Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1185452]So we sign KC and then we somehow steal the Browns first two picks?

Or we trade to Cleveland and someway get 1 and 4 and then you go RB on both?

Dare I say, I have doubts....[/quote]

NO I was outlining what the browns plans should be.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1185453]I’d say Kirk is already set up pretty well $$ wise. He just banked $43 million the last two years.[/quote]

No Doubt- and i dont see him taking any charity or less money to play anywhere. People are tripping if they think that money isnt the primary and secondary motive for him. Hes already set himself up for live over those two years, time to set up his kids and grandkids with the next contract.
He just had a kid, so i guarantee you it is first and foremost and has been.

This PC stuff about Jesus told me to take the 1 year deal and money, and i want to win, and be part of making something great. Thats all well and good. Hes great at trying to protect his image and saying the right things.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;1185477]NO I was outlining what the browns plans should be.[/quote]

they should go Running Back at 1 and 4? Very Browns of them

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I think he's done in D.C.

At a certain point there's just too much bad stuff in the past here for Kirk. To paraphrase Robin Yount the lead singer of Cheap Trick Kirk wants to be wanted and I think that Gruden and Snyder have never really been sold on Kirk.

Back in 2015 it was enough that he just wasn't RG3, but it's clear the organization doesn't believe in him and why would Kirk want to play for a team that isn't set up to win and an organization that doesn't feel like he's a real franchise QB.

It is fascinating to see him flirt with the idea of playing with Browns though where he'd be following RG3 again.

I thought he was going to try to reunite with Kyle Shanahan in SF but the emergence of Garrarapolo has put an end to that.

March is going to be interesting.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

It's just my opinion, but it looks like Kirk's agent has really planted the seed that the key to this is patience because it's a win-win any way it goes. He either gets big money to stay here long term, or he gets big money on a 1 year tag, or he goes to free agency and gets big money from another team.

He's just paying us lip service when he talks about being with a winning team as the goal, because he's been here for 6 years and that's more than enough time to decide whether this team has a positive outlook for winning in the future.

I don't think he cares if he's tagged or not, because ultimately he is going to be a big financial winner and if it's not here he will have full control over his choice of suitors. I do think his agent has advised him that it's in his best interest to go to free agency, because then he has full control over his destination. But Kirk doesn't seem to care whether he stays here long term or goes somewhere else long term, only that wherever he does land will provide a good opportunity to him. He doesn't really seem obligated to stay with us.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

The Jets have a projected $80 million in salary-cap space for 2018 that will balloon to at least $100 million with expected cuts of veterans such as Muhammad Wilkerson and Matt Forte.

Cousins, 29, has been franchised the last two seasons by the Redskins after failing to reach a deal on a long-term contract. Washington franchised Cousins for the 2017 season with a price tag of $23.9 million. If a player is franchised a third consecutive year, that salary increases by 144 percent, based on the collective-bargaining agreement.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=irish;1185359]I know I'm in the minority but I find it refreshing to have a coach who will candidly answer question instead of just giving the usual BS non-answer answer. Its a cant win for these guys, when they answer honestly they are ripped for being honest and not giving a PC answer. When they give a BS non-answer they are ripped for giving what everyone knows is a non-answer. I like and appreciate that JG seems to be an open and honest coach.[/quote]

I see where you're coming from. But it's hard for me to believe that Gruden is not aware that the media is always in a "feeding frenzy" always looking for drama. Their like starving sharks they can never get enough. Have a little discretion. Take Kirk into your office and tell him exactly what's on your mind. But when you're talking to the media, know it's the media you're talking to and have some discretion.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Very thin line between being open and honest and maybe saying a little too much, Gruden often dances on that line

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1185526]Very thin line between being open and honest and maybe saying a little too much, Gruden often dances on that line[/quote]

Why shouldn't he dance on the line? Dude needs to hold his players accountable. He doesn't need to spoon them sugar all day long hoping when they go to sleep they feel better about themselves. Guess what Kirk? You played well at times. You also threw crucial picks that cost us the game sometimes.
You have developed into a serviceable qb. But you still haven't carried your team to win the big games when needed. Kirk got paid more money this year than any of us will see in our lifetime! Deal with the critique!
At this point I'm done with his Whining insecure posturing. He obviously does not want to be a Redskin, unless Dan Snyder pays him more than anybody with any sense would pay him.
Go to the browns and see how exciting life in Ohio is buddy.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1185466]I think Kirk is like that HS Girl that really doesn't know what she wants yet...[/quote]

More like he's the girl that's been in a serious relationship for a couple years but is needy, has her eye on other dudes...and is waiting for the right time to bolt. That's Kirk Cousins.

I've just moved on from the guy after that press conference. He wants his ass kissed and wants to be wanted. He wants his ego stroked. Probably just too much past history here w/ RG3, Snyder and Bruce. He's going to realize that if he leaves the grass isn't greener on the other side.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1185526]Very thin line between being open and honest and maybe saying a little too much, Gruden often dances on that line[/QUOTE

Gruden's never going to be Joe Gibbs around the media.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1185546]More like he's the girl that's been in a serious relationship for a couple years but is needy, has her eye on other dudes...and is waiting for the right time to bolt. That's Kirk Cousins.

I've just moved on from the guy after that press conference. He wants his ass kissed and wants to be wanted. He wants his ego stroked. Probably just too much past history here w/ RG3, Snyder and Bruce. He's going to realize that if he leaves the grass isn't [B]greener on the other side[/B].[/quote]

It hardly ever is.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;1185544]Why shouldn't he dance on the line? [B]Dude needs to hold his players accountable[/B]. He doesn't need to spoon them sugar all day long hoping when they go to sleep they feel better about themselves. Guess what Kirk? You played well at times. You also threw crucial picks that cost us the game sometimes.
You have developed into a serviceable qb. But you still haven't carried your team to win the big games when needed. Kirk got paid more money this year than any of us will see in our lifetime! Deal with the critique!
At this point I'm done with his Whining insecure posturing. He obviously does not want to be a Redskin, unless Dan Snyder pays him more than anybody with any sense would pay him.
Go to the browns and see how exciting life in Ohio is buddy.[/quote]

I think you hold players accountable in-house -- no need to do it through the media. It signals that you don't have enough of a relationship to deal with folks directly. You're all grown-ass men. Act like it.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1185548][QUOTE=MTK;1185526]Very thin line between being open and honest and maybe saying a little too much, Gruden often dances on that line[/QUOTE

Gruden's never going to be Joe Gibbs around the media.[/quote]

Gruden and Belichick are probably the best ones at handling the media.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I miss Coaches McKay (see my sig) and Mora (Playoffs!!??). Those were fun.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Whathappenedtorg3;1185491]I think he's done in D.C.

At a certain point there's just too much bad stuff in the past here for Kirk. To paraphrase [B][I]Robin Yount[/I][/B] the lead singer of Cheap Trick Kirk wants to be wanted and I think that Gruden and Snyder have never really been sold on Kirk.

Back in 2015 it was enough that he just wasn't RG3, but it's clear the organization doesn't believe in him and why would Kirk want to play for a team that isn't set up to win and an organization that doesn't feel like he's a real franchise QB.

It is fascinating to see him flirt with the idea of playing with Browns though where he'd be following RG3 again.

I thought he was going to try to reunite with Kyle Shanahan in SF but the emergence of Garrarapolo has put an end to that.

March is going to be interesting.[/quote]

LMAO,
[url]https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yountro01.shtml[/url]
Robin Zander is singer of Cheap Trick

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Can't wait to pretend I love Cousins and think he's the bees knees or he effing sucks and I know we're better off without his bum ass.

When the facts are, there is absolutely no way to know what the right decision is at earliest, some point into next season.

Lose him, use money to bring in some studs, and hit right on rookie = amazing. Don't hit = shit creek.

Sign him for tons and doesn't workout and he keeps losing to cowboys/giants/other big games = shit creek. Pay him and he keeps getting better = we'll have a chance to compete for SB down the road = amazing.

Such is the state of limbo.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;1185581]LMAO,

[url]https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yountro01.shtml[/url]

Robin Zander is singer of Cheap Trick[/QUOTE]



Robin Yount was a pretty good baseball player.


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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I can't wait until this shit is over

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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

If I'm Cousins I'm going to Jacksonville. Elite defense, great weather, no state income tax, and Fournette.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1185629]If I'm Cousins I'm going to Jacksonville. Elite defense, great weather, no state income tax, and Fournette.[/QUOTE]Yeah if we don't keep him I'd like to see him there

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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Cousins is not going to Jacksonville because they have no reason to overspend on a marginal QB. They don't look that desperate beating the Steelers to get to the conference finals.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1185674]Cousins is not going to Jacksonville because they have no reason to overspend on a [B]marginal QB[/B]. They don't look that desperate beating the Steelers to get to the conference finals.[/quote]

Lolol. They did just hang 45 on the Steelers, and Bortles did his part in that to win, so I def don't believe they'll be in the KC sweepstakes. But "marginal qb?" Delusional thinking right there buddy.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Watching the Vikings now. They would be deadly with Kirk as their QB. Same with Jacksonville earlier.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

OMG ... Can we stop putting Kirk on teams that don't need him! Why do these teams in the playoffs need to overpay for Kirk? It's going to be the Browns, Jets, Redskins, or Broncos... Maybe Buffalo. Hopefully, Bruce sees the Broncos outward salivation for Kirk and gets a first-round pick from them. That is the only way the Broncos get Kirk, Redskins can match any deal they try to sign him to at this point.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1185684]OMG ... Can we stop putting Kirk on teams that don't need him! Why do these teams in the playoffs need to overpay for Kirk? It's going to be the Browns, Jets, Redskins, or Broncos... Maybe Buffalo. Hopefully, Bruce sees the Broncos outward salivation for Kirk and gets a first-round pick from them. That is the only way the Broncos get Kirk, Redskins can match any deal they try to sign him to at this point.[/quote]

Bortles continues to not impress anyone. He looked like a game manager at best. His stats when his team dropped 45 on the Steelers.

TEAM LEADERS
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS
Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
B. Bortles 14 26 214 1

Case Keenum has a noodle arm compared to Kirk.

Either team could upgrade big time by signing Cousins.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Please explain to me how Kirk is elite? He is in a pass-happy offense, with some of the best QB coaches/ offensive minds in the league with the Redskins. NFL is a league favorable to the forward pass, thus every QB stats have gone up compared to years prior. He has a basic arm and is only ok at making his reads. Giants have proven that he can still be baited into a bad pass and bad games. He force-feeds balls to his favorite targets and can make his receivers disappear at times through his decision making. He deep ball is weak. I think many of you have been glamorized by the local media's love for him. He is okay and it will show when is on a different team with lesser coaches.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Kirk Cousins just tweeted "Save up to 50% in my store right now! #HailToTheFans SHOP NOW ➡️ http://bit.ly/2CTa6yT" I guess he's not coming back next season.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1185687]Please explain to me how Kirk is elite? He is in a pass-happy offense, with some of the best QB coaches/ offensive minds in the league with the Redskins. NFL is a league favorable to the forward pass, thus every QB stats have gone up compared to years prior. He has a basic arm and is only ok at making his reads. Giants have proven that he can still be baited into a bad pass and bad games. He force-feeds balls to his favorite targets and can make his receivers disappear at times through his decision making. He deep ball is weak. I think many of you have been glamorized by the local media's love for him. He is okay and it will show when is on a different team with lesser coaches.[/quote]

You and I are apparently seeing 2 different sets of games and QBs. Cousins hasn't made the throws he has, and done as well with no receivers, without a good deep ball. The reason you don't see as many successful deep balls in 2017 is Jackson and Garcon are gone. Put him on a good team, and he'll be back to breaking records like he broke franchise records here in 2015 and 2016 (mainly season completions and season yardage).

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1185687]Please explain to me how Kirk is elite? He is in a pass-happy offense, with some of the best QB coaches/ offensive minds in the league with the Redskins. NFL is a league favorable to the forward pass, thus every QB stats have gone up compared to years prior. He has a basic arm and is only ok at making his reads. Giants have proven that he can still be baited into a bad pass and bad games. He force-feeds balls to his favorite targets and can make his receivers disappear at times through his decision making. He deep ball is weak. I think many of you have been glamorized by the local media's love for him. He is okay and it will show when is on a different team with lesser coaches.[/quote]

Well, he passes the statistics test.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-numbers-dont-lie-kirk-cousins-is-elite/2018/01/12/bc9f04c8-f7c3-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.a1ae3e87e5c5[/url]

If you are gonna say he doesn't pass the W-L test, I will counterpoint and say 45 players are responsible for the W-L test, even the singularly most responsible 1 of the 45 is only accountable for so much. Let's put the number at 33%, because defense and special teams accounts for the other 2/3rds.

Besides, you give him a long term contract, yes he will have a top 5 contract when he receives it, but you fast forward a year and he will probably have a top 10 or top 15 contract at that point depending on how many qb's are reupping in the short term. At what point in the salary cap era has the going rate for qb's ever decreased year-to-year? The going rate for qb's 2 years ago was 20 million, now it's likely to be 27 million. We'd have him at a bargain today if we had been smart 2 years ago.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=mooby;1185693]Well, he passes the statistics test.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-numbers-dont-lie-kirk-cousins-is-elite/2018/01/12/bc9f04c8-f7c3-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.a1ae3e87e5c5[/url]

If you are gonna say he doesn't pass the W-L test, I will counterpoint and say 45 players are responsible for the W-L test, even the singularly most responsible 1 of the 45 is only accountable for so much. Let's put the number at 33%, because defense and special teams accounts for the other 2/3rds.

Besides, you give him a long term contract, yes he will have a top 5 contract when he receives it, but you fast forward a year and he will probably have a top 10 or top 15 contract at that point depending on how many qb's are reupping in the short term. At what point in the salary cap era has the going rate for qb's ever decreased year-to-year? The going rate for qb's 2 years ago was 20 million, now it's likely to be 27 million. We'd have him at a bargain today if we had been smart 2 years ago.[/quote]

Agree totally. Remember when not that long ago there was debate whether a long term deal at (edit:20 mil/year) was extravagant? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Season completions is a nothing stat. Jason Campbell had that stat before Kirk got it by throwing to his running back 7 out of 10 times. Yardage is a product of a great offensive scheme and being in that scheme for years.

Kirk cheated the offseason rules by training at Jon Gruden's camp. Similar offense concepts, that was smart, it made him better. That won't be available to him anymore. Kirk is a good between the 20's QB. Redzone he is marginal at best. Trust me... Josh Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Baker Mayfield will be just as good and in time better than Kirk under Gruden and co.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1185700]Season completions is a nothing stat. Jason Campbell had that stat before Kirk got it by throwing to his running back 7 out of 10 times. Yardage is a product of a great offensive scheme and being in that scheme for years.

Kirk cheated the offseason rules by training at Jon Gruden's camp. Similar offense concepts, that was smart, it made him better. That won't be available to him anymore. Kirk is a good between the 20's QB. Redzone he is marginal at best. Trust me... Josh Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Baker Mayfield will just as good and in time better than Kirk under Gruden and co.[/quote]

And yet the great offensive scheme failed this season. I'd agree to wait and see what happens next season. I think with anything less than an elite QB, and no upgrades at WR or our run game, it's going to be really ugly next season.

And if it was cheating, you know the league would have been all over us.

And I am more and more amazed how easily Redskin fans switch from rooting for to trashing the first franchise QB we have had in awhile. It's not his fault our idiot ownership couldn't get a good deal done.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Let me rephrase it as exploiting a "unique loophole". I refuse to put Kirk before the team regardless of who the leadership is. He is not worth the money it will take to keep him, knowing the many holes we have on the roster. It is best to admit the mistake or not signing him earlier and moving on.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Keenum & Bortles are playing championship games ...wow ! So does this change anything with Cousins? I see it this way You got 4 teams left QB'S are ..Foles,kennum,Bortles..and Brady. This Tells me for sure you don't have to have an ELITE QB to win playoff games..who would have thought Ryan,Big Ben,Brees sitting home watching Foles(by injury),Keenum,Bortles..WOW! I like Cousins and wish like heck we could have signed him way back when he could be had cheaper..But seems to me Defense ,overall play by Offense
WR,Running game .solid special teams may be more of factor than I thought..Do you guys believe That Brady could have led this team to playoffs? If not then i can't see how we make Cousins the HIGHEST paid Player in the League..its all about the money/cap thing.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I love cousins too. Watching these games though makes our lack of defense and a running back stand out.

Wow. These running backs are so good at strong cuts together.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1185749]I love cousins too. Watching these games though makes our lack of defense and a running back stand out.

Wow. These running backs are so good at strong cuts together.[/QUOTE]We haven't had a true good RB1 since CP. Morris was great one yr but that was the scheme. He was solid the rest

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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/15/drew-brees-makes-it-clear-he-isnt-going-anywhere/]Drew Brees makes it clear he isn’t going anywhere – ProFootballTalk[/url]

No surprise here but KC is officially the best QB on the market.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I think the teams remaining in the playoffs illustrate how important defense is. Vikings, Eagles, Patriots, Jaguars, all top notch defensive teams.

Eagles and Pats got there with top notch QBs AND strong defense. Vikings and Jags got there with journeyman level QBs and strong defense.

Thinking you can't build a defense if you sign Cousins is faulty thinking though. The Jags signed a few studs this year, but they drafted Dante Fowler, Jalen Ramsey, and Myles Jack to name a few.

And the Vikings #1 defense is almost entirely homegrown.

It comes back to the draft and coaching in the end. We need to land some very good defensive players in the draft and we need to continue developing our own. And yes, that's possible with Kirk getting paid top dollar.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1185774]I think the teams remaining in the playoffs illustrate how important defense is. Vikings, Eagles, Patriots, Jaguars, all top notch defensive teams.

Eagles and Pats got there with top notch QBs AND strong defense. Vikings and Jags got there with journeyman level QBs and strong defense.

Thinking you can't build a defense if you sign Cousins is faulty thinking though. The Jags signed a few studs this year, but they drafted Dante Fowler, Jalen Ramsey, and Myles Jack to name a few.

And the Vikings #1 defense is almost entirely homegrown.

It comes back to the draft and coaching in the end. We need to land some very good defensive players in the draft and we need to continue developing our own. And yes, that's possible with Kirk getting paid top dollar.[/quote]


Our picks are solid players but we def don't have anyone close to Ramsey or Smith / Jack on our D.