gave him 4 years, 100 mil, 57 million guaranteed. Assuming you think Terry Mac is on his level the Eagles just reset the WR extension market.[/quote]

Pay Terry 101 and 58 million.

He is absolutely everything you want from a football player, and plays a key position.

And our team needs him.

McLaurin on O and Allen on D. Amazing leadership on both sides.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=mooby;1315675]Here's the real problem with the AJ Brown trade - Eagles gave him 4 years, 100 mil, 57 million guaranteed. Assuming you think Terry Mac is on his level the Eagles just reset the WR extension market.[/quote]

TM should get something very similar, maybe a little more, possibly a little less. But that's the framework.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=Chico23231;1315523]I mean if this was the case…I’m good with it.

But shit, you let Settle walk for peanuts.[/quote]

I still don't understand why they didn't renegotiate Wentz's contract. Free up some space this year and let us work around Payne.

I also question Payne's value on the open market. Yes he's a former first rounder - counterpoint he's not an elite pass-rushing DT that can eat up double teams to free up edge rushers. I question whether we would get a third rounder comp pick for him at all, that might be his ceiling.

So the question now becomes - do we trade him for a day 2 pick today? Or trade him for a day 2/3 pick next year? No way we're getting a first rounder for him even if it is a 2023.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

No way we're getting a 1st round pick. I agree with you. He should be worth a 3rd or 4th round pick, which is ok...but maybe the best bet is let him play out the season and not worry about replacing him just yet.

I would be ok either way - trade him now or let him walk after the season is over. But if they are willing to trade him now, they better have a plan to replace what he brings.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=mooby;1315754]I still don't understand why they didn't renegotiate Wentz's contract. Free up some space this year and let us work around Payne.

I also question Payne's value on the open market. Yes he's a former first rounder - counterpoint he's not an elite pass-rushing DT that can eat up double teams to free up edge rushers. I question whether we would get a third rounder comp pick for him at all, that might be his ceiling.

So the question now becomes - do we trade him for a day 2 pick today? Or trade him for a day 2/3 pick next year? No way we're getting a first rounder for him even if it is a 2023.[/quote]

D tackle is thin this year, if you are gonna let him walk nothing less than a 3rd. If not, then take the expect comp and keep him

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

I wonder whether they already have a FA DT lined up if they can trade Payne. It is the only way it makes any sense to me

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=MTK;1315746]TM should get something very similar, maybe a little more, possibly a little less. But that's the framework.[/quote]

Yep. $26M per year is 4% more than Brown. $24M per year is 4% less. We're talking percentage points, just try to give him the same thing. If he asks for $26M say yes and be done w it.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=mooby;1315754]I still don't understand why they didn't renegotiate Wentz's contract. Free up some space this year and let us work around Payne.

I also question Payne's value on the open market. Yes he's a former first rounder - counterpoint he's not an elite pass-rushing DT that can eat up double teams to free up edge rushers. I question whether we would get a third rounder comp pick for him at all, that might be his ceiling.

So the question now becomes - do we trade him for a day 2 pick today? Or trade him for a day 2/3 pick next year? No way we're getting a first rounder for him even if it is a 2023.[/quote]

wentz is a year to year deal (team option). why lock yourself in to him? he's not going to agree to touch the contract unless you add MORE money and deadcap (if he doesn't work out).

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=That Guy;1315787]wentz is a year to year deal (team option). why lock yourself in to him? he's not going to agree to touch the contract unless you add MORE money and deadcap (if he doesn't work out).[/quote]

Don't have a link but somewhere Ron apparently said they look at Wentz as the multiyear solution - not just a 1 year tryout qb which is what his salary suggests (correct me if I'm wrong but his guaranteed money is huge this year and then very manageable in 2023).

I'm still trying to figure out why we are so tight up against the cap. Where is the money going?

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Washington is signing former Steelers’ free-agent guard Trai Turner to a one-year, $3 million deal, per source. Turner previously played for Ron Rivera in Carolina.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

JP Finlay
@JPFinlayNBCS
·
25m
Good review for Commanders from a O_line expert
Quote Tweet
Brandon Thorn
@BrandonThornNFL
· 26m
Really like how the Washington OL depth chart looks now. Good competition at guard likely ensures a quality backup there. Solid at OT & C with depth. Good coaching. Quietly an underrated unit entering camp/2022

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

In the last 2 years, we have done well with the leftover players after free agency and draft so I expect to see similar results this year. I really hope we will sign a couple of new LBs eventually. We cannot start the season with the current LBs corp.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1316049]Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Washington is signing former Steelers’ free-agent guard Trai Turner to a one-year, $3 million deal, per source. Turner previously played for Ron Rivera in Carolina.[/quote]

Oh yeah, this is a nice move.

Basically Turner, Schweitzer and Norwell cap hits are almost the equivalent of one Flowers (9.8 mill) cap hit if he woulda stayed.

No brainer

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=mooby;1315788][B]Don't have a link but somewhere Ron apparently said they look at Wentz as the multiyear solution[/B] - not just a 1 year tryout qb which is what his salary suggests (correct me if I'm wrong but his guaranteed money is huge this year and then very manageable in 2023).

I'm still trying to figure out why we are so tight up against the cap. Where is the money going?[/quote]

Yeah, but for now they can still [URL="https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/"]cut him after next year with no dead cap.
[/URL]And, while enthusiastic on Wentz, I do understand that he is in a prove it year, and especially with the perception of him, Ron is wise to keep the option of cutting him (while still being able to keep him for 2 more seasons/extend him) rather than locking his destiny to Wentz' right away.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=GridIron26;1316051]In the last 2 years, we have done well with the leftover players after free agency and draft so I expect to see similar results this year. [B]I really hope we will sign a couple of new LBs eventually. We cannot start the season with the current LBs corp[/B].[/quote]

-Knock Knock.
-Who's there ?
-Franck.
-Franck who?

-Franck Leesspeaking if they don't sign [URL="https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/inside-linebacker/available/"]one of these guys[/URL] before the start of TC, I'll lose faith in this regime. And I do think so far they're having a very, very solid offseason. Including the draft. But 2 years in a row of the same mistake would be beyond my understanding... But for now let's stay positive and say they've been really smart [I]not to overpay before the draft[/I], and they can still get a [I]quality guy on the cheap now[/I] !

-Well, Franck, that's a long ass name.
-I know, sorry, French hasn't had his coffee yet, anyway, have a nice day!

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

I get the feeling the o-line is going to be on the struggle bus.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1316060]I get the feeling the o-line is going to be on the struggle bus.[/quote]

pretty good coaching there, I think they'll be fine (unless massive injuries hit or the like). Wentz does like to hold it too long sometimes though, which can make everyone look bad.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1316060]I get the feeling the o-line is going to be on the struggle bus.[/QUOTE]Disagree. I think they did a solid job, letting Flowers go was a risky move but they then signed Norwell and Turner for cheaper than his contract.

Leni - Norwell - Roullier - Schweitzer - Cosmi
+
Turner, Lucas and Charles (who isn't starter caliber but showed some signs of improvement) as quality back ups

What don't you like in this line up ?

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

It's difficult to predict how the O-line will fare this year without Scherff. If my memory serves me correctly, I don't think they won a game without him in the lineup last year. Could have been a coincidence. I don't like Roullier coming off a broken leg, but Larsen proved to be a capable backup. If Norwell and Turner still have it, and Chase comes back healthy, I think the unit will be fine.

Re: 2022 Commanders off season thread part 1
 

I think O-Line is our best unit, contingent on Cosmi being in the line-up (healthy).