Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1196705]This WH just can’t get out of its own way

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/07/19/trump-putin-conversation-about-russian-interrogation-of-u-s-diplomat-prompts-outrage-astonishment/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3be6485d3605[/url][/quote]

Someone ought to give them a foot in mouth statue

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/3c/ed/c63ced88d784dd7236f7554a0bc6d92f.png[/IMG]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Here is another one that can't seem to stay out of his own way..............



[url]http://thehill.com/homenews/house/397845-nunes-spent-15k-of-political-donations-on-celtic-tickets-vega-trips[/url]


Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) used political donations to pay for almost $15,000 in tickets for Boston Celtics games, winery tours and trips to Las Vegas, according to a McClatchy article published Thursday.

Nunes, who is chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, used money from his political action committee to purchase Celtics tickets three times last year, according to McClatchy's analysis of reports from the Federal Election Commission and two watchdog groups.

His PAC, called New PAC, has also footed the bill for lavish Las Vegas events since 2013, spending a total of $42,741 on catering, rentals, hotels and meals, McClatchy reported.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Speaking of the Trumpster...Im coming up to DC and was looking at hotels. Has anybody ever stayed at a Trump hotel? I took a look and was shocked at the value...really over priced and you could get much better rooms at other spots for $200-300 cheaper per night.

I don't get how his places stay in business...especially how the brand has been kinda tarnished by his presidency. Trump brand used to be lavish luxury...I say that's taken a hit.

Also...and this is grinding gears...$43 per night for valet in DC? ouch. I can see 20-25 but damn. But the way fuck faces drive in DC...probably worth it...

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196710]Here is another one that can't seem to stay out of his own way..............



[url]http://thehill.com/homenews/house/397845-nunes-spent-15k-of-political-donations-on-celtic-tickets-vega-trips[/url]


Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) used political donations to pay for almost $15,000 in tickets for Boston Celtics games, winery tours and trips to Las Vegas, according to a McClatchy article published Thursday.

Nunes, who is chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, used money from his political action committee to purchase Celtics tickets three times last year, according to McClatchy's analysis of reports from the Federal Election Commission and two watchdog groups.

His PAC, called New PAC, has also footed the bill for lavish Las Vegas events since 2013, spending a total of $42,741 on catering, rentals, hotels and meals, McClatchy reported.[/quote]

I'm not calling it fake news, and I'm not defending him.

I will say the democrats have a full court press on to attack every republican lawmaker they can, and if these guys aren't mindful, they are going to have every skeleton and tabloid gristle pulled out and waived around.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196712]I'm not calling it fake news, and I'm not defending him.

I will say the democrats have a full court press on to attack every republican lawmaker they can, and if these guys aren't mindful, they are going to have every skeleton and tabloid gristle pulled out and waived around.[/quote]



Reminds me of the good "old days" when Obama was President and the republicans attacked everything in there path..........and then sum.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196713]Reminds me of the good "old days" when Obama was President and the republicans attacked everything in there path..........and then sum.[/quote]

Agreed 100%. The republicans have no one to blame but themselves. Similar to the democrats and the Senate. Both parties have made choices that the other party turns to their advantage. Very short term thinking. I still think that's why term limits for Congress would make a huge different. If you know that you have xx years, you no longer look for a way to preserve your seat for your whole life, but can in fact look to the long term health of the country.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196713]Reminds me of the good "old days" when Obama was President and the republicans attacked everything in there path..........and then sum.[/quote]

[url]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/16/obamas_unsung_bipartisan_legacy_132798.html[/url]

Simply not true and when I hear fake news liberal bullshit that cry’s poor obama couldn’t do anything cause gop I get a laugh.

Read the examples above and shut it.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196715][url]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/16/obamas_unsung_bipartisan_legacy_132798.html[/url]

Simply not true and when I hear fake news liberal bullshit that cry’s poor obama couldn’t do anything cause gop I get a laugh.

Read the examples above and shut it.[/quote]

Their examples of bipartisanship includes 3 republicans siding with Pres Obama, 1 republican siding with Obama, etc.

Bipartisanship in the Senate lets bills pass 97-2 or stats like that. We haven't seen bipartisanship in politics since the Iraq war after 9-11. Once that coalition broke down, the Congress, and the nation has devolved into partisan haggling and demonization/denunciation of the other side has become the norm.

If 3 republicans make a bill bipartisan, than the tax bill and Gorsuch's confirmation were shining examples. They were not.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196716]Their examples of bipartisanship includes 3 republicans siding with Pres Obama, 1 republican siding with Obama, etc.

Bipartisanship in the Senate lets bills pass 97-2 or stats like that. We haven't seen bipartisanship in politics since the Iraq war after 9-11. Once that coalition broke down, the Congress, and the nation has devolved into partisan haggling and demonization/denunciation of the other side has become the norm.

If 3 republicans make a bill bipartisan, than the tax bill and Gorsuch's confirmation were shining examples. They were not.[/quote]

Could it have been stronger...yes, but the hyperbole that gop were just obstructionists is a false narrative. Also...think about it this way...the GOP in good faith refused to be lock step in rolling back Obamacare with trump.

Folks think for yourself and don’t feed into false narratives pushed mainly by the media. It doesn’t add up when you look at facts.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196717]Could it have been stronger...yes, but the hyperbole that gop were just obstructionists is a false narrative. Also...think about it this way...the GOP in good faith refused to be lock step in rolling back Obamacare with trump.

Folks think for yourself and don’t feed into false narratives pushed mainly by the media. It doesn’t add up when you look at facts.[/quote]

The reality is that the Republicans in Congress, other than obstructing (Trump and Obama), can't agree on nearly anything, and when they do it's usually watered down Democratic mush. The Democrats in Congresswalk in lockstep when they are in power, and when they are out. Bush/Obama/Trump haven't swayed the Democratic block anyway that the party didn't want them to go.

It's not in good faith that Republicans refused to be in lock step, it's simply that there isn't a unified Republican ideal. In a sense, that has helped them win so many governors and house races. It's easier to win local elections if you are running on local issues. Look at the upcoming SC confirmations. Schumer (or a different party head) said as much, if you are a Democrat you need to risk your seat for the party. There isn't one Republican congressman that would dare make that statement, because their constituent base isn't the national media, but their local flavor of republicanism.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196715][url]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/16/obamas_unsung_bipartisan_legacy_132798.html[/url]

Simply not true and when I hear fake news liberal bullshit that cry’s poor obama couldn’t do anything cause gop I get a laugh.

Read the examples above and shut it.[/quote]





So you're saying the republicans never bashed anything to do with Obama , that is one of those "OPINION " pieces we were talking about, you know the ones you say don't matter!! Chico , you have to stop drinking the kool/ aid .:doh:

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196719]So you're saying the republicans never bashed anything to do with Obama , that is one of those "OPINION " pieces we were talking about, you know the ones you say don't matter!! Chico , you have to stop drinking the kool/ aid .:doh:[/quote]

G1 I obviously said there were many times where there was cooperation between gop and obama admin. That’s basically it, just refer to my posted article.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1196719]So you're saying the republicans never bashed anything to do with Obama , that is one of those "OPINION " pieces we were talking about, you know the ones you say don't matter!! Chico , you have to stop drinking the kool/ aid .:doh:[/QUOTE]Nobody said they never bashed Obama or anything to do with him, but I think the sphere of attacks is larger now. What i mean is if you are a trump supporter in congress or running for congress you are going to face a lot more accusations and scrutiny then most dems faced simply for supporting Obamas policies.

There isnt a metric to prove this so no point in arguing it, it is just this trumpeteer's opinion.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

i would agree with that. but 8 years of stonewalling, and pettiness, drove us to where we are in politics today. a total shit show with little regard for whats right. or the american peoples best interests

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;1196727]i would agree with that. but 8 years of stonewalling, and pettiness, drove us to where we are in politics today. a total shit show with little regard for whats right. or the american peoples best interests[/QUOTE]I agree.

And the republicans in congress have been worse than the democrats, because they seem to obstruct everything basically for obstruction sake. The democrats are at least unified in their goals and obstruction.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196729]I agree.

And the republicans in congress have been worse than the democrats, because they seem to obstruct everything basically for obstruction sake. The democrats are at least unified in their goals and obstruction.[/quote]

Disagree. Go back to the article. And to predicate a point on a Supreme Court nominee is doesn't make much sense because legislative agenda vs supreme court, completely different ballgame in DC politics.

And you rather have blind unity regardless of best interest of constituents and/or best interest of country? I much rather have people in congress who think for themselves and not embrace lobby groups who set agenda. Blind unity is not only a problem in Congress, but a large portion of the country.

Give me John Warner, Arlen Specter, Collins in Maine, Rand Paul, who challenge group thought charade. Someone who enjoys obstruction, enjoys the presence day pettiness of partisan culture. Its simply ridiculous.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=dmek25;1196727]i would agree with that. but 8 years of stonewalling, and pettiness, drove us to where we are in politics today. a total shit show with little regard for whats right. or the american peoples best interests[/quote]

This,+1

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Both sides need to get back to country over party. Might help too if we had a President who put country first.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196734]This,+1[/quote]

+2

[quote=MTK]
Both sides need to get back to country over party. Might help too if we had a President who put country first.
[/quote]

This too. It seems whoever is the party in power completely disregards the other party (and half the population by extension).

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1196735]Both sides need to get back to country over party. Might help too if we had a President who put country first.[/quote]

From your lips to God's ears!!!

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1196735]Both sides need to get back to country over party[B]/Special Interest/Lobby Groups[/B]. Might help too if we had a President who put country first.[/quote]

We good now

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196730]Disagree. Go back to the article. And to predicate a point on a Supreme Court nominee is doesn't make much sense because legislative agenda vs supreme court, completely different ballgame in DC politics.

And you rather have blind unity regardless of best interest of constituents and/or best interest of country? I much rather have people in congress who think for themselves and not embrace lobby groups who set agenda. Blind unity is not only a problem in Congress, but a large portion of the country.

Give me John Warner, Arlen Specter, Collins in Maine, Rand Paul, who challenge group thought charade. Someone who enjoys obstruction, enjoys the presence day pettiness of partisan culture. Its simply ridiculous.[/quote]

I wasn't really praising the Democrats for their blind unity, just saying that through it, they were able to get things done, when they were in the majority. Of course I disagree with most if not all their policies, but they could in fact make the government function, with the help of very few Republicans.

The Republican congress cannot really do that even on their agenda items, the one exception being the tax cut. Yes I prefer that the members of the party vote for their constituents, and that is why I said earlier that the Republicans have the broader baseline support, because you can have debate and dissent and not be forced to toe the party line, so locally you can be a more inclusive group. But they can't govern. Partly because the democrats stay united, but mostly because within their caucas they can't come to a rational point that everyone can work with. If the Republicans could put forward an immigration bill that would pass and was sane, democrats, at least some would jump on to make it bipartisan, but when the liberal, moderate, conservative republicans can't craft a bill, why would democrats even worry about breaking with party?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196742]We good now[/quote]

I agree with that. Remove corporate money from politics too.

As Mick Mulvaney (current Director of the Office of Management and Budget and acting Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) [URL="http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/unusual-candor-mulvaney-talks-about-selling-access-lobbyists"]once said[/URL]:

[quote]
“We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress,” Mr. Mulvaney, a former Republican lawmaker from South Carolina, told 1,300 bankers and lending industry officials at an American Bankers Association conference in Washington. “If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.”
[/quote]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Trump knows his Lawyers I have to give him that!



[url]https://thinkprogress.org/trump-karen-mcdougal-michael-cohen-hope-hicks-november-2016-statement-lie-wall-street-journal-eff2a7f567d2/[/url]



Cohen recording revelation catches Trump in a lie about McDougal payment


The New York Times on Friday broke bombshell news that in September 2016, President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Trump “in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model [Karen McDougal] who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording.”

Shortly afterward, a follow-up report from The Washington Post added more details about the content of this discussion. Citing a source “familiar with the recording,” the Post reported that Cohen and Trump discussed purchasing the rights to McDougal’s story of her alleged affair from American Media Inc (AMI).

AMI is the parent company of the National Enquirer. AMI’s CEO, David Pecker, describes himself as a close friend of Trump.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=mooby;1196744]I agree with that. Remove corporate money from politics too.

As Mick Mulvaney (current Director of the Office of Management and Budget and acting Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) [URL="http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/unusual-candor-mulvaney-talks-about-selling-access-lobbyists"]once said[/URL]:[/quote]

People need to start getting serious about term limits for Congress in both houses. If would help break the lobbyists and special interest strangle holds

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1196746]People need to start getting serious about term limits for Congress in both houses. If would help break the lobbyists and special interest strangle holds[/QUOTE]Unfortunately they would just find other ways. For example the promise of jobs after your second term would Skyrocket and if they made laws to protect against that then there would be ways to get around that law, and so on and so on and so on. I'm a big supporter of term limits not so much because of special interests but because it's not supposed to be a job it's supposed to be a civic duty that pays well. you go in stand up and be counted. protect the public that voted you in and you leave and you go back to doing a job. like G1 accused me of these guys in the political class have zero to 10% clue of what real life is. they only know it as they've created it in their mind.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

For Something Different, I am sure the NRA will be happy.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/0f132337-4ee2-360f-9376-412f2bd29f43/ss_%E2%80%98stand-your-ground%E2%80%99-law.html[/url]




Surveillance video obtained by The Post shows McGlockton walking up to Michael Drejka, 47, who was arguing with McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, 24, over a handicapped parking spot at the Circle A Food store on Sunset Point Road in Clearwater on Thursday.

Detectives from the sheriff’s office said Jacobs had parked her 2016 Chrysler 2000 in a handicapped spot without a permit, leading to the argument with Drejka that prompted a witness to alert a clerk inside.

That’s when McGlockton, who is black, exited the store and approached Drejka, shoving him violently to the ground with both hands, surveillance video shows. While still on the ground, Drejka, who is white, then pulled out a gun and shot McGlockton, firing a single round that struck him in the chest, deputies said.

The young father then staggered back into the store and collapsed in front of the couple’s 5-year-old son, who is named after McGlockton, Jacobs told the Tampa Bay Times. He was pronounced dead a short time later.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1196748]For Something Different, I am sure the NRA will be happy.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/0f132337-4ee2-360f-9376-412f2bd29f43/ss_%E2%80%98stand-your-ground%E2%80%99-law.html[/url]




Surveillance video obtained by The Post shows McGlockton walking up to Michael Drejka, 47, who was arguing with McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, 24, over a handicapped parking spot at the Circle A Food store on Sunset Point Road in Clearwater on Thursday.

Detectives from the sheriff’s office said Jacobs had parked her 2016 Chrysler 2000 in a handicapped spot without a permit, leading to the argument with Drejka that prompted a witness to alert a clerk inside.

That’s when McGlockton, who is black, exited the store and approached Drejka, shoving him violently to the ground with both hands, surveillance video shows. While still on the ground, Drejka, who is white, then pulled out a gun and shot McGlockton, firing a single round that struck him in the chest, deputies said.

The young father then staggered back into the store and collapsed in front of the couple’s 5-year-old son, who is named after McGlockton, Jacobs told the Tampa Bay Times. He was pronounced dead a short time later.[/QUOTE]Nobody is happy at a death of a 5yo's parent.

That said, i wonder why race was brought into it, i wonder why the shooters age and the female's age were listed but not the man who "violently" pushed the other man down i wonder if the violent man was physically more imposing then the 47 yo, i wonder if it would have happened had they not parked illegally, i wonder if the 47yo man was handicapped in some way and had a reason to need that spot, i wonder if the other man could have had a permit to carry and instead of initiating an altercation by pushing, would the two guns have settled things down since neither would legally be the first to use one (MADD gun ownership theory).

Basically i wonder if the report could have been more slanted but i dont think so.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196749]Nobody is happy at a death of a 5yo's parent.

That said, i wonder why race was brought into it, i wonder why the shooters age and the female's age were listed but not the man who "violently" pushed the other man down i wonder if the violent man was physically more imposing then the 47 yo, i wonder if it would have happened had they not parked illegally, i wonder if the 47yo man was handicapped in some way and had a reason to need that spot, i wonder if the other man could have had a permit to carry and instead of initiating an altercation by pushing, would the two guns have settled things down since neither would legally be the first to use one (MADD gun ownership theory).

Basically i wonder if the report could have been more slanted but i dont think so.[/quote]

No more slanted then your opinion.



So killing someone over a handicap parking space is cool ,I get it.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1196753]No more slanted then your opinion.



So killing someone over a handicap parking space is cool ,I get it.[/quote]

I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1196754]I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.[/quote]

Exactly, seems that everyone agrees the one man was pushed to the ground and that the other man had no weapon of any kind,none.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1196753]No more slanted then your opinion.



So killing someone over a handicap parking space is cool ,I get it.[/QUOTE]

But defending yourself from a young physically fit man(regardless of race) who has attacked you isnt cool. Got it.

Keep in mind, I doubt that the guy introduced himself and said he had a 5yo in the store and i am sorry we parked in a handicapped spot. Its nice to add facts after the event happens, but in the moment all this guy knew is whatever the lady had said to him and that this guy came out and attacked him.

I am sorry the man lost his life and especially that the children lost their father.

Finally, I wonder if it would have happened if the initial interaction between the lady and man included the woman apologizing and parking in a different spot.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1196754]I simply don’t understand how that video is lawful. Instead of pulling the gun the guy should have called the police and the victim should have been charged with simple assault. That law needs to change.[/QUOTE]Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Look at the time between when he gets pushed down to the hesitation between firing (at least 4 seconds). Ignoring the fact that the guy backed off after he pushed him down, he literally sat there and pondered his next move, before he decided to fire. That's insane. Yeah there was shock from being unexpectedly pushed but that should dissipate after a few seconds, then he should reassess the situation (am I still being physically attacked? No. Is my life in imminent danger? No). Instead he hesitated, then shot a guy standing there who clearly had no intention of continuing on with a sucker punch or anything like that.

That law is fucked. Waiting for the day when some guy gets shot because someone felt they were being looked at in a threatening manner.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196760]Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.[/quote]

If you're going to carry in public to protect yourself, you need to be able to keep a cool head in situations like this.

I get that the guy was in shock from being pushed to the ground unexpectedly, but if he had waited just a couple seconds to collect his breath the tension probably would've deescalated. Instead look at the hesitation between when he draws and when the guy staggers backward after being shot. He literally sat there, hesitated (probably thinking do I do this?... yes) then shot him.

Was his life in immediate danger? No. But he wasn't thinking rationally, as soon as he got pushed he went into DEFCON 5 and decided to eliminate the threat. That is not the sign of a rational, intelligent gun owner. That's the sign of a guy who carries because he's just waiting for the shit to pop off (no metaphor intended).

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196759]But defending yourself from a young physically fit man(regardless of race) who has attacked you isnt cool. Got it.

Keep in mind, I doubt that the guy introduced himself and said he had a 5yo in the store and i am sorry we parked in a handicapped spot. Its nice to add facts after the event happens, but in the moment all this guy knew is whatever the lady had said to him and that this guy came out and attacked him.

I am sorry the man lost his life and especially that the children lost their father.

Finally, I wonder if it would have happened if the initial interaction between the lady and man included the woman apologizing and parking in a different spot.[/quote]
Talking about a spin / slant??? "[B]Physically fit man[/B],where does that come into play in the law,where does age ,come into the law ? The man thought the white gentleman was harassing his wife and mother of his child and went to defend her as anyone would.How do you know the white man was not "[B]Physically fit"?[/B] the dead man had no weapon of any kind and was in a public place. Had the white man gone on his own way there would be no dead man ,correct?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1196762]If you're going to carry in public to protect yourself, you need to be able to keep a cool head in situations like this.

I get that the guy was in shock from being pushed to the ground unexpectedly, but if he had waited just a couple seconds to collect his breath the tension probably would've deescalated. Instead look at the hesitation between when he draws and when the guy staggers backward after being shot. He literally sat there, hesitated (probably thinking do I do this?... yes) then shot him.

Was his life in immediate danger? No. But he wasn't thinking rationally, as soon as he got pushed he went into DEFCON 5 and decided to eliminate the threat. That is not the sign of a rational, intelligent gun owner. That's the sign of a guy who carries because he's just waiting for the shit to pop off (no metaphor intended).[/QUOTE]I have watched the video several times. The attacker comes out of the store walking then suddenly runs lunges and attacks. The shooter is now on the ground as he turns and rhe attacker makes the unfortunate hand movement of reaching to his waistband behind his back. That is likely what triggered the shot. I dont know the time from shooter pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting the man to his clutching his chest but its probably a good several seconds. For a comparison of reaction times, look how long from the man going in to the woman following. In real time that was probably very immediate but on the video that span of time is incredibly long compared to the run, attack, turn, shoot, and clutch portion of the same video at the same speed.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196765]I have watched the video several times. The attacker comes out of the store walking then suddenly runs lunges and attacks. The shooter is now on the ground as he turns and rhe attacker makes the unfortunate hand movement of reaching to his waistband behind his back. That is likely what triggered the shot. I dont know the time from shooter pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting the man to his clutching his chest but its probably a good several seconds. For a comparison of reaction times, look how long from the man going in to the woman following. In real time that was probably very immediate but on the video that span of time is incredibly long compared to the run, attack, turn, shoot, and clutch portion of the same video at the same speed.[/quote]

So have I , you're wrong.It was murder.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1196766]So have I , you're wrong.It was murder.[/QUOTE]For now Pinellas county says you are incorrect. Next the state of Florida will either agree or disagree, and finally a jury will determine if it was in fact a wrongful death. I will defer to their judgements, I merely was arguing there are more views than one slanted article's viewpoint.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1196760]Do you know if the woman had threatened that her man would hurt him if he didnt leave? Do you know that the guy on the ground had time to stop and frisk him to find out if he had weapons.
Hindsight is great for fact finding but when your on the ground and a man half your age comes at you, i think you should have the right to defend yourself

I see it now, guy gets attacked, puts his hand up and says wait good sir, may i please call the police and report your actions. And of course the attacker says, oh why of course please report me. I am so glad you are a civic minded individual.

You are talking seconds to react to a guy who came out of the story, attacked you, and had the upper hand to hurt you more if he chooses.[/quote]

So there wasn’t a way to diffuse the situation? I don’t think anyone should have gotten shot. Seems like the Wild West.