Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=skinsfan69;905806]Hopefully we don't take any wr's. The funny thing is Shanahan wanted to bring in ANOTHER wr in Royal. I will never understand this organizations obsession with wr's.[/quote]

Of course Shanahan wanted Royal. Shanahan drafted him after all and Eddie Royal had his most productive season when Mike Shanahan was the head coach of the Denver Broncos. It's always a positive thing when a head coach wants to bring in a player that he used to coach.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Two comments:

The opportunity cost of drafting a WR seems absurdly high at this point. We blew our FA cash on two WRs who may bring a different dynamic to the offense, but I think people are being way too presumptious saying this is by any means a guarantee. Neither Garcon nor Morgan are burner or big-body #1 WR types, period. It's the passing offense, which looks to be almost entirely in Kyle's hands, and QB performance that set the opportunities and constraints our WR corp faces. Well, it's still a worthwhile debate whether the current regime's obsession w/ adding new WR talent every off-season was a product of lousy QBs or subpar scheme. Well, we got the QB and still blew the whole enchilada on more WRs. All it really tells us is the braintrust of Mike and Kyle don't know what the hell the answer is either...seriously that's the bottom line.

Regarding Tana, someone basically said if Griffin's presence/leadership lights a new fire we'll see Tana rebound from last season. I agree w/ this. When Tana wants to be good he can be really good (still) and yes at that point he is the best WR on the current roster. On the other hand if he just goes through the motions on gameday Tana is pretty much worthless because he's no longer a burner and obviously was never a big-body #1 type.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[url=http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/04/02/cosell-talks-the-slot-factor/]Cosell Talks: The Slot Factor : NFL Films Blog[/url]

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/redskins-talk/Tale-of-the-tape-Moss-vs-Gaffney?blockID=682760&feedID=10316]Tale of the tape: Moss vs. Gaffney[/url]

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Moss vs. Gaffney. The brawl for it all.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I think both should be retained.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=The Goat;906797]I think both should be retained.[/quote]

I'd considering dumping them both. But I'd probably bring them both to camp.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Is there anyway that we can get rid of one or both for a late round draft pick?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=mbedner3420;906806]Is there anyway that we can get rid of one or both for a late round draft pick?[/quote]that would be nice but i doubt it. i'd like to keep both

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Going into the 2012 campaign w/ a rookie QB, two FA WR editions (one coming off serious injury) and a 2nd yr player who saw little gameday action and is also coming off a very serious injury seems risky as hell. Honestly I won't be surprised if Gaffney is our most productive WR again this year. And if Moss gets his sh!t together he could be the guy.

Like every off-season folks are getting too excited about our "new toys" from FA. Both Garcon and Morgan will have to adapt to a new system and new QB simultaneously. Unless Mike and Kyle are going to put the whole offense in Griffin's hands, as Carolina did for Cam, we should expect some time for chemistry to develop.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;906799]I'd considering dumping them both. But I'd probably bring them both to camp.[/QUOTE]



Agree 100%.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906813]Agree 100%.[/quote]

I'll third that. If Gaffney and Moss can't step up their production by having a guy like RG3 or Luck come in then they don't deserve a roster spot. I'm putting them on notice starting April 27th.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=The Goat;906812]And if Moss gets his sh!t together he could be the guy....Like every off-season folks are getting too excited about our "new toys" from FA.[/quote]I would bet dollars to donuts that a healthy Moss using training camp to remind everyone just how good is and that he'll use the training camp competition to earn the right to be one of the top 2 WRs on the team.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=30gut;906819]I would bet dollars to donuts that a healthy Moss using training camp to remind everyone just how good is and that he'll use the training camp competition to earn the right to be one of the top 2 WRs on the team.[/quote]

Pretty plausible. Who's starting opposite: Garcon or Gaffney?

[QUOTE=30gut;906819]I would bet dollars to donuts that a healthy Moss using training camp to remind everyone just how good is and that he'll use the training camp competition to earn the right to be one of the top 2 WRs on the team.[/QUOTE]

Moss will have to play the slot if he wants to make the team. We payed Garçon #1 WR money so he will be the #1 no matter what moss does on preseason.


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I am here: [url]http://tapatalk.com/map.php?31fgim[/url]

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906785]Moss vs. Gaffney. The brawl for it all.[/quote]

Why can't we dump someone else? Armstrong? Anderson? Robinson or Paul? Banks?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;906829]Why can't[B] we dump someone else? [/B]Armstrong? Anderson? Robinson or Paul? Banks?[/quote]
^^^^^^

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;906829]Why can't we dump someone else? Armstrong? Anderson? Robinson or Paul? Banks?[/QUOTE]



Anderson? Gone
Robinson? Back to PS
Armstrong? See Ya
Banks? Outta Here

Hankerson/Garcon/Morgan/Paul (plays ST)/Draft pick

Only see room for 1 30+ year old WR.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

With AA's speed it would be nice if he could get back on track. He's going to need to have a strong preseason.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=redskins5044;906828]Moss will have to play the slot if he wants to make the team. We payed Garçon #1 WR money so he will be the #1 no matter what moss does on preseason.[/quote]Moss already does most of his damage from the slot.

[quote=The Goat;906822]Pretty plausible. Who's starting opposite: Garcon or Gaffney?[/quote]I guess Garcon is considered the X receiver.
But if Morgan is healthy he seems more like a true X WR then anyone else on the roster which would move Garcon to the Z.
Moss could play the slot and still be targeted like the #2 WR.

Hopefully we won't be in base personnel too much.
If we keep Moss, Gaffney, Morgan and Garcon + Fred Davis @ TE that makes for a pretty good spread shotgun line-up.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

.............................

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

What's with all the Gaffney love?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906843]What's with all the Gaffney love?[/quote]

Very telling of how deprived we are.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906843]What's with all the Gaffney love?[/quote]

I don't understand that either. I've been saying Moss has been money for us since we acquired him. Of course last season was one of his less productive ones, he was injured for what? A month or more? In which case Gaffney HAD to step up and be the #1, we had no one else. I understand that Moss is old but so is Gaffney.

Apparently 1 productive season is worth more than several years worth in these parts. I'm not saying Moss is far superior, but he's equal if not a bit better than and if anyone should be dumped, it should be both of them.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906843]What's with all the Gaffney love?[/quote]

Jabar Gaffney might not be a #1 receiver, but at times he played like it last year. The guy was money. I've always been a fan of Gaffney. Look for Gaffney to be open underneath all season long while Garcon and Moss go deep.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906843]What's with all the Gaffney love?[/quote]

Some fans are so enamored with their visions of how our team should be built (draft and sign nothing but offensive linemen, skill position players should all be 'young and hungry', any free agent we spend on is wasted money) that they will take the contrary view of all activity that falls outside their opinion on principle.

Gaffney is the perfect example of acceptance of mediocrity. He's been a Redskin for one year, had an average (if that) year for an NFL WR and at 31 has limited upside, but since we spent money on WR and not OL in free agency he's a wounded hero and must be defended.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;906856]I don't understand that either. I've been saying Moss has been money for us since we acquired him. Of course last season was one of his less productive ones, he was injured for what? A month or more? In which case Gaffney HAD to step up and be the #1, we had no one else. I understand that Moss is old but so is Gaffney.

Apparently 1 productive season is worth more than several years worth in these parts. I'm not saying Moss is far superior, but he's equal if not a bit better than and if anyone should be dumped, it should be both of them.[/quote]

For me it's more Gaffney by default, not it terms of Gaffney v Moss (because I think we should keep both), because he has experience in the system and performed well last year in pretty lousy circumstances i.e. Rex/Beck and no real WR threat playing opposite. Garcon is new to the system, as is Morgan but he's also coming off injury. Add in Hankerson's injury and I actually won't be surprised if Moss and Gaffney are Griffin's main WR targets to start the regular season.

I don't get the Madden mentality you can just plug flashy new FA WRs into a new system w/ a new QB and wham you have instant chemistry. I hope that happens, just don't believe it to be likely.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=30gut;906819]I would bet dollars to donuts that a healthy Moss using training camp to remind everyone just how good is and that he'll use the training camp competition to earn the right to be one of the top 2 WRs on the team.[/quote]

Is Moss able to turn back the clock as well? How did his hand injury last year prevent him from gaining YAC and separation from CB and LB? We need to realize that Moss isn't a 28 year old burner anymore. He's more likely (even if healthy) to be a 3rd receiver than one of the top 2 WR on the team.

Our most explosive receiving weapons should be:
Garçon
Hankerson
Davis
Morgan
Cooley/Moss
Gaffney
Paul

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

gaffney is a good wr w good size. who is the last good wr we had w decent size? what's w the gaffney hate?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=los panda;906867]gaffney is a good wr w good size. who is the last good wr we had w decent size? what's w the gaffney hate?[/quote]

Hankerson.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=los panda;906867]gaffney is a good wr w good size. who is the last good wr we had w decent size? what's w the gaffney hate?[/quote]

And if we're talking in terms of mobility, Moss is better, with a 42 vertical against Gaffney's 34. So the size thing is kinda... moot?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;906869]And if we're talking in terms of mobility, Moss is better, with a 42 vertical against Gaffney's 34. So the size thing is kinda... moot?[/quote]

Granted those numbers are old.

Wait a minute, wtf. Both of these guys are old! Isn't it bad when we have to decide which old guy to keep?!

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

i love moss. i like gaffney. no hate in my heart

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Paintrain;906866]Is Moss able to turn back the clock as well? How did his hand injury last year prevent him from gaining YAC and separation from CB and LB? We need to realize that Moss isn't a 28 year old burner anymore. He's more likely (even if healthy) to be a 3rd receiver than one of the top 2 WR on the team.

[B]Our most explosive receiving weapons should be:
Garçon
Hankerson
Davis
Morgan
Cooley/Moss
Gaffney
Paul[/B][/quote]

Maybe in 2013...although Hankerson's health/durability is such a big question ? at this point I can't imagine the FO sees it this way. Using most our FA $ on WRs would be pretty irrational if Bruce/Mike/Kyle thought Hank was going to make an impact this season.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

hankerson had one good game after spending a lot of time on the practice squad. need a larger sample

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;906869]And if we're talking in terms of mobility, Moss is better, with a 42 vertical against Gaffney's 34. So the size thing is kinda... moot?[/quote]

That's interesting man...that f*cking interesting. Thing about Moss that frustrates me is I really suspect he loafs it more often than not...like he's afraid of leaving it all out on the field but still coming up short somehow. Maybe his time to make a big impact are over anyway, but if he would put the effort in he's arguably the most talented WR on the roster...and he fits Kyle's system the best at this point IMO.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=The Goat;906877]That's interesting man...that f*cking interesting. Thing about Moss that frustrates me is[B] I really suspect he loafs it more often than not...like he's afraid of leaving it all out on the field but still coming up short somehow.[/B] Maybe his time to make a big impact are over anyway, but if he would put the effort in he's arguably the most talented WR on the roster...and he fits Kyle's system the best at this point IMO.[/quote]

I think a lot of people phoned it in last season, especially towards the end because by that point nothing was going right. But when was the last time Moss was playing with an above average QB? JC? Ramsey? :Smoker:

After getting RGIII confidence level will probably be pretty high, I don't expect much loafing if any.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;906879]I think a lot of people phoned it in last season, especially towards the end because by that point nothing was going right. But when was the last time Moss was playing with an above average QB? JC? Ramsey? :Smoker:

[B]After getting RGIII confidence level will probably be pretty high, I don't expect much loafing if any.[/B][/quote]

This by infinity!

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

griffin is the oil to fry the wings after grossman baked them in his boring oven. griff makes them crispy and desirable

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=The Goat;906874]Maybe in 2013...although Hankerson's health/durability is such a big question ? at this point I can't imagine the FO sees it this way. Using most our FA $ on WRs would be pretty irrational if Bruce/Mike/Kyle thought Hank was going to make an impact this season.[/quote]

The Garçon contract is big, no doubt, but they expect big things from him but Morgan's contract (reportedly) is written in such a way they can get out of it after this season with minimal cap damage. I'd call him more of Hankerson insurance than a replacement or someone expected to provide the expected impact of Hankerson.

Ideally, I think Shanny sees Garçon over the top and taking crossing routes for big gains, Hankerson as the chain mover across the middle of the field and a red zone target & Morgan in the Gaffney role of 3rd down receiver or can beat an overmatched corner/safety. I don't think there's much expectation for Moss or Gaffney in the plans going forward. If we got Royal, I'm pretty sure Moss would have been cut or would be a June 1 cut because he would become our slot WR. Since we didn't, Moss may survive but don't be surprised to see a relatively high pick, even our third rounder, used on a slot type WR (Joe Adams/Ryan Broyles) for the future.