Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

Why are they interviewing Rabach on post-game? They could at least interview someone good. :doh:

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

But hey, at least we drafted 3 pass catchers with our first 3 picks this past spring. That was brilliant.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;501557]Why are they interviewing Rabach on post-game? They could at least interview someone good. :doh:[/quote]

Im hoping there to embarrassed to talk.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;501548]Kendall is having a great year. Samuels WAS having a great year, but the injury is clearly making a difference. Rabach is awful. Thomas is awful. Jansen hasn't been [I]that[/I] bad, but he's not agile enough to block someone with more than one move. [B] Luckily, on the right side, most of the rushers he faces only have one move, and he did pretty well tonight. [/B] Campbell has little faith in him and keeps flushing himself on plays were Jansen actually has pretty good leverage.

The OL is pretty good at run blocking, but it doesn't matter if teams can just stack the box on you.

We faced a lot of piss poor opposing coaches in the the first half of the season, which I think masked a lot of issues with the offensive line. We were able to grind out the fourth quarter because Campbell was BURNING people who blitzed us. So rather than fill the box and not blitz, these idiot coaches just backed way off and Portis just gashed them.

Randle El has been huge this year for us, but when he's hurt there's just nothing the passing game can hope to accomplish. Our offensive depth is beyond the realm of awful. Back in 2006, a lack of depth on defense killed us. We've totally fixed that problem, and we now have great depth on defense, but we need everyone healthy on offense to be great and we're just not.[/quote]

That's a good point about Jansen. He actually held his own tonight -- props need to go to him. Still, if he's in Washington in 2009 I'll be stunned.

I don't know if I agree that Randle El has been 'huge' for us this year. Zorn seems to be working him in the gameplan more than Gibbs ever did, but when you look at our overall pass production (granted blocking has sucked) he still hasn't given us much in terms of a #2 guy.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

I want to cry.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

It's been a while since we've looked this bad coming off a bye week. I'm thinking back to when Spurrier had two weeks to prep for the Cowgirls, and we did absolutely nothing. This is eerily reminiscent.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

I really don't want to see all the damn cowboy fans come back now after this. They disappeared for 2 months after we beat them in dallas.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

I'm sitting here listening to Rabach say the problem is execution. Not play calling but execution. Is'nt that what you pay the players for... execution? I'm so freakin tired of listening to guys like him saying, we know what the problem is, we just need to execute better. WTF are they waiting for!? Hell, I can learn the plays!!! I can't execute them either...why don't they give me a fatass contract!!!?

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

Last year on tape, I noticed that Jason Fabini had filled in for Randy Thomas with basically no dropoff. Yes, in the last two years, we've given extensions to Thomas and Jansen very foolishly, but I don't think it would hurt to go to Rinehart or Fabini at RG.

Of course, you can't have Rinehart and Heyer on the right side because that would be a disaster waiting to happen for creative DCs. So if Zorn wants to stick with Jansen at T, it may be time to change the Guard.

I don't see what Casey Rabach is giving us that any piece of trash Center off the street couldn't. What's so horrible about Geisinger that he can't give up two sacks to a nose tackle like Rabach did.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=SeasonTicketHolder;501564]I really don't want to see all the damn cowboy fans come back now after this. They disappeared for 2 months after we beat them in dallas.[/quote]

Ohhh, and u know it's gonna happen. Im surprised I haven't heard anything from Boys fans. I didn't hear anything from them after Sept. 28th. However, u know they will come out of the woodwork again.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=53Fan;501567]I sitting here listening to Rabach say the problem is execution. Not play calling but execution. Is'nt that what you pay the players for... execution? I'm so freakin tired of listening to guys like him saying, we know what the problem is, we just need to execute better. WTF are they waiting for!? Hell, I can learn the plays!!! I can't execute them either...why don't they give me a fatass contract!!!?[/quote]Well, good players execute more often than bad players do. That's the only difference.

Rabach still has value in the running game, but is that the type of team we want to be?

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;501515]Campbell and our recievers were playing great earlier, but in both of the last two games, they haven't produced in the way we need them to against either Pittsburgh or Dallas.

And the pass protection is totally abysmal. It's getting to the point where if you load up the box and take away the run against the Redskins, there's simply no time to get Moss behind the defense.

Look, either Zorn's serious about fixing this protection and we can get to 11 or 12 wins, or he's not serious about it, we limp to 10 wins and we're at the mercy of the tiebreaker system. This team does A LOT of things very well, but a few things it absolutely can't do are killing the offense.

Don't forget that Randle El's injury came at the worst possible time. Devin Thomas isn't an NFL receiver, James Thrash is very close to not being an NFL receiver, and there's just [I]nothing[/I] behind them. We're a very talented team with major flaws. The flaws can absolutely be corrected, but I no longer think the offensive issues will correct themselves. [B]We need to remove the players who just can't play at this level (Casey Rabach, Randy Thomas, Devin Thomas) from the offensive gameplan.[/B] Only then can the Redskins allow Portis, Campbell, Moss, and Cooley to flourish.[/quote]

Well who do you suggest we bring in for Rabach, RT and DT? Once the season starts there really isn't much you can do. The back ups are back ups for a reason. The personel changes can't be made until the off season.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=hooskins;501561]I want to cry.[/quote]

Would that make you Boo-hooskin? ;)

I feel your pain. Losing sucks such terrible ass. :(

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=53Fan;501567]I'm sitting here listening to Rabach say the problem is execution. Not play calling but execution. Is'nt that what you pay the players for... execution? I'm so freakin tired of listening to guys like him saying, we know what the problem is, we just need to execute better. WTF are they waiting for!? Hell, I can learn the plays!!! I can't execute them either...why don't they give me a fatass contract!!!?[/quote]

The problem is Dallas' d-line just played better than our o-line. You can't execute when the guy across from you is kicking your ass. Ratliff was just better than Rabach. Let's give Dallas some credit. They played a little better than we did.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;501578]The problem is Dallas' d-line just played better than our o-line. You can't execute when the guy across from you is kicking your ass. Ratliff was just better than Rabach. Let's give Dallas some credit. They played a little better than we did.[/quote]

The problem is this is happening every week. I hate the skins lost another game because they left to many plays on the field.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GMScud;501554]Couldn't say it better if I tried. The exact precise reason why we're not winning. We don't force turnovers or pressure the QB. That starts with D-line. O-line has been good run blockers, but they suck something awful in pass pro.

Neglecting the line scrimmage on both sides of the ball in the draft over the years has us where we are today. Mediocre at best.[/quote]

Well put GMScud! I was brought up believing games are won or lost in the trenches. We need to make some changes like drafting guys like Alex Mack from California next year instead of constantly going for "skill" positions that don't do us anygood because we can't protect worth a crap!

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;501578]The problem is Dallas' d-line just played better than our o-line. You can't execute when the guy across from you is kicking your ass. Ratliff was just better than Rabach. Let's give Dallas some credit. They played a little better than we did.[/quote]They did. Dallas won this game on the trenches on the ground. I tend to think they won it more on the outside in the air, but we're a ground team first, and Dallas beat us at what we like to do. That was the first problem right there.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

Listening to Zorn's presser, he basically called it correctly: the game was determined by the fact that they could get to our QB and we couldn't get to theirs.

He said that several deep plays (including an "easy TD to Thomas") were killed by pressure. He claimed that it's tough or JC if he has no time. But he noted a few plays (like the incomplete 4th down) where JC should have gone to another receiver. All this is pretty obvious, no doubt.

I went into this year thinking we're an 8-8 team that could be a WC if we play well and could be below 6 wins if we play poorly or have killer injuries. Let's get it turned around next week in Seattle. If we win there, it's 7-4 and home for the gints. It's clearly a must win next week--but thank god it's not the national night game!

At this point, we're going to have to dance with the date we came in with--I don't see the possibility of a big change on the o-line. Let's hope they can patch it up: Buges has worked miracles before. Thomas looked better today, IMO. Yes, he had the big 3rd down drop (thought he got held on that play, personally), but he made some plays. Kelley is the guy who needs to step up now, especially if ARE is hurt. It's time, kid. It would certainly be nice to see Davis, but that's less important right now.

Anyone who calls these guys busts is premature. Zorn is clearly not at all comfortable with folks who can't run the precise routes and Buges doesn't want a rookie TE to blow a blocking scheme. Those guys are learning. It's ok to bring them along slowly, IMO.

And those of you who think JC is a bust, I just don't see it. With time, he's shown he can make the plays. Even in this game, his mobility allowed a lot of stuff to happen. He also AUDIBLED to the QB draw--nice. And if Santana fucking Moss could have caught the ball, we might have won the game. That was a 50 yard pass that hit our #1 WR IN THE HANDS! Come on. JC is not the problem. He's not there yet, sure. But he's got the skills and under Zorn he's going to be a good one. Pass pro, everyone running the precise routes, and JC getting completely fluid on his 2nd and 3rd reads, and we'll be fine. Note that without O-line play, as all have correctly pointed out, it's moot.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=53Fan;501582]Well put GMScud! I was brought up believing games are won or lost in the trenches. We need to make some changes like drafting guys like Alex Mack from California next year instead of constantly going for "skill" positions that don't do us anygood because we can't protect worth a crap![/quote]

Here's a possibility. They drafted for skill positions this year; they'll draft on the lines next. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised to see an FA pickup on the o-line next season (after our usual cap juggling). Who's out there?

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

i feel a lot of this is on Campbell also...I'm prolly gonna get smashed but i think hes a lot of the problem along with the o-line...i love this guy and been behind him the whole time... but our offense isn't getting any better and he makes weird decisions with the ball at times...I'm not convinced he's the guy and idk....go ahead and kill me...

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=JWsleep;501586]Listening to Zorn's presser, he basically called it correctly: the game was determined by the fact that they could get to our QB and we couldn't get to theirs.

He said that several deep plays (including an "easy TD to Thomas") were killed by pressure. He claimed that it's tough or JC if he has no time. But he noted a few plays (like the incomplete 4th down) where JC should have gone to another receiver. All this is pretty obvious, no doubt.

I went into this year thinking we're an 8-8 team that could be a WC if we play well and could be below 6 wins if we play poorly or have killer injuries. Let's get it turned around next week in Seattle. If we win there, it's 7-4 and home for the gints. It's clearly a must win next week--but thank god it's not the national night game!

At this point, we're going to have to dance with the date we came in with--I don't see the possibility of a big change on the o-line. Let's hope they can patch it up: Buges has worked miracles before. Thomas looked better today, IMO. Yes, he had the big 3rd down drop (thought he got held on that play, personally), but he made some plays. Kelley is the guy who needs to step up now, especially if ARE is hurt. It's time, kid. It would certainly be nice to see Davis, but that's less important right now.

Anyone who calls these guys busts is premature. Zorn is clearly not at all comfortable with folks who can't run the precise routes and Buges doesn't want a rookie TE to blow a blocking scheme. Those guys are learning. It's ok to bring them along slowly, IMO.

And those of you who think JC is a bust, I just don't see it. With time, he's shown he can make the plays. Even in this game, his mobility allowed a lot of stuff to happen. He also AUDIBLED to the QB draw--nice. [B]And if Santana fucking Moss could have caught the ball, we might have won the game. That was a 50 yard pass that hit our #1 WR IN THE HANDS! [/B] Come on. JC is not the problem. He's not there yet, sure. But he's got the skills and under Zorn he's going to be a good one. Pass pro, everyone running the precise routes, and JC getting completely fluid on his 2nd and 3rd reads, and we'll be fine. Note that without O-line play, as all have correctly pointed out, it's moot.[/quote]

Don't be so sure about that. Even if Moss catches the TD, our D still has to stop them on the next drive. Dallas didn't even need a score to win, and they still jammed it down our throats.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=JWsleep;501589]Here's a possibility. They drafted for skill positions this year; they'll draft on the lines next. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised to see an FA pickup on the o-line next season (after our usual cap juggling). Who's out there?[/quote]

Well I hope that wasn't the thinking, because if so our FO is even dumber than I thought. Draft O-line first, then see what you can do with time to throw to the guys you have. If that doesn't work, THEN you bring in more pass catchers. Or we could have used just one of those 2nd round picks on a meaningful lineman on either side of the ball.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=johnwayne;501593]i feel alot of this is on campbell also...im prolly gonna get smashed but i think hes alot of the problem along with the o-line...i love this guy and been behind him the whole time... but our offense isn't getting any better and he makes weird decisions with the ball at times...im not conviced he's the guy and idk....go ahead and kill me...[/quote]

He can still improve his reads, no doubt. But often he does not have time to stand in and set. He's been hitting the relief-valve underneath stuff. But I don't think the plays are supposed to go there, when they work. He got hit an awful lot tonight and kept swinging. Sometimes, improvement goes in fits and starts. Remember, this is still Zorn's first year and JCs first year in the system. There are going to be rough patches. Let's see how he looks in Seattle. I'd be very surprised if he plays as bad as in the last two.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;501572]Well who do you suggest we bring in for Rabach, RT and DT? Once the season starts there really isn't much you can do. The back ups are back ups for a reason. The personel changes can't be made until the off season.[/quote]Yep. Pretty much the problem here.

If you, or I, or Smootsmack were running this team, we don't go into the season with James Thrash and two rookies behind the two starters. We also don't ignore Rabach's weakness all offseason.

I think the front office has done a pretty good job getting us to 6-4 in a transition year, but there were easy solutions (cough, DJ Hackett) available that we just ignored in the offseason. And now were here. Not 8-2 or 7-3, but 6-4.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GMScud;501595]Well I hope that wasn't the thinking, because if so our FO is even dumber than I thought. Draft O-line first, then see what you can do with time to throw to the guys you have. If that doesn't work, THEN you bring in more pass catchers. Or we could have used just one of those 2nd round picks on a meaningful lineman on either side of the ball.[/quote]

Yep, uncharacteristically, I was willing to give the FO a chance for drafting the way they did this year in the second round.

It's looking more and more that those were dreadful decisions.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=JWsleep;501586]Listening to Zorn's presser, he basically called it correctly: the game was determined by the fact that they could get to our QB and we couldn't get to theirs.

He said that several deep plays (including an "easy TD to Thomas") were killed by pressure. He claimed that it's tough or JC if he has no time. But he noted a few plays (like the incomplete 4th down) where JC should have gone to another receiver. All this is pretty obvious, no doubt.

I went into this year thinking we're an 8-8 team that could be a WC if we play well and could be below 6 wins if we play poorly or have killer injuries. Let's get it turned around next week in Seattle. If we win there, it's 7-4 and home for the gints. It's clearly a must win next week--but thank god it's not the national night game!

At this point, we're going to have to dance with the date we came in with--I don't see the possibility of a big change on the o-line. Let's hope they can patch it up: Buges has worked miracles before. Thomas looked better today, IMO. Yes, he had the big 3rd down drop (thought he got held on that play, personally), but he made some plays. Kelley is the guy who needs to step up now, especially if ARE is hurt. It's time, kid. It would certainly be nice to see Davis, but that's less important right now.

Anyone who calls these guys busts is premature. Zorn is clearly not at all comfortable with folks who can't run the precise routes and Buges doesn't want a rookie TE to blow a blocking scheme. Those guys are learning. It's ok to bring them along slowly, IMO.

And those of you who think JC is a bust, I just don't see it. With time, he's shown he can make the plays. Even in this game, his mobility allowed a lot of stuff to happen. He also AUDIBLED to the QB draw--nice. And if Santana fucking Moss could have caught the ball, we might have won the game. That was a 50 yard pass that hit our #1 WR IN THE HANDS! Come on. JC is not the problem. He's not there yet, sure. But he's got the skills and under Zorn he's going to be a good one. Pass pro, everyone running the precise routes, and JC getting completely fluid on his 2nd and 3rd reads, and we'll be fine. Note that without O-line play, as all have correctly pointed out, it's moot.[/quote]
Great post JWsleep, right on the money.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GMScud;501595]Well I hope that wasn't the thinking, because if so our FO is even dumber than I thought. Draft O-line first, then see what you can do with time to throw to the guys you have. If that doesn't work, THEN you bring in more pass catchers. Or we could have used just one of those 2nd round picks on a meaningful lineman on either side of the ball.[/quote]

I agree about using one 2nd rounder on the line--not sure why they didn't. My guess is that they didn't have linemen highly ranked on their board for some reason. They obviously stuck with that thinking: ranking over position.

Still, as I said, I am not ready to give up on Thomas, Kelly, and Davis. If those guys develop AND we draft and FA on the line, I'm fine with that. Obviously, that's a huge IF. Anyway, can't go back and redraft, I'm afraid.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GMScud;501595]Well I hope that wasn't the thinking, because if so our FO is even dumber than I thought. Draft O-line first, then see what you can do with time to throw to the guys you have. If that doesn't work, THEN you bring in more pass catchers. Or we could have used just one of those 2nd round picks on a meaningful lineman on either side of the ball.[/quote]

Exactly GMScud. You START with the lines and work your way out.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=JWsleep;501597]He can still improve his reads, no doubt. But often he does not have time to stand in and set. He's been hitting the relief-valve underneath stuff. But I don't think the plays are supposed to go there, when they work. He got hit an awful lot tonight and kept swinging. Sometimes, improvement goes in fits and starts. Remember, this is still Zorn's first year and JCs first year in the system. There are going to be rough patches. Let's see how he looks in Seattle. I'd be very surprised if he plays as bad as in the last two.[/quote]

your prolly right...it's so hard being a skin's fan for me...i forget that sometimes because they have played good at times...I'm just finally ready for the skins to not get my hopes up so much and actually do what i know they can do...

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;501599]Yep. Pretty much the problem here.[/quote]
Exactly! Zorn knows that we have a serious problem in pass-pro and it's probably going to be like that the rest of the season. Now the question is: can Zorn adjust his playcalling to compensate for the horrible pass protection?

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=RMSkins;501607]Exactly! Zorn knows that we have a serious problem in pass-pro and it's probably going to be like that the rest of the season. Now the question is: can Zorn adjust his playcalling to compensate for the horrible pass protection?[/quote]

Yeah, the way you adjust for poor pass protection is to throw shorter, quicker passing routes -- which is exactly what everyone is complaining about. So until they learn how to pass block, Zorn will have to get the ball out of Jason Campbell's hands as quickly as possible. And that means no deep ball.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=RMSkins;501607]Exactly! Zorn knows that we have a serious problem in pass-pro and it's probably going to be like that the rest of the season. Now the question is: can Zorn adjust his playcalling to compensate for the horrible pass protection?[/quote]

In response to a question about why we threw short so much, Zorn said he had to adjust to what he COULD run, given the pass pro problems. He also said they'll consider all their schemes and play calling to see what might be fixable. The high number of screens and quick passes to the WRs was a result of the poor pass pro tonight.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;501615]Yeah, the way you adjust for poor pass protection is to throw shorter, quicker passing routes -- which is exactly what everyone is complaining about. So until they learn how to pass block, Zorn will have to get the ball out of Jason Campbell's hands as quickly as possible. And that means no deep ball.[/quote]

What he said.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

Zorn needs to throw out most of those rollout plays and most of those side screen plays. JC could have had 2-3 more pics with those plays, and if our guys do catch those passes they get virtually no gain on the play. I am starting to doubt some the merits of the WCO. Poor line play is involved for sure, but damn our O line used to be pretty good. All of a sudden they suck? The system needs to be tweaked and yes younger O line are sorely needed.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;501615]Yeah, the way you adjust for poor pass protection is to throw shorter, quicker passing routes -- which is exactly what everyone is complaining about. So until they learn how to pass block, Zorn will have to get the ball out of Jason Campbell's hands as quickly as possible. And that means no deep ball.[/quote]

It's kind of a catch-22 isn't it? We can't throw deep because of the pass rush and they play closer to the line because we don't throw deep. On the play after Moss dropped the long ball, I think we got good yardage on the next play if I remember right. Even if we don't complete the deep pass I think we at least need to show it.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

Everything in passing is predicated on having time to throw. If you have to throw quick, you can't develop the long routes, and even your short routes will be well covered--LBs can cover in zone, if it's quick. But if you have time, folks can run free. We have not seen that. It's the line!

They did push it deep a few times and TRIED to other times. Those plays often ended in sacks or throwaways. Give us one more second! A few times JC got time, and you saw nice throws--the one to ARE was the best; the throw to Moss that he dropped wasn't bad. Otherwise, JC was under duress most of the game.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;501615]Yeah, the way you adjust for poor pass protection is to throw shorter, quicker passing routes -- which is exactly what everyone is complaining about. So until they learn how to pass block, Zorn will have to get the ball out of Jason Campbell's hands as quickly as possible. And that means no deep ball.[/quote]


I agree Beemy, the roll out stuff to the weak side has to be cut out, plus those lateral screen type passes. God JC almost was picked twice with those quicky horizontal screen passes. Coach needs to throw out plays altogether or tweak the WCO if it is going to work with this bunch. I can't just believe our veteran line all of a sudden sucks eggs. I think the system has some glitches in it.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

We fell victim to the Brad Johnson and brady Quinn dink and dunk formula...got really predictable with the five and outs..

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

I don't think our line sucking is "all of a sudden". I can't remember the last time I had a lot of confidence in this line. They got better toward the end of last year... but they could'nt have gotten much worse.

Re: Redskins vs. Cowboys Gameday thread
 

[quote=53Fan;501651]I don't think our line sucking is "all of a sudden". I can't remember the last time I had a lot of confidence in this line. They got better toward the end of last year... but they could'nt have gotten much worse.[/quote]

I think they played well in the after the giants game early. We did beat Dallas and Philly on the road, and the Cards and Saints at home. Plus, our run game has been good--that aspect of the oline has been fine.

But they've looked bad in the last 2 games, no doubt. And they are old.