Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1159754]Snyder will always be more about selling jerseys / making $$$ than putting a wining product on the field. If we can do both, then great, but his priority has always been making that dollar first.[/quote]

idk if thats really true, I think he wants to win just as bad as we all do. It's a business first thats the problem.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1159754]Snyder will always be more about selling jerseys / making $$$ than putting a wining product on the field. If we can do both, then great, but his priority has always been making that dollar first.[/quote]

I don't think that's true at all.
1) a winning product translates to more jerseys sold in most cases.
2) his ego and loyalty/trust in the wrong people *cough cough Vinny* had him make stupid choices at times.
3) something most fans disagree with, is that other than Marty :doh: Snyder generally gave too much time rather than cut the losses too quick. So we had Zorn a year longer than we should, Vinny multiple years too long and there are other examples too. What that means is that the lessons he has learned took a decade + to sink in, when maybe it should have been closer to 8 years. Most new owners take time to learn how to own an NFL team.

Snyder has grown ever so slowly and I think he will be a quality owner for years to come.

He is willing to spend when a good player comes available.
He is now letting qualified football people make the calls on players (as much as ANY NFL owner does - they all stick their nose in sometimes)
He is active in league circles, and I think has a better reputation at this point
He actively supports the individual players efforts (ie Garcon's Haiti support trip, ST21's family and funeral, even being at RG3's surgery after the Seattle game)


Bottomline, there are FAR worse owners in the league. We just need to start seeing the long term results on the field.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Winning is the ultimate money maker. People forget that he grew up a Redskins fan, I can't imagine him wanting anything but to add another Lombardi trophy to the collection. With hiring McCloughan he proved that he's serious about getting it done.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1159754]Snyder will always be more about selling jerseys / making $$$ than putting a wining product on the field. If we can do both, then great, but his priority has always been making that dollar first.[/quote]

I disagree. How many years has DS spent big money in free agency? He did that because he wants to win. As opposed to Mike Brown, the Bengals owner who never spends any money and keeps giving Marvin Lewis contract extensions despite the fact he's 0-terrible in the playoffs. Why would you spend big money if you were trying to make money? Perfect example Josh Norman. Did you know he got a 75 mil contract with 50 mil guaranteed? That's 50 million dollars [B][I]guaranteed[/I][/B] that he has to pay even if Norman sucks. Why would he be willing to pay that much money if his goal was just making money? The owners who just want to make money are the ones that never spend it, like the Chargers owner and Mike Brown.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Although I'm a firm believer that people don't change, I think Snyder has definitely learned his lesson and is aiming for stability and long-term success. He knows as well as Gruden and McC that we won't win now, that this takes time. I think the RG3 deal was the last drop.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=MTK;1159769]Winning is the ultimate money maker. People forget that he grew up a Redskins fan, I can't imagine him wanting anything but to add another Lombardi trophy to the collection. With hiring McCloughan he proved that he's serious about getting it done.[/quote]

Agreed. It just took him longer than necessary to step aside and hire football people, empower them to make the football decisions, and allow them manage his beloved Redskins football team. As an organization they are definitely trending upwards, and I suspect the team will follow.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=J. Falcon;1159783]Although I'm a firm believer that people don't change, I think Snyder has definitely learned his lesson and is aiming for stability and long-term success. He knows as well as Gruden and McC that we won't win now, that this takes time. I think the RG3 deal was the last drop.[/quote]

I agree that DS has finally learned his lesson about how to win. What surprised me is how long it took him to learn the lesson.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

He bought the team in 1999 and didn't really change much until SM was hired. That's basically 16 or so years of basically doing things by a 'win now' approach. To me that is just pure stupidity and stubbornness from someone that's obviously very intelligent. I still do not trust Dan Snyder. He had no choice but to hire SM. After 2014 the fan base was pretty much revolting and eroding.

Many of the younger fans only know the Dan Snyder way of doing things. They don't know the Cooke years, where there was always a strong GM in place.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

The hiring of Scott doesn't necessarily mean he really changed, he just gave in to popular sentiment as fans were on the verge of bolting as things stood back then. As for making $$$$ , winning isn't necessary. The Skins were either 1 or 2 in Forbes most wealthy sports franchises on the planet during the previous decade and they sucked. Trouble is Dan really messed it up so bad that it will be years before we are good. Why did we end up with the likes of Zorn or Gruden? Nobody wanted to enter the hurricane of chaos. We chained the Shanahans to RG III and that was a disaster. If Dan really learned his lesson we won't go for sexy pics and he will let the football people run the show from here on out. It has been only a couple seasons for that. This off-season and next will be very telling if he did.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

There are plenty of more profitable ventures than owning a football team. People who buy teams already have a ton of money.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=FlyerSkin;1159789]The hiring of Scott doesn't necessarily mean he really changed, he just gave in to popular sentiment as fans were on the verge of bolting as things stood back then. As for making $$$$ , winning isn't necessary. The Skins were either 1 or 2 in Forbes most wealthy sports franchises on the planet during the previous decade and they sucked. Trouble is Dan really messed it up so bad that it will be years before we are good. Why did we end up with the likes of Zorn or Gruden? Nobody wanted to enter the hurricane of chaos. We chained the Shanahans to RG III and that was a disaster. If Dan really learned his lesson we won't go for sexy pics and he will let the football people run the show from here on out. It has been only a couple seasons for that. This off-season and next will be very telling if he did.[/quote]

What?? Years before we are good. We went to the playoffs last year and are playing for the 6th seed. We are one more win away from a 2nd winning season. Why did we end up with Gruden? Because he is a fucking good coach. Won't go for the sexy pics?? HUH??

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1159787]He bought the team in 1999 and didn't really change much until SM was hired. That's basically 16 or so years of basically doing things by a 'win now' approach. To me that is just pure stupidity and stubbornness from someone that's obviously very intelligent. I still do not trust Dan Snyder. He had no choice but to hire SM. After 2014 the fan base was pretty much revolting and eroding.

Many of the younger fans only know the Dan Snyder way of doing things. They don't know the Cooke years, where there was always a strong GM in place.[/quote]

We all have are opinions on Dan Snyder, but I think he changed that day he shit canned Vinny and hired the Rat. He brought in Bruce, and things have been different. We have not been the off season champs in 7 years.

The Redskins have a bright future. KC is 28 and has 8 - 10 more good years. We have 4 pro bowlers and 2 alternates. We are a couple of defensive players away from being a really good team.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[url]http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/127831/best-and-worst-qbs-of-week-16-rodgers-keeps-packers-surging[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1159795]What?? Years before we are good. We went to the playoffs last year and are playing for the 6th seed. We are one more win away from a 2nd winning season. Why did we end up with Gruden? Because he is a fucking good coach. Won't go for the sexy pics?? HUH??[/QUOTE]



Have to agree. It is definitely better than it was. I think that is almost completely due to the fact that we have a really good quarterback and a HC that compliments him.
Not sure how sold I am on what Scot has done? Going to take another year or two to get a better feel on the past two drafts. If I had to grade them now it would not be a great one. This upcoming off season is THEE time to address the defense We have a great offense that just needs a RB. Maybe an additional o lineman. Maybe a tight end. Though with this exact offense we can win alot of games. So show me that you can turn the defense around now while we are primed on the other side of the ball!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1159795]What?? Years before we are good. We went to the playoffs last year and are playing for the 6th seed. We are one more win away from a 2nd winning season. Why did we end up with Gruden? Because he is a fucking good coach. Won't go for the sexy pics?? HUH??[/QUOTE]
We already have a winning season again.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk and his agent better come back to earth after that collapse he had in the Giants game to give the playoffs away.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Bangee7;1160874]Kirk and his agent better come back to earth after that collapse he had in the Giants game to give the playoffs away.[/QUOTE]
He's better than most QBs today. He's going to get paid well it's the life of the business

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bangee7;1160874]Kirk and his agent better come back to earth after that collapse he had in the Giants game to give the playoffs away.[/quote]

He won't be here next year, i don't think there is any question in anyone's mind at redskins park.

I like Kirk and hate to see him go, he has been our best QB here in a long damn time, but i don't think they want him here, and he himself wants to be where he is wanted. Someone is going to pay him big money to be their franchise QB, i don't think it is going to be us.

The biggest question right now i think is who is going to replace him. I don't think its anyone on the roster right now, even though Cooley hinted a couple of weeks back that the thought process was that they felt they could get comparable results with a "guy like Colt" also, definatley not implying that it would BE Colt, just someone "like him". So maybe they go get a Colt-like guy / cheap QB in FA and build up the rest of the team. Not really sure.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1160883]He won't be here next year, i don't think there is any question in anyone's mind at redskins park.

I like Kirk and hate to see him go, he has been our best QB here in a long damn time, but i don't think they want him here, and he himself wants to be where he is wanted. Someone is going to pay him big money to be their franchise QB, i don't think it is going to be us.

The biggest question right now i think is who is going to replace him. I don't think its anyone on the roster right now, even though Cooley hinted a couple of weeks back that the thought process was that they felt they could get comparable results with a "guy like Colt" also, definatley not implying that it would BE Colt, just someone "like him". So maybe they go get a Colt-like guy / cheap QB in FA and build up the rest of the team. Not really sure.[/QUOTE]
I saw 3 reports that said the skins will tag him if no deal is made. Scot runs the show and he isn't letting a QB like kirk walk away free. He'll be there again next year

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1160900]I saw 3 reports that said the skins will tag him if no deal is made. Scot runs the show and he isn't letting a QB like kirk walk away free. He'll be there again next year[/quote]

How much would it be to franchise him next year?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1160906]How much would it be to franchise him next year?[/QUOTE]
Probably 27 or so

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1160909]Probably 27 or so[/quote]


24mil.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

My opinion on Kirk didn't change today. He's a guy you can build around and win with. Pay him.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1160975]My opinion on Kirk didn't change today. He's a guy you can build around and win with. Pay him.[/QUOTE]
I'm. Sold as well. He's a good QB

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Yes, lock him up for six years.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

If the tag is "only" 24 million and he won't sign a contract that pays him 20 million per year, then I'd tag him again next year. I'm not giving him more than that long term, based on his play this year in big games. Then you'd have to work on a plan for new qb in 2018 or revisiting his worth if he shows drastic improvements in certain, very important areas.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I don't think he's worthy of 25 mil but at this point there's no better option, give him 20 mil a year and call it a day. He's not gonna win games on his own but put a solid team around him and he can win games.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=mooby;1160997]I don't think he's worthy of 25 mil but at this point there's no better option, give him 20 mil a year and call it a day. He's not gonna win games on his own but put a solid team around him and he can win games.[/quote]

Agree. 5 years 100 million sounds like a fair deal to both sides to me. He isn't an Elite QB and that extra 5 million each year goes a long ways towards adding and keeping talent around him and on D.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1160975]My opinion on Kirk didn't change today. He's a guy you can build around and win with. Pay him.[/QUOTE]



Mine definitely trended down. Expected more from him. A lot more. He was absolutely rattled and it showed. He was off all day.
The first inkling was when all 350 pounds of Snacks Harrison came right at him and somehow Kirk did not even notice. The INT was an all time kick in the nutz.
Though I do agree that you can win with him. He can certainly play we have all seen it.
My trust factor is not what it was but whatever.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

He still finished 3rd in passing. Pretty good

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Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1161022]He still finished 3rd in passing. Pretty good

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



Got a little Vinny Testaverde ring to it. Lol.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I went back and watched the entire game again..say what you want to BUT Kirk Cousins is the reason we lost this game..On the first int he missed a wide open Crowder for Td. He in my opinion is NOT a elite QB and never will be..is he better than average ..YES he is..but I'm not sure that is worth what he will cost..I'm not sure he will be signed long term .maybe this is why he has not been signed so far..Somebody knows something and don't be surprised if Cousins plays another year at franchise tag then moves on..Truth is we need a big time elite QB and until we get that we should not mortgage the farm on Cousins. he can't take us to a super bowl..no way! he is at best a mid pack 9-7, 10-6 guy who never wins the big game.I have seen enough if he can't get it together to beat A panther team who was out of playoffs and a giants team who put up 13 points then why would he deserve a 20 plus million dollar salary?? Guys I was a big Cousins supporter..was...not any more.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1161025]I went back and watched the entire game again..say what you want to BUT Kirk Cousins is the reason we lost this game..On the first int he missed a wide open Crowder for Td. He in my opinion is NOT a elite QB and never will be..is he better than average ..YES he is..but I'm not sure that is worth what he will cost..I'm not sure he will be signed long term .maybe this is why he has not been signed so far..Somebody knows something and don't be surprised if Cousins plays another year at franchise tag then moves on..Truth is we need a big time elite QB and until we get that we should not mortgage the farm on Cousins. he can't take us to a super bowl..no way! he is at best a mid pack 9-7, 10-6 guy who never wins the big game.I have seen enough if he can't get it together to beat A panther team who was out of playoffs and a giants team who put up 13 points then why would he deserve a 20 plus million dollar salary?? Guys I was a big Cousins supporter..was...not any more.[/QUOTE]
Problem is, who do we go get?? Lynch or simien in a trade? That's about all we got.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

KC lost a few million off his contract but the Skins are still his most likely landing place

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Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1160975]My opinion on Kirk didn't change today. He's a guy you can build around and win with. Pay him.[/QUOTE]


I don't understand this indifference. I've heard this more than once on the radio and in some articles before and after the game.

This is the situation that the Redskins were working so hard on- starting in OTAs during the summer. And they let all that hard work go to waste. So in the most important game to substantially prove to everyone that the Redskins are finally becoming contenders year in and year out, Cousins performs poorly. And this doesn't mean anything? Are all these people being obtuse or delusional?

This game meant a lot to everyone- involved with the Redskins and fans. But when we are looking at Cousins' performance in it, it doesn't matter?!? Gotta call BS when I see or hear it.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Went to 3 games this year

- vs. Dallas - He stunk up the joint missed on 3 deep balls that would've been TD's, definitely Kirk cost us that one.

- vs. Green Bay - Fun one to be at, but he looked mediocre until about 4 minutes to go

- vs. Carolina - He was Mark Sanchez.

Can't suffer through this anymore. Let him walk. He couldn't get us 2 TD's that would've sent us to Seattle. Pathetic. Our D really stepped up and Kirk couldn't deliver. Hard to blame anyone else, even with Jay's usual T.O. snafu end of 1st half.

I really hope they let him walk, and put that money into the trenches.

20/24 mil? no freakin way. Unless they can get him for 14-15M which they can't. Done with this choke artist. Still better than RG3 ofc, but is constantly missing wide open receivers for would be TD's. You don't reward those kind of mistakes with a Rogers or Big Ben type contract. Let the Browns or someone else take him.

I'd rather go with Colt next year for 1-2M. Let McCloughhy work his magic and see what happens.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=InsanePianist21;1161049]Went to 3 games this year



- vs. Dallas - He stunk up the joint missed on 3 deep balls that would've been TD's, definitely Kirk cost us that one.



- vs. Green Bay - Fun one to be at, but he looked mediocre until about 4 minutes to go



- vs. Carolina - He was Mark Sanchez.



Can't suffer through this anymore. Let him walk. He couldn't get us 2 TD's that would've sent us to Seattle. Pathetic. Our D really stepped up and Kirk couldn't deliver. Hard to blame anyone else, even with Jay's usual T.O. snafu end of 1st half.



I really hope they let him walk, and put that money into the trenches.



20/24 mil? no freakin way. Unless they can get him for 14-15M which they can't. Done with this choke artist. Still better than RG3 ofc, but is constantly missing wide open receivers for would be TD's. You don't reward those kind of mistakes with a Rogers or Big Ben type contract. Let the Browns or Rams take him.



I'd rather go with Colt next year for 1-2M. Let McCloughhy work his magic and see what happens.[/QUOTE]



I am pretty much leaning this way too. KC is not worth the money they are going to give him.
Scot working his magic though? I guess. Have not seen magic for the first couple years. Dude is firing blanks. There is really not a single player, coach, or front office guy that I consider magic right now.
That whole "there is a new attitude at Redskins Park " thing sounds nice but it is bullshit. This is the same mediocre team with the ability to switch gears and become piss poor at any moment that i have been watching for the last 20 something years.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1161052]I am pretty much leaning this way too. KC is not worth the money they are going to give him.
Scot working his magic though? I guess. Have not seen magic for the first couple years. Dude is firing blanks. There is really not a single player, coach, or front office guy that I consider magic right now.
That whole "there is a new attitude at Redskins Park " thing sounds nice but it is bullshit. This is the same mediocre team with the ability to switch gears and become piss poor at any moment that i have been watching for the last 20 something years.[/quote]

Punch this is a great post and really sums up how a lot of people must feel right now. I don't know that we ever saw anything "different" this year - like you said, we have always been a team that can play great football but at a moments notice turns into a shit team from top to bottom. We are still consistently over matched, and out-coached week in and week out.

I like Jay but i get so tired of hearing him say every week "we were out coached". That's on HIM to fix, and so far he doesn't seem to be able to do it.

Question on Cousins - hearing lots of grumblings this morning on message board and twitter and the like that say the Skins are going to franchise tag him again - what will then be his price for Franchise tag #2, and can the Redskins keep tagging Cousins instead of signing him long-term?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

If you really think Kirk single handedly lost the game yesterday you are nuts. He had constant pressure in his face, I'd place more of the blame for the loss on the OL than anything.

And oh yeah, the Giants D is pretty damn good for anyone who wasn't paying attention all year. It's definitely a D they could ride all the way to Houston.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161044]I don't understand this indifference. I've heard this more than once on the radio and in some articles before and after the game.

This is the situation that the Redskins were working so hard on- starting in OTAs during the summer. And they let all that hard work go to waste. So in the most important game to substantially prove to everyone that the Redskins are finally becoming contenders year in and year out, Cousins performs poorly. And this doesn't mean anything? Are all these people being obtuse or delusional?

This game meant a lot to everyone- involved with the Redskins and fans. But when we are looking at Cousins' performance in it, it doesn't matter?!? Gotta call BS when I see or hear it.[/QUOTE]



It's not indifference it's called looking at the big picture and his entire body of work, and not just cherry picking his down performances.

It's also looking at what else is out there and knowing just how hard it is to find a quality QB.

Also, cap room is not going to be an issue. So pay the guy and lock up the most important spot on the field, and let's move on to fixing the D.