Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

man, its hard to put into words what im thinking. so many pros n cons.

we will most def have to resign him. the question i have is when, how much and how long.

do we wait until mid-season or so to see what we got and give shanny/kyle/allen some time to see him actually in our offense.

i think a 3 year deal would be best. hes 33, turning 34 in november. i think QBs can play at a high level for the next 3 years.

the contract probably is going to have to be from 10-18 mil/year range. if we franchise him, the tag would be roughly 20 mil from articles i read discussing if the raiders traded for him.

i think mcnabb is an upgrade over campbell who i really think just couldnt read defenses. alot of times, when he threw the ball, the receiver had to run his route and then be open before JC would trust what he saw and throw the ball.

i was really hoping the skins would find a way to get a protypical pocket passer who uses his mental aspects to read defenses, make proper reads and deliver the ball on time and accurate.

my impression of mcnabb is that he can go thru spells where he is painfully inaccurate.

this move gives a chance to go .500, maybe playoffs if the stars align. 2 - 3 years from now seems to be our window to be a contender.

i like the move, as i really think JC held us back. yeah the line sucked but when JC had time he sucked too. i think JC didnt receive the best coaching situation here but i also think his limitations handcuffed in-coming coaches as well (cant read D, no coach trusted him to make audibles probably b/c he couldnt read D schemes).

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;683050]I love this move. To all the doubters of McNabbs ability, you need to llok long and hard at his work. There is more positives to be taken from a trade of this caliber than negatives.

[B]With some more work done on the Oline MS and BA could turn our franchise around in a year[/B].

We as Redskins fans have not had a QB of this caliber for a very long time. Also I read a post above that indicated that this was a one year rental, do you really believe that DM5 will not finish his career here in Washington. He has at the least 4 great years left and as many as 7.

There are also many fans on here who have said that MS didn't win a SB without Elway, well guess what guys. We've got our guy now. I would trade 2 draft picks to become relivent in the NFL again in a heartbeat.[/quote]

I believe they could have done that anyway. Without McNabb.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

panther's have interest in Campbell

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

53 they just made it that much easier. And BTW we now know a hell of allot about what the eagles do on offense and defense.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

Well that didn't take long, Brennan goes back to #15 so Donovan can wear #5.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/team/index.jsp?d-49681-o=2&d-49681-p=1&d-49681-s=2]Team - Washington Redskins[/url]




Is Bidwell REALLY wearing #0? I'd love that but I think it's illegal now. No more Jim Otto #00s allowed. :D

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);683031]
LAST YEAR with a BETTER TEAM and BETTER COACHES[B] he did THE SAME AS JASON CAMPBELL[/B]! So, do you think he would've done better with OUR coach, OUR receivers, OUR offensive line, and an unfamiliar playbook!?!

Who's to say that with a better Eagles O-Line, better receivers, Better plays called by a better coach, JASON CAMPBELL wouldn't have done better as an Eagle!?!? Think about it![/quote]

one thing JC should be thankful for is that zorn then mitchell molded an offense geared towards getting the most out of JC stat wise.

of JC's 3500 passing yards, 2000 came after the catch. this percent is so much higher than any next qb in the league its ridiculus. i did the math a while ago but JC came out at about 68% of his passing yards coming after the catch where the qb average was in the mid to low 50% range.

our Fo reviewed tape after tape of JC im sure and came to the conclusion that they can not win with him. period. i love JC as a person. i felt bad for him when he was benched this year. but he is what he is, a qb who cant read defenses, a qb whom coached cant trust to allow him to amke his own audibles (after 5 years in the league), a qb who is hesitant to trust what he sees, a qb who is hesitant to throw the ball, a qb who has poor timing on routes, a qb who cant throw accurately enough or lead a reciever properly.

there was just way to many limitations that JC brings for shanny/allen/kyle to put their rep on the line for. this isnt zorn and sherm where they were told who is starting. these are competent respected football people who had reviewed and study more JC tape than any of us, and they made their determination. period. jc is a great guy but hes done with the skins.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

K.C. Joyner, rightfully, puts the smackdown on us here:

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5055786]KC Joyner - Did Redskins overpay for Donovan McNabb? - ESPN[/url] [Insider Only]

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mechanix544;683002]Also, i doubt we make this trade and keep our WR corps as is. I think Shanny and Kyle will want a proven #1 for our new QB to throw to. I dont think they make this trade, and think malcolm kelly (gimme a break) will be suddenly the go to guy at WR. We will make a move for marshall, or maybe nab D. Thomas from GT. The guy looks like a steal.[/quote]

I totally agree. You simply don't trade for McNabb and have him throw do our current wr's. Perhaps Cooley is being thrown around for a 2nd rounder and we deal that first rounder of Marshall and let Davis step in at TE. I'm telling you we're not done wheeling and dealing!

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;683050]I love this move. To all the doubters of McNabbs ability, you need to llok long and hard at his work. There is more positives to be taken from a trade of this caliber than negatives.

With some more work done on the Oline MS and BA could turn our franchise around in a year.

[B]We as Redskins fans have not had a QB of this caliber for a very long time.[/B] Also I read a post above that indicated that this was a one year rental, do you really believe that DM5 will not finish his career here in Washington. He has at the least 4 great years left and as many as 7.

There are also many fans on here who have said that MS didn't win a SB without Elway, well guess what guys. We've got our guy now. I would trade 2 draft picks to become relivent in the NFL again in a heartbeat.[/quote]

It's great that McNabb played well for the eagles but you cannot translate his success ounce for ounce to the Redskins.

Just because he had success with in the eagles offense doesn't mean he will have that same success here. We all know his skill set and the fact that he's a veteran QB but behind our line and new offensive scheme how is he going to translate?

...Right now his performance on OUR team cannot be quantified as good or bad. He's dealing with new variables across the board so predicting he'll be great is exaggerating at best.


BTW...as recently as last offseason there was talk about how great Haynesworth would be this year as a Skin. We all know his skill set and how he played with the titans but how did that translate to the Redskins? Being that he was offered up in trade talks I believe even Albert's perceived value suffered a loss.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683068]Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.[/quote]

Opinions are now "facts"?


I've actually had the opposite experience, many non-Redskin/non-Eagle fans I've spoken to (very knowledgeable fans also) think the Eagles are stupid for making this deal and we're better for it. I spoke to someone who has been a diehard Eagle fan for 31 years...who gave up on the franchise and can't stomach their mistakes and the recent dismantling of the team. They're not "re-tooling", they're in an all-out dismantling and rebuilding job.


Personally, my vote in this thread goes to "Don't know...wait and see". I can't vote yes or no, I'm conflicted inside, still in a state of shock. I just didn't see this deal coming.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;683071]I totally agree. You simply don't trade for McNabb and have him throw do our current wr's. Perhaps Cooley is being thrown around for a 2nd rounder and we deal that first rounder of Marshall and let Davis step in at TE. I'm telling you we're not done wheeling and dealing![/quote]I don't think Marshall is anyone's answer, but we're going to have to do something at the wide receiver position.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;683071]I totally agree. You simply don't trade for McNabb and have him throw do our current wr's. Perhaps Cooley is being thrown around for a 2nd rounder and we deal that first rounder of Marshall and let Davis step in at TE. I'm telling you we're not done wheeling and dealing![/quote]

What's wrong with our receivers compared to some of the receiver groups that McNabb has had in the past?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;683071]I totally agree. You simply don't trade for McNabb and have him throw do our current wr's. Perhaps Cooley is being thrown around for a 2nd rounder and we deal that first rounder of Marshall and let Davis step in at TE. I'm telling you we're not done wheeling and dealing![/quote]

Adams_Heffer

TO in DC today meeting with Shanahan. TO quoted as saying, I need a job too and he was my quarterback[tears optional].





ps fictitious dont quote for truth!

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Buster;683073]Opinions are now "facts"?


I've actually had the opposite experience, many non-Redskin/non-Eagle fans I've spoken to (very knowledgeable fans also) think the Eagles are stupid for making this deal and we're better for it. I spoke to someone who has been a diehard Eagle fan for 31 years...who gave up on the franchise and can't stomach their mistakes and the recent dismantling of the team. They're not "re-tooling", they're in an all-out dismantling and rebuilding job.


Personally, my vote in this thread goes to "Don't know...wait and see". I can't vote yes or no, I'm conflicted inside, still in a state of shock. I just didn't see this deal coming.[/quote]I'm not talking about fans, there are hundreds of knowledgable fans who have weighed in here on the Warpath.

I'm talking analyst opinion from people who would know, if as you say, it's possible to know.

I don't need fan opinion because I am a fan, and already have an opinion.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Audi;683076]What's wrong with our receivers compared to some of the receiver groups that McNabb has had in the past?[/quote]The suckage comes to mind.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683068]Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.[/quote]

How do you get boned hard by giving up a 2nd rounder for a top ten NFL QB that still has several good years left?? I'm amazed by that.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683068]Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.[/quote]
The questions are: Would we have picked a better qb with our 2nd rounder? NO, and: Are we better at qb than we were with JC? Unquestionably!!
Good move, now we need to make other good moves to regain picks, be it through trading players for picks or trade down from #4.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;683058]53 they just made it that much easier. And BTW we now know a hell of allot about what the eagles do on offense and defense.[/quote]

I'm not trying to argue with you, you either like the trade or are trying to look on the brightside. I'm trying to also but I'm having a hard time doing it. I don't think this was needed and will be interested to see what players are still on the board at #37. I would have been happier going in a different direction. Any coach who knows how to watch film could find out what he needs to know about Philly's offense and defense. I expected this team to be better this year with the added competition at RB and improvement to the o-line, which I think is key. I expected us to be better, even without McNabb.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Audi;683076]What's wrong with our receivers compared to some of the receiver groups that McNabb has had in the past?[/quote]

well i'd say jackson is better that anyone we currently have. but i think mcnabb will make out current guys better. or he'll make them look better than jc did.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683068]Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.[/quote]

Not sure who your sources are but so far today the reviews I've heard learn in the Redskins direction as to who got the better end. Most are saying the move is very high risk/low reward for the Eagles.

I haven't heard anyone say the Skins got boned.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683081]The suckage comes to mind.[/quote]

So our receivers are worse than:

James Thrash / Todd Pinkston ?

Greg Lewis / Reggie Brown ?

Donte Stallworth / Reggie Brown ?

I don't think so.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;683082]How do you get boned hard by giving up a 2nd rounder for a top ten NFL QB that still has several good years left?? I'm amazed by that.[/quote]

Even Andy Reid thinks they took the short end of the deal.

[IMG]http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif[/IMG]
[quote][B]Coach Andy Reid wanted to keep Donovan McNabb even if it cost him Kevin Kolb, a source tells Yahoo's Jason Cole.[/B]
"Andy thinks Kolb is going to be really good, maybe great. But he knows Donovan is great and probably will be for three or four years," the source said. While Reid has almost always been firmly in McNabb's corner, he knew keeping Kolb as a backup for the next few years was not an option. And if he really thinks Donovan will be "great" for the next few years, he probably wouldn't have traded him in the division.


SOURCE:
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AqL3Of_MZQoCjq.2iuzAT.85nYcB?slug=jc-mcnabbtrade040410]McNabb strong-arms his way to D.C. - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

via: [url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=704]Donovan McNabb[/url]
[/quote]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100405/capt.071b9305d980494293a6e628100c5840-071b9305d980494293a6e628100c5840-0.jpg[/IMG]

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;683085]well i'd say jackson is better that anyone we currently have. but i think mcnabb will make out current guys better. or he'll make them look better than jc did.[/quote]

McNabb didn't always have DeSean Jackson, though. He was perfectly fine without Jackson.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;683086]Not sure who your sources are but so far today the reviews I've heard learn in the Redskins direction as to who got the better end. Most are saying the move is very high risk/low reward for the Eagles.

I haven't heard anyone say the Skins got boned.[/quote]

Yes, but you're forgetting that when GTripp says something, it's a concrete "fact"!

[quote=Audi;683090]McNabb didn't always have DeSean Jackson, though. He was perfectly fine without Jackson.[/quote]

Absolutely, what we've been saying on this board for years is that McNabb and the Eagles never had WRs. Suddenly we forget that? Donovan has had Westbrook as his entire offense for most of his career.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;683083]The questions are: would we have picked a better qb with our 2nd rounder? NO, and: Are we better at qb than we were with JC? Unquestionably!!
Good move, now we need to make other good moves to regain picks, be it throught trading players for picks or trade down from #4.[/quote]You're hardly making an apples to apples comparison, but I'd say that Colt McCoy will be a better player than McNabb by 2011. I don't know if McCoy will make it to 37 though.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683075]I don't think Marshall is anyone's answer, but we're going to have to do something at the wide receiver position.[/quote]

well if he can get 100+ catches and 10 td's in 15 games with orton throwing him the ball then i'd expect him to put up comparbale or better numbers with mcnabb. but the line is still going to be a problem, regardless of whether we deal the 1st rounder or not.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683092]You're hardly making an apples to apples comparison, but I'd say that Colt McCoy will be a better player than McNabb by 2011. I don't know if McCoy will make it to 37 though.[/quote]
I know you've expressed your "mancrush" on McCoy, is this why you are salty about this trade? No McCoy @37? LOL, just kidding Tripp.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Mattyk;683086]Not sure who your sources are but so far today the reviews I've heard learn in the Redskins direction as to who got the better end. Most are saying the move is very high risk/low reward for the Eagles.

I haven't heard anyone say the Skins got boned.[/quote]I've heard a lot of uninformed opinions today as well, but it's staggering how little dissent is among the people who feed me my football information. I mean, literally, I haven't found an impartial observer who does this stuff for a living and likes this deal.

The knowledge gap re: McNabb could not be bigger between those who study it, and those who take their opinions from others. I don't say that to suggest football is an elitist game that only a select few understand (it's not), but that [B]in the case of this one player[/B] no one is really doing their homework before spouting off. It's obvious.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683095]I've heard a lot of uninformed opinions today as well, but it's staggering how little dissent is among the people who feed me my football information. I mean, literally, I haven't found an impartial observer who does this stuff for a living and likes this deal.

The knowledge gap re: McNabb could not be bigger between those who study it, and those who take their opinions from others. I don't say that to suggest football is an elitist game that only a select few understand (it's not), but that [B]in the case of this one player[/B] no one is really doing their homework before spouting off. It's obvious.[/quote]

You cited KC Joyner as your first and only source of opinion thus far. KC Joyner once said Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Luke McCown, and Tarvaris Jackson were the Top 10 decision makers in the NFL.

When you refer to "those who take their opinions from others" who are you referring to?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Audi;683090]McNabb didn't always have DeSean Jackson, though. He was perfectly fine without Jackson.[/quote]

i agree. as i said earlier, outside of tom brady, no one has done more w/ less than mcnabb.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683068]Talked to five football analysts that I really respect (not including myself). None are Redskins fans. None are Eagle fans. Two are Giants fans.

It was unianimous, 5-0, that the Redskins got boned hard in this trade. There is no one who I have talked to, who understands the game, who likes this trade for us.

That's just the facts.[/quote]

Well thats fine, but you can probably find 5 other analysts who say this is a great move for the Skins, its still opinions. What everybody can agree on is that this is an upgrade over JC.

I really really cant wait to see how Kolb plays for the Eagles. The pressure to perform is going to be thousand times greater on him than McNabb. The Eagles are a proven playoff team for a decade straight, McNabb did have something to do with that. Now lets see how Kolb handles that pressure in Philly, ohhhhh its going to be very interesting.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683095]I've heard a lot of uninformed opinions today as well, but it's staggering how little dissent is among the people who feed me my football information. I mean, literally, I haven't found an impartial observer who does this stuff for a living and likes this deal.

The knowledge gap re: McNabb could not be bigger between those who study it, and those who take their opinions from others. I don't say that to suggest football is an elitist game that only a select few understand (it's not), but that [B]in the case of this one player[/B] no one is really doing their homework before spouting off. It's obvious.[/quote]

Ok, is this Rush posting under GTripp?

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Buster;683073]Opinions are now "facts"?


I've actually had the opposite experience, many non-Redskin/non-Eagle fans I've spoken to (very knowledgeable fans also) think the Eagles are stupid for making this deal and we're better for it. I spoke to someone who has been a diehard Eagle fan for 31 years...who gave up on the franchise and can't stomach their mistakes and the recent dismantling of the team. They're not "re-tooling", they're in an all-out dismantling and rebuilding job.


Personally, my vote in this thread goes to "Don't know...wait and see". I can't vote yes or no, I'm conflicted inside, still in a state of shock. I just didn't see this deal coming.[/quote]

I'm with you on the wait-and-see.

However, it is difficult to argue that the Redskins got boned. If we trade JC for a 3rd or 4th pick, then essentially we got McNabb for a second round pick alone in terms of cost investment.

It is hard to argue that the Eagles got boned. They needed to move McNabb and no one was willing to give up a #1 pick. He could have walked without any compensation to the Eagles next year.

Although I remain shocked and unsettled, in terms of the trade dynamics itself it seems like a win-win for both teams.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683081]The suckage comes to mind.[/quote]


Once ARE left town so did all of our WR talent...

I am perfectly happy with our pass catching options and FA isn't over. They just need to be put in better spots (which is why we have the best offensive mind in the league, now).

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Audi;683097]You cited KC Joyner as your first and only source of opinion thus far. KC Joyner once said Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Luke McCown, and Tarvaris Jackson were the Top 10 decision makers in the NFL.

When you refer to "those who take their opinions from others" who are you referring to?[/quote]Okay, here's Cowlishaw:

[url=http://timcowlishawblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/rangers-opening-day-closing-ti.html]Tim Cowlishaw Blog | Sports News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News[/url]

These columnists aren't the people I've been discussing takes on the trade with. They're just mainstream sources. For every columnist who doesn't like it for the Redskins, there are two who do. But I'm also not citing columnists as experts here. I'm just telling you that people that I have reached out to are "lukewarm" about what the Redskins are receiving.

There's no anger: these are not Redskins fans. It's just being panned as more of the same from a franchise that has come to deliver it on a consistent basis. And I tend to agree.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683095]I've heard a lot of uninformed opinions today as well, but it's staggering how little dissent is among the people who feed me my football information. I mean, literally, I haven't found an impartial observer who does this stuff for a living and likes this deal.

The knowledge gap re: McNabb could not be bigger between those who study it, and those who take their opinions from others. I don't say that to suggest football is an elitist game that only a select few understand (it's not), but that [B]in the case of this one player[/B] no one is really doing their homework before spouting off. It's obvious.[/quote]

I guess a lot of us don't know football then.

I could really care less about stuff like Joyner's stats honestly. If he's looking at the trade only for pure trade value as it pertains to stats, fine. But there's more to the picture than McNabb equaling a 273 yard difference over Campbell.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

Well all I can say is that with the addition of McNabb, this makes the Redskins INSTANTLY a better team. Now is it 6 or 7 more wins better? I doubt it. But the QB position abosolutely got better.

However, I would be interested to see what KIND and LENGTH of extension that Allen negotiates with McNabb to get a better feel for his role. They could still be looking at Clausen in the first round.

Biggest need of the team is Offensive Line and Depth along that front. Putting a rookie behind the line that is there now would be devestating. It could be that McNabb is being used to groom a young QB for a couple of years, and in that time frame, build a line around the new QB as he matures.

At the end of the day, however, I would love to see McNabb FINALLY get a fair shake from the fans and media of his team. He has always been sorely mistreated by the fans and media in Philly. He has always deserved better, and for that I think he landed in the right place.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

McNabb makes Moss, Thomas, and the rest of the recieving core look alot better.

Re: McNabb a REDSKIN!
 

[quote=Chico23231;683102]Well thats fine, but you can probably find 5 other analysts who say this is a great move for the Skins, its still opinions. What everybody can agree on is that this is an upgrade over JC.

I really really cant wait to see how Kolb plays for the Eagles. The pressure to perform is going to be thousand times greater on him than McNabb. The Eagles are a proven playoff team for a decade straight, McNabb did have something to do with that. Now lets see how Kolb handles that pressure in Philly, ohhhhh its going to be very interesting.[/quote]That's my point, I didn't cherry-pick this, it was BIG NEWS. And I haven't talked to all that many people, but I haven't found one who would tell me in private that they liked it.

Keep in mind that it's far from a foregone conclusion that the Eagles will come out ahead, and I don't think anyone is saying that they love the McNabb trade inside the division from the Eagles perspective. I haven't heard that, at least. But the Eagles got good compensation for a player they weren't going to use anyway, and that's hard to argue.