Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1254074]As expected you are moving the discussion of your dishonesty. And if you just had facts and data..



You are the minority about the name. Nothing supports it as offensive or racist...no polls, interviews, data, etc. I’ve been told words and symbols change over time...redskins if it was offensive hasn’t been in generations. When you hear Redskins” it’s ONLY meaning is player /team for the professional Sports team in DC.[/QUOTE]



Because those Native Americans with signs that say we are not mascots don’t have a say? Come on man. Do I think it is tantamount to a swastika? No. It has falsely endeared itself into the minds of football fans. Though at one time it was. Do I think anyone of us hates native Americans? No. But if there are Native Americans who are offended by it than change it. Someone’s feelings are more important than the nickname of a football team I root for. If that makes me a snowflake liberal dick face im cool with it.

Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

And just for the record I have known one Native American pretty well. When I lived in Tahoe. Her name was Mary. Sweetheart of a lady. Huge Skins fan. If some other sweetheart of a lady is offended by it than scrap it. Call me a bleeding heart idc. Im not going down the rabbit hole of than cowboys are offended and than we will all have numbers as names and all that bologna. Redskin does have roots in racism. I dont care how long ago. I think that taking down statues and changing names may be superficial in a way. It is actions that really count but if you are going to chop down the racist tree than chop down the whole thing roots and all. Stumps are a tripping hazard and an eye sore.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

Saw a good one on Facebook. Washington Possoms. Because we play dead at home and get killed on the road.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=Chico23231;1254074]As expected you are moving the discussion of your dishonesty. And if you just had facts and data...[/quote]

LOL, seriously, you of all poster's???:stop:

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=The_Hangman_C_Hanburger;1253938]Maryland and DC are bastions of bullshit. Loudon County/Dulles AP area has all the high speed infrastructure to support the team without all the crime that comes from the RFK/ SE Washington area.[/quote]

Jack Kent Cook didn't think so. You seem to forget that the deal he got from Maryland was decent but Maryland covered their ass ,if the Skins break the lease they must repay all infrastructure money and yes Danny is wealthy he can't throw money around like that and I think there is still about 5-7(not sure) years left on the lease. there is also the question of what to do with RalJon after the Redskins leave ,no College teams need it,there is a Mall across the Beltway and a Metro down the street The Redskins will never get the value they need for it Baltimore is out. Hogan has talked about letting Snyder have a Casino license for "sports betting" to stay where he is. The name change will allow him what he wants , to rebuild on the old RFK site and in Washington.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1254099]My favorite CFL team is the Edmonton Eskimos and my favorite baseball team is the Atlanta Braves.

I went to San Diego State (Aztecs).

My sporting world is all gonna get fucked up the next few years.

I think FSU is safe. By safe I mean the name change lovers will come for them last.

I need to do an ancestry check, I must be part Native America. Every team I like is related most to Native Americans.[/quote]

FSU gives the Seminole tribe a few million reasons each year to not have a problem with the name, logo, and pregame flaming spear throw.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=rocnrik;1254087]The latest is Eskimo pie ice cream is being renamed .. so is now the word Eskimo bad? .. is it okay to say Chinese food ? Italian sausage ? Is the word southern bad ? Is it bad to say yankee ?? I say the Yankees is a slur .. should the dictionary be re written ? It’s not okay to call your Boss boss .. The word Indian is bad so how about a Indian restaurant? What the hell has happened to this world .. it’s like a George Carlin comedy show ! Facebook is a damn joke , on most forums people show no respect .. people type out STFU but would never step up and say it to your face .. most of the discussion here end up being pissing contest .. What has happened to common decency? This world is in real trouble .. the Redskin name is the least of anybody’s problem ..[/quote]

I would say the difference is that Indian and Eskimo where names given to describe people and not the names the people use themselves. These were the names given by European colonizers at the time to describe them. (Blame FrenchSkins people for the term Eskimo)

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=MTK;1254073]Speaking of unhinged clowns, rage tweet incoming

[URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29418948/donald-trump-defends-redskins-indians-team-names"]Donald Trump defends Redskins, Indians team names[/URL][/quote]

So what's to argue there? They ARE two historic franchises and are changing due to political correctness.

I tend to believe the government should have no say on what a private business wants to call itself. The consumers can decide if they want to give them money or not, but legislating based on feelings is a dangerous route to take. The perpetually offended will never be satisfied.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1254128]I would say the difference is that Indian and Eskimo where names given to describe people and not the names the people use themselves. These were the names given by European colonizers at the time to describe them. (Blame FrenchSkins people for the term Eskimo)[/quote]

I'd say the Eskimo refers to the ice cream being cold. When have you ever heard anyone claim to be offended by an Eskimo Pit ice cream sandwich? Or pancake mix? Or a band name (Lady Antebellum)? Or Uncle Ben's rice? Gone with the Wind? College kids doing alligator arms at a Gators football game? The Texas Rangers baseball team, named after law enforcement? Hell, there's a real petition circulating in Ohio to rename the town of Columbus "[B]Flavortown[/B]". In California, they passed a law saying that the word "manhole" is illegal, they're now to be called "maintenance holes". I'm waiting for Blacksmiths and Blacktoppers to be banned.

It's like The Onion's craziest stories are reality now.



These things are not being attacked because they were designed to be racist or even because people are legitimately offended, there's just a power trip right now by a segment of the population intent on "fundamentally transforming America", or in other words...destroying its history.


Did you hear about UVA's "racist" sword logo? Now wavy lines are racist!

[url]https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2020/04/new-virginia-athletics-logo-ignites-controversy-over-use-of-serpentine-walls[/url]

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.particlenews.com%2Fimg%2Fid%2F3We86b_0PMcb8r200%3Ftype%3Dthumbnail_1024x576&f=1&nofb=1[/img]

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1254128]I would say the difference is that Indian and Eskimo where names given to describe people and not the names the people use themselves. These were the names given by European colonizers at the time to describe them. (Blame FrenchSkins people for the term Eskimo)[/quote]

Actuall the Term Redskin was a term the indians use.


1769: The first unchallenged use of the word “redskin” occurs when a British lieutenant colonel translates a letter from an Indian chief promising safe passage if the officer visited his tribe in the Upper Mississippi Valley.

“I shall be pleased to have you come to speak to me yourself if you pity our women and our children; and, if any redskins do you harm, I shall be able to look out for you even at the peril of my life,” Chief Mosquito said in his letter, according to a 2005 study by Ives Goddard, the Smithsonian’s senior linguist emeritus.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

The push for the Washington Redskins' name to change continued on Monday, as more than a dozen Native American groups sent a letter to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell calling for the league to force the franchise to change its name immediately, according to Stephen Whyno of the Associated Press.

Demands from the letter were for the NFL to end the use of all Native American names, imagery and logos, specifically citing Washington's franchise. The Redskins' primary logo, which has been the same since 1972, features a modernized Native American with burgundy and gold feathers.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/report-native-american-groups-send-letter-roger-goodell-asking-nfl-force-redskins-name[/url]

“We’ve never been faced with a greater opportunity and moment for this to finally happen,” Echo Hawk said last month.

“Native Americans have been working and fighting on this issue for decades, decades and decades, and I think really talking with different Native leaders around the country, this is the moment. There’s really no excuse now for this Washington team and for the NFL to do the right thing.”
[url]https://apnews.com/a6ddd9b0244e6d480eb796edcaa0d387[/url]

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=Back2RFK;1254171]Actuall the Term Redskin was a term the indians use.


1769: The first unchallenged use of the word “redskin” occurs when a British lieutenant colonel translates a letter from an Indian chief promising safe passage if the officer visited his tribe in the Upper Mississippi Valley.

“I shall be pleased to have you come to speak to me yourself if you pity our women and our children; and, if any redskins do you harm, I shall be able to look out for you even at the peril of my life,” Chief Mosquito said in his letter, according to a 2005 study by Ives Goddard, the Smithsonian’s senior linguist emeritus.[/quote]

Indeed true. As this issue has metastasized over the years, nobody bothered to note that Indians do not have red colored skin.

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=SunnySide;1254181]The push for the Washington Redskins' name to change continued on Monday, as more than a dozen Native American groups sent a letter to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell calling for the league to force the franchise to change its name immediately, according to Stephen Whyno of the Associated Press.

Demands from the letter were for the NFL to end the use of all Native American names, imagery and logos, specifically citing Washington's franchise. The Redskins' primary logo, which has been the same since 1972, features a modernized Native American with burgundy and gold feathers.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/report-native-american-groups-send-letter-roger-goodell-asking-nfl-force-redskins-name[/url]

“We’ve never been faced with a greater opportunity and moment for this to finally happen,” Echo Hawk said last month.

“Native Americans have been working and fighting on this issue for decades, decades and decades, and I think really talking with different Native leaders around the country, this is the moment. There’s really no excuse now for this Washington team and for the NFL to do the right thing.”
[url]https://apnews.com/a6ddd9b0244e6d480eb796edcaa0d387[/url][/quote]


Here's where we're losing touch with facts and history.


[url]https://sportslogohistory.com/washington-redskins-primary-logo[/url]

The Redskins primary logo used today was first designed in 1971 in close consultation with Native American leaders. Among those who unanimously approved and voiced praise for the logo was Walter “Blackie” Wetzel, a former President of the National Congress of American Indians and Chairman of the Blackfeet Nation. Years earlier, Mr. Wetzel had been deeply involved with U.S. President John F. Kennedy in the movement for civil liberties, civil rights, and economic freedom for all. In 2014, Mr. Wetzel’s son Don commented, [B]“It needs to be said that an Indian from the State of Montana created the Redskins logo, and did it the right way. It represents the Red Nation, and it’s something to be proud of.”
[/B]

[url]https://406mtsports.com/football/washington-redskins-logo-has-deep-connection-to-blackfeet-reservation-wetzel-family/article_7e919d9b-8e06-5218-8d86-d5c713ee3997.html[/url]

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=JackLord;1254182]Indeed true. As this issue has metastasized over the years, nobody bothered to note that Indians do not have red colored skin.[/quote]





[url]https://www.kateritekakwitha.org/ancestry/algonquin/legends.htm[/url]

Masimin Dyes
Blue, black and red were the most difficult dyes or colors to obtain among the Indians. They were kept most preciously, and were used only on special occasions such as ceremonial feasts.

The Indians would paint their faces and their bodies, using these colored dyes for their secret markings. The women were entrusted with this form of decoration, working at times an entire day on one single body. [B]Red and yellow[/B] ochres were also used.

--------------------------------------------------------


[url]http://httr4life.com/native-americans-speak-on-the-meaning-of-the-word-redskin/[/url]


In May of last year, another Native American, Robert “Two Eagles” Green, who retired from his presiding role over the 1300-member Patawomeck Tribe in March of that year, spoke on an NFL Sirius Radio show. Green said he would be offended IF the name is changed. The story didn’t receive much publicity but here are Green’s quotes that also point to the origin of the name.

“I think that first of all, you have to make a decision whether you consider it offensive or not, and frankly, the members of my tribe, the vast majority, don’t find it offensive,” Green said. “I’ve been a Redskins fan for years and to be honest with you, I would be offended if they did change it.”

“And I think what you have to do is look at where the term Redskin was originated. There’s some that give the term Redskins a negative connotation to indicate that it was created by the white man, to offend the Indians. [B]But in reality, the term Redskins came from the Indians. And they referred to themselves often times, in treaty negotiations and meetings with the early settlers, as Redskins.[/B]

[B]“So it’s not a term that the white man created. It’s actually a term that the Indians themselves created. I just think we have people in this country that try and gin up problems that don’t exist.”[/B]

“Now, our investigation into the term goes back pretty far – to 1608 – when John Smith was traveling from Jamestown to meet with the Indian people, and he remarked in his diary that when they’re born, they’re as white as we are. It’s only as they age that their skin darkens.

“And we believe that that was a reason for that. We use a bug repellent, for lack of a better term, that was made up of animal fat and the dye of the Puccoon plant. And coincidentally, [B]the Puccoon dye, when it’s crushed and dyed, is red. And so for years, the Indian people were rubbing this red dye into their skin. And some of the other early settlers remarked that their skin turns red. [/B]So, was that a comment meant to denigrate the Indian people? I don’t think so. I don’t think the name was created by George Preston Marshall to be offensive.”

“And if you look at the logo, there’s nothing offensive about the logo. I think one of the great things about the logo is that it’s an Eastern Indian, and they didn’t go to the full warhead headdress and things. It was never intended to be offensive. I think that sometimes, we’re a little too touchy in our society these days.”

Re: Skins getting heat again over name issue
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1254186][url]https://www.kateritekakwitha.org/ancestry/algonquin/legends.htm[/url]

Masimin Dyes
Blue, black and red were the most difficult dyes or colors to obtain among the Indians. They were kept most preciously, and were used only on special occasions such as ceremonial feasts.

The Indians would paint their faces and their bodies, using these colored dyes for their secret markings. The women were entrusted with this form of decoration, working at times an entire day on one single body. [B]Red and yellow[/B] ochres were also used.

--------------------------------------------------------


[url]http://httr4life.com/native-americans-speak-on-the-meaning-of-the-word-redskin/[/url]


In May of last year, another Native American, Robert “Two Eagles” Green, who retired from his presiding role over the 1300-member Patawomeck Tribe in March of that year, spoke on an NFL Sirius Radio show. Green said he would be offended IF the name is changed. The story didn’t receive much publicity but here are Green’s quotes that also point to the origin of the name.

“I think that first of all, you have to make a decision whether you consider it offensive or not, and frankly, the members of my tribe, the vast majority, don’t find it offensive,” Green said. “I’ve been a Redskins fan for years and to be honest with you, I would be offended if they did change it.”

“And I think what you have to do is look at where the term Redskin was originated. There’s some that give the term Redskins a negative connotation to indicate that it was created by the white man, to offend the Indians. [B]But in reality, the term Redskins came from the Indians. And they referred to themselves often times, in treaty negotiations and meetings with the early settlers, as Redskins.[/B]

[B]“So it’s not a term that the white man created. It’s actually a term that the Indians themselves created. I just think we have people in this country that try and gin up problems that don’t exist.”[/B]

“Now, our investigation into the term goes back pretty far – to 1608 – when John Smith was traveling from Jamestown to meet with the Indian people, and he remarked in his diary that when they’re born, they’re as white as we are. It’s only as they age that their skin darkens.

“And we believe that that was a reason for that. We use a bug repellent, for lack of a better term, that was made up of animal fat and the dye of the Puccoon plant. And coincidentally, [B]the Puccoon dye, when it’s crushed and dyed, is red. And so for years, the Indian people were rubbing this red dye into their skin. And some of the other early settlers remarked that their skin turns red. [/B]So, was that a comment meant to denigrate the Indian people? I don’t think so. I don’t think the name was created by George Preston Marshall to be offensive.”

“And if you look at the logo, there’s nothing offensive about the logo. I think one of the great things about the logo is that it’s an Eastern Indian, and they didn’t go to the full warhead headdress and things. It was never intended to be offensive. I think that sometimes, we’re a little too touchy in our society these days.”[/quote]

The logo by itself isn't offensive or a cartoon character like Chief Wahoo, but when combined with the word Redskins doesn't work anymore. Tony Kornheiser always said the Redskins could keep their name if they changed the logo to a redskin potato.