Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Updated QBR rankings after week 14. Still solid.

RK PLAYER TOTAL QBR
1 Carson Palmer, ARI 83.6
2 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 78.1
3 Andy Dalton, CIN 73.1
4 Russell Wilson, SEA 72.5
5 Drew Brees, NO 70.2
6 Aaron Rodgers, GB 69.4
7 Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ 68.2
8 Tyrod Taylor, BUF 67.1
9 Tom Brady, NE 64.9
10 Cam Newton, CAR 64.9
11 Brian Hoyer, HOU 63.8
12 Marcus Mariota, TEN 63.1
13 Teddy Bridgewater, MIN 62.9
14 Eli Manning, NYG 62.4
15 Jameis Winston, TB 62.2
16 Jay Cutler, CHI 62
[B]17 Kirk Cousins, WSH 61.4[/B]
18 Alex Smith, KC 60.7
19 Philip Rivers, SD 59.5
20 Matt Ryan, ATL 58.9
21 Matt Hasselbeck, IND 56.3
22 Matthew Stafford, DET 55.8
23 Derek Carr, OAK 55.7
24 Josh McCown, CLE 53.9
25 Blake Bortles, JAX 49.8
26 Andrew Luck, IND 47.6
27 Colin Kaepernick, SF 47.1
28 Peyton Manning, DEN 45
29 Joe Flacco, BAL 40.9
30 Sam Bradford, PHI 38.3
31 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 34
32 Nick Foles, STL 30

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1132735]Did not see the game. Saw the stats and the win. Looks like another very good game by KC ... on the road.



He has definitely improved as the season has progressed. "Bad Kirk," the guy who threw multiple picks and lost composure, seems to have mostly gone away. His good games are really good and his bad games are not that terrible. He is certainly good enough to win playoff games with if he has a good team around him and a good game plan.



He is better than I gave him credit for at the beginning of the season.[/QUOTE]


Ahhhh...my new sig! Lol

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Notable that there's very little difference between 10th place and 20th place in the QBR rankings (which makes sense, it's a bell-curve based statistic).

Very safe to conclude that Kirk is an average NFL QB at this point in his career. Let's see what he does when all the chips are down over the next few weeks, then we'll have the big question in front of us: how much do we invest in an average QB with prime years remaining ahead of him?

Bengals got rewarded for investing in Andy Dalton...

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1132742]Notable that there's very little difference between 10th place and 20th place in the QBR rankings (which makes sense, it's a bell-curve based statistic).



Very safe to conclude that Kirk is an average NFL QB at this point in his career. Let's see what he does when all the chips are down over the next few weeks, then we'll have the big question in front of us: how much do we invest in an average QB with prime years remaining ahead of him?



Bengals got rewarded for investing in Andy Dalton...[/QUOTE]


All the chips have been down since the Giants game.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132744]All the chips have been down since the Giants game.[/quote]

Quite right. In the games since:

Giants Week 12: 67.0, 15th in NFL
Cowboys Week 13: 42.9, 20th in NFL
Bears Week 14: 88.4, 5th in NFL

That averages out to a little better than middle of the road.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1132740]Updated QBR rankings after week 14. Still solid.

RK PLAYER TOTAL QBR
1 Carson Palmer, ARI 83.6
2 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 78.1
3 Andy Dalton, CIN 73.1
4 Russell Wilson, SEA 72.5
5 Drew Brees, NO 70.2
6 Aaron Rodgers, GB 69.4
7 Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ 68.2
8 Tyrod Taylor, BUF 67.1
9 Tom Brady, NE 64.9
10 Cam Newton, CAR 64.9
11 Brian Hoyer, HOU 63.8
12 Marcus Mariota, TEN 63.1
13 Teddy Bridgewater, MIN 62.9
14 Eli Manning, NYG 62.4
15 Jameis Winston, TB 62.2
16 Jay Cutler, CHI 62
[B]17 Kirk Cousins, WSH 61.4[/B]
18 Alex Smith, KC 60.7
19 Philip Rivers, SD 59.5
20 Matt Ryan, ATL 58.9
21 Matt Hasselbeck, IND 56.3
22 Matthew Stafford, DET 55.8
23 Derek Carr, OAK 55.7
24 Josh McCown, CLE 53.9
25 Blake Bortles, JAX 49.8
26 Andrew Luck, IND 47.6
27 Colin Kaepernick, SF 47.1
28 Peyton Manning, DEN 45
29 Joe Flacco, BAL 40.9
30 Sam Bradford, PHI 38.3
31 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 34
32 Nick Foles, STL 30[/quote]

A lot stands out...first Brees still performing at a very high level. Second, 2 of the most underappreciated QB in the league over the last 10 years 1 and 2. 3, Mariota and Winston the Rooks are playing well. And lastly, the bullshit of Russell Wilson not being a great passer is over. Higher QBR than Brady and Rodgers. I've never understood the Wilson haters.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1132746]A lot stands out...first Brees still performing at a very high level. Second, 2 of the most underappreciated QB in the league over the last 10 years 1 and 2. 3, Mariota and Winston the Rooks are playing well. And lastly, the bullshit of Russell Wilson not being a great passer is over. Higher QBR than Brady and Rodgers. I've never understood the Wilson haters.[/quote]

So have you finally changed your opinion of Kirk?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1132747]So have you finally changed your opinion of Kirk?[/quote]

I still have questions, but I think his performances the second half of the season has shown obvious growth...not forcing the ball, going through progressions.

You know on the interception yesterday I rather him simply not see a guy with that throw than see the guy and force the throw. His worst throw was the jump ball...if that is intercepted, he woulda had 2 picks and probably woulda lost the game. Lotta folks on here, including myself would be in full bitch mode. I still have questions...

His Oline in pass protection have done a great job for him this year and his receivers...while limited...have made plays for him as well. One thing, and this is on Jay and McVay as well as Alfmo and the blocking...but the running game is still limited. Cousins really hasn't had that to lean on consistently.

I think you give him a limited contract...you don't break the bank. I don't see Cousins as a problem on this team.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Exactly my thoughts chico. He did not see that guy. Not that that is a good thing but it happens.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132750]Exactly my thoughts chico. He did not see that guy. Not that that is a good thing but it happens.[/quote]

I must say, as much as people knock Kirk for his INTs, I was very surprised he threw one yesterday. I feel he has done a good job with ball security against teams that are not New England or Carolina.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I think the other thing that has to be considered is he's doing this with a very mediocre running game. If you told me in August that Alfred Morris and Matt Jones would combine to rush for 78 yards per game and 3.5 yards per carry (yes, those stats are real), and Cousins would have a 60+ QBR, I'd have told you you're crazy.

Those rushing stats are abysmal. Yet he's still turning in a respectable QB performance.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Mediocre is probably being kind.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Not to sidetrack this, but what the heck is going on with the running game? I realize that Lauavo and Stiger going out hurt, but can it possibly be just that? It's amazing how much it has fallen off since the start of the season, with no real glimmer of significant improvement.

I was pretty thrilled with the last run from Jones -- 3rd and long and needed a 1st down to run out the game, and he beast-moded it (is that a term?). I suspect that I was not alone when I was nervous that the predicted run would net a yard or two, and that there'd be a long punt return. Jones really gutted that one out.

Back to Kirk, I think the guy has performed admirably under the circumstances. The run game has evaporated, our TEs keep going out hurt (thank goodness we've gotten as much Reed as we have this season), and his main deep threat has missed half of the season. He's certainly got my support, and I am really interested to see what we can build around him.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=calia;1132770]Not to sidetrack this, but what the heck is going on with the running game? I realize that Lauavo and Stiger going out hurt, but can it possibly be just that? It's amazing how much it has fallen off since the start of the season, with no real glimmer of significant improvement.

I was pretty thrilled with the last run from Jones -- 3rd and long and needed a 1st down to run out the game, and he beast-moded it (is that a term?). I suspect that I was not alone when I was nervous that the predicted run would net a yard or two, and that there'd be a long punt return. Jones really gutted that one out.

Back to Kirk, I think the guy has performed admirably under the circumstances. The run game has evaporated, our TEs keep going out hurt (thank goodness we've gotten as much Reed as we have this season), and his main deep threat has missed half of the season. He's certainly got my support, and I am really interested to see what we can build around him.[/quote]

I think yeah, that's pretty much it. Rib's snaps are a problem, the timing is often pretty rough. You see him snap it a half beat slow or a half beat fast, meaning the whole line looks like it's coming off the ball slowly.

I keep seeing us having to run off tackle, which is a sign that the interior isn't winning. Rib and Long aren't nimble enough in there to maintain leverage, they give up a lot of penetration. So we end up being pretty darn predictable in there.

And I think Steiger had a good eye for adjusting run blocking schemes given what he sees when the defense lines up.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1132740]Updated QBR rankings after week 14. Still solid.

RK PLAYER TOTAL QBR
1 Carson Palmer, ARI 83.6
2 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 78.1
3 Andy Dalton, CIN 73.1
4 Russell Wilson, SEA 72.5
5 Drew Brees, NO 70.2
6 Aaron Rodgers, GB 69.4
7 Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ 68.2
8 Tyrod Taylor, BUF 67.1
9 Tom Brady, NE 64.9
10 Cam Newton, CAR 64.9
11 Brian Hoyer, HOU 63.8
12 Marcus Mariota, TEN 63.1
13 Teddy Bridgewater, MIN 62.9
14 Eli Manning, NYG 62.4
15 Jameis Winston, TB 62.2
16 Jay Cutler, CHI 62
[B]17 Kirk Cousins, WSH 61.4[/B]
18 Alex Smith, KC 60.7
19 Philip Rivers, SD 59.5
20 Matt Ryan, ATL 58.9
21 Matt Hasselbeck, IND 56.3
22 Matthew Stafford, DET 55.8
23 Derek Carr, OAK 55.7
24 Josh McCown, CLE 53.9
25 Blake Bortles, JAX 49.8
26 Andrew Luck, IND 47.6
27 Colin Kaepernick, SF 47.1
28 Peyton Manning, DEN 45
29 Joe Flacco, BAL 40.9
30 Sam Bradford, PHI 38.3
31 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 34
32 Nick Foles, STL 30[/quote]

Never been a huge fan of QBR:

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/]ESPN’s QBR stat puts Tebow ahead of Rodgers | ProFootballTalk[/url]

QBR is "black box", nobody knows what's inside but everyone is expected to follow it.

I prefer Football Outsiders DVOA and DYAR.

Just personal preference though.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1132223]In my eyes Kirk has played decent, journeymen level QB. Maybe down the stretch he can finish hot and put together some strong performances.

I agree Griffin has more potential, actually Griff has shown proven ability. But I disagree that Griffin should have played.....not with Jay, a HC that cleary didnt want or believe in him. Imo Bruce's nepotism lead us to hire a HC that wasnt nearly as committed as he should've been to the development of what was at the time the franchises greatest talent and assest. Either way spilt milk.

I think there is a degree of desperate optimism with Kirk because at this point he's the only option and that causes many to be view him as better then he's shown.[/quote]

IMO you made some good points.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NYCskinfan82;1132813]IMO you made some good points.[/QUOTE]


You, 30 Gut, and Mr Griffin.....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132817]You, 30 Gut, and Mr Griffin.....[/quote]

Are all delusional

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1132820]Are all delusional[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1132806]Never been a huge fan of QBR:

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/]ESPN’s QBR stat puts Tebow ahead of Rodgers | ProFootballTalk[/url]

QBR is "black box", nobody knows what's inside but everyone is expected to follow it.

I prefer Football Outsiders DVOA and DYAR.

Just personal preference though.[/QUOTE]
Nobody follows it besides espn.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1132742]Very safe to conclude that Kirk is an average NFL QB at this point in his career. Let's see what he does when all the chips are down over the next few weeks, then we'll have the big question in front of us: how much do we invest in an average QB with prime years remaining ahead of him?

Bengals got rewarded for investing in Andy Dalton...[/quote]I'm not sure why some people bristle at Kirk being considered an average QB. I think you pay Kirk like an average journeyman QB.

RE: Dalton's was more proven at higher level of production when he signed his deal then Kirk is now.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1132820]Are all delusional[/QUOTE]



Lol, and agree..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=calia;1132770]Not to sidetrack this, but what the heck is going on with the running game? I realize that Lauavo and Stiger going out hurt, but can it possibly be just that? It's amazing how much it has fallen off since the start of the season, with no real glimmer of significant improvement.

I was pretty thrilled with the last run from Jones -- 3rd and long and needed a 1st down to run out the game, and he beast-moded it (is that a term?). I suspect that I was not alone when I was nervous that the predicted run would net a yard or two, and that there'd be a long punt return. Jones really gutted that one out.

Back to Kirk, I think the guy has performed admirably under the circumstances. The run game has evaporated, our TEs keep going out hurt (thank goodness we've gotten as much Reed as we have this season), and his main deep threat has missed half of the season. He's certainly got my support, and I am really interested to see what we can build around him.[/quote]

The Redskins have been forced to put offensive linemen in place of the injured tight ends in heavy run situations. This is an obvious run formation and is limiting the Skins run production. There is no threat of passing the ball in this formation. The Skins fake the jet sweep but I haven't seen them run it. Without the tight ends, they may need to run more out of the spread and use the jet sweep to Rodgers, Crowder or Jackson.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=MTK;1132242]Can't believe we're back on Griffin... wtf[/quote]



I don't get it either Matty. The hell is wrong with these people?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1132806]Never been a huge fan of QBR:

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/]ESPN’s QBR stat puts Tebow ahead of Rodgers | ProFootballTalk[/url]

QBR is "black box", nobody knows what's inside but everyone is expected to follow it.

I prefer Football Outsiders DVOA and DYAR.

Just personal preference though.[/quote]

Black box if you can't understand basic statistics and weighted averages. It's not that complicated.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1132806]Never been a huge fan of QBR:

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/]ESPN’s QBR stat puts Tebow ahead of Rodgers | ProFootballTalk[/url]

QBR is "black box", nobody knows what's inside but everyone is expected to follow it.

I prefer Football Outsiders DVOA and DYAR.

Just personal preference though.[/quote]

By the way bro, you just linked to a Mike Florio piece, he the shining beacon of statistical thinking.

You might as well have asked what Kim Kardashian thinks of the Syrian conflict.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1132838]I'm not sure why some people bristle at Kirk being considered an average QB. I think you pay Kirk like an average journeyman QB.

RE: Dalton's was more proven at higher level of production when he signed his deal then Kirk is now.[/quote]

I don't bristle at it. That's where he is right now. He's a middle of the pack starting QB. But you also seem to forget that he's really in his first year as a full time starter. And he also was not named the starter until late in pre season.

W/ KC there is still plenty of time and room for him to improve as long as management commits to him.

But you're basically calling him a "journeymen" type of QB. Matt Cassel is that type of QB, so is Brian Hoyer and Fitzpatrick. Those guys are never good enough to hold on to the job full time and end up with other teams. Right now that's not the case with KC.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1132854]By the way bro, you just linked to a Mike Florio piece, he the shining beacon of statistical thinking.

[B]You might as well have asked what Kim Kardashian thinks of the Syrian conflict.[/[/B]QUOTE]

If she is giving me a one on one synopsis I would be okay with that.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1132862][QUOTE=Schneed10;1132854]By the way bro, you just linked to a Mike Florio piece, he the shining beacon of statistical thinking.

[B]You might as well have asked what Kim Kardashian thinks of the Syrian conflict.[/[/B]QUOTE]

If she is giving me a one on one synopsis I would be okay with that.[/quote] the only thing you would pick up in a one on one with her, you would probably need a penicillin shot or something.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1132858]I don't bristle at it. That's where he is right now. He's a middle of the pack starting QB.[/quote]Agreed.

[quote]But you also seem to forget that he's really in his first year as a full time starter. And he also was not named the starter until late in pre season.[/quote]Nah, I realize this is his first year as a fulltime starter. But this is his 4th year in the NFL. And lets be honest, last year Jay handed him the reigns. For all intents and purposes he became the fulltime starter week 3 in 2014; but as you describe with those other journeyman he didn't hold the job.

[quote]W/ KC there is still plenty of time and room for him to improve as long as management commits to him. [/quote]Maybe. No one is saying he can't improve. Only commenting on what we've seen thus far, which is all I can judge.

[quote]But you're basically calling him a "journeymen" type of QB. Matt Cassel is that type of QB, so is Brian Hoyer and Fitzpatrick. Those guys are never good enough to hold on to the job full time and end up with other teams. Right now that's not the case with KC.[/quote]Whatever label you want to put on it is fine with me. His production thus far is his production and he should be paid accordingly. Neither here nor there I think Kirk is better then Hoyer and Cassell and about on par with Fitzy.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1132852]Black box if you can't understand basic statistics and weighted averages. It's not that complicated.[/quote]

There is a subjective "clutch" component to QBR. Subjectivity isn't statistics.

Somebody, somewhere decides how clutch a play is. Is a 60 yard TD pass in the first quarter less clutch than a 60 yard TD pass in the 4th quarter? Without the TD in the 1st, would the TD in the 4th be garbage time? NOBODY KNOWS!!!

Again, it's personal preference. I don't like it. I don't think it is the best metric to judge NFL QBs by.

If you can explain how the final number is achieved, I think you would be one of 4 people on the planet who could.

Gonna stick with Black Box.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1132854]By the way bro, you just linked to a Mike Florio piece, he the shining beacon of statistical thinking.

You might as well have asked what Kim Kardashian thinks of the Syrian conflict.[/quote]

Love the Kardashian reference. Can't get more Ad Hominem than that! Kudos.

The purpose of the link was to show the flawed QBR analysis based on the stats of the Packers and Broncos game.

I don't care for Florio either, but the box scores from the two games are solid.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/]ESPN’s QBR stat puts Tebow ahead of Rodgers | ProFootballTalk[/url]

If your comfortable with a metric that rates Tebow (4 of 10 passing for 79 yards) better than Rodgers (26 of 39 passing for 369 yards) in those two games, it's fine with me.

I used the stat line as an example of why I think QBR sucks.

Again, just personal preference.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400791580]Redskins vs. Bears - Box Score - December 13, 2015 - ESPN[/url]

Box score from our game with da bears. Take a look at cutler and cousins numbers...if you look at qbr, cousins lights up cutler. If you look at the individual box score, u will see the qb rating...cutler beats cousins 117 vs 104. Interesting...

Too me, I think cousins outplayed cutler just based on watching the game, but I don't think cutler played poorly.

Does qbr take into account of cousins rushing score?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Cutler made some throws that only a handful of QBs can make.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Good Cutler is an elite level passer. I was actually impressed with his ability to move around and extend plays against us. I wasn't expecting that to happen over and over, but it seemed like every time he scrambled to his right, someone would break to the middle of the field for an easy completion. It was frustrating to say the least.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1132872]Cutler made some throws that only a handful of QBs can make.[/QUOTE]


Like Cousins squeezing it into Reed in the endzone. That was a great throw.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1132873]Good Cutler is an elite level passer. I was actually impressed with his ability to move around and extend plays against us. I wasn't expecting that to happen over and over, but it seemed like every time he scrambled to his right, someone would break to the middle of the field for an easy completion. It was frustrating to say the least.[/quote]



While I won't pick on Jay dealing with the loss of his brother in-law ,I will say Jay Cutler is not "elite level"

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132874]Like Cousins squeezing it into Reed in the endzone. That was a great throw.[/quote]

Yes, indeed it was a great throw to Reed on the slant pattern.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Cutler had a good game and has had a good season.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132874]Like Cousins squeezing it into Reed in the endzone. That was a great throw.[/quote]

Look at cousins redzone stats

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/redzone-passing.htm]2015 Red Zone Passing Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Sort by clicking the category at the top......

By yards he is 14th ish.

Look at his TD to INT ratio.

Look at his completion percentage vs attempts

He is top 5 in attempts......

I am ok with that redzone performance going forward.

I am ok with how he plays in the 4th quarter.

There is lots worse than what we have at QB.