Re: All things off season 2015.
 

^ your always quite the know it all NC, you know Gibbs coached with his heart. Not only to lose a friend, someone you coached and mentored and then to lose in the fashion they did in Seattle in the playoffs? It probably exhausted the man. Don't insult Gibbs, nor the effect of losing what he treated his players like, FAMILY. Its insulting to insinuate that you know what happened, when chances are it DID play a huge roll in what happened. Please, show more respect dude

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Totally agree. No question losing ST hit Gibbs hard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1111879]Losing ST did nothing in the grand scheme in term of Gibbs walking away. Gibbs wasn't dumb. He knew the team was old and that he had no depth. He simply bailed while he could still muster a competitive team. He knew good and well the moves they made were short term and the window had closed. There wasn't anything noble or some higher calling for Gibbs walking away. He simply quit while the getting was good.[/quote]

I would put this at about 100% wrong, Gibbs team went 6-2 under Zorn, and that was without Gibbs input on the draft/FA. He could have made the team younger and made a more complete team.

I didn't say it was noble or a higher calling, not even sure what that means. He simply was exhausted from the emotional toll of a football season, and ST's death was the tipping point. (all that is my humble opinion of course)

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

On a different note Walters Football graded last year's draft rumors from national media figures:

[QUOTE]

I took a glance back and counted how many "wins" and "losses" each reporter had. I didn't look at whom they slotted in their mock drafts - the Wall Street Journal did a good job of that - but rather, my task was delving into reports that said "Team X really likes Player A," or "Team Y plans to trade up."

National Media (2014):

Tony Pauline: 4-3
Bob Holtzman: 2-0
Adam Caplan: 2-1
Chris Mortensen: 2-2
Peter King: 5-6
Charlie Campbell: 2-3
Tom Curran: 1-0
Jeremy Fowler: 1-0
Pete Schrager: 1-1
Jay Glazer: 1-1
Dane Brugler: 1-1
Todd McShay: 1-1
Daniel Jeremiah: 1-2
Ian Rapoport: 2-5
Adam Schefter: 1-3
Jason La Canfora: 0-1
Charley Casserly: 0-1
Ashley Fox: 0-1
Gil Brandt: 0-1
Charles Robinson: 0-1
Field Yates: 0-1
Shawn Zobel: 0-1
Mel Kiper: 0-2
Ed Werder: 0-2
Russ Lande: 0-2
Matt Miller: 0-2
Pro Football Talk: 0-3
Read more at [url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2014rumorsresults.php#zlekt4jotijBjPBi.99]2014 NFL Draft Rumors Results - WalterFootball.com[/url]
[/QUOTE]

Does it shock you PFT was 0-3?

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111890]Does it shock you PFT was 0-3?[/quote]

No. It shocks me that Jason La Canfora has a job.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1111905]No. It shocks me that Jason La Canfora has a job.[/QUOTE]
Yeah me too.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=Meks;1111886]^ your always quite the know it all NC, you know Gibbs coached with his heart. Not only to lose a friend, someone you coached and mentored and then to lose in the fashion they did in Seattle in the playoffs? It probably exhausted the man. Don't insult Gibbs, nor the effect of losing what he treated his players like, FAMILY. Its insulting to insinuate that you know what happened, when chances are it DID play a huge roll in what happened. Please, show more respect dude[/quote]

I didn't say it was a fact. It's my opinion on the matter. I know Gibbs was loved by his players and he had a big heart, while having a connection with them. I've never denied that. What I said wasn't an insult to Gibbs. He's one of the top coaches of all time (if not the best). I never said Gibbs was wrong for walking away either, just noted it wasn't some noble reasoning (like ST/family/etc). When I state something is fact, I'll note is as much. You guys get too butthurt over criticism of your favorite legends. Again, this is merely my opinion on the matter. Stop treating it as if I said this was the exact case.



[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111889]I would put this at about 100% wrong, Gibbs team went 6-2 under Zorn, and that was without Gibbs input on the draft/FA. He could have made the team younger and made a more complete team.[/quote]


I said Gibbs knew the team was old and had no depth. Guess what? That downfall after the 6-2 run was due to injuries. They had no depth, and the team was one of the oldest in the league. Gibbs had to know it would require a lot of luck to win with that team.


[quote]I didn't say it was noble or a higher calling, not even sure what that means. He simply was exhausted from the emotional toll of a football season, and ST's death was the tipping point. (all that is my humble opinion of course)[/quote]

I know you didn't say it, I said it. I think people paint whatever picture they want instead of looking at the whole picture. I may be way off base. /shrug


edit:

[SIZE="7"][B]I'M SORRY CR & MEKS.I WAS WRONG.[/B][/SIZE]

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111889]I would put this at about 100% wrong, Gibbs team went 6-2 under Zorn, and that was without Gibbs input on the draft/FA. He could have made the team younger and made a more complete team.

I didn't say it was noble or a higher calling, not even sure what that means. [B]He simply was exhausted from the emotional toll of a football season, and ST's death was the tipping point. (all that is my humble opinion of course)[/B][/quote]

Well, your opinion, his words and the opinions of others. - but, hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good revisionist rant.

[quote]“I have never had a season or been around a team that has had to go through all of this,” Gibbs said in an interview last week. “It was hard on us, but it also made us — or me at least — think about our priorities.”

...

“To be in a hole, Sean, the brutal disappointments we had, I felt the team rallied at the end of the year,” Gibbs said Tuesday. “We’re in a position today as opposed to four years ago, bright things are ahead.”[/quote]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/sports/football/09gibbs.html?%20Joe&_r=0[/url]

[quote]After that loss, the team was 5-7 and, combined with the timeout debacle, many veteran players privately expressed concern their coach no longer was capable of handling the job.

Defensive end Phillip Daniels said yesterday that he remembered speaking to one of his teammates that week, and both of them expressed worry about their coach's health. "He just looked so tired," Daniels said.
...

[A]fter the recent run, Gibbs seemed to feel better about the team's standing. The defense, a problem in 2006, had stabilized, the players bonded after Taylor's death and there was a hope around the team that it had identified its quarterback of the future in Jason Campbell.

"I know this: He would never want to leave an organization in disarray," said Brett Fuller, the team chaplain who spent a great deal of time with Gibbs, an evangelical Christian. "So us making the playoffs probably more than anything helped him make his decision." [/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR2008010801636_2.html?sid=ST2008010804632]Redskins' Gibbs Resigns As Coach[/url]

Then, of course, there is the opinion of that football know-nothing John Clayton:

[quote]He resigned because the job has taken its toll and he wants to spend more time with his family, especially his 2-year-old grandson Taylor, who was diagnosed with leukemia last year.
...

The 2007 season was a drain on Gibbs. Though successful in making the playoffs for the second time in three years, Gibbs and the entire organization paid an emotional price with the tragic death of Sean Taylor. Taylor, a former first-round pick, had a bumpy start in Washington because he was hardheaded and a little rebellious, but he matured into a great player and better person in 2007. Gibbs helped in that process.
...

Gibbs leaves the Redskins a much better team than the one he inherited. He assembled a top coaching staff. He appears to have found a quarterback in Campbell, and he built a strong running game with Clinton Portis. The defense, coached by coordinator Gregg Williams, is solid.[/quote]

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3186258[/url]

Seemed to be other's opinions as well:

[quote]How much better off are the Redskins now than they were four years ago? The answer goes far deeper than the improvement from 5-11 under Steve Spurrier in 2003 to two brief playoff appearances. After Snyder's sequence of petulant coaching purges, Gibbs inherited an organization with almost zero cohesion, collective self-esteem or internal trust. Spurrier, the most casual and disengaged of NFL coaches, barely seemed to know all his players' first names, let alone worry about their character or ability to interact and lead. Gibbs rebuilt the team from the inside out, stressing personal qualities almost as much, at times, as raw athletic ability. [/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR2008010804885.html]Thomas Boswell - In Touch With His Priorities[/url]

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

^^ Just as an aside - Google and the internet. Amazing! Took me all of two minutes to find articles from seven years ago. Took me longer to format the answer than to do the research.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111927]^^ Just as an aside - Google and the internet. Amazing! Took me all of two minutes to find articles from seven years ago. Took me longer to format the answer than to do the research.[/quote]

Who said lawyers were useless? I kid..I kid...

Also, only if you actually believe what's said in them. :laughing-


Lastly, I know what was said back then, I just don't buy it.


edit:


[B][SIZE="7"]IT'S DRAFT DAY GUYS!!![/SIZE][/B]

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Great job JoeRedskin. Great job.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1111879]Losing ST did nothing in the grand scheme in term of Gibbs walking away. Gibbs wasn't dumb. He knew the team was old and that he had no depth. He simply bailed while he could still muster a competitive team. He knew good and well the moves they made were short term and the window had closed. There wasn't anything noble or some higher calling for Gibbs walking away. He simply quit while the getting was good.[/quote]

NC my man, I think you're confusing the 1st time he left with the 2nd. When he left in '93 it was primarily because the team was old and the salary cap era was underway. 2nd go around was different

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Hey JoeRedskins, I thought about you when I was listening to Andrew Brandt on the Ross Tucker Podcast, and he gave a perfect example of a going BPA scenario in the draft. Back when he was with the Packers, Brandt recalled their decision to draft Aaron Rodgers. They had Favre at QB, which at that point was not having any issues and QB wasn't really a need.

By the time they got to their pick, Rodgers was their highest rated player and the only player with a first round grade left on their board. So without needing a QB, they rolled the dice, went BPA, and the rest is history. I think this is an excellent example of going BPA in the first round.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1111937]NC my man, I think you're confusing the 1st time he left with the 2nd. When he left in '93 it was primarily because the team was old and the salary cap era was underway. 2nd go around was different[/quote]

Perhaps.


Does this mean I have to admit to the lawyer I was mistaken? God damnit Smoot.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111905]No. It shocks me that Jason La Canfora has a job.[/quote]

Lmao!

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Lol, no hard feelings bro, but yes I do take my favorite legends pretty seriously and its somethin I, obviously, can quickly get fired up about I guess, meant no disrespect, your entitles to your opinion @nc_skins

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1111879]Losing ST did nothing in the grand scheme in term of Gibbs walking away. Gibbs wasn't dumb. He knew the team was old and that he had no depth. He simply bailed while he could still muster a competitive team. He knew good and well the moves they made were short term and the window had closed. There wasn't anything noble or some higher calling for Gibbs walking away. He simply quit while the getting was good.[/QUOTE]


I totally agree - there was no higher calling for him walking away. That being said The guy is cemented in football lore, i really cant see him bailing because the window was closing. I think your all overthinking this. He was old. He came back for a few years, and simply had enough of coaching.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1111940]Hey JoeRedskins, I thought about you when I was listening to Andrew Brandt on the Ross Tucker Podcast, and he gave a perfect example of a going BPA scenario in the draft. Back when he was with the Packers, Brandt recalled their decision to draft Aaron Rodgers. They had Favre at QB, which at that point was not having any issues and QB wasn't really a need.



By the time they got to their pick, Rodgers was their highest rated player and the only player with a first round grade left on their board. So without needing a QB, they rolled the dice, went BPA, and the rest is history. I think this is an excellent example of going BPA in the first round.[/QUOTE]


I didnt know that. I always thought the plan was to grab him and bring him up slowly under Favre. Intetesting. However it is not only an excellent example but Also a miraculous example. There are Im sure a ton of examples for the other side. I dont think you can ever really go 100% BPA or Fill a need in your head while drafting players. If you do you are simply not doing your due diligence with every pick. Gotta weigh every option imo.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=punch it in;1112597]I totally agree - there was no higher calling for him walking away. That being said The guy is cemented in football lore, i really cant see him bailing because the window was closing. I think your all overthinking this. He was old. He came back for a few years, and simply had enough of coaching.[/quote]Yeah, really stupid for anyone to suggest that Gibbs left because the team got old. The team was old every year in Gibbs 2.0. Each season they relied on signing vets and trading up when they did draft, rather than collect and multiply draft picks. It's ignorant to suggest 2007 was any different in that regard. Seems obvious if Gibbs had stayed in 2008 they would have continued to sign vets with a few draft picks to fill holes, business as usual in Gibbs 2.0.

And despite this approach's flaws, such as overall record, making the playoffs every other year sure looks good now, doesn't it?

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Gibbs left the 2nd time mostly due to his Grandson and Taylor took the wind out of him too. End of story.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1112636]Gibbs left the 2nd time mostly due to his Grandson and Taylor took the wind out of him too. End of story.[/QUOTE]


Yeah he was done with football. Thats it. He certainly wasnt worried about losing or sticking around and tarnishing his reputation.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=punch it in;1112640]Yeah he was done with football. Thats it. He certainly wasnt worried about losing or sticking around and tarnishing his reputation.[/quote]

Well, if those two things didn't happen chances are he may have stuck around for a 2nd contract. He still enjoyed coaching but those life events put things in perspective I think.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/12815672/greg-hardy-dallas-cowboys-says-ditching-twitter-insensitive-9-11-related-tweet]Greg Hardy of Dallas Cowboys says he's ditching Twitter after insensitive 9/11-related tweet[/url]

When it comes to being trash, Greg Hardy is top of the heap

All things off season 2015.
 

Brilliant idea to joke about 9/11, right up there with Holocaust jokes. Always hilarious comedy material.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Perhaps Jerra' can spin it that Greg is like mentally challenged in some way (and obviously he is) and get like a provisional pick for next year.
THAT Jerra'.....what a schemer.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

How great would it be for Hardy and Gregory to end up as complete busts for the Pukes? They so deserve it.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=calia;1112841]How great would it be for Hardy and Gregory to end up as complete busts for the Pukes? They so deserve it.[/quote]

Gregory actually seems like he is a good kid with some issues. I hope he can turn things around. He can feel free to dominate Eagles and Giants.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1112870]Gregory actually seems like he is a good kid with some issues. I hope he can turn things around. He can feel free to dominate Eagles and Giants.[/quote]

Unless they meet in the playoffs, they dont even have to play Hardy this year.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=Meks;1112590]Lol, no hard feelings bro, but yes I do take my favorite legends pretty seriously and its somethin I, obviously, can quickly get fired up about I guess, meant no disrespect, your entitles to your opinion @nc_skins[/quote]

None taken good sir.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

Surprise, surprise.

NEW YORK (AP) -- An NFL investigation has found that New England Patriots employees likely deflated footballs and that quarterback Tom Brady was "at least generally aware" of the rules violations.

The NFL began the investigation after the Patriots won the AFC Championship game in January, when the Indianapolis Colts complained that several footballs were under inflated.

The 243-page report released Wednesday said league investigators found no evidence that coach Bill Belichick and team management knew of the practice
[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_PATRIOTS_DEFLATED_FOOTBALLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-06-13-15-55]News from The Associated Press[/url]

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1112955]Surprise, surprise.

NEW YORK (AP) -- An NFL investigation has found that New England Patriots employees likely deflated footballs and that quarterback Tom Brady was "at least generally aware" of the rules violations.

The NFL began the investigation after the Patriots won the AFC Championship game in January, when the Indianapolis Colts complained that several footballs were under inflated.

The 243-page report released Wednesday said league investigators found no evidence that coach Bill Belichick and team management knew of the practice
[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_PATRIOTS_DEFLATED_FOOTBALLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-06-13-15-55]News from The Associated Press[/url][/quote]

so they cheated

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

As have a lot of other teams in the past.
Would not surprise me to know that all of them do it frequently if not all the time.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[url]https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf[/url]

here is the actual report.

i look forward to reading it.

timing of release right after draft is suspicious.
--------------------------
[B]holy snickies - read pages 78 to 88 or so. discussion of text messages and factual narrative, not boring PSI stuff. [/B]

Tom Brady knew and ordered it. Tom Brady lied to the NFL. The Pats counsel didnt let McNally be re-interviewed after they got the text messages.


Rob Kraft sucks. He was demanding an apology?

Tom Brady is a freaking liar.

No way BB didnt know about this.

[B].. and Goddell waited until after the draft to release the report when he had to be aware of its findings weeks if not months ago. [/B]

i quick read a few pages and i suffer from confirmation bias w regards to the Pats ... but this stinks. the nfl is coddling the pats at this point.
-----------------------------------------

[IMG]https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/IrRasit-geLFygmq4C9J_7XYN6s=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3674952/texts.0.PNG[/IMG]

^^ McNally has worked for the pats for 36 years, the other guy is their equipment guy .... and Tom Brady told the investigators he didnt even know who he was?

tom your legacy has taken a huge hit imo. not for deflating balls but for lying and being a douche to levels only seen by Arod.

------------------------------------------------------

Brady refused to cooperate fully with investigators by not turning over emails, text messages and other electronic communications requested Wells and his group.

[url=http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/6/7865849/patriots-deflategate-investigation-results-ted-wells]Patriots likely deflated balls in AFC Championship game, per official investigation - SBNation.com[/url]

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

So spy gate and deflate gate, have the Patriots ever won a legit superbowl? Tuck rule....amazing

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

So it looks like Tom Brady traded some autographs for some deflated balls, yet he didn't know anything about it. They should suspend him about 6 games and dock the Patriots some draft picks. It's not about this one incident, it's about a continued pattern of cheating with this organization. Hell, we got a 36mil cap penalty imposed for something done in an uncapped year.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1112962]So it looks like Tom Brady traded some autographs for some deflated balls, yet he didn't know anything about it. They should suspend him about 6 games and dock the Patriots some draft picks. It's not about this one incident, it's about a continued pattern of cheating with this organization. Hell, we got a 36mil cap penalty imposed for something done in an uncapped year.[/quote]

Because they probably did something wrong... The report even said "Probable" about 100000 times.

The investigation was a joke. The quotes from the report make it sound like a Seinfeld episode.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=donofriose;1112963]Because they probably did something wrong... The report even said "Probable" about 100000 times.

The investigation was a joke. The quotes from the report make it sound like a Seinfeld episode.[/quote]

Civil courts use the "preponderance of evidence" standard, which is "whether a particular fact is more probable than not probable".

Maryland courts define "more probable than not" as "whether a fact is more likely so, than not so" ... or (whether a fact is 51% or more likely to be true, than 49% or less not true".

... of course in civil cases, jurors thinks they have to decide a case beyond a reasonable doubt; and in criminal cases jurors tend to decide cases on their gut and the lesser preponderance of evidence standard.

no matter how many times or how many ways you tell a civil jury THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL CASE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE CONVINCED BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!!!!! .. THIS IS A CIVIL CASE, YOU ONLY HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER SOMETHING IS SLIGHTLY MORE TRUE THAN NOT TRUE!!!!!

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

These are texts.
From a private phone?
How does the NFL get a hold of your private information?

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

The Atlanta Falcons were punished draft pick(s) and big fine for piping in crowd noise. The Patriots should get a hefty fine and lose draft picks as well. Brady should get some kind of fine and/or suspension as well. IMO the ball deflation in an AFC Championship game is worse than pipping in crowd noise, because it directly effects the game.
Of course this happened (ball deflation) because Brady requested it. No lowly equipment manager would do this unless a player asked him to do it.

Re: All things off season 2015.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1112967]These are texts.
From a private phone?
How does the NFL get a hold of your private information?[/quote]

i subpoena cell phone records a lot and I have never seen the actual text messages. just whether a text message was incoming or outgoing.

ive had clients who can somehow go online and print out their texts (maybe only on certain phones/carriers)

perhaps mcnally and the other guy turned it over voluntarily .. before the Pats had time to see what was on there and scrub clean?

the text seem like the smoking gun to me. written contemporaneously at the time of act = truthful. this wasnt some guy who wanted to burn the pats and started sending out exploratory texts after the fact.

cant believe the Pats let that slip through the cracks.

lesson - all team employees and players must have a business provided and owned phone with the data property of the Pats exclusively.