Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618723]BTW, there's a lot of interest in Campbell around the league right now, specifically from franchises out west. I would not be surprised if Matt Hasselbeck was the quarterback here next year.

Just saying.[/quote]

I'm all for moving Campbell if we could get something for him. But I dont see it. I think the FO's attempt earlier this year to trade him proved that....

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618722]Campbell's issue appears to be that he's been handed a "now or never" scenario, and then given a team with no chance to win now. It's pretty obvious that Campbell is not the right quarterback for this team. Campbell's defense is not trash, it's giving him plenty of chances to win games, but the expectation from the front office is that Campbell leads an offensive resurgence that scores lots of points.

[B]You're getting a lot of fumbles and interceptions and careless play from Campbell that seem to just be a result of the situation.[/B] Erratic quarterback play is not what this team requires right now, but the front office pretty much got what they asked for.[/quote]The problems I've mentioned about JC are his and his alone. I'm not sure what situation you mean. He can control those things. He can't control a ball getting batted at the line for an INT, and I didn't slam him for that play. He can't control Heyer and Williams missing blocks, and in those instances I've not criticized him.

His ball security has been poor and it's not improving. His long release and his bad habit of "patting" the ball before a throw causes a delay in the ball getting out and missed opportunities. His inaccuracy, missing open receivers, and not making audibles are his fault. If audibles are not available to him in the system, then that's Zorn's fault.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618723]BTW, there's a lot of interest in Campbell around the league right now, specifically from franchises out west. I would not be surprised if Matt Hasselbeck was the quarterback here next year.

Just saying.[/quote]If that's true, put JC on the bench so he doesn't get hurt or continue his poor play and he has some value in the off-season.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618726]I'm all for moving Campbell if we could get something for him. But I dont see it. I think the FO's attempt earlier this year to trade him proved that....[/quote]Well, they could have moved him to Tampa for a second/third round pick if they had been more punctual (Tampa pulled out, not coincidentally, after KSU's pro day), but the whole plan was bad from the beginning. Have you seen what Cutler is doing this year? Campbell has never had a game as bad as Cutler has had against either Green Bay or Cincinnati this year.

If we traded Campbell at this point, we'd likely get a late round draft pick or a backup QB. But there will be a lot of QBs released from their contracts this offseason who we can bring in. The free agent class is Chad Pennington, Daunte Culpepper and a bunch of nobodies, but I could see any of the following players released:

Matt Hasselbeck
Mark Bulger
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Alex Smith
Shaun Hill
Billy Volek
Brodie Croyle
Byron Leftwich
Jim Sorgi
Chris Simms

Of course, the only two players on that list that would represent an upgrade over Campbell are Hasselbeck and Pennington...who are both injury risks.

I think we'll address QB in the draft, but not in the first round.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Pennington's career is likely over, and besides having an absolutley shot, raggedy throwing arm that never had strength to begin with, i dont see how he would make the difference here. The team needs the throw downfield. Chad is a great QB bu he never had the arm even in his prime before all the injuries....

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;618727]The problems I've mentioned about JC are his and his alone. I'm not sure what situation you mean. He can control those things. He can't control a ball getting batted at the line for an INT, and I didn't slam him for that play. He can't control Heyer and Williams missing blocks, and in those instances I've not criticized him.

His ball security has been poor and it's not improving. His long release and his bad habit of "patting" the ball before a throw causes a delay in the ball getting out and missed opportunities. His inaccuracy, missing open receivers, and not making audibles are his fault. If audibles are not available to him in the system, then that's Zorn's fault.[/quote]Well, ball security has been an issue going back to the first game, and it's really just deteriorated since then. Inaccuracy is a more recent problem, and no less troubling.

There's plenty to not like about Campbell's play right now, but the only thing that's different between this year and last year is the expectations and consequences. The Redskins don't score points, and they are really, really hoping that Jason Campbell is the reason. But, I think we've seen that Campbell succeeding at ball security and mid-range completions and failing at them are not the difference between the Redskins scoring points and not.

You and I both know that Jason Campbell is incapable of giving the Redskins what they want, and we both know he's capable of playing better than he is right now. Here's where the siutation is at fault: should Campbell be more conservative with his mechanics giving the situation, even if it would make him a better player? Protecting the ball, and not throwing INTs gives this team it's best chance to win, but it does nothing for Jason Campbell's long term future of this team. Winning 6 games because of improvements in ball security still means a change at QB next year. And that's where the problem lies: there's no incentive to do the small things (which are 100% in his control) better because Campbell is getting blamed for the big picture things which ne has no control over. And that's because we're a horrendous organization.

I do not, and have not disagreed with your analysis, and I think you're doing a top notch job. At this point though, I'm finding myself (naturally) less concerned with the what (bad QB play), and more with the why.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618712]They just started getting ridiculous with the permanent bans. I myself got banned for life last night. They gave no reason. I suspected that some of my posts were unpopular with the moderators. I had been there since 2005 with no incidents whatsoever, and then last night got permanently banned. No lie, within the past month, i know of at least 50 people who have been banned for life. I saw 5 or 6 of them on here today.

The board over there is a mess...one guy named "Jumbo", apparantly launched into a racial tirade last night....they even called in about it today on 106.7 The Fan.....its just a couple bad mods ruined it for everyone...[/quote]

Interesting but not surprising. That place has been going downhill for a while now.

Well, you're always welcome here.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618828]Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark[/quote]
Glad you made the leap Snake, but beware. From time to time you will be made sport of...........it's our way
HTTR

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618828]Thanks to everybody who has welcomed me here. I can see already that this is the place for me. People seem friendlier and the whole board has a cleaner, more family style orientation to it.

Also i tip my hand to SmootSmack for keeping me from foolishly going back on ES and launching a tirade..people here are clearly level headed. I can tell you that in the nearly 5 years i spent over there, nobody there ever made me feel welcome like this.

Thank you again.

Mark[/quote]

There'll be a mint on your pillow in the morning. And Hog1 will be stopping by later in the afternoon to turn your bed, offer you fresh towels, and, if you're interested, some shiatsu massage

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618732]Pennington's career is likely over, and besides having an absolutley shot, raggedy throwing arm that never had strength to begin with, i dont see how he would make the difference here. The team needs the throw downfield. Chad is a great QB bu he never had the arm even in his prime before all the injuries....[/quote]


Yeah, never understood why Chad was somewhat of a hot commoditiy after his stint with the Jets. Alex Smith would be an intriguing FA move though. I would get Chase Daniel back, keep JC if possible, dump Collins and bring in Smith if we don't draft a QB. JC is a backup QB at best now.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618730] The free agent class is Chad Pennington, Daunte Culpepper and a bunch of nobodies, but I could see any of the following players released:

Matt Hasselbeck
Mark Bulger
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Alex Smith
Shaun Hill
Billy Volek
Brodie Croyle
Byron Leftwich
Jim Sorgi
Chris Simms

Of course, the only two players on that list that would represent an upgrade over Campbell are Hasselbeck and Pennington...who are both injury risks.

I think we'll address QB in the draft, but not in the first round.[/quote]

What a mess.
I read an article recently that had JC as the second best FA QB after Orton, who's probably going to sign before FA.

That's an ugly list.
I would rather stick with JC and fix the OL.

*BTW-I doubt the Vikes release T-Jack.
After they signed Rosenfels they still named T-Jack the No.2 QB because he out played Sage in the preseason.
T-Jack might end up being their QB after Favre retires.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;618849]Yeah, never understood why Chad was somewhat of a hot commoditiy after his stint with the Jets. Alex Smith would be an intriguing FA move though. I would get Chase Daniel back, keep JC if possible, dump Collins and bring in Smith if we don't draft a QB. JC is a backup QB at best now.[/quote]

Woah woah woah. Alex Smith? Why? He's been a colossal bust thus far. Yeah, he had one good game against the 21st ranked D. Nothing really intriguing about him IMO.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;618651]Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.[/quote]

Dude, Jaws both praises and critisizes Campbell, Cossel has been effusive breaking down Campbell passes. As have Brian Billick, Phil Simms. Just this week Collinsworth on Doc Walker, Joey T on the Sports Reporters, John Ritchie on ESPN have all said that JC is a good QB playing behind a suspect OL.

Lol, I like Sammy's reveiws too but he's no more an expert then i am.
You guys share the same opinion but its still just your opinion.



[quote=warriorzpath;618623]Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. [/quote]

I'm not denying that JC misses open receivers or checksdown.
But rather the idea that JC does it more then other QBs and that is how a judgement is made.

[quote]from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks). [/quote]

Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.

[quote]I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first,[/quote]

OL brotha OL it starts right there.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

You know one thing about Alex Smith. Yes he's been a bust so far but he's also been through five offensive coordinators in five seasons. I'm just saying we've used that as an excuse for Campbell...

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;618855]You know one thing about Alex Smith. Yes he's been a bust so far but he's also been through five offensive coordinators in five seasons. I'm just saying we've used that as an excuse for Campbell...[/quote]Smith was also a very young 21 when he made his first start, so you could reasonably assume the light to go on at a later date, but in all likelyhood, he's never even going to make it past the adequacy stage.

Of course, he's still only 25, and Jason Campbell will be 28 on the 31st of December, but I have to think that Campbell has already accomplished more here than Alex Smith will ever get a chance to in his career.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

We don't need to spend high draft picks on linemen though, we just need to develop some of our young linemen (and add some more-namely OTs) and let them gel together. I think a franchise QB can help an OL more than a franchise OL can help a QB

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;618865]We don't need to spend high draft picks on linemen though, we just need to develop some of our young linemen (and add some more-namely OTs) and let them gel together. I think a franchise QB can help an OL more than a franchise OL can help a QB[/quote]I agree with this. If there's one major flaw in Campbell's development since the 6-2 start (and there's probably been a few), it's that he hasn't been particularly easy to protect.

Part of me thinks that he's given the current OL plenty of chances to get their act together, and he probably has, but there's another part of me that thinks one of the reasons that the Redskins are struggling to settle on a starting five is because Campbell's footwork from under center are so inconsistent. It seems like he's become increasingly difficult for the OL to protect, which is one of the way that player regression will manifest.

Of course, if the backs would do a half decent job in blitz pickup, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

The other point is: all the franchise-ness in the world wouldn't help Mike Williams or Jason Fabini be an adequate long-term tackle.

You can live with the so-called replacement level OT, but there's some guys who just shouldn't be on your roster. The Saints are getting it done with Jermon Bushrod at LT, and he can't be any better than Heyer. But the other four guys on their line are excellent, and more importantly, haven't missed a start in quite some time.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618864]Smith was also a very young 21 when he made his first start, so you could reasonably assume the light to go on at a later date, but in all likelyhood, he's never even going to make it past the adequacy stage.

Of course, he's still only 25, and Jason Campbell will be 28 on the 31st of December, but I have to think that Campbell has already accomplished more here than Alex Smith will ever get a chance to in his career.[/quote]

Personally I've never been too impressed with Smith, and was pretty stunned when the Niners passed on Rodgers for him.

Still, in the interest of fairness, I felt it should be pointed out he has had to deal with various coordinators

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;618871]Personally I've never been too impressed with Smith, and was pretty stunned when the Niners passed on Rodgers for him.

Still, in the interest of fairness, I felt it should be pointed out he has had to deal with various coordinators[/quote]It's going to be real interesting with Smith now that he has a largely developed Vernon Davis and a Michael Crabtree running routes with Frank Gore in the backfield there.

Their OL kinda sucks too, but they really could do something down the stretch with Smith at QB. The 49ers have largely been void of talent for much of the second half of the decade, but every one of their first round draft picks since 2005 are now in the starting lineup, which I'm sure is something not a lot of franchises can boast.

Well, I guess Kentwan Balmer isn't, but he was as much of a first rounder as Patrick Ramsey was.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;618871]Personally I've never been too impressed with Smith, and was pretty stunned when the Niners passed on Rodgers for him.
[B]
Still, in the interest of fairness, I felt it should be pointed out he has had to deal with various coordinators[/B][/quote]

that statement pisses me off so much, you are either accurate or not, and honestly he isn't, but i think "[B]I think a franchise QB can help an OL more than a franchise OL can help a QB[/B]" is very ture just look at big ben in pitt, the only problem picking a qb like tha out of the draft is like hitting the mega millions

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;598743]He's off to his best start as a pro, and even the sack rate which is probably the most important stat that isn't contained in QB rating is down around career-best levels.

I think he needs to protect the football better, especially on play action plays. He's almost regressed from last year in that respect.[/quote]

I believe that is due in part because he is pressing. He is trying to make things happen because the offense in general is so stagnate. I can't say that I blame Campbell. You want to stand tall in the pocket, but when you get sacked 6 times and you are probably hit more than double that it is hard to not try and make something happen.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mcarey032;618887]I believe that is due in part because he is pressing. He is trying to make things happen because the offense in general is so stagnate. I can't say that I blame Campbell. You want to stand tall in the pocket, but when you get sacked 6 times and you are probably hit more than double that it is hard to not try and [B]make something happen[/B].[/quote]

i would love nothing more than to say he has but he hasn't, i really loved jc when we drafted he considering i HATE bama, but he hasn't panned out, but i know we will dish him out or just drop him striaght up and he will end up tearing it up some where just hopefully in the afc

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=30gut;618503]Football is a team sport.
You cannot judge a QB by their win/loss record alone.
Look at the W/L records of Rodgers in Green Bay or Drew Brees w/ the Saints(prior to this year).

Even when he has impeccable protection?
When has he even had good protection? Save for a handful of times last game?



The question you need to ask yourself is does JC makes these mistakes [I]more[/I] then other QBs?
And if JC was making all these mistakes more often the other QBs playing behind a worse OL, without a running game, with a average at best receiving corps, and inconsistent to below average play calling and coaching then how is it that he's the 18th rated QB in the league?





Junk yardage?
The TD to Devin Thomas was junk yardage?
On the drive that lead to Fred Davis TD the Eagles weren't playing prevent they were still blitzing.[/quote]

Defend JC all you want. What NFL teams go 40-50 games with a QB who can't win? I'll make a bet right now that after this season he will NOT be an NFL starter. JC simply is not an NFL quality QB. Most of it is mental. There's no way you're going to tell me that JC has never had pass protection in his last 4 seasons. He not a leader and he only can perform when he has confidence [which he's lost].

It is a team sport and JC is not the teams biggest problem. But without a good QB we can never get this offense going.

I'll check in next season and we'll see that the rest of the NFL realizes that Campbell doesn't have the goods.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Speaking of offensive linemen

[url=http://www.detnews.com/article/20091031/SPORTS0101/910310332/1126/SPORTS0101/Jon-Jansen-will-be-on-guard-for-the-Lions]Jon Jansen will be on guard for the Lions | detnews.com | The Detroit News[/url]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;618712]They just started getting ridiculous with the permanent bans. I myself got banned for life last night. They gave no reason. I suspected that some of my posts were unpopular with the moderators. I had been there since 2005 with no incidents whatsoever, and then last night got permanently banned. No lie, within the past month, i know of at least 50 people who have been banned for life. I saw 5 or 6 of them on here today.

The board over there is a mess...one guy named "Jumbo", apparantly launched into a racial tirade last night....they even called in about it today on 106.7 The Fan.....its just a couple bad mods ruined it for everyone...[/quote]
Yep, that place is ridiculous for an "official" board

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mlmdub130;618892]i would love nothing more than to say he has but he hasn't, [B]i really loved jc when we drafted he considering i HATE bama[/B] , but he hasn't panned out, but i know we will dish him out or just drop him striaght up and he will end up tearing it up some where just hopefully in the afc[/quote]

You know JC didn't go to Bama he went to Auburn unless you mean Alabama as a whole

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mcarey032;618887]I believe that is due in part because he is pressing. He is trying to make things happen because the offense in general is so stagnate. I can't say that I blame Campbell. You want to stand tall in the pocket, but when you get sacked 6 times and you are probably hit more than double that it is hard to not try and make something happen.[/quote]
sometimes he pushes through the pocket.. or won't step into it... moves to the wrong part, etc.. it's frustrating

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;618963]Speaking of offensive linemen

[URL="http://www.detnews.com/article/20091031/SPORTS0101/910310332/1126/SPORTS0101/Jon-Jansen-will-be-on-guard-for-the-Lions"]Jon Jansen will be on guard for the Lions | detnews.com | The Detroit News[/URL][/quote]
good for him I guess

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;618688]This probably is all true, but when do you hold him accountable for his own actions and the mistakes that was under his control?[/quote]

I do hold him accountable for overthrows, running into sacks, going threw his progressions to fast, but that doesn't stop me from supporting him. All QB do these things but it's pointed out more when you are on a losing team. JC deserves some criticism but not all of the criticism WR's, RB's, OL, TE's need to come out and say ok we realize our QB is struggling and obviously he doesn't trust us to an extent what can we do better. I realize this comes with the territory but if his teammates come to bat for him and publicly endorse and support him like they did Zorn. I feel that would show JC were not using you as a scapegoat we haven't giving up on you even if they have.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;618968] but if his teammates come to bat for him and publicly endorse and support him like they did Zorn. I feel that would show JC were not using you as a scapegoat we haven't giving up on you even if they have.[/quote]

I think to a man JC's teammates support him.
I think the people that don't support him are the FO and quasi-fans.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mcarey032;618887]I believe that is due in part because he is pressing. He is trying to make things happen because the offense in general is so stagnate. I can't say that I blame Campbell. You want to stand tall in the pocket, but when you get sacked 6 times and you are probably hit more than double that it is hard to not try and make something happen.[/quote]

No he's not. In the first half of the Philly game, there were 2 or 3 plays where he had all day to throw, and instead of going downfield, he either checked down or threw to the flat. If he was desperately trying to make something happen, he would have said eff it and let 'er rip. Even during the best streak of his career, the 6-2 start last year, he threw 8 TDs in 8 games. Big whoop. Aside from Brad Johnson and Trent Green, we've started back-up quality QBs for well over a decade now.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616691]You guys are funny. Look at the league, ever successful QB, except Flacco and Ryan have been in the same Offensive system for long periods of time. Changing everything every year has not worked yet nor will it ever. The longer the QB is in the same system the more successful he is...look it up.[/quote]

And look how terrible Brees was when he went to the Saints from the Chargers. It took him a good 5 years to get acclimated. And remember how Brady came in for Bledsoe and screwed everything up. They could have gone far in the playoffs that year if only Brady had more time to learn the system. Pennington sucked last year too when he went to the Dolphins. It's all about time in the system. I agree.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;616714]New QB means at least two more years of losing. New QB + learning a new Offense + bad O-Line = New Coach which brings us to our current position again.[/quote]

It's OK. I don't think fans care so much about losing, as long as they're building up to something. I'd gladly suffer through a 3 year re-building process if it meant we were a perennial contender for the next 10-15 years and had a true franchise QB we never had to bicker about.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=30gut;618854]
Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.
[/quote]

I started to express some points to counter your responses with all that you said (and not what I have just quoted you on), but I feel like I'm repeating myself.

All I want to ask to you is - do you agree with some others on here that jason campbell is playing very well this season?

Then I can see where you're at in the way you are thinking.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=30gut;618977]I think to a man JC's teammates support him.
I think the people that don't support him are the FO and quasi-fans.[/quote]
Are you his agent?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;619004]I started to express some points to counter your responses with all that you said (and not what I have just quoted you on), but I feel like I'm repeating myself.

All I want to ask to you is - do you agree with some others on here that jason campbell is playing very well this season?

Then I can see where you're at in the way you are thinking.[/quote]


JC is the 18th ranked QB in the NFL.

JC is playing about as well as can be expected given the circumstances.

Being the QB for this Redskins team with the OL issues, lack of a ground game and suspect coaching/playcalling is not conducive to playing very well.

Barring a strong second half (not just stats but with wins and a general upward trend of the team), JC will be starting for someone next year.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=tryfuhl;619006]Are you his agent?[/quote]

Are you a troll?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=30gut;619235]Are you a troll?[/quote]
Are you mad and have an inflated ego?

Systems don't make you inaccurate, being inaccurate does.