Re: Obama Care
 

I heard Rush is staying because the island does not have any room because of all the liberals who said they would move if Bush got elected. Both times.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677645]I really wish people had the opportunity to live under a true oppressive government, so the complainers from both sides of the political spectrum (that would be liberals and conservatives) in this country would stop blowing things out of proportion. Come on, one thing is show displeasure or speak out against your government, which is your right, but another is to exaggerate and act like we live in a dictatorship. :doh:[/quote]

Poor thing. . .

The Federal Government nationalized or has bailed out: The airlines, the automobile industry, the trains, certain union pensions (coal miners), Wall Street, Fannie, Freddie, foreign banks, etc . . . Now they've nationalized the health industry, when they were the ones who effed it up to begin with. Dude, where have you been?

You probably have an image of Franco or Hitler in your head. That's so 20th century. Instead of the government taking over the corporation, this time the corporations took over the government. It's the same result, corporatism; or as Mussolini put it Fascism.

Perhaps you forgot the war without end they promised to get us out of years ago? Perhaps you simply think we have troops all over the globe for your safety?

There is no more civility left in me. The sooner this government falls the better. You defend it with your life. You can go vote for some puppet. You can willingly give it your money. Send your children to go die for it. You can listen to their propaganda, their filthy lies.

It's your country. I just live here. Don't ask anything of me.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677666]On the front of the T's can read

How Big Of
A F$%$ing Deal
Is Health Care

The Back
MY Premiums Doubled[/quote]

Do you provide healthcare for your employees?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677668]I heard Rush is staying because the island does not have any room because of all the liberals who said they would move if Bush got elected. Both times.[/quote]

For a second it sounded like you said that there wasn't enough room in the island for Rush' fat ass. LOL.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677670]Poor thing. . .

The Federal Government nationalized or has bailed out: The airlines, the automobile industry, the trains, certain union pensions (coal miners), Wall Street, Fannie, Freddie, foreign banks, etc . . . Now they've nationalized the health industry, when they were the ones who effed it up to begin with. Dude, where have you been?

You probably have an image of Franco or Hitler in your head. That's so 20th century. Instead of the government taking over the corporation, this time the corporations took over the government. It's the same result, corporatism; or as Mussolini put it Fascism.

Perhaps you forgot the war without end they promised to get us out of years ago? Perhaps you simply think we have troops all over the globe for your safety?

There is no more civility left in me. The sooner this government falls the better. You defend it with your life. You can go vote for some puppet. You can willingly give it your money. Send your children to go die for it. You can listen to their propaganda, their filthy lies.

It's your country. I just live here. Don't ask anything of me.[/quote]

Well then get out of my country. Plain and simple.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677641]Laugh today, cry tomorrow. What a shame. This would be the end of a horrible ten years but I know these jack-asses aren't done yet. Oh well, fuck it. There's still nookie and it costs nothing if your game is tight. Y'all can have this POS. You wanted fascism, you've got it. Pat yourselves on the back and don't blame me when the jigs up. I've moved on.[/quote]

Big boys don't cry...crying is for sissies.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677676]Big boys don't cry...crying is for sissies.[/quote]

and kitties, meow

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677671]Do you provide healthcare for your employees?[/quote]
I offer to pay a % based off their time working here. Right now only one is taking advantage of that but the other two their spouses job provides them coverage at a better deal. I offered them something but they both wanted to be paid more instead of what I offered. Not sure what's going to happen with one of them when her husband retires this year.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677676]Big boys don't cry...crying is for sissies.[/quote]

You've never been a good sportman Saden. You win. You may not understand it, but you've been winning since 2000. I don't see this government as worth fighting over. You can have it. I've not believed in this racket for awhile.

Poor things, you have your little flags, Christmas shopping, over-priced coffee, and you tell yourselves you're free. I feel sorry for you. Freedom isn't cheap petrol and a McMansion.

[url=http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html]They Thought They Were Free[/url]

I've made up my mind that my best course of action is to get on the doll like all the illegals and drug addicts. Then all of you goodie two shoe progressive Christians can take care of me. It's the right thing to do. Obama said so.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk;677680]and kitties, meow[/quote]

and dogs bark

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677683]I offer to pay a % based off their time working here. Right now only one is taking advantage of that but the other two their spouses job provides them coverage at a better deal. I offered them something but they both wanted to be paid more instead of what I offered. Not sure what's going to happen with one of them when her husband retires this year.[/quote]

How much do pay your employee that takes advantage of your offer? Have you been increasing the amount you pay them annually?

Looks to me you are one of the business exempt form the business tax and are eligible for a tax credit for providing your employees money towards health insurance.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677684]You've never been a good sportman Saden. You win. You may not understand it, but you've been winning since 2000. I don't see this government as worth fighting over. You can have it. I've not believed in this racket for awhile.

Poor things, you have your little flags, Christmas shopping, over-priced coffee, and you tell yourselves you're free. I feel sorry for you. Freedom isn't cheap petrol and a McMansion.

[url=http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html]They Thought They Were Free[/url]

I've made up my mind that my best course of action is to get on the doll like all the illegals and drug addicts. Then all of you goodie two shoe progressive Christians can take care of me. It's the right thing to do. Obama said so.[/quote]

Speaking of taking a course of action, here ya go:

[url=http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html]Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677666]On the front of the T's can read

How Big Of
A F$%$ing Deal
Is Health Care

The Back
MY Premiums Doubled[/quote]

You've received your new premiums already?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677672]For a second it sounded like you said that there wasn't enough room in the island for Rush' fat ass. LOL.[/quote]
Oh for a second I thought you said you were dating Barney Frank.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677689]Speaking of taking a course of action, here ya go:

[url=http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html]Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship[/url][/quote]

Like that means anything to me anymore. I'm a citizen of the world now. You get to take care of me rich yankee. :laughing- Sorry, I don't know how to say that in Espanol.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677688]How much do pay your employee that takes advantage of your offer? Have you been increasing the amount you pay them annually?

Looks to me you are one of the business exempt form the business tax and are eligible for a tax credit for providing your employees money towards health insurance.[/quote]

Yes I base what I pay based on how long they have been with my company. As far as a tax credit I have no clue at this point. It really does not matter because the increase in cost of health care will eat up any tax credit I get. This will probably then get passed down to the employee. If they wanted to pass a bill they should have started with ways to cut cost but that was not addressed and everything that was done will only increase cost.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677666]On the front of the T's can read

How Big Of
A F$%$ing Deal
Is Health Care

The Back
[B]MY Premiums Doubled[/B][/quote]

If that happens, there is a cure for that: it's called the "public option."

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677668]I heard Rush is staying because the island does not have any room because of all the liberals who said they would move if Bush got elected. Both times.[/quote]

Actually liberals that I know threatened to move to Canada because it has a rational health care system.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=tryfuhl;677690]You've received your new premiums already?[/quote]

Know they will not hit until around January when most businesses are up for renewal as they cannot raise rates until renewals. Its just common sense and everytime you hear the word mandate it means increased cost. You think all those things they have changed are free and will not drive up cost. I'm not saying if they are wrong or right just that they are going to increase cost.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Lotus;677700]Actually liberals that I know threatened to move to Canada because it has a [SIZE=4]rational[/SIZE] health care system.[/quote]

Yes they do ration their health care.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677696][B]Like that means anything to me anymore.[/B] I'm a citizen of the world now. You get to take care of me rich yankee. :laughing- Sorry, I don't know how to say that in Espanol.[/quote]

Just making it official.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677695]Oh for a second I thought you said you were dating Barney Frank.[/quote]

Great comeback. :yeahright

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Lotus;677699]If that happens, there is a cure for that: it's called the "public option."[/quote]
You really do not understand how insurance works. If the ins. companies have to raise their rates then what the goverment provides will have the same problems. Just look at the fine example in Massachusetts health care problems when they did the exact same thing as Obama just did. Their goverment option is costing more then the private plans but I guess we should keep ignoring this great example as its to late now anyways. We can have this conversation when the rates jump because it will be headline news.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Lotus;677700]Actually liberals that I know threatened to move to Canada because it has a rational health care system.[/quote]

Utopian expectation. I had a fungal infection in my nose that was eroding my skull. I got surgery from one of the two best doctors for my condition in the country scheduled a week out (meaning it was one week between when I asked for the surgery to be scheduled and the actual operation). Two surgeries and 12 hours in the operating room later the danger was gone (It was estimated that in 10 years I could have easily died from brain abcess). It then took two years of follow ups and another surgery to truly clear the infection. I never wourld have gotten such treatment in Canada.

In fact I remember seeing a story about a girl who kept having blackouts that prevented her from even leaving her house and yet she had to wait something like 4 months just to get an MRI. Never mind brain surgery, but a freaking MRI.

You want an idea of health care in Canada then look no further then how canadians themselves have portrayed it in the past.

Start around 1:28
[YT]kYhVJON9VXg[/YT]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;677724]Utopian expectation. I had a fungal infection in my nose that was eroding my skull. I got surgery from one of the two best doctors for my condition in the country scheduled a week out (meaning it was one week between when I asked for the surgery to be scheduled and the actual operation). Two surgeries and 12 hours in the operating room later the danger was gone (It was estimated that in 10 years I could have easily died from brain abcess). It then took two years of follow ups and another surgery to truly clear the infection. I never wourld have gotten such treatment in Canada.

In fact I remember seeing a story about a girl who kept having blackouts that prevented her from even leaving her house and yet she had to wait something like 4 months just to get an MRI. Never mind brain surgery, but a freaking MRI.

You want an idea of health care in Canada then look no further then how canadians themselves have portrayed it in the past.

Start around 1:28
[YT]kYhVJON9VXg[/YT][/quote]
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705]Canadian Health Care In Crisis - CBS News[/url]. I heard Peter Jennings tell how his mother who is Canadien had to wait for 3 weeks to get an MRI after hurting her back , she had herniated / ruptured disks in her back . Bet that was a freakin long three weeks !

Re: Obama Care
 

Even Canada's own leaders come here for heart surgery.


ST. JOHN'S, N.L. -- Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.

Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.

"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.

"In consultation with his own doctors, he's decided to go that route."



Read more: [url=http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700#ixzz0j2Q7xClT]N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.[/url]
The National Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today.

Re: Obama Care
 

^ I have quite a few friends from Canada who tell me that they've never had to wait for any procedure, no matter how exotic, and have always gotten great health care. The only thing that they complain about is the parking rate they have to pay near the hospital.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Lotus;677700]Actually liberals that I know threatened to move to Canada because it has a [SIZE=4]rational[/SIZE] health care system.[/quote]
Even the left here say they ration care.

Re: Obama Care
 

Canada might not be perfect but their system still trumps ours.

Re: Obama Care
 

Every health care system in the world has issues and there is anecdotal evidence for just about each one showing it's failures. Likewise, there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence in support of most of them.

In 10 years we will know if the system enacted this week delivers on its promises. Personally, I predict that in about 5 years, quality of care wiill decrease for the vast majority of Americans while their costs increase. Further, we will still be getting horror stories of inadequate care or unaffordable services. Not the same type as today, but horror stories still the same.

But "Yay!!" We have universal health care.

My advice: Start a health insurace company. Plan for 5-6 years of boom profits as mandated insurance provides a huge new customer base. After that, as costs skyrocket due to Dr. shortages, malpractice costs, and skewed market forces, plan on a two year wind down by increasing premiums to drive your customer base into the public option. Under most state regulations, your mandated reserves will carry you through a year or two for winding down. It's a short term plan, but properly played worth a few million. Good luck!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677736]Every health care system in the world has issues and there is anecdotal evidence for just about each one showing it's failures. Likewise, there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence in support of most of them.

In 10 years we will know if the system enacted this week delivers on its promises. Personally, I predict that in about 5 years, quality of care wiill decrease for the vast majority of Americans while their costs increase. Further, we will still be getting horror stories of inadequate care or unaffordable services. Not the same type as today, but horror stories still the same.

But "Yay!!" We have universal health care.

[B]My advice: Start a health insurace company. Plan for 5-6 years of boom profits as mandated insurance provides a huge new customer base. After that, as costs skyrocket due to Dr. shortages, malpractice costs, and skewed market forces, plan on a two year wind down by increasing premiums to drive your customer base into the public option. Under most state regulations, your mandated reserves will carry you through a year or two for winding down. It's a short term plan, but properly played worth a few million. Good luck![/quote][/B]

Tell me more.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Ruhskins;677712]Just making it official.[/quote]

What's in it for me?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677709]Know they will not hit until around January when most businesses are up for renewal as they cannot raise rates until renewals. Its just common sense and everytime you hear the word mandate it means increased cost. You think all those things they have changed are free and will not drive up cost. I'm not saying if they are wrong or right just that they are going to increase cost.[/quote]

Actually, for the first few years, it's going to look like a great system as lots of healthy people are forced to purchase coverage. It's only several years down the road, as cost increase in both cost per procedure and amount of people demanding procedures increase that premiums will increase.

Re: Obama Care
 

Also, have an expensive procedure that you are putting off? Don't. Plan your life so that you can get all the benefits out of your coverage over the next 3-5 years. If your current insurance covers it, get it. See what type, if any, of elective surgeries are covered. Want them? Get them in teh next 2-3 years.

Re: Obama Care
 

I was unaware that there would not still be private care and insurance.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677749]Also, have an expensive procedure that you are putting off? Don't. Plan your life so that you can get all the benefits out of your coverage over the next 3-5 years. If your current insurance covers it, get it. See what type, if any, of elective surgeries are covered. Want them? Get them in teh next 2-3 years.[/quote]

I was going to get plastic surgery when I turned 40 in about 16 or 100 years. Does that mean I should get it now? Lulz.

Re: Obama Care
 

You guys talk as if the goverment is now going to make the insurance companies cover every little thing that a person wants to have done. Thats not going to be the case. There will still be alot of new procedures or expermental stuff not covered. There has to be limits or cost will go through the roof even more then they are now.

I was dating a chick who's step mom had cancer. The doctors wanted to try one last ditch operation to try and save her life. The ins. co. said no as they did not think it would extend her life or improve her quality of life. So her dad paid the $100,000 for the operation and as the ins. co. thought she died within a month. There are just reasons why some things are not covered.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=tryfuhl;677751]I was unaware that there would not still be private care and insurance.[/quote]

There still will be. For a while at least. IMHO, as more and more coverages are mandated, however, private insurance will become to costly for all but the wealthy.

I hope I am wrong and I may well be. I am sure 12th and Saden have multiple links to disprove my cynical view. As I have said all along, I just don't think this law does enough to address the underlying flaws in the healthcare system which are stressing the cost for services. In fact, I believe it will do more to exacerbate them.

But I'm not really worried - insurance companies and healthcare providers have promised to cut 2 trillion in costs over the next 10 years. Add that to the promised 130 billion in deficit reduction from this law and we are in for some boom times people!!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677745]A[B]ctually, for the first few years, it's going to look like a great system as lots of healthy people are forced to purchase coverage.[/B] It's only several years down the road, as cost increase in both cost per procedure and amount of people demanding procedures increase that premiums will increase.[/quote]

I thought the mandate wasn't going to be put into effect until 2014?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677745]Actually, for the first few years, it's going to look like a great system as lots of healthy people are forced to purchase coverage. It's only several years down the road, as cost increase in both cost per procedure and amount of people demanding procedures increase that premiums will increase.[/quote]Based on the $ 750 fine/tax most single, healthy people that aren't worried about coverage will pay the $ 750 rather than the $ 1,400 + /yr. they would pay for insurance. So the scenario will be probably be worse regarding premium increases.