Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1052938][URL="http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/keep-mike-shannhan-out.fb41?source=c.fb&r_by=9751075"]MoveOn Petitions - Keep Mike Shannhan Out Of The Pro Football Hall Of Fame[/URL][/quote]



...is this for real ???:doh:

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

People have too much time on their hands.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

The Giants granting Fewell permission to interview with a division rival reminds me of the Eagles trading its "franchise QB" donovan mcnabb to a division rival.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

Was there a danger of MS getting in the HOF?

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052932]disagree!! . . . they may have signed the players . . . but it was how Shanny decided to handle the situation of getting rid of the players that created the cap penalty . . .[/quote]
Shanahan did not create the cap penalty. He followed the league rules to a t. John Mara and Roger Goodell created the cap penalty. To enforce illegal collusion that most of the NFL owners participated in 2010.

lol, saying that Shanahan created the cap penalty is like saying a mugging victim must have robbed and beat up himself.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1052942]The Giants granting Fewell permission to interview with a division rival reminds me of the Eagles trading its "franchise QB" donovan mcnabb to a division rival.[/quote]

Sigh. You're joking right?

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1052942]The Giants granting Fewell permission to interview with a division rival reminds me of the Eagles trading its "franchise QB" donovan mcnabb to a division rival.[/quote]

Really? You're comparing an aging player who was on the downside of his career to a young up and coming coordinator?

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

I'm starting to talk myself into a Wisenhunt/Grimm combo. Grimm's record as an O-line coach is stellar, but he's never been a Coordinator. With 4 rings and a HOF jacket, I'm sure he'd have the player's respect. He's a run first, pound and ground guy.

Yes, Wisenhunt it a re-tread, but so was Belichick when the Pats hired him. I thought he got a raw deal in Arizona.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1052944]Shanahan did not create the cap penalty. He followed the league rules to a t. John Mara and Roger Goodell created the cap penalty. To enforce illegal collusion that most of the NFL owners participated in 2010.

lol, saying that Shanahan created the cap penalty is like saying a mugging victim must have robbed and beat up himself.[/quote]

Shanahan was warned by the league prior to doing so . . . and HE made the decision to roll the dice thinking the league wouldn't follow through for fear of "collusion" being thrown around .. . HE lost the gamble and the Skins were stripped of 36 million in cap space . . . regardless of whether or not you believe the penalties were justified, Shanny new that punishment would occur if they did not get the NFL to stand down as we all know they couldn't . . .

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=Jayroc24;1052896]I will say that I remember when Gibbs was going to call the 2nd time out in a row that Smith ran over and tried to stop him, do y'all remember that?[/quote]

i firmly believe gibbs did that to protect our kicker from feeling bad if he missed the kick and the team didnt win for ST bc of that against the bills. before the penalty it was a 50-50 chance for our kicker (suisham, cundiff or novak?). sloppy field?

i firmly believe gibbs made the decision to put people (or person) in front of a game.

no need to lambast me, call me silly or stupid or ask for proof.

just my firm belief. i think gibbs is that much a spiritual and paternal person that he tried to protect the kicker from a lifetime of guilt. right or wrong

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052953]Shanahan was warned by the league prior to doing so . . . and HE made the decision to roll the dice thinking the league wouldn't follow through for fear of "collusion" being thrown around .. . HE lost the gamble and the Skins were stripped of 36 million in cap space . . . regardless of whether or not you believe the penalties were justified, Shanny new that punishment would occur if they did not get the NFL to stand down as we all know they couldn't . . .[/quote]

either way, we'd be paying it somehow. whether in the cap penalty the league imposed or over the years the money was guaranteed in the first place.

there are a lot better and more biting reasons to call shanahan a failure than the cap penalty.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=Redskins_P;1052946]Really? You're comparing an aging player who was on the downside of his career to a young up and coming coordinator?[/quote]

I dont think Fewell is "up and coming." I certainly dont remember a time where he's had a truly fearsome defense. Of all the sub-par candidates we've been linked to, he's the least impressive of the bunch. He's a defensive version of Jason Garrett.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=over the mountain;1052954]i firmly believe gibbs did that to protect our kicker from feeling bad if he missed the kick and the team didnt win for ST bc of that against the bills. before the penalty it was a 50-50 chance for our kicker (suisham, cundiff or novak?). sloppy field?

i firmly believe gibbs made the decision to put people (or person) in front of a game.

no need to lambast me, call me silly or stupid or ask for proof.

just my firm belief. i think gibbs is that much a spiritual and paternal person that he tried to protect the kicker from a lifetime of guilt. right or wrong[/quote]

Gibbs is a great guy, but I think the most basic explanation, that he lost track of the situation, makes the most sense.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1052944]Shanahan did not create the cap penalty. He followed the league rules to a t. John Mara and Roger Goodell created the cap penalty. To enforce illegal collusion that most of the NFL owners participated in 2010.

lol, saying that Shanahan created the cap penalty is like saying a mugging victim must have robbed and beat up himself.[/quote]



A few cap gurus have said Mike's way of handling the cap situation resulted in how the penalty was structured.


Matty pointed out Mike had cap infractions in Denver too, so it's not like he's got a great reputation there.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=over the mountain;1052955]either way, we'd be paying it somehow. whether in the cap penalty the league imposed or over the years the money was guaranteed in the first place.

there are a lot better and more biting reasons to call shanahan a failure than the cap penalty.[/quote]

That's not what started this . . . my calling Shanny the reason for the cap penalty was a result of someone (whoever i 1st quoted) stating that the cap penalty was an excuse for Shanny's poor performance . . . since it is his fault, he cannot use it as an excuse . . . that's all I was saying

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=Redskins_P;1052946]Really? You're comparing an aging player who was on the downside of his career to a young up and coming coordinator?[/quote]

Well it's a dumb comparison, because Fewell cannot be denied a chance to interview for a head coach position no matter what the team.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

Matty, smoot, JR, RR, other knowledgeable posters: please let me know where I screw up this explanation:

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052953]Shanahan was warned by the league prior to doing so [/quote]Yes, Shanahan didn't go along with the league's illegal collusion. The fault in this matter is not his. Wild example: If you own a franchise restaurant, and the franchise tells you to hold down your employees wages below the legal minimum or else, and you refuse, is the franchise justified in punishing you? Collusion to hold down NFL clubs spending, in an uncapped year, violated the CBA between the NFL and NFLPA at that time. Without the CBA, the NFL faces a lot of difficulty from existing federal anti-trust laws.

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052953]and HE made the decision to roll the dice thinking the league wouldn't follow through for fear of "collusion" being thrown around[/quote]And initially, the NFL front office blinked. The league APPROVED the restructured contracts (for Haynesworth and Hall) that Shanny and Allen submitted. Because there was no salary cap that year, and the Skins and player agents agreed to the deal, the league had no legal grounds to reject the contracts. For NFL ownership to do so, to appear to violate the terms of the existing CBA (This wasn't a case of well maybe the cap was expired, the CBA in effect in 2010 specifically set that year as an UNCAPPED YEAR) , while negotiating a new CBA, would have raised plenty of eyebrows. So again, Shanny's contracts in question were approved by the NFL league office.

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052953]HE lost the gamble and the Skins were stripped of 36 million in cap space[/quote]Two years after the fact, literally on the eve of free agency in 2012, the league front office announced the cap "penalty" against the Skins and cowboys, for contracts the league had approved in 2010. And the NFLPA had signed the new CBA, one of which terms was that the NFLPA could not sue the league for collusion prior to the new CBA. (This is the official basis on which the NFL front office could say basically that the Players Association had agreed to the penalty. This is what shut down the NFLPA's attempt to sue the league after the cap penalty came out. How much was said between the front office and players union behind the scenes before and after, and between the front office and the Skins, I dunno.) Doesn't change the morality of the matter.

Again the fault in this is not Shanny's. Blame those two duplicitous crooks Mara and Goodell, Demaurice Smith (exec of the NFLPA), and the owners that voted to enforce the penalties.

[quote=SkinsGuru;1052953]regardless of whether or not you believe the penalties were justified, Shanny new that punishment would occur if they did not get the NFL to stand down as we all know they couldn't . . .[/quote]The NFL stood down in 2010, as described as above. That NFL ownership then proceeded in 2010-11 negotiations to get their ducks in a row, so among other things they could punish the Skins and cowboys for not going along with the NFLs warning about "taking advantage" of the "loophole" of the uncapped year. (Collusion, there is no better word for it in this case), isn't Shanny's fault. It's the fault of the people I listed above. In what degree, more knowledgeable people than me can tell us.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

I am........confident I was left off the knowledgeable list of posters as an....oversight

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=Hog1;1052972]I am........confident I was left off the knowledgeable list of posters as an....oversight[/quote]LOL, you and many more posters on this site than I could list, as more knowledgeable and probably smarter than me. :food-smil

I'm interested in you and others telling me where I misunderstand the "cap-gate" situation.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1052967]Well it's a dumb comparison, because Fewell cannot be denied a chance to interview for a head coach position no matter what the team.[/quote]

It's just more venom to be randomly and illogically spewed on an institution that is now more hated than loved by some of its erstwhile fans.

The Redskins have been losing for so long now, it seems to me that raw emotion has overcome reason.

And this tiresome thread marches on until a new coach is named.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

No HailGreen I think you're pretty accurate in your description, and for others making that argument I think it interesting that they think Shanahan made this decision on his own. And, as others have mentioned, even if he didn't front load the contracts, he would have had to incur cap penalties to get rid of the players anyways. So moot point.

That said, clearly he was using the cap penalty as an excuse because he knew his strained relationships were going to be the end of him in Washington.

Also I have other issues with him:
- McNabb
- Playcalling
- Special Teams
- RG3 playing injured

Just to name a few. So, good riddance, and let's stop rehashing the penalty thing.

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1052974]It's just more venom to be randomly and illogically spewed on an institution that is now more hated than loved by some of its erstwhile fans.

The Redskins have been losing for so long now, it seems to me that raw emotion has overcome reason.

[B]And this tiresome thread marches on until a new coach is named.[/B][/quote]

The process might take several weeks. Sigh. Several weeks of "Dexter Manley for coach!"

Re: Choose Your 2014 Redskins Head Coach (Volume 2)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1052973]I'm interested in you and others telling me where I misunderstand the "cap-gate" situation.[/quote]

Or perhaps you can wait until I publish my upcoming book, "The Complete History of Cap-Gate". It's Volume I of a two-part set.

Volume II will be entitled, "The Time Something Bad Almost Happened When Joe Gibbs Had a Brain Fart and Tried to Call a Second Time Out ".