Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Giantone;1132875]While I won't pick on Jay dealing with the loss of his brother in-law ,I will say [B]Jay Cutler is not "elite level[/B]"[/quote]

I beg to differ. He is an Elite Level....asshole

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Hog1;1132885]I beg to differ. He is an Elite Level....asshole[/quote]

Name calling? Yet you wanna be taken seriously? Go home.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;1132885]I beg to differ. He is an Elite Level....asshole[/QUOTE]


LOL. Cant stand the guy. I think Asshole is too kind a word but hey....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1132872]Cutler made some throws that only a handful of QBs can make.[/quote]

Yes but he forgot to get the win, as usual.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Cutler was OK.
But Robbie Gould lost that game, not Jay.
And he is an asshole....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1132892]Yes but he forgot to get the win, as usual.[/QUOTE]
Well Said SIR!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[url]http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25415377/agents-take-what-will-kirk-cousins-next-contract-look-like[/url]



Good read.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1132870][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400791580]Redskins vs. Bears - Box Score - December 13, 2015 - ESPN[/url]

Box score from our game with da bears. Take a look at cutler and cousins numbers...if you look at qbr, cousins lights up cutler. If you look at the individual box score, u will see the qb rating...cutler beats cousins 117 vs 104. Interesting...

Too me, I think cousins outplayed cutler just based on watching the game, but I don't think cutler played poorly.

Does qbr take into account of cousins rushing score?[/quote]

The interception hurt Cousins QB rating, but at the end of the day we won so who cares about QB rating?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[SIZE="5"][B]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016[/B][/SIZE]

[U][B]14. [/B][/U]Kirk Cousins, Washington Redskins quarterback: Replacement level starting quarterbacks are worth plenty, and that appears to be Cousins' floor. At worst, he's a poor man's Andy Dalton with room to improve over time. He has more value to the Redskins than anyone else.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

^^ Yup. That pretty much sums it up.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1132901][SIZE="5"][B]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016[/B][/SIZE]

[U][B]14. [/B][/U]Kirk Cousins, Washington Redskins quarterback: Replacement level starting quarterbacks are worth plenty, and that appears to be Cousins' floor. At worst, he's a poor man's Andy Dalton with room to improve over time. He has more value to the Redskins than anyone else.[/quote]

You got this from this article?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000602379/article/top-20-unrestricted-free-agents-for-2016]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016 - NFL.com[/url]
You said in an earlier post that RGIII has more potential than KC. So why is RGIII not on this list? Hmmm?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1132904]You got this from this article?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000602379/article/top-20-unrestricted-free-agents-for-2016]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016 - NFL.com[/url]
You said in an earlier post that RGIII has more potential than KC. So why is RGIII not on this list? Hmmm?[/quote]

Sidebar...damn Id like to see Danny Trevathan ILB or Eric Berry SS in a Skins uniform next year.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1132904]You got this from this article?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000602379/article/top-20-unrestricted-free-agents-for-2016]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016 - NFL.com[/url]
You said in an earlier post that RGIII has more potential than KC. So why is RGIII not on this list? Hmmm?[/quote]I never understood why people ask questions they don't actually want answers to.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;1132904]You got this from this article?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000602379/article/top-20-unrestricted-free-agents-for-2016]Top 20 unrestricted free agents for 2016 - NFL.com[/url]
You said in an earlier post that RGIII has more potential than KC. So why is RGIII not on this list? Hmmm?[/QUOTE]
Technically Griffin is not an unrestricted free agent next year.

In fact he is the only qb we have under contract for next year.
Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1132908]Technically Griffin is not an unrestricted free agent next year.

In fact he is the only qb we have under contract for next year.
Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]

Do you think we will pay the $16,000,000 to keep him as our inactive 3rd string QB for next year?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

How NFL QB's are really judged:

[B][COLOR="Black"][B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]1. Wins![/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][/B]

2. All the other stuff.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1132906]Sidebar...damn Id like to see Danny Trevathan ILB or Eric Berry SS in a Skins uniform next year.[/quote]

There are some interesting FA possibilities. Muhammad Wilkerson is good.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1132913]There are some interesting FA possibilities. Muhammad Wilkerson is good.[/quote]

He is tremendous! He is also a perfect fit here; however, I think the Jets would Franchise Tag him before they let him get away to another team.

If either Wilkerson or Alex Mack should actually become a FA, I hope that SM will be on him like white on rice.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1132912]How NFL QB's are really judged:

[B][COLOR="Black"][B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]1. Wins![/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][/B]

2. All the other stuff.[/quote]

That's true but the general "Wins" stat can fluctuate for a ton of reasons.

Ron Jaworski will never live down his proclamation that Kaepernick would retire as one of the greatest QB's ever.

Medicore QB's or even average QB's can rack up a handful of wins in a short period of time based on the team around them but over the long term there are going to be better indicators of how good a QB is.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[I]There is a dry long article on cbssportsline.com this morning regarding what Kirk Cousins contract might look like next season. I've summarized it for you below:[/I]

"Kirk Cousins is taking advantage of head coach Jay Gruden's decision to play him over 2012 Offensive Rookie of the Year Robert Griffin III. He has demonstrated he can be an effective NFL starting quarterback, leading the league with a 69.2 completion percentage. On pace to throw for 4,069 yards, Cousins has a chance at setting the Washington Redskins' single-season passing yards record, owned by Jay Schroeder with 4,109 yards in 1986.

Cousins is in the final year of a four-year, $2,572,688 rookie contract paying him $660,000 this season. He will be getting a big raise with his next deal. How much, and whether it's with the Redskins, could hinge on Cousins' performance down the stretch and the team's finish to the season.

The QB Market

There really isn't a direct salary comparison for Kirk Cousins' situation. Eighteen quarterbacks are signed to deals averaging more than $15 million per year. All of these players had been starters longer than Cousins when they signed their deals.

Nick Foles is the next highest-paid quarterback with the two-year, $24.5 million contract extension (worth a maximum of $38 million through incentives) he received from the St. Louis Rams in the preseason containing $13.792 million in guarantees. There's also a mechanism for Foles to void the final year of deal with outstanding performance.

Negotiations with Washington

Cousins doesn't have any incentive to sign an extension before the offseason. There's a lot more to gain than lose by waiting because Cousins could be one of the rare ascending starting quarterbacks to hit open market in a league where capable signal callers usually don't become free agents. Six quarterbacks heading into a contract year signed extensions prior to the start of this season.

Quarterback is the ultimate leverage position in the NFL because teams would rather pay for mediocrity than start over with a high draft pick or another veteran that isn't a big upgrade. This general proposition will put Cousins in the driver's seat with Washington for negotiations to retain him provided he doesn't revert to his 2014 season form, which got him benched, during the last three games. It seems unlikely considering Cousins' growth as a quarterback this season.

It would not be a surprise if (Kirk's agent) McCartney sought a long-term deal comparable to the contract package of the average starting quarterback on a veteran deal. The two contracts which most closely approximate these figures belong to Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford. Smith signed a four-year, $68 million extension containing $45 million in guarantees, of which $30 million was fully guaranteed at signing, from the Kansas City Chiefs in 2014. Stafford received a three-year, $53 million extension from the Detroit Lions in 2013 with $41.5 million in guarantees. $33.5 million was fully guaranteed at signing.

The Redskins will likely be extremely hesitant about making such a significant multi-year commitment to Cousins because there isn't enough of a track record for them to feel comfortable unless the threat of interest from another team in free agency forces their hand.

A Nick Foles-type contract might have appeal to both sides if a longer-term deal can't be reached. It would give the Redskins at least one more year to evaluate whether Cousins is the long-term solution at quarterback. Cousins would get a two-year deal with an average yearly salary almost five times as much as his entire rookie contract, with the ability to make additional money depending on his and the team's performance.

Foles, who could be an offseason salary cap casualty despite $6 million of his $7.75 million 2016 salary being fully guaranteed without an offset, has $4.5 million of incentives in each of the three years of his contract. He gets $500,000 for at least 75 percent offensive playtime and the Rams winning 10 or more regular season games. It's $1.5 million instead of $500,000 with the same playing time and making the playoffs. The amount increases by $250,000 with a first-round bye and goes up $250,000 for each additional playoff win. A Super Bowl victory with the requisite playing time is worth $3.5 million instead. $750,000 is added to the total earned if Foles is in the top eight in the NFL in passing yards, passer rating or touchdown passes, or the Rams are in the top NFL's top 10 in points scored. There's a $250,000 Pro Bowl bonus as well.

A similar incentive package could be adopted for Cousins. Foles' 2017 contract year also voids under three conditions with written notice within 10 days after Super Bowl 51 (February 14 deadline). The conditions are at least 50 percent offensive playing time during the 2015 and 2016 regular seasons with the Rams making the playoffs both years, the same playing-time requirement with 19 or more regular season wins in the two seasons, or two Pro Bowl selections. McCartney might also want the voiding deadline to be in early March when free agency is approaching to eliminate the possibility of a franchise tag.

Cousins would reap the benefit of changes to the quarterback market in 2018 at the latest even if he didn't void the second year or earn incentives provided he continued to improve under the Foles approach. The Redskins wouldn't have any adverse long-term salary cap consequences by parting ways with Cousins if he regressed next year or in 2017.

The Franchise Tag Factor

There are more NFL teams than capable starting quarterbacks, which is why Cousins receiving a franchise tag isn't out of the question. Several things would need to occur to make it a realistic possibility. Cousins would need to perform like he did on the road in Chicago (or close to it) against the Cowboys and Eagles. This would probably result in the Redskins hosting a playoff game in the wild-card round, presumably versus the Seattle Seahawks, for winning the NFC East. Beating the two-time defending NFC Champions would be a tremendous upset. Under this scenario, owner Daniel Snyder wouldn't want to risk losing Cousins to free agency if the franchise's first playoff victory in a decade occurred with him under center.

The non-exclusive quarterback franchise tag should be $19.671 million with a $153.4 million 2016 salary cap, which is the high end of salary cap projections recently given to NFL teams. Cousins merely putting himself in a position where a franchise tag is a serious consideration would give him the leverage to force the Redskins into making a long-term commitment where his deal would approach top-tier quarterback money."

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1132911]Do you think we will pay the $16,000,000 to keep him as our inactive 3rd string QB for next year?[/quote]

I hope not, and don't expect us to, but my comment was really just saying why he wasn't on that list. I think he was an unrestricted FA a media report like that would put him right around Cousins for a couple of non-football reasons:

1) the controversy would generate links
- and -
2) his profile lends himself to being matched with supergenius coaches like CKelly

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1132915]That's true but the general "Wins" stat can fluctuate for a ton of reasons.

Ron Jaworski will never live down his proclamation that Kaepernick would retire as one of the greatest QB's ever.

Medicore QB's or even average QB's can rack up a handful of wins in a short period of time based on the team around them but over the long term there are going to be better indicators of how good a QB is.[/quote]

I get that but I also think that teams ultimately make their QB decisions based on whether or not they think they can win with the whole person. By that I mean the QB and the man.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1126250]Kirk Cousins is a 27 year old, 4th year pro who[B] throws more INT's than TD's.[/B]

Really not that complicated.[/quote]

Feel bad about this....don't you?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

this thread is doing that thing where clicking on the thread takes you back to the first page. It's like the web is saying I'm done with this thread.

Can we pleeeeaaaaaaaaasssseee close it.

I am sure another one can resurface at any time anyway.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1132926]this thread is doing that thing where clicking on the thread takes you back to the first page. It's like the web is saying I'm done with this thread.

Can we pleeeeaaaaaaaaasssseee close it.

I am sure another one can resurface at any time anyway.[/quote]

But I still don't know who Kirk Cousins is? LOL. Yeah this threads needs to go.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

First question I suppose would be how much does Kirk Cousins want to stay here?

Free Agency is a tricky thing. There is a good chance he may want to go out and test the waters and some crazy offer from a random team drops in his lap and he is gone just like that.

So on the otherside of the coin I am sure the front office has a "how much do we think he is actually worth vs. how much are willing to pay to get him to stay" number in mind.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132930]First question I suppose would be how much does Kirk Cousins want to stay here?





Free Agency is a tricky thing. There is a good chance he may want to go out and test the waters and some crazy offer from a random team drops in his lap and he is gone just like that.





So on the otherside of the coin I am sure the front office has a "how much do we think he is actually worth vs. how much are willing to pay to get him to stay" number in mind.[/QUOTE]



Worst case they will franchise him.. I don't see them letting him walk.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[img]http://media.mlive.com/grpress/sports_impact/photo/cousinswestendorpjpg-05226cf7894efda3.jpg[/img]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1132903]^^ Yup. That pretty much sums it up.[/QUOTE]


So he has not reached his ceiling or he has?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132943]So he has not reached his ceiling or he has?[/quote]

Jay Gruden says Kirk hasn't reached his ceiling:

“We’re still in the evaluation process, but I’m tickled to death to see how much he’s progressed,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said. “You can see his confidence just slowly become more of a factor for him in a good way. He’s still learning, man. He’s still fighting through some things. We’re still coaching the heck out of him, but I like where he’s going. I like what he’s about, what he represents as a player and as a person. Well go from there.”

I hope this thread goes on until the hatters cry "Uncle!" or until the end of time, whichever comes first.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Hog1;1132924]Feel bad about this....don't you?[/quote]

Its was obvious his opinion from the get go. It won't change. Aka agenda

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

From what I have seen of Cousins (stupid know-nothing fan observations of course) is that as far as throwing the ball, we have possibly seen Cousins about as good as he is going to get, (other than avoiding some of the more boneheaded throws if possible) but there are still things at the position he can improve on like recognition at the line of scrimmage, audibles at the line of scrimmage, basically the knowledge-experience end of the spectrum that requires more time playing the position.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132963]From what I have seen of Cousins (stupid know-nothing fan observations of course) is that as far as throwing the ball, we have possibly seen Cousins about as good as he is going to get, (other than avoiding some of the more boneheaded throws if possible) but there are still things at the position he can improve on like recognition at the line of scrimmage, audibles at the line of scrimmage, basically the knowledge-experience end of the spectrum that requires more time playing the position.[/QUOTE]


JR is that you?
What do you mean exactly by as good as he is going to get throwing the ball? All these other things you refer to him getting better at certainly will improve "throwing" the ball?? I remind you again to go back and look at Drew Brees when he was 30 games into his career. It was not good. He is not the only one who improved after such a short time but he is the big name.
Edit: I will say again that I do not necessarily think KC is going to be Drew Breese - I like using Breese as an example though because of the amazing turnaround his career took when he got players around him. Does that make him a "game manager who is not capable of carrying a team on his own"? No. It makes him a quarterback that got a chance to showcase his capabilities thanks to a TEAM around him.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

As a matter of fact here is a clip of SM talking to KC that will help you understand the process.

[url]http://youtu.be/bmDakhg45rk[/url]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1132942][img]http://media.mlive.com/grpress/sports_impact/photo/cousinswestendorpjpg-05226cf7894efda3.jpg[/img][/quote]

Those two look stupid in those photos. What a couple of maroons! :)

I'll be here all week, folks.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1132965]JR is that you?
What do you mean exactly by as good as he is going to get throwing the ball? All these other things you refer to him getting better at certainly will improve "throwing" the ball?? I remind you again to go back and look at Drew Brees when he was 30 games into his career. It was not good. He is not the only one who improved after such a short time but he is the big name.
Edit: I will say again that I do not necessarily think KC is going to be Drew Breese - I like using Breese as an example though because of the amazing turnaround his career took when he got players around him. Does that make him a "game manager who is not capable of carrying a team on his own"? No. It makes him a quarterback that got a chance to showcase his capabilities thanks to a TEAM around him.[/quote]

What I mean more specifically is physically. His physical abilities are what they are and we have seen enough to have a good idea of his capabilities.

I am assuming that QB's even if they start out rough and inefficient, from the get-go you see the physical gifts there. Andrew Luck for example has been a bit of a turnover machine but the physical tools are present and weren't something that were "coached up"

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1132970]What I mean more specifically is physically. His physical abilities are what they are and we have seen enough to have a good idea of his capabilities.



I am assuming that QB's even if they start out rough and inefficient, from the get-go you see the physical gifts there. Andrew Luck for example has been a bit of a turnover machine but the physical tools are present and weren't something that were "coached up"[/QUOTE]


So he can throw the ball further from a standing position? I guess if this were American gladiator id take more stock in a quarterbacks physical attributes. KC has proven he can take a hit. He moves well. He can throw the ball plenty far. Dont have to be too tremendously physically gifted to play quarterback. Just have to be able to .......play quarterback.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

KC's arm strength is not top-tier. It's not a "candy-ass" arm talent either. It is - like all things Kirk, somewhere in the middle. Certainly good enough to be an NFL starter.

Physically, in response to your earlier question, yes. Kirk has reached his ceiling.

As to the mental aspects of the game, he has improved his "floor" significantly in that we have not had a "Oh-Dear-God" game in quite since the Jets.

Has he reached his ceiling as to the mental aspects? I am willing to reconsider, but still think what we have seen since the Jets game is what he is - Solid starter but very scheme and personnel dependent. I just don't think any substantial growth beyond what we have seen is likely to occur.

Again, what have seen since the Jets game is solid starting QB who, with the right scheme and personnel, is a QB that could take a team deep into the play-offs and possibly win a SB w/out the need for a Ravenesque defense or Beast Mode back.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1132978]KC's arm strength is not top-tier. It's not a "candy-ass" arm talent either. It is - like all things Kirk, somewhere in the middle. Certainly good enough to be an NFL starter.

Physically, in response to your earlier question, yes. Kirk has reached his ceiling.

As to the mental aspects of the game, he has improved his "floor" significantly in that we have not had a "Oh-Dear-God" game in quite since the Jets.

Has he reached his ceiling as to the mental aspects? I am willing to reconsider, but still think what we have seen since the Jets game is what he is - Solid starter but very scheme and personnel dependent. I just don't think any substantial growth beyond what we have seen is likely to occur.

Again, what have seen since the Jets game is solid starting QB who, with the right scheme and personnel, is a QB that could take a team deep into the play-offs and possibly win a SB w/out the need for a Ravenesque defense or Beast Mode back.[/quote]

watching the Carolina vs Skins game, its painfully clear. Watching Cam throw and watching Cousins throw....Cam can make every throw and has amazing arm strength. Cousins...well....not so much

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

We should all know by now that you need more then arm strength to be a NFL QB. (RG3)

As long as Kirk can make all the throws (which he can), it shouldn't matter if he can throw it to the moon.

Also, most QB hit their ceiling in physical traits once the get to NFL. It's the mental aspect that sets the bar for an NFL QB. I would hope everyone on this board knows that