Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;948693]I doubt it is but even you have to admit that it creates an undue burden given the insufficient time to educate voters, especially young voters. All these laws wouldn't be as much of an issue if Republicans hadn't enacted/tightened these laws so close to the election. It's quite obvious to any rational person what Republicans care about most is helping Romney win and not helping voters vote or protecting the sanctity voting.[/quote]I haven't done any research to know when the voter ID laws were put in place, but with the time our legislative/legal system take to work things through it would impact an election at some point. Like to PA injunction for this election, I wouldn't have a problem holding off on the NH law until after this election.

Turzai comment = agree, dumbass.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Mitt come out swinging hard

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[quote=hooskins;948712]Haha wow. You aren't "that naive" but naive enough to use your own generalizations and paranoia, which again there are no facts to substantiate, to come to conclusions? Brilliant. Curse and use talking points when quantitative facts are presented.

My point, from my previous post, is proven.[/quote]

You haven't proven anything other than that you can post links.

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[quote=Chico23231;948726]Mitt come out swinging hard[/quote]It all starts with the power tie. I expected a royal blue or light blue from Romney.....glad to see the power tie and Romney swinging. Win or lose, go down making your case forcefully to the American people.

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[quote=hooskins;948686]These facts are too real to counter? Come on folks, give me some legit retorts.[/quote]The too poor or no access to get to DMV....c'mon man. Anyone who wants to vote and is truly in that situation could simply call the local Dem or GOP office and someone would make a beeline to help them register.

ACORN voter fraud was documented and extensive.

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html]More Acorn Voter Fraud Comes to Light - WSJ.com[/url]

Other examples:

[url=http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA635.html]Victims of Voter Fraud: Poor and Disadvantaged are Most Likely to Have Their Vote Stolen[/url]

Voter fraud certainly does exist.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Most entertaining debate I can remember . I bet Obama and Romney are going out drinking together after the debate :)

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/545688_536055979754043_2129392834_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Nobody's talking about the debate yet?

To me, Obama fell flat tonight. So much so it was almost a little painful for me. I'm hoping he'll go in for the kill next debate because boy, was that rough.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;948750]Nobody's talking about the debate yet?

To me, Obama fell flat tonight. So much so it was almost a little painful for me. I'm hoping he'll go in for the kill next debate because boy, was that rough.[/quote]As far as facts go, they were both full of it, as usual. Just on pure style I was expecting Obama to win easily, and early on it he was winning. But it didn't last long, and Romney won most of the debate and going away.

I'm trying to be balanced on the substance, below. It helps that on most things like Obamacare vs. Romneycare, neither side is particularly appealing.

Obama should quit trying to strawman Romney on imaginary positions, and keep hammering him on the principles that Romney actually shares with W. Bush which he did. And point out more clearly the economy has improved over time on his watch, even if he hasn't had the dramatic recovery that Clinton and Reagan could point to when they ran for re-election.

Romney should quit saying he's going to repeal whole programs of Obama's then say only change parts of them, and hammer Obama on the lack of recovery in four years, which he did. And point out clearly his success in his previous office and his own plans, which he did in as much detail as other presidential candidates including Senator Obama has done.

I don't expect every debate to be like this, but if they were, Romney would win the election handily.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/247725_10151237367830990_851294382_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;948407]You Jr need to get you facts straight,1) I'm no liberal 2) read....

[url=http://www.realromneyrecord.com/cases/gst-steel]The Real Romney Record: GST Steel[/url][/quote]

Did you honestly claim to not be a liberal and then send me to Priorities USA Action? Gotta admit, thats pretty funny right there.

For a real accounting of it, try reading this. It hits both sides. From the Washington Post Fact Checker. The Washington Post is a left leaning publication as it is. See, im sending you someplace that isnt a massive right wing site that only lies in the conservitives favor such as the place you sent me, known as a left wing site that blatantly lies about the liberal causes.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romney-and-bain-capital-the-obama-campaigns-newest-ad/2012/05/14/gIQAxCP3PU_blog.html]Romney and Bain Capital: the Obama campaign’s newest ad - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;948750]Nobody's talking about the debate yet?

To me, Obama fell flat tonight. So much so it was almost a little painful for me. I'm hoping he'll go in for the kill next debate because boy, was that rough.[/quote]

It seemed like Obama was not that interested in being there. Debates are more about selling yourself over your ideas, people tend to get lost in all the numbers and issues that both candidates usually bring up. I was a bit surprised about his demeanor.

Romneys problem is he needs to, for lack of a better way of explaining it, appear more human. Not exactly sure if he accomplished that as much as he needed but his demeanor seemed better than Obama's.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;948763]It seemed like Obama was not that interested in being there. Debates are more about selling yourself over your ideas, people tend to get lost in all the numbers and issues that both candidates usually bring up. I was a bit surprised about his demeanor.

Romneys problem is he needs to, for lack of a better way of explaining it, appear more human. Not exactly sure if he accomplished that as much as he needed but his demeanor seemed better than Obama's.[/QUOTE]

Agree with all this.

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Well its not going to get any easier for the president because now he has to deal with this video coming to the surface:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlxkcewBEe0]Key & Peele: Obama - The College Years - YouTube[/ame]

Obama needs to come hard in the next debate. He had his ass handed to him tonight.

If this continues through the next 2 debates I know which candidate I will be voting for.

I personally didn't care for Obama coming out and saying "I had 5 seconds until you interrupted me". Just go on like each candidate did for the majority of the entire debate. No reason to come across as an Ass.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Skinzman;948760]Did you honestly claim to not be a liberal and then send me to Priorities USA Action? Gotta admit, thats pretty funny right there.

For a real accounting of it, try reading this. It hits both sides. From the Washington Post Fact Checker. The Washington Post is a left leaning publication as it is. See, im sending you someplace that isnt a massive right wing site that only lies in the conservitives favor such as the place you sent me, known as a left wing site that blatantly lies about the liberal causes.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romney-and-bain-capital-the-obama-campaigns-newest-ad/2012/05/14/gIQAxCP3PU_blog.html"]Romney and Bain Capital: the Obama campaign’s newest ad - The Washington Post[/URL][/quote]


First Jr you're kinda late to the party and I know a whle bunch of us don't want to re hash what was said "again" ...months ago,and yes I'm not a liberal ...go back,way back .

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[quote=DynamiteRave;948750]Nobody's talking about the debate yet?

To me, Obama fell flat tonight. So much so it was almost a little painful for me. I'm hoping he'll go in for the kill next debate because boy, was that rough.[/quote]


Yes he did,got to admit it...he did a piss poor job.Yet there is just something slimey about Romney ,like a used car salesman.

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[quote=Gtothearry;948770]Obama needs to come hard in the next debate. He had his ass handed to him tonight.

If this continues through the next 2 debates I know which candidate I will be voting for.

I personally didn't care for Obama coming out and saying "I had 5 seconds until you interrupted me". Just go on like each candidate did for the majority of the entire debate. No reason to come across as an Ass.[/quote]


Don't think he did,he was playing by the rules of the debate,next time cut off Romney and say hell with the rules.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;948754]As far as facts go, they were both full of it, as usual. Just on pure style I was expecting Obama to win easily, and early on it he was winning. But it didn't last long, and Romney won most of the debate and going away.

I'm trying to be balanced on the substance, below. It helps that on most things like Obamacare vs. Romneycare, neither side is particularly appealing.

Obama should quit trying to strawman Romney on imaginary positions, and keep hammering him on the principles that Romney actually shares with W. Bush which he did. And point out more clearly the economy has improved over time on his watch, even if he hasn't had the dramatic recovery that Clinton and Reagan could point to when they ran for re-election.

Romney should quit saying he's going to repeal whole programs of Obama's then say only change parts of them, and hammer Obama on the lack of recovery in four years, which he did. And point out clearly his success in his previous office and his own plans, which he did in as much detail as other presidential candidates including Senator Obama has done.

I don't expect every debate to be like this, but if they were, Romney would win the election handily.[/quote]



I agree with you,I was mad at the education segment of the debate ,Romney say Mass has the best schools...nope....
[url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/galleries/2012/05/20/top-20-high-schools-northeast-photos.html#slide_0]Newsweek's Top 20 High Schools: Northeast - Newsweek and The Daily Beast[/url]

only one high school in the top 20 of the northeast and that's out on the Cape.

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Mitt 1 Obama 0

It wasnt even close, Obama didnt look prepared. Al Sharpton and Rachel Madow were so mad on MSNBC after the debate, it was hilarious. I woulda loved to see a Smackdown thread on that debate last night. Obama better tighten his belt and bring it next time.

Bad news is all the pressure is now on Biden for next week, which is never good.

[QUOTE=Giantone;948776]Don't think he did,he was playing by the rules of the debate,next time cut off Romney and say hell with the rules.[/QUOTE]

Obama spoke for 4 minutes longer then Romney did without saying much. So, I can't say Obama played by the so called rules.

From the past presidential debates I've grown to expect interjections considering it is a debate after all. If a candidate isn't able to counter effectively with extra speaking time then it sounds like "blah,blah,blah".

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

President Obama was off last night. No other way to put it. Romney won, Obama lost.

Two more debates to go and a jobs report tomorrow.

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[quote=Skinzman;948673]Kind of funny you say that.

Going back to the Bush/Gore election. In Fla. one of the cases brought to the Fla supreme court was whether people in the military would be allowed to vote from out of state. There is a problem with some countries not using postmarks. Fla law says that out of state votes had to be "Postmarked" before a certain date. Even though the dates were written on the envelopes when they were received, and they were received well in advance, the dems still went after those votes claiming them to be illegal votes, due to no postmark. They knew those votes were legitimate but tried to suppress them anyways... and actually won the case (Overturned later).

So you want to claim that people have died for this country and then complain about normal peoples votes being suppressed. How about you douches trying to kill the votes of the ones who are actually willing to die to give you that right. For some reason, that wont bother you if a vote for a republican is not allowed.

The massively hypocritical part is that all the libs in Fla were carrying around signs that said "Every Vote Must Count". Yet when it was announced that every vote would not count (You know, those people who were willing to die to give you certain freedoms), libs were waving those signs in the victory dance.

Stop using the military and them dying for your rights as your reasoning for you being allowed to vote then claiming they dont deserve the right to vote as well.[/quote]


Sorry, you're way off the mark. I won't address most of your post, but I will say this -- when I say people died, I wasn't referring to military. Where in the hell did you get that? I'm talking about pre-civil rights activists and those who fought for the right to vote in the 50s and 60s.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;948782]Mitt 1 Obama 0

It wasnt even close, Obama didnt look prepared. Al Sharpton and Rachel Madow were so mad on MSNBC after the debate, it was hilarious. I woulda loved to see a Smackdown thread on that debate last night. Obama better tighten his belt and bring it next time.

Bad news is all the pressure is now on Biden for next week, which is never good.[/quote]You called it pre-debate, well done. This was far better than I could've even scripted it. Great job to MR gettin' it done....Romney style.

Ryan will do the same to Biden next week.

Obama came off almost like John Kerry. A bit too wordy and long winded.

He needs to keep stuff short and sweet. Don't be defensive be offensive. Also call Mittens out on being inconsistent and changing his policies. Repeat 47%, I like firing and etch a sketch numerous times.

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I too thought Romney "won" but to me if I were a Democrat I'd be more concerned about how over-the-top the commentary was on how bad Obama did. I mean certainly neither guy last night convinced someone to change their vote. Perhaps Romney attracted a few undecideds but he can easily lose those in the coming debates too. But the consistent hand-wringing only magnifies Obama's performance which should just be left as basically irrelevant.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Obama was in prevent defense all night. Mitt kept marching down the field.

When I saw the Ragin Cagin James Carvelle speak last spring, he already said the Dem werent taking the election then serious enough and his fear was the attitude could drag into november. Well if last night wasnt a wake up call...

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;948777]I agree with you,I was mad at the education segment of the debate ,Romney say Mass has the best schools...nope....
[URL="http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/galleries/2012/05/20/top-20-high-schools-northeast-photos.html#slide_0"]Newsweek's Top 20 High Schools: Northeast - Newsweek and The Daily Beast[/URL]

only one high school in the top 20 of the northeast and that's out on the Cape.[/quote]

He was talking about education in general not school by school.

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/state-education-rankings-_n_894528.html]State Education Rankings: The Best And Worst For Math And Science[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;948782]Mitt 1 Obama 0

It wasnt even close, Obama didnt look prepared. Al Sharpton and Rachel Madow were so mad on MSNBC after the debate, it was hilarious. I woulda loved to see a Smackdown thread on that debate last night. Obama better tighten his belt and bring it next time.

Bad news is all the pressure is now on Biden for next week, which is never good.[/quote]


Biden should do great. LMAO


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlvqqNG4hr8]Joe Biden: Middle Class "Buried The Last FOUR Years" (Under Obama) - YouTube[/ame]

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[quote=Giantone;948777]I agree with you,I was mad at the education segment of the debate ,Romney say Mass has the best schools...nope....
[url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/galleries/2012/05/20/top-20-high-schools-northeast-photos.html#slide_0]Newsweek's Top 20 High Schools: Northeast - Newsweek and The Daily Beast[/url]

only one high school in the top 20 of the northeast and that's out on the Cape.[/quote]odds are good that Romney was talking about a survey that's more accurate than anything you could pull out of your *** as usual. but you didn't consider that did you?

edit: and I see firstdown found an example above. thanks fd.

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I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;948786]President Obama was off last night. No other way to put it. Romney won, Obama lost.

Two more debates to go and a jobs report tomorrow.[/quote]

Being fiery doesn't win elections, making the voters feel you care about them and their lives does. Obama left one too many unused trump-cards at the table though I think Obama did a good job explaining his policies and positions vs Romney's.

There are 3 more quarters left in the game and the deck is still hot.

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Watched the whole thing. I lean towards Romney but am not enamored of him for a lot of reasons. Personally, I find Obama unappealling and dislike his administration, Holder in particular. What they do with the law and the manner in which they treat the Constitution disturbs me (Not that I was of fan of GWB's selective use of the Constitution either). With that said, I voted for Obama last time. First democrat for whom I have ever voted.

With that said, nothing that happened last night struck me as game changing. Sure, Romney came out well but nothing that's going to change anything. I don't even think they framed the stark, underlying philosophical differences between them very well (i.e. - what is the role of gov?; How do you balance the interests/rights of the individual against the interests/rights of the group? What rights do those in the minority have to frustrate the will of the majority?). They touched upon the edges and Romney probably strengthened his base. As others have said, maybe a few undecided went to Romney, but I can't imagine any Obama supporter switching b/c of last night.

At the same time, there was practically nothing on social issues and, for all his "reach across the aisle" talk, Romney's "all the people" talk goes by the wayside on these issues. Sorry, I know too many people who would vote for Hitler if he supported their positions (whichever side it might be) on gay marriage and abortion. To my mind, Romney is on the losing side of these issues in terms of votes (i.e. regardless of how you feel as to the right and wrong of the underlying issue, more voters support Obama on these issues). On the economics, Romney just doesn't have the logical/rational imperative (i.e. his method is so clearly right that no reasonable person would disagree with it and Obama's is so clearly wrong no reasonable person would agree with it) to overcome the weight of the votes against him on the social issues.

Ultimately, I foresee myself casting a protest vote for the Libertarians this year. (I am a citizen of the Democratic Party sub-committee known as the State of Maryland so it really doesn't matter for whom I vote. The electoral votes are already in the bank).

Blech to it all.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

If Romney comes out and said something along the lines - States have the right to decide if their State should allow gay marriage or the laws regarding abortions, THAT would be a game changer in my mind but I could be wrong.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;948854]If Romney comes out and said something along the lines - States have the right to decide if their State should allow gay marriage or the laws regarding abortions, THAT would be a game changer in my mind but I could be wrong.[/quote]

He didn't say that in the debate but has said that in the past when asked about abortion. Gay marriage is currently a state issue with some passing laws for gay marriage and some states passing laws against.

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[quote=Daseal;948843]I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.[/quote]

Actually I think the moderator did a great job. He let them debate and he did not become part of the dabate. I've seen to many debates where the moderator actually becomes part of the debate and that's not their job. Some say he let them go over their time but how do you just cut someone off in the middle of statement. Obama did have 4min more time but that's not bad when your talking about a 90 min debate. Some on the left are blaming the moderator for OBama's poor performance which is BS.

All Ryan need to do is shut up and let Biden do all the talking. He will hang himself.

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I managed to yawn my way through most of it, wasn't impressed with either of them. I can see why they requested to keep the room so cold, they were both blowing hot air all night long. Mitt came off a little bitchy and defensive to me, Obama was too passive.

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[quote=Giantone;948264]I put it up there so your buudy could read it,it shoots down everything he says.[/quote]

I was talking about the Chinese Govt, not some random businessmen in Hong Kong. You never even touched on that so please do tell how you could of shot something down that you never even touched on.

[quote=Giantone;948774]First Jr you're kinda late to the party and I know a whle bunch of us don't want to re hash what was said "again" ...months ago,and yes I'm not a liberal ...go back,way back .[/quote]

I made a comment about China. You came back with a Bain comment. If you dont want to discuss Bain, then dont bring it up. More importantly, dont bring it up then claim that I did. But if you want to bring up Bain again, I will discuss it.

[quote=12thMan;948787]Sorry, you're way off the mark. I won't address most of your post, but I will say this -- when I say people died, I wasn't referring to military. Where in the hell did you get that? I'm talking about pre-civil rights activists and those who fought for the right to vote in the 50s and 60s.[/quote]

You talked about people dying for our freedoms. My mistake to assume a liberal would be talking about the people that actually died for our freedoms, the military. I dont even know why I ever expect a liberal to respect our military. I keep making that mistake over and over again.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Watching President Obama try to debate Romney is like watching Billy Cundiff try to kick from beyond 50 yards, or Reed Doughty try to cover Andre Johnson.

[IMG]http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/andre-johnson-reed-doughty-2010-9-19-19-40-9.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Skinzman;948888]I was talking about the Chinese Govt, not some random businessmen in Hong Kong. You never even touched on that so please do tell how you could of shot something down that you never even touched on.



I made a comment about China. You came back with a Bain comment. If you dont want to discuss Bain, then dont bring it up. More importantly, dont bring it up then claim that I did. But if you want to bring up Bain again, I will discuss it.



You talked about people dying for our freedoms. My mistake to assume a liberal would be talking about the people that actually died for our freedoms, the military. I dont even know why I ever expect a liberal to respect our military. I keep making that mistake over and over again.[/quote]

You seem to be carelessly reading and seeing what you want in my post. That, or you're being blatantly dishonest. The word "freedom" never appeared in my post and neither did the military's role in protecting said freedoms. In fact, you dragged the military into this. Not once did I make any inference to our men and women in uniform.

On top of your misguided response, you seem to equate being liberal with a disdain for our military. I'll just say this, we have liberals [I]and [/I]conservatives who are members of this forum that have served proudly in our nation's armed forces. Our politics may differ, but we're all patriots nonetheless.

But let me clarify my original post. From 1955-1968, particularly in the segregated south, many civil rights activists were martyred as they petitioned gov't to grant them voting rights. The Women's Suffrage Movement in the late 19th century and early 20th century, which culminated in 1920 with the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment;[I] "The United States Constitution prohibits any United States citizen to be denied the right to vote based on sex. It was ratified on August 18, 1920. [/I]"

So yes, I stand by my original post. Men and women have fought, suffered, and many have died for the right to vote in this country. I don't see what's controversial about that.