Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Yeah but rex has always been bad so it's time for beck to take this team over

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;848297]They can't even understand what a regression analysis is, much less t distributions, variance, and expected value.[/quote]

True but that can be said about any fan.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Giantone;848506]True but that can be said about any fan.[/quote]

Except for me. Knowing such things is needed for an econ major like myself(and I'm now associated with every other economics dude out their, including Ryan Fitzpatrick and Bill Belichick).:laughing-

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

I'm guessing a fair amount of football fans have taken a statistics course in college.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Mark Twain once said: "There are three kinds of lies....Lies, damned lies and statistics"

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;848632]Mark Twain once said: "There are three kinds of lies....Lies, damned lies and statistics"[/quote]

Then the are statistics used in the colloquial sense, which actually are data, and the "subject" of statistics. The "stats" on NFL.com are just data. Fans try to become n00b statisticians when they use said data to "prove" a point.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Bucket;848265]I'm already pumped for Sunday and want to see what Beck can do. He looked good in my eyes this game or did some things iv'e not seen from a QB in the Redskins for a while.[/quote]


Im under the impression that Mr. Delusional of the Century Mike Shanahan and heir still want rex grossman at the helm. Until he names Beck the starter, I'll bet he will still roll with rex, just to appease his ego, and to prove to everyone that he knew it all along.

God I hope this isnt the case.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;848663]Im under the impression that Mr. Delusional of the Century Mike Shanahan and heir still want rex grossman at the helm. Until he names Beck the starter, I'll bet he will still roll with rex, just to appease his ego, and to prove to everyone that he knew it all along.

God I hope this isnt the case.[/QUOTE]

I just want to quote this post for when Beck is named the starter. :)

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=diehard;848281]Anyway, Hightower is better than Torain.[/quote]

Truer words were never written...

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Mechanix544;848663]Im under the impression that Mr. Delusional of the Century Mike Shanahan and heir still want rex grossman at the helm. Until he names Beck the starter, I'll bet he will still roll with rex, just to appease his ego, and to prove to everyone that he knew it all along.

God I hope this isnt the case.[/quote]

Personally I think they wanted Beck in there from the start, but Rex simply had a better preseason so they had to give him the nod.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Mechanix544;848663]Im under the impression that Mr. Delusional of the Century Mike Shanahan and heir still want rex grossman at the helm. Until he names Beck the starter, I'll bet he will still roll with rex, just to appease his ego, and to prove to everyone that he knew it all along.

God I hope this isnt the case.[/quote]

I mean right now Beck is a bit of an unknown, and the limited experience he does have hasn't shown to be anything exemplary. Particularly for a guy who (how soon we forget) was a high 2nd round pick. Of course, at this moment he's being put on a pedestal because a) he's the backup and b) our starter is struggling.

What I'm getting at is Beck going into this season wasn't exactly in high demand. People weren't knocking down his door to bring him on board. So if you think all of this is about Shanahan's ego then Beck would probably satisfy it just as much

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848696]I mean right now Beck is a bit of an unknown, and the limited experience he does have hasn't shown to be anything exemplary. Particularly for a guy who (how soon we forget) was a high 2nd round pick. Of course, at this moment he's being put on a pedestal because a) he's the backup and b) our starter is struggling.

What I'm getting at is Beck going into this season wasn't exactly in high demand. People weren't knocking down his door to bring him on board. So if you think[B][U] all of this is about Shanahan's ego then Beck would probably satisfy it just as much[/U][/B][/quote]

Nice point, didnt think about it that way. You are very correct.

But doesn't it just seem like something Shanahan would think, but not necessarily say "well, Rex is going to stay the starter, regardless of what a bunch of fickle fans are screaming about." even though everyone and their brother know that Rex is singlehandedly hurting this franchise, he would rather roll with rex because that is "his" decision, rather than go with beck because fans are demanding it, even to the teams detriment? Or worse, because his son keeps telling, reassuring, or begging him to keep grossman as his starter because they are close? I hope I am wrong, but I still havent heard of a press conference come out of Redskins park as of yet, and it only takes about 45 minutes to "Go over the game tape" and see what there is to see. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

I don''t think Rex and Kyle are necessarily close, like say Kyle and Chris Simms are. And Kyle insisted we trade for Beck in the first place. Plus, he had his press conference and said a decision will be announced on Wednesday. You don't decide your starting QB after watching just 45 minutes of game tape. And finally, heaven help us when our coach (or any coach) makes a decision based on what the fans want

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=diehard;848281]Anyway, Hightower is better than Torain.[/quote]

I actually think they are both around the same in overall talent level, dependability and ceiling. They are both servicable running backs that could start for 7-10 teams in the league.

They both can be a starting running back, a featured back, just dont expect to be able to put a team on either of their backs week in and week out, because they just aren't that guy. They probably wont hurt you or lose the game for you, but they can at times take advantage of a situation and play very well, at times even special. But anyone that gets to this level of athletics should be able to do that to an extent, especially at the position of running back.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848722]I don''t think Rex and Kyle are necessarily close, like say Kyle and Chris Simms are. And Kyle insisted we trade for Beck in the first place. Plus, he had his press conference and said a decision will be announced on Wednesday. You don't decide your starting QB after watching just 45 minutes of game tape. And finally, heaven help us when our coach (or any coach) makes a decision based on what the fans want[/quote]

Not saying that is why the switch should be made, just that the switch shouldnt be shelved because its the consensus among most fans that it "should" occur. Just because fans dont run teams or coach on the sidelines every sunday does not mean they are wrong about every decision, be it personnel wise or game wise. Some times a change has to be made, period.

Defaulting to the vein of thinking that "because the masses want it, the reasoning or rationale is wrong, so I must do the opposite", is flawed. Not saying that everyone knows what is best for whomever or whatever, but sometimes, a change is needed so badly that even the layperson can see it. This is a completely different situation than what is happening with Denver and Tim Tebow. The fans there want Tebow to succeed so badly, so public opinion, the media as well as the fans are going to lambaste the head coach until he gives him a valid shot at doing just that. We are making a change not for the cult of John Beck, but to salvage an entire season, hoping to sneak into the playoffs. I doubt that anyone in DC is enamored with Beck, or that anyone in Denver thinks that their season is salvageable. What I do not doubt is that with the way John Beck came in and played yesterday, if he would have played from the beginning of the second quarter on, being just "efficient" and a capable "game manager", we are 4-1 right now, thinking about winning the division instead of being scared to death at the thought that Mike Shanahan will still trust Rex Grossman.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;848632]Mark Twain once said: "There are three kinds of lies....Lies, damned lies and statistics"[/quote]

Jimmy Johnson once said "How 'bout them Cowboys!?!?!"

I am saying the same these days.


[SIZE=5]"How 'bout them Cowboys!?!?!"[/SIZE] :httr:

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Hell Yea!!!! It made the loss a little better. I wanted to see the Giants go down but 1 out of 3 ant bad.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

I'm not sure it factors into the coach's decision on Wednesday, but apparently "several" players are backing Rex, stating that he should not be pulled for Beck. Santana Moss is one of them.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7115124/washington-redskins-make-call-qbrex-grossman-john-beck-wednesday]Washington Redskins to make call on QB, either Rex Grossman or John Beck, on Wednesday - ESPN[/url]

I'm not sure I agree. 11 turnovers in five games...I'm no statistician, but that doesn't sound good to me.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

They're backing a teammate who is the incumbent starter. That's what you'd want your players to do.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

I didnt get to watch any of the game but look what an olineman does to London Fletcher, Holy Crap!!! Did they do that to the skins all day?? And he goes after him again in the last second of the video, a loss is one thing but getting out hit is unacceptable!!!!
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF2YGXAf0g8&feature=related]Michael Vick Kicks Football At Washington Cheerleader - 10/16/11 - YouTube[/url]

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848722]I don''t think Rex and Kyle are necessarily close, like say Kyle and Chris Simms are. And Kyle insisted we trade for Beck in the first place. Plus, he had his press conference and said a decision will be announced on Wednesday. You don't decide your starting QB after watching just 45 minutes of game tape. And finally, heaven help us when our coach (or any coach) makes a decision based on what the fans want[/quote]

John Fox with Tim Tebow.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848748]They're backing a teammate who is the incumbent starter. That's what you'd want your players to do.[/quote]


I agree that you would want your players to do that, and they are...what a difference a couple years makes.

I wouldn't expect anyone to publicly call for Beck over Grossman, but I have to believe that there is a growing majority that is thinking that there should be a change.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Kyle Orton, for as well as he played in the preseason, was playing horribly during the regular season and was getting worse. And that is why Fox pulled him

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848767]Kyle Orton, for as well as he played in the preseason, was playing horribly during the regular season and was getting worse. [B]And that is why Fox pulled him[/B][/quote]

And apparently put him on the trading block, too? Wow. I agree with you, though. Kyle Orton is a slow boat to nowhere.

[url=http://bayarea.sbnation.com/oakland-raiders/2011/10/17/2494964/oakland-raiders-kyle-orton-denver-broncos]Raiders Interested In Kyle Orton? Broncos QB Might Be On Trading Block - SB Nation Bay Area[/url]

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Mattyk;848678]Personally I think they wanted Beck in there from the start, but Rex simply had a better preseason so they had to give him the nod.[/quote]

I think there is a little more to the story then what we are thinking. I think Beck is obviously the better scrambler and has a stronger arm, not as accurate in the deep ball but is able to throw farther.

Grossman on the other hand, although does not have a strong arm to throw the ball deep is more accurate on the short to intermediate. I think the biggie was that Grossman knows more of the offense then Beck and is able to change out of a play sent in to a more positive play the defense will give him. Beck just runs the play sent in most of the time and again I'm thinking its due to him not knowing the whole play book as well. Which is why I think Grossman got the nod.

If Beck starts I think he will do some things that will suprise us but I think he will do some things to make us scratch our heads. As in the Ealges game he was more mobile and ran for yardage, he showed he has a stronger arm, but he didn't change very many plays or have WR's who were going to locate the ball and then go after it. If the ball was not on the money the receiver didn't catch it. But there were a couple of passes that were not his fault either that were drops.

I'm not saying Grossman was not 100x better but I think the coaching staff had to pick the best of the two evils and stick with it. I really wish the team would have taken Andy Dalton but who would have we not drafted? Kerrigan or Jenkins? I know Jenkins is not effective right now but had he not gotten injured our defense would be a monster. and if it was Kerrigan we probably would not have the pass rush we have in Kerrigan and Orakpo that failed to get to Vick all day. (I think due to holding, but what do I know)

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Look. The guy threw 4 INTs. That makes 9 in the past FOUR games, 11 turnovers in the last 5 games overall and he should have at least 13-14 if not for some ridiculous Carlos Rogers-esque drops. Those that are arguing about who is responsible for what interception are missing the point, the bottom line. He is the field general, the signal caller, the top guy. He is the last person to touch the ball before it lands in a defenders hands, period. Why do we never hear about other teams quarterbacks and who is responsible for their interceptions? Probably because the rest of their play is up to snuff, at least to overlook a few missteps and chalk it up to a learning experience. If history is any indicator at ALL, this is not the case with rex grossman, period. This guy stays on the roster only because of the fact that we need bodies in case our other quarterback goes down in case of an injury. We have BARELY gotten by several talent challenged teams and eeked out our wins. This has to stop now.


The Washington Redskins have enough to contend with within their own conference, rather than having to fight out of every horrible situation that Rex Grossman puts them in every game. You can't go into a boxing match with handcuffs and a blindfold on, and that is what we are doing when we go into a game with Rex grossman behind center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack
Because it's a Redskins message board, not a Jaguars message board.
True, Im sure the Jaguar message board is blowing up about the way their ROOKIE quarterback has thrown 2 interceptions in 5 games. edit... (sorry, he's played 6)
__________________

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

^ Your right. Lets play Beck he should be the solution to all this.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Thanks for taking my Jaguars message board hypothetical literally.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=Mattyk;848678]Personally I think they wanted Beck in there from the start, but Rex simply had a better preseason so they had to give him the nod.[/quote]

For the most part at this point in time, I don't think the majority of fans that have become dissatisfied with Grossman look for Beck to be any kind of big time gunslinger like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. If he’s a game manager that makes good decisions with the football I’ll be happy because I think the Redskins defense is much improved this season.

If you have a good defense and a game managing type of QB it will keep you in games and give you a chance to win. We know what Grossman is all about, but it’s the unknown about Beck that gives us hope at this point. Choosing either of the two going forward is a tough decision, but one that has to be made.

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848814]Thanks for taking my Jaguars message board hypothetical literally.[/quote]

I wasn't taking it literally, just having a bit of fun......
I knew u just threw a teams name out there for your point
:)

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

you know, arguing for the sake of arguing?

Re: The Gameday Thread: Philly at Washington
 

Great job, I could not agree with you more,,,I would rather see Beck make the mistakes then watch Rex make the same mistakes he has always made. [quote=Mechanix544;848802]Look. The guy threw 4 INTs. That makes 9 in the past FOUR games, 11 turnovers in the last 5 games overall and he should have at least 13-14 if not for some ridiculous Carlos Rogers-esque drops. Those that are arguing about who is responsible for what interception are missing the point, the bottom line. He is the field general, the signal caller, the top guy. He is the last person to touch the ball before it lands in a defenders hands, period. Why do we never hear about other teams quarterbacks and who is responsible for their interceptions? Probably because the rest of their play is up to snuff, at least to overlook a few missteps and chalk it up to a learning experience. If history is any indicator at ALL, this is not the case with rex grossman, period. This guy stays on the roster only because of the fact that we need bodies in case our other quarterback goes down in case of an injury. We have BARELY gotten by several talent challenged teams and eeked out our wins. This has to stop now.


The Washington Redskins have enough to contend with within their own conference, rather than having to fight out of every horrible situation that Rex Grossman puts them in every game. You can't go into a boxing match with handcuffs and a blindfold on, and that is what we are doing when we go into a game with Rex grossman behind center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack
Because it's a Redskins message board, not a Jaguars message board.
True, Im sure the Jaguar message board is blowing up about the way their ROOKIE quarterback has thrown 2 interceptions in 5 games. edit... (sorry, he's played 6)
__________________[/quote]