Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132137]When I say serviceable I mean that it's a QB you can win with, but perhaps not a difference-maker at the position. I don't look at Cousins as a difference maker kind of QB. He is a QB that you could probably interchange out with 8-10 other QB's in the league and the team would likely have the same results based on the team around them.



The Top 4-5 QB's in the league make their teams better. Brady for example makes no names into stars for the few seasons they are catching passes from him. These are the QB's you can't afford to lose. They make a good team great, a great team elite.



Does that help explain it a bit better?[/QUOTE]


Who are some other qb's in the league u consider interchangeable with cousins? Im curious.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1132137]When I say serviceable I mean that it's a QB you can win with, but perhaps not a difference-maker at the position. I don't look at Cousins as a difference maker kind of QB. He is a QB that you could probably interchange out with 8-10 other QB's in the league and the team would likely have the same results based on the team around them.

The Top 4-5 QB's in the league make their teams better. Brady for example makes no names into stars for the few seasons they are catching passes from him. These are the QB's you can't afford to lose. They make a good team great, a great team elite.

Does that help explain it a bit better?[/quote]

To follow up on Punch's question, what is the average contract of the 8-10 other QBs?

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I have no idea about contracts. I am not even factoring in money at this point as I know QB's make a lot of money, often more than their actual worth due to it being the single biggest need on a team.

As far as QB's go, I'd say other than Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning (in his prime), Cam (at least the 2016 version), Phillip Rivers, Rothelisburger (at least for a stretch of his career), Eli Manning, most of the rest of the pack other than the bottom feeders like Cassel, *insert Browns QB here*, are interchangeable.

Basically I don't think Cousins is a Top 10 QB, but I also don't think he is a bottom 10. That leaves him in that middle of the pack category and I think a lot of those guys are interchangeable. They can captain the ship but aren't difference makers.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1132139]To follow up on Punch's question, what is the average contract of the 8-10 other QBs?

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url][/quote]

Well according to those stats:
K.Cousins
DYAR[B] Rk[/B] YAR [B]Rk[/B] DVOA [B]Rk[/B] VOA QBR [B]Rk[/B] Passes Yards EYds
472 [B]11[/B] 500 [B]11[/B] 5.4%[B] 14[/B] 6.4% 57.7 [B]21[/B] 444 2,874 2,937

TD FK FL INT C% DPI
17 2 3 10 68.6% 5/80

Seems like he falls in the 10-15 range. Using Overthecap.com's qb contract numbers that would put him in the 17Mill to 19Mill /year range with a total guarantee somewhere between 25 to 35Mill guaranteed.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1132105]It would be deserving for some of you fans for Cousins to land somewhere else and be the pro bowl player I think he can be..I will agree the jury is still out on him so to speak but in spite of the team around him He is playing very well..If you can't see that then you either don't know jack about football or you are a closet RGIII fan ! I asked this question before ..what QB do you think would make the redskins a top notch team now..like next week?? to the folks who don't like Kirk who would you bring in for the rest of the season of you could ..BRADY? ROGERS?NEWTON?Wilson?Brees?Manning?Dalton?Palmer?Ryan?..what QB could come in here without a run game[B][I][U] with no pass protection[/U][/I][/B] bad special teams and a losing culture thats going on a decade..who ?? Cousins is doing all he can do with what he has to work with! as far as the Dallas game IF Romo had not got hurt early in the year the Cowboye would have already clinched the division and most likely have at least 9 wins already..they have the 5th ranked D in the league ..its not like we got beat by a crap team .I bet you the Skins can get at least a number one pick for cousins now..dallas would love them some Cousins..so would a lot of other teams![/quote]

Whoa hold on there.Our pass protection has been pretty good this yr,run blocking is a different story.Skins are one of the leaders in fewest sacks given up

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132119]...Anyway I think anytime you draft a player, in this case a qb as you mentioned, that is not going to play anytime soon - when you have SO MANY OTHER NEEDS- it is a reach.[/quote]When do you think its okay/'not a reach' to draft a QB somewhere in the draft?

I wouldn't worry about it messing with Kirk's head. If Kirk is the QB you think he is, i'm sure he'll be fine.

[quote]...When GB took Rodgers, Favre was obviously towards the end of his career and it was a case where a really highly touted qb was inexplicably hanging around.[/quote]Scrathing my head....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132119]I said "hold colt, and get a veteran to back up KC". I meant collectively. I should have been more clear and said "another veteran" though. My bad. [B]Anyway I think anytime you draft a player, in this case a qb as you mentioned, that is not going to play anytime soon - when you have SO MANY OTHER NEEDS- it is a reach. Also it would maybe mess with KC's head.[/B] Where as if we stand pat with Colt and another veteran, KC knows he is the man. When GB took Rodgers, Favre was obviously towards the end of his career and it was a case where a really highly touted qb was inexplicably hanging around.[/quote]

Personally, I think it is unwise to depend solely on a QB who has been pretty much up and down, even in this year which is so far his best. Drafting a QB in the next two years should not be out of the question IMO. Other than Trent and Kerrigan, I don't think there is anyone else on this roster who is locked in at their position.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

If McC sees a good QB and it lines up BPA...take him

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1132144]Personally, I think it is unwise to depend solely on a QB who has been pretty much up and down, even in this year which is so far his best. Drafting a QB in the next two years should not be out of the question IMO. Other than Trent and Kerrigan, I don't think there is anyone else on this roster who is locked in at their position.[/quote]

Up and down? I haven't seen any "down" performances by the Qb in a while. KC has been solid in his first year starting. Great? No. But he has stabilized the position. Drafting a QB early is not the way to go. Get some better players around him, get a 6'4 stud wr, let's get another TE that can actually block and not hold and get PI's. Get a center and maybe another guard that can play right away.

This is how you get better, this is how your offense gets better. And some better playcalling wouldn't hurt either.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132140]I have no idea about contracts. I am not even factoring in money at this point as I know QB's make a lot of money, often more than their actual worth due to it being the single biggest need on a team.



As far as QB's go, I'd say other than Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning (in his prime), Cam (at least the 2016 version), Phillip Rivers, Rothelisburger (at least for a stretch of his career), Eli Manning, most of the rest of the pack other than the bottom feeders like Cassel, *insert Browns QB here*, are interchangeable.



Basically I don't think Cousins is a Top 10 QB, but I also don't think he is a bottom 10. That leaves him in that middle of the pack category and I think a lot of those guys are interchangeable. They can captain the ship but aren't difference makers.[/QUOTE]


Fair enough. I think that middle pack is a little more diverse than you - in other words - are they closer to being a bottom feeder or a difference maker? Imo Kirk is certainly middle of the pack now but i feel he is towards the top of that group. I believe if things are done properly around him over this off season he can be a difference maker.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1132143]When do you think its okay/'not a reach' to draft a QB somewhere in the draft?



I wouldn't worry about it messing with Kirk's head. If Kirk is the QB you think he is, i'm sure he'll be fine.



Scrathing my head....[/QUOTE]


What are you scratching your head about? That i think Rodgers drop in the first round was strange or that Favre was towards the end of his career? As for it messing with his head - I do believe he will be fine, but with so many other needs it isnt even worth testing the theory imo.
I think it is ok to draft a qb in the draft
A) when you dont have one who is worth a shit
B) when someone with the potential to be special falls into your lap
C) when you're qb is getting towards the end of his career
None of these, imo, apply to the Redskins in the upcoming draft.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1132145]If McC sees a good QB and it lines up BPA...take him[/QUOTE]


So second round with all of our needs there is a good qb, good ilb, good safety, and good center. The qb is bpa. Take the qb? I say .... Poppycock to that.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Cousins is veteran quarterback now. While he's still young this team is always scouting. If McCoy isn't going to be the starter or if and when his contract is up he may not re-sign. They should draft a young project with lots of upside to groom for the future.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132148]What are you scratching your head about? That i think Rodgers drop in the first round was strange or that Favre was towards the end of his career? As for it messing with his head - I do believe he will be fine, but with so many other needs it isnt even worth testing the theory imo.
I think it is ok to draft a qb in the draft
A) when you dont have one who is worth a shit
B) when someone with the potential to be special falls into your lap
C) when you're qb is getting towards the end of his career
None of these, imo, apply to the Redskins in the upcoming draft.[/quote]Interesting. I mean I couldn't disagree more, but to each their own. I prefer the Ron Wolf/WCO approach to QBs. QBs are so valuable that you should always have at least 1 in development. And I would prefer the FO not to backed into a 'need' situation, which imo is where your plan ends up.

BTW how does a team recognize a QB w/ potential to be special? I presume all franchise believe in all the QBs/players they draft.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1132142]Whoa hold on there.Our pass protection has been pretty good this yr,run blocking is a different story.Skins are one of the leaders in fewest sacks given up[/quote]

He had know time to pass against Dallas ..part of the issue is the RB kept missing blocks..they had to bring in Compton and kept TE also to help block.Cousins was harassed all night long and still did not play bad..The skins need a center bad. There are so many needs that i hope we don't draft a QB with a top pick. Reed is killing us with penalties also..whats up with that? It looks like the skins are going to let Kirk throw it more down the stretch so we are going to find out who Kirk is now!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132149]So second round with all of our needs there is a good qb, good ilb, good safety, and good center. The qb is bpa. Take the qb? I say .... Poppycock to that.[/quote]

BPA is the mantra in this McC life. You need to be bout this life

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

No way he would take a qb in second round bpa or not. Not in this life or any other.
I dont like it n either does Kirk.
[IMG]http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/531f780e35e9e5af26ae1ddc4a0f86c6.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1132146]Up and down? I haven't seen any "down" performances by the Qb in a while. KC has been solid in his first year starting. Great? No. But he has stabilized the position. Drafting a QB early is not the way to go. Get some better players around him, get a 6'4 stud wr, let's get another TE that can actually block and not hold and get PI's. Get a center and maybe another guard that can play right away.

This is how you get better, this is how your offense gets better. And some better playcalling wouldn't hurt either.[/quote]

I'm all for Cousins and yes, he's been more up than down. I'm not taking a side on the Cousins' lovers/Cousins' haters feud; just squarely in the middle that we should keep Cousins and he is the better option for QB of the future; yet keeping him doesn't mean that [U]one or two years[/U] down the road this team is not going to keep a QB.

Especially in the first three rounds, there are a lots of needs that I think this team could address in the next two drafts. But if Scot sees some QB he wants to pick up sometime in the next two years, I'm okay with it.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132157]No way he would take a qb in second round bpa or not. Not in this life or any other.
I dont like it n either does Kirk.
[IMG]http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/531f780e35e9e5af26ae1ddc4a0f86c6.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Did he lose a bet or something on this picture?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1132154]Interesting. I mean I couldn't disagree more, but to each their own. I prefer the Ron Wolf/WCO approach to QBs. QBs are so valuable that you should always have at least 1 in development. And I would prefer the FO not to backed into a 'need' situation, which imo is where your plan ends up.



BTW how does a team recognize a QB w/ potential to be special? I presume all franchise believe in all the QBs/players they draft.[/QUOTE]


Let me preface that if in round 6-7 there is a qb there that is someone they like than so be it. Im talking more about the first few rounds. However imo Kirk, Colt, and some kick the tires vet who is still lookin to collect a paycheck that we can get for cheap in FA is the way to go.
When i say "potential to be special" i mean if it is early on to mid draft and there is a guy our FO really really likes that they are shocked is still out there. Not just picking up a qb who is bpa because we want to experiment. We have way to many other more pressing needs rite now than qb to waste a pick on. And dont be upset when we dont draft a qb because we wont.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1132159]Did he lose a bet or something on this picture?[/QUOTE]


Yes. Lol. But he had coincidentally also just read what Chico said about him.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1132156]BPA is the mantra in this McC life. You need to be bout this life[/quote]

So sayeth [URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14600/scot-mccloughan-will-focus-hard-on-the-draft"]the word of McC[/URL], and word is bond son.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132147]Fair enough. I think that middle pack is a little more diverse than you - in other words - are they closer to being a bottom feeder or a difference maker? Imo Kirk is certainly middle of the pack now but i feel he is towards the top of that group. I believe if things are done properly around him over this off season he can be a difference maker.[/quote]

Well right, but I don't think he has shown quite enough for us at the fan level to say for certain that his ceiling is much higher than what he's shown in his better games this season. The hope is that the GM and Coaches know though, and will act accordingly.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132163]Well right, but I don't think he has shown quite enough for us at the fan level to say for certain that his ceiling is much higher than what he's shown in his better games this season. The hope is that the GM and Coaches know though, and will act accordingly.[/QUOTE]


Well i think it is fair to say that he is a hell of alot better than we thought he was last year. Not sure why that progression is so apparently over at age 27 but hey.
He might be at his ceiling. However his pattern of play seems to suggest otherwise currently.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1132154]I prefer the Ron Wolf/WCO approach to QBs. QBs are so valuable that you should always have at least 1 in development.
[/quote]

FWIW, I also think it is wise to have a young QB in development at all times.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1132166]FWIW, I also think it is wise to have a young QB in development at all times.[/QUOTE]


We do. His name is Kirk Cousins.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132167]We do. His name is Kirk Cousins.[/quote]

Stop pulling my leg! You know Kirk has arrived. He is our starter for next season. Now we need a veteran backup and a developmental QB for 2016.

Colt is fine with me as the backup, BTW. If Jerrah had signed Colt, the Cowturds wouldn't have lost all those games without Romo.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1132168]Stop pulling my leg! You know Kirk has arrived. He is our starter for next season. Now we need a veteran backup and a developmental QB for 2016.



Colt is fine with me as the backup, BTW. If Jerrah had signed Colt, the Cowturds wouldn't have lost all those games without Romo.[/QUOTE]


Lol. Yes i should have distinguished between developmental and developing. I just dont think we are in a position where we can afford to draft a "developmental" qb. That is a luxury teams that dont need two olineman, two d lineman, a safety, a blocking te, a wr possibly, a rb possibly, an ilb, and an olb can afford. To me we got a gm rite now that can build a winning team with kirk quickly if given a full compliment of picks. I believe SM can turn us into winners next year but he needs every available pick at his disposal.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

We should always draft the best player available..if that happens to be a QB so be it! The fact that we drafted Cousins in the 4th round and He is starting to play well makes up a lot of what we gave up for RG II1/2..WHAT IF we had not drafted Cousins at all..who would be QB now and how many picks would we have given up for that vet to come in here?? Im not saying Kirk is a top notch QB ..he is far from that but we could do a lot worse. He is the only reason I have any interest in this team now. Say we win 3 out of next 4 and make playoffs and he plays well would you trade him for a high number 1 next year ?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

IMO he's a .500 QB at best. He doesn't put fair in other teams DF's. he has weapons but loves his TE. We should of played RG3 period he has more potential.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Lord have mercy..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NYCskinfan82;1132175]IMO he's a .500 QB at best. He doesn't put fair in other teams DF's. he has weapons but loves his TE. We should of played RG3 period he has more potential.[/QUOTE]


Mr. Griffin is that you?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1132176]Lord have mercy..[/QUOTE]
AMEN Brother!
[QUOTE=punch it in;1132178]Mr. Griffin is that you?[/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Reading this thread is like trying to catch fog in a bucket.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Please you keep telling yourself he's our new QB makes you sleep better at night right.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

it's amazing how every excuse is being made for KC. OLine is young and lacks experience RG3's line lacked talent and size. Go back and read your old post about how this team was.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NYCskinfan82;1132218]it's amazing how every excuse is being made for KC. OLine is young and lacks experience RG3's line lacked talent and size. Go back and read your old post about how this team was.[/QUOTE]


Who is making excuses for KC he is playing great.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1132175]IMO he's a .500 QB at best. He doesn't put fair in other teams DF's. he has weapons but loves his TE. We should of played RG3 period he has more potential.[/quote]

I would be 100 percent behind starting RG3 if he had shown he could run the offense and make some plays with his legs..like Wilson is doing. But he had his chances and couldn't do the basics. Did you forget some of his performances last year? Tampa and San Francisco? Or the year before? He obviously wasn't getting any better in camp. The coaches saw that and made a decision.

It's not that KC is a great qb. He's not. He's "just a guy" right now. But that's better than what Griffin was/is. Hopefully KC can take the next step with a full off season. The Griffin ship has sailed.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1132175]IMO he's a .500 QB at best. He doesn't put fair in other teams DF's. he has weapons but loves his TE. We should of played RG3 period he has more potential.[/quote]In my eyes Kirk has played decent, journeymen level QB. Maybe down the stretch he can finish hot and put together some strong performances.

I agree Griffin has more potential, actually Griff has shown proven ability. But I disagree that Griffin should have played.....not with Jay, a HC that cleary didnt want or believe in him. Imo Bruce's nepotism lead us to hire a HC that wasnt nearly as committed as he should've been to the development of what was at the time the franchises greatest talent and assest. Either way spilt milk.

I think there is a degree of desperate optimism with Kirk because at this point he's the only option and that causes many to be view him as better then he's shown.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

*Sigh*