Re: Obama Care
 

Government loves to over look this and would love for the people to forget it....

[url=http://www.constitution.org/usdeclar.htm]Declaration of Independence[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

Perhaps real change is needed, so forget about the Republicans coming back strong. We need to look forward to this man..... :)

[url=http://www.ontheissues.org/Ross_Perot.htm]Ross Perot on the Issues[/url]

Ross Perot. LOL. ;)

Re: Obama Care
 

Good for the Dems and supporters. Bad for the GOPers and supporters!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677806]Based on the $ 750 fine/tax most single, healthy people that aren't worried about coverage will pay the $ 750 rather than the $ 1,400 + /yr. they would pay for insurance. So the scenario will be probably be worse regarding premium increases.[/quote]

Supposing you SS33 are a young healthy chap would you pay the $750 and skip getting coverage? For how long? What would you do if you got sick? Where do you think your $750 going?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677780]There still will be. For a while at least. IMHO, as more and more coverages are mandated, however, private insurance will become to costly for all but the wealthy.

I hope I am wrong and I may well be. I am sure 12th and Saden have multiple links to disprove my cynical view. As I have said all along, I just don't think this law does enough to address the underlying flaws in the healthcare system which are stressing the cost for services. In fact, I believe it will do more to exacerbate them.

But I'm not really worried - insurance companies and healthcare providers have promised to cut 2 trillion in costs over the next 10 years. Add that to the promised 130 billion in deficit reduction from this law and we are in for some boom times people!![/quote]

I just try to be the voice of reason, I don't really come here to have heated debates or prove people wrong. I have a point of view like the next guy, but I also come here to learn and glean information from the rest of you. Even firstdown:)

I have scant criticisms of this bill and I'm a little leery of some of the numbers, but I also believe at the end of the day Republicans will regret not getting in on this. It won't be repealed and as we see hiccups along the way, and we will, new legislation will be enacted to improve upon the core bill.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677829]Supposing you SS33 are a young healthy chap would you pay the $750 and skip getting coverage? For how long? What would you do if you got sick? Where do you think your $750 going?[/quote]

Clearly, you pay the 750/year until such time as you need coverage. At which time, you buy just enough coverage to pay for whatever the problem is. Use of pre-existing conditions being prohibited (sec. 211), I wait until the last possible moment to purchase coverage. Why pay 1,400+ (more as time goes by) for a service I don't need?

As to where the $750 goes, why does that matter? If I don't use the health insurance, the 1,400 gets me no benefit and neither does the 750. If I have to piss away money, I'll piss away the least amount possible.

If you're implying that the 750 will be going to offset insurance costs, perhaps it will be used to offset some of the public option costs but it certainly won't affect private insurance. So, in many cases, before premiums for private insurance to significantly increase, private insurers will get many new insureds just as those insureds need expensive coverage. This will continue until premiums catch up with the mandatory services.

hmmm, I may have to rethink starting that insurance company.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;677831]I just try to be the voice of reason, I don't really come here to have heated debates or prove people wrong. I have a point of view like the next guy, but I also come here to learn and glean information from the rest of you. Even firstdown:)

I have scant criticisms of this bill and I'm a little leery of some of the numbers, but [B]I also believe at the end of the day Republicans will regret not getting in on this. It won't be repealed and as we see hiccups along the way, and we will, new legislation will be enacted to improve upon the core bill[/B].[/quote]

With this I agree. It's here to stay and Republican obstructionism is, in the end, going to do them more harm than good. They had plenty of time to come up with and sell a viable alternative or even to say "attack costs first and here is the way to do it".

As to the numbers, obviously, I am more than a little leery. Again, I hope I am wrong, I hope this succeeds in delivering on its promises. I just seriously doubt it and, in 10 years, believe will be trying to figure out how to pay for it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677832]Clearly, you pay the 750/year until such time as you need coverage. At which time, you buy just enough coverage to pay for whatever the problem is. Use of pre-existing conditions being prohibited (sec. 211), I wait until the last possible moment to purchase coverage. Why pay 1,400+ (more as time goes by) for a service I don't need? [/quote]

All these little tricks aren't some [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2321"]new revelation[/URL] but that's not going to stop the mob from thinking itself clever. Tricksters should be weary of traps.

Far be it from me to give advice that contradicts a lawyer's advice but I would be remiss if didn't. I guess you haven't heard of a nice little section titled "[URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:975"]Sec. 2702 Guaranteed Availability of Coverage.[/URL]" This section clearly establishes an enrollment period much like your employer's enrollment period and if you miss it without [URL="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00009801----000-.html"]extraneous circumstance[/URL] you are shit out of luck. That is to say you will be on your own in purchasing insurance with your pre-existing condition at a hefty "free-market" price.

If a healthy young person does as you suggest they would be out $750 annually without the benefits of coverage, and when they get sick and decide to get insurance they might as well offer a kidney as payment. The best coverage they will be able to get is through the high [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:1808"]risk insurance pool[/URL].

[quote=JoeRedskin;677832]As to where the $750 goes, why does that matter? If I don't use the health insurance, the 1,400 gets me no benefit and neither does the 750. If I have to piss away money, I'll piss away the least amount possible.

If you're implying that the 750 will be going to offset insurance costs, perhaps it will be used to offset some of the public option costs but it certainly won't affect private insurance. So, in many cases, before premiums for private insurance to significantly increase, private insurers will get many new insureds just as those insureds need expensive coverage. This will continue until premiums catch up with the mandatory services.
[/quote]

It matters where that $750 goes, it matters very much. You see, the government isn't providing the insurance itself, it's merely providing the rule book for insurance companies to follow. That $750 will eventually end up going to some insurance company and it's coming from a poor sap they didn't provide any service to but is still paying into the system. Of course if said sap decides to use emergency services he will probably utilize that $750 he paid and then some.

There is no public option in this bill, only healthcare exchange where most insurance companies if not all will no doubt participate in. And of course participating in the exchange will impact the private insurance companies button dollar. Now if people and employers dump companies that aren't participating in the exchange in favor of those that are imagine they're doing it out of self-interest. The point is there's absolutely nothing preventing companies from participating in the exchange there's nothing wrong with purchasing coverage though the exchange.

[quote=JoeRedskin;677832]hmmm, I may have to rethink starting that insurance company.[/quote]

The health insurance industry is still a free market though it is regulated. Get in the game and if you strike it rich save the Redskins from Snyder.


p.s. Thank you to all you young healthy lads who plan on paying that $750 fine, and good luck, you're bloody well going to need it.

Re: Obama Care
 

Health Care is so boring.... I am ready to start on Immigration. Let them keep suing, on to the next issue.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677834]All these little tricks aren't some [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2321"]new revelation[/URL] but that's not going to stop the mob from thinking itself clever. Tricksters should be weary of traps.

Far be it from me to give advice that contradicts a lawyer's advice but I would be remiss if didn't. I guess you haven't heard of a nice little section titled "[URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:975"]Sec. 2702 Guaranteed Availability of Coverage.[/URL]" This section clearly establishes an enrollment period much like your employer's enrollment period and if you miss it without [URL="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00009801----000-.html"]extraneous circumstance[/URL] you are shit out of luck. That is to say you will be on your own in purchasing insurance with your pre-existing condition at a hefty "free-market" price.

If a healthy young person does as you suggest they would be out $750 annually without the benefits of coverage, and when they get sick and decide to get insurance they might as well offer a kidney as payment. The best coverage they will be able to get is through the high [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:1808"]risk insurance pool[/URL].



It matters where that $750 goes, it matters very much. You see, the government isn't providing the insurance itself, it's merely providing the rule book for insurance companies to follow. That $750 will eventually end up going to some insurance company and it's coming from a poor sap they didn't provide any service to but is still paying into the system. Of course if said sap decides to use emergency services he will probably utilize that $750 he paid and then some.

There is no public option in this bill, only healthcare exchange where all most insurance companies if not all will no doubt participate in. And of course participating in the exchange will impact the private insurance companies button dollar. Now if people and employers dump companies that aren't participating in the exchange in favor of those that are imagine they're doing it out of self-interest. The point is there's absolutely nothing preventing companies from participating in the exchange there's nothing wrong with purchasing coverage though the exchange.



The health insurance industry is still a free market though it is regulated. Get in the game and if you strike it rich save the Redskins from Snyder.


p.s. Thank you to all you young healthy lads who plan on paying that $750 fine, and good luck, you're bloody well going to need it.[/quote]

That $750 fine is collected by the IRS and will end up in the general fund along with our SS money.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677832]Clearly, you pay the 750/year until such time as you need coverage. At which time, you buy just enough coverage to pay for whatever the problem is. Use of pre-existing conditions being prohibited (sec. 211), I wait until the last possible moment to purchase coverage. Why pay 1,400+ (more as time goes by) for a service I don't need?

As to where the $750 goes, why does that matter? If I don't use the health insurance, the 1,400 gets me no benefit and neither does the 750. If I have to piss away money, I'll piss away the least amount possible.

If you're implying that the 750 will be going to offset insurance costs, perhaps it will be used to offset some of the public option costs but it certainly won't affect private insurance. So, in many cases, before premiums for private insurance to significantly increase, private insurers will get many new insureds just as those insureds need expensive coverage. This will continue until premiums catch up with the mandatory services.

hmmm, I may have to rethink starting that insurance company.[/quote]


$117 a month for health Insurance is a pretty cheap price, assuming it is $1400 a year for the Govt. Health Insurance.

My buddy went into a coma when he was 27 due to low potassium, had no health insurance he said they should have started filling out the bankruptcy papers as soon as the helicopter picked him up. He is 10 years later still struggling to get his finances in order.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677833]With this I agree. It's here to stay and Republican obstructionism is, in the end, going to do them more harm than good. [SIZE=4]They had plenty of time to come up with and sell a viable alternative or even to say "attack costs first and here is the way to do it". [/SIZE]

As to the numbers, obviously, I am more than a little leery. Again, I hope I am wrong, I hope this succeeds in delivering on its promises. I just seriously doubt it and, in 10 years, believe will be trying to figure out how to pay for it.[/quote]

Hello they did offer their ideas but where ignored except for those 4 or 5 hours Obama had that meeting on TV. You also say Rep. obstructionism but they could not stop any bill that they wanted to pass and it was dems who was stopping any bills from going through until they all got bribed. So you say the Rep. will be sorry for this but you then turn around and say that we will be trying to figure out how to pay for this bill in years to come. Sorry but that when the Rep. can stand up and say they tried to warn everyone about this but the Dems would not listen. It will not take 10 years for this to fail it takes 3 to 4 at the most and the only reason for that is because most of this bill is delayed for years to come.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;677864]$117 a month for health Insurance is a pretty cheap price, assuming it is $1400 a year for the Govt. Health Insurance.

My buddy went into a coma when he was 27 due to low potassium, had no health insurance he said they should have started filling out the bankruptcy papers as soon as the helicopter picked him up. He is 10 years later still struggling to get his finances in order.[/quote]

Think I read something recently that said 60% of all bankruptcies are caused by medical expenses... that's really pathetic

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk;677872]Think I read something recently that said 60% of all bankruptcies are caused by medical expenses... that's really pathetic[/quote]


Agreed it is sad.

People can argue that the new health-care plan sucks, etc but the current plan really blows. It was time for a CHANGE!

Re: Obama Care
 

What I think I dispise the most is if people aren't happy with how the government is run or how our freedoms are or are not monitered.... get the hell out. You want Socialism move. There are plenty of countries that offer Socialism. No one is stopping you. Go get your government funded health care. Canada is one of them. Not too far from home either. Go enjoy it. But be sure to say hi to everyone when you come back to the US to get decent medical attention.

It just kills me that people can't enjoy life and their freedoms. I picture a bunch of bored people sitting at home thinking how can they "fix" or "change" things when in reality they are mucking it up. I feel sorry some 30 mill people don't have insurance so why not pass a law in regards to those 30 mill and leave the rest of us alone. You don't have a job or your job doesn't provide insurance apply for government insurance.

I can't wait till the moral majority attacks:

Immigration
Cigaretts
Alcohol
Coffie
Soda
Fried foods

and so on and so forth. I just hope I live long enough for other people to be just as misserable with how their government is screwing them over also so I can sit back and just smile.

I also hope the law suit the states filed resolves this issue.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;677865]It will not take 10 years for this to fail it takes 3 to 4 at the most and the only reason for that is because most of this bill is delayed for years to come.[/quote]

Mandatory coverage purchasing doesn't start till 2014 right? So if it's still around in 3-4 years it'll still be going I believe. I know that individual coverage isn't the only part of the bill, but with the rollout that they're doing it seems like it'll go longer if it's not shot down by the courts.

Anyways, there are positive parts of the bill, anyone who's had a sick relative get dropped by their insurance company knows what I mean. I am not a fan of mandatory purchasing though, not at all.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=SBXVII;677891]What I think I dispise the most is if people aren't happy with how the government is run or how our freedoms are or are not monitered.... get the hell out. You want Socialism move. There are plenty of countries that offer Socialism. No one is stopping you. Go get your government funded health care. Canada is one of them. Not too far from home either. Go enjoy it. But be sure to say hi to everyone when you come back to the US to get decent medical attention.

It just kills me that people can't enjoy life and their freedoms. I picture a bunch of bored people sitting at home thinking how can they "fix" or "change" things when in reality they are mucking it up. I feel sorry some 30 mill people don't have insurance so why not pass a law in regards to those 30 mill and leave the rest of us alone. You don't have a job or your job doesn't provide insurance apply for government insurance.

I can't wait till the moral majority attacks:

Immigration
Cigaretts
Alcohol
Coffie
Soda
Fried foods

and so on and so forth. I just hope I live long enough for other people to be just as misserable with how their government is screwing them over also so I can sit back and just smile.

I also hope the law suit the states filed resolves this issue.[/quote]
Too many of the moral majority reside in the south for them to attack cigarettes, alcohol, and fried foods at the least.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677829]Supposing you SS33 are a young healthy chap would you pay the $750 and skip getting coverage? For how long? What would you do if you got sick? Where do you think your $750 going?[/quote]I wouldn't (and have always made sure I had coverage since I left home), the cost vs. risk doesn't make sense.

However, I deal with several 18-22 yr. olds on a daily basis and these guys/gals don't make the best decisions or for the most part really have a clue how things work. Most won't even know they got hit with a $ 750 penalty from the Fed until they file their taxes and don't get anything back or have to pay.

And as FD said, the $ 750 will go into the general fund, just like the Medicare tax increase.

Re: Obama Care
 

According to [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/24/health.care.penalties/index.html"]an article on CNN today[/URL], lower income people will be exempt from the tax/fee which starts at $95 in 2014 and jumps up to ~$700 in 2016. Also, Native Americans and certain religions that have some prohibition will be exempt from paying a penalty.

Re: Obama Care
 

More info on how Obamacare is likely to affect the restaurant businesses.

[url=http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/24/on-the-check-food-drinks-health-care/]On the Tab: Food, Drinks & Health Care « Liveshots[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=SBXVII;677891]What I think I dispise the most is if people aren't happy with how the government is run or how our freedoms are or are not monitered.... get the hell out. You want Socialism move. There are plenty of countries that offer Socialism. No one is stopping you. Go get your government funded health care. Canada is one of them. Not too far from home either. Go enjoy it. But be sure to say hi to everyone when you come back to the US to get decent medical attention.
[/quote]

So what you are saying is at any point we dislike a law or policy, that instead of talking within ourselves in the community, voting for people who have our views, and telling our elected officials what we want, we should move?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677910]I wouldn't (and have always made sure I had coverage since I left home), the cost vs. risk doesn't make sense.

However, I deal with several 18-22 yr. olds on a daily basis and these guys/gals don't make the best decisions or for the most part really have a clue how things work. Most won't even know they got hit with a $ 750 penalty from the Fed until they file their taxes and don't get anything back or have to pay.

[B]And as FD said, the $ 750 will go into the general fund, just like the Medicare tax increase[/B].[/quote]

If you're an 18-22 yr old you can get coverage through your parents until you turn 25. If you or your parents can't afford it you will get tax credit to purchase insurance. If you can afford it and choose not to, well, you're free to do so after you cough up that $750. Frankly their idiocy no one's fault but their own and their parents.

The fine will be collected by the IRS? It's going to general fund? What general fund? The bill states that the Secretary of Health and Human Services [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2417"]will collect this money[/URL].

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=SBXVII;677891]What I think I dispise the most is if people aren't happy with how the government is run or how our freedoms are or are not monitered.... get the hell out. You want Socialism move. There are plenty of countries that offer Socialism. No one is stopping you. Go get your government funded health care. Canada is one of them. Not too far from home either. Go enjoy it. But be sure to say hi to everyone when you come back to the US to get decent medical attention.

It just kills me that people can't enjoy life and their freedoms. I picture a bunch of bored people sitting at home thinking how can they "fix" or "change" things when in reality they are mucking it up. I feel sorry some 30 mill people don't have insurance so why not pass a law in regards to those 30 mill and leave the rest of us alone. You don't have a job or your job doesn't provide insurance apply for government insurance.

I can't wait till the moral majority attacks:

Immigration
Cigaretts
Alcohol
Coffie
Soda
Fried foods

and so on and so forth. I just hope I live long enough for other people to be just as misserable with how their government is screwing them over also so I can sit back and just smile.

I also hope the law suit the states filed resolves this issue.[/quote]

Using your logic shouldn't you be the one moving?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk;677921]Using your logic shouldn't you be the one moving?[/quote]

It's too easy isn't it? Reminds me of Duck Hunt on NES back in the day. Pew Pew Pew.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677919]If you're an 18-22 yr old you can get coverage through your parents until you turn 25. If you or your parents can't afford it you will get tax credit to purchase insurance. If you can afford it and choose not to, well, you're free to do so after you cough up that $750. Frankly their idiocy no one's fault but their own and their parents.

The fine will be collected by the IRS? It's going to general fund? What general fund? The bill states that the Secretary of Health and Human Services [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2417"]will collect this money[/URL].[/quote]If you've got a section or page that would be great, the link is taking forever to open. But everything I've seen states that the IRS will collect the $ 750 penalty.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677926]If you've got a section or page that would be great, the link is taking forever to open. But everything I've seen states that the IRS will collect the $ 750 penalty.[/quote]

The link is to a specific section/sub-paragraph of the bill and the whole page takes time to load. Here is the actual text I am referring to:

[quote](g) Administration and Procedure- CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.[/quote]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=SBXVII;677891]What I think I dispise the most is if people aren't happy with how the government is run or how our freedoms are or are not monitered.... get the hell out. You want Socialism move. There are plenty of countries that offer Socialism. No one is stopping you. Go get your government funded health care. Canada is one of them. Not too far from home either. Go enjoy it. But be sure to say hi to everyone when you come back to the US to get decent medical attention.

It just kills me that people can't enjoy life and their freedoms. I picture a bunch of bored people sitting at home thinking how can they "fix" or "change" things when in reality they are mucking it up. I feel sorry some 30 mill people don't have insurance so why not pass a law in regards to those 30 mill and leave the rest of us alone. You don't have a job or your job doesn't provide insurance apply for government insurance.

I can't wait till the moral majority attacks:

Immigration
Cigaretts
Alcohol
Coffie
Soda
Fried foods

and so on and so forth. I just hope I live long enough for other people to be just as misserable with how their government is screwing them over also so I can sit back and just smile.

I also hope the law suit the states filed resolves this issue.[/quote]

Oh you poor people and your oppressive government...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434]YouTube - HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED[/ame]

Re: Obama Care
 

love that scene

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;677914]According to [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/24/health.care.penalties/index.html"]an article on CNN today[/URL], lower income people will be exempt from the tax/fee which starts at $95 in 2014 and jumps up to ~$700 in 2016. Also, Native Americans and certain religions that have some prohibition will be exempt from paying a penalty.[/quote]
Why would low income get hit with the fee sense they will probably be the ones receiving the goverment subsidy in the first place? I guess may be it time to find god and a religion that is against health care. Hey is the Tea Party a religion? LOL

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;677919]If you're an 18-22 yr old you can get coverage through your parents until you turn 25. If you or your parents can't afford it you will get tax credit to purchase insurance. If you can afford it and choose not to, well, you're free to do so after you cough up that $750. Frankly their idiocy no one's fault but their own and their parents.

The fine will be collected by the IRS? It's going to general fund? What general fund? The bill states that the Secretary of Health and Human Services [URL="http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2417"]will collect this money[/URL].[/quote]

Thats the I'm a looser clause in the bill because full time students can allready stay covered under their parents policy until they are out of school. So these are probably the kids who are not going to school and are not working because if they had a job their employer would have to pay for their health coverage and play mommy and dady. Just think of those anti drug comercials and the mom yelling up for the guy to get a job while he is smoking a joint in his bed room.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;677736]Every health care system in the world has issues and there is anecdotal evidence for just about each one showing it's failures. Likewise, there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence in support of most of them.

In 10 years we will know if the system enacted this week delivers on its promises. Personally, I predict that in about 5 years, quality of care wiill decrease for the vast majority of Americans while their costs increase. Further, we will still be getting horror stories of inadequate care or unaffordable services. Not the same type as today, but horror stories still the same.

But "Yay!!" We have universal health care.

My advice: Start a health insurace company. Plan for 5-6 years of boom profits as mandated insurance provides a huge new customer base. After that, as costs skyrocket due to Dr. shortages, malpractice costs, and skewed market forces, plan on a two year wind down by increasing premiums to drive your customer base into the public option. Under most state regulations, your mandated reserves will carry you through a year or two for winding down. It's a short term plan, but properly played worth a few million. Good luck![/quote]

I was reading up on this a little yesterday. Is the term called capitization?

Re: Obama Care
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;677942]Thats the I'm a looser clause in the bill because full time students can allready stay covered under their parents policy until they are out of school. So these are probably the kids who are not going to school and are not working because if they had a job their employer would have to pay for their health coverage and play mommy and dady. Just think of those anti drug comercials and the mom yelling up for the guy to get a job while he is smoking a joint in his bed room.[/QUOTE/

Well it's not that cut and dry. This is one of the largest segments of uninsured in the country right now. I believe it's about a third; that's a lot of people. In fact, many of these kids are working full time jobs, they just can't freaking afford health insurance. Especially the ones who have recently graduated from college. Currently the age limit will vary from state to state, but for most states the cut-off is 18/19 yrs old.

So this provision will take a huge chunk of the uninsured that show up in emergency rooms or that need medical care and provide them coverage almost immediately.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;677947]I was reading up on this a little yesterday. [B]Is the term called capitization[/B]?[/quote]

The term for what?

Re: Obama Care
 

[IMG]http://image.patriotpost.us.s3.amazonaws.com/2010-03-24-chronicle-cartoon-2.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;564210]First off, the question is do I think that universal healthcare is vitally important. The answer is yes. That being the case, am I willing to pay an increase in taxes for that benefit? Yes again. I am already paying a significant sum of money for things I would rather not, whether it's ridiculous research into [URL="http://www.ajc.com/health/content/health/stories/2009/03/23/alternative_medicine_federal_funds.html"]quack science[/URL] or funding poor lending practices, this is something that I feel is actually a basic, human rights/quality of life issue. You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?[/quote]

very well said

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;564210]First off, the question is do I think that universal healthcare is vitally important. The answer is yes. That being the case, am I willing to pay an increase in taxes for that benefit? Yes again. I am already paying a significant sum of money for things I would rather not, whether it's ridiculous research into [URL="http://www.ajc.com/health/content/health/stories/2009/03/23/alternative_medicine_federal_funds.html"]quack science[/URL] or funding poor lending practices, this is something that I feel is actually a basic, human rights/quality of life issue. You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?[/quote]
Not all alternative treatments are "quack"

Many pharmaceuticals are based on natural compounds, it's because of their traditional use that we have a basis for many drugs (with 1m times the side effects!) on the market today.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;677952][QUOTE=firstdown;677942]Thats the I'm a looser clause in the bill because full time students can allready stay covered under their parents policy until they are out of school. So these are probably the kids who are not going to school and are not working because if they had a job their employer would have to pay for their health coverage and play mommy and dady. Just think of those anti drug comercials and the mom yelling up for the guy to get a job while he is smoking a joint in his bed room.[/QUOTE/

[B]Well it's not that cut and dry. This is one of the largest segments of uninsured in the country right now. I believe it's about a third; that's a lot of people.[/B] In fact, many of these kids are working full time jobs, they just can't freaking afford health insurance. Especially the ones who have recently graduated from college. Currently the age limit will vary from state to state, but for most states the cut-off is 18/19 yrs old.

[B]So this provision will take a huge chunk of the uninsured that show up in emergency rooms or that need medical care and provide them coverage almost immediately.[/B][/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The reason for forcing young people to have health care insurance is to supplement the cost of providing health care insurance to old people. The reason why so many of them dont have health care insurance has a lot to do with the lack of need (or perceived need). Its one thing to risk it when your 25, single, no dependents, no possessions, all the while at a greatly reduced risk, versus taking the risk when you have a family, things to loose and are at a much higher risk. Its a gamble but its one that pays off for the vast majority of young people.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mlmpetert;677979][quote=12thMan;677952]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The reason for forcing young people to have health care insurance is to supplement the cost of providing health care insurance to old people. The reason why so many of them dont have health care insurance has a lot to do with the lack of need (or perceived need). Its one thing to risk it when your 25, single, no dependents, no possessions, all the while at a greatly reduced risk, versus taking the risk when you have a family, things to loose and are at a much higher risk. Its a gamble but its one that pays off for the vast majority of young people.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]


Why should anyone have to take that gamble? If you lose you jeopardize having a family, things to lose, etc... because you are so buried in debit.

Re: Obama Care
 

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html]Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress[/url]

classy stuff here

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk;677990][URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html"]Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress[/URL]

classy stuff here[/quote]


Sadly there are losers like this on both sides of the spectrum, I would say the majority of Republicans don't step to this level.